| Author | Message | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Intermediate Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 1809 Registered: 10-2001 |
ok i have a question , how cool would it be to buy that very car and show up at the next Cavallino or Ferrari meet  | ||
| Mark (Study)
Intermediate Member Username: Study Post Number: 1019 Registered: 10-2001 |
ENZOrati!  | ||
| Brian Kennedy (Kennedy)
Member Username: Kennedy Post Number: 603 Registered: 3-2002 |
I agree with Martin. I think they got spy shots of Ferrari testing a race version of the Enzo and then mistakenly attached it with this story. I'd wager that the Maserati mentioned has not yet hit the test track, as Todt stated, and further that the Maserati GT6000 will look like the three cars in the Maserati line. I wouldn't mind seeing some Maseratis mixing it up with the BMW M3s and the Audis. At least I'm hoping... might be wishful thinking on both our parts. And on the 4.2L engine, they detuned it for the Maseratis, intentionally leaving plenty of room to differentiate the new 360/420 from the Maseratis. Given a company doing that, I don't see Maserati having a racecar way faster than the Ferrari GT racers. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 6498 Registered: 5-2001 |
I believe it is an orginal Ferrari design. The block is what they use for the 360 replacement and possibly all subsequent 8s in the future. | ||
| Gary Brauch (Gary_brauch)
New member Username: Gary_brauch Post Number: 49 Registered: 10-2003 |
>>they improve the engine and will get an estimated 460HP<< Now you're talkin'! Did Ferrari design and build this engine? If so, I have no problem with the whole concept. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 6496 Registered: 5-2001 |
James, I still do not think so. No way would they be that stupid. They were ill advised when they brought Maserati back to the US and tried to push the cars on this market but they are very ill advised as to taking the Enzo and badging it Maserati. That is so wrong on so many levels. It has to be a different body or bring it in under Ferraris name if you want to race and spend all that money doing it, do it right. Tropheo is not going as good as they had hoped for is what I am hearing. Not many takers in Maserati sports cars. | ||
| John T (Tifosi_4)
New member Username: Tifosi_4 Post Number: 45 Registered: 10-2003 |
I just made a thread about this 2 days ago and it got moved in ''other Italian''. Anyway I agree with Martin with #1 ''1. Ferrari or even owner testing to enter an Enzo in a GT race (maybe Ferraris comeback to LeMans?)''. Imagine if its really a Maserati...its going to be cheaper, more powerfull and faster than the Enzo. I can't see that happening. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2947 Registered: 10-2002 |
Martin It's a Maser. http://www.italiaspeed.com/news_2003/news_2003_099maserati_sportscar.html | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 6495 Registered: 5-2001 |
not same HP, they improve the engine and will get an estimated 460HP ot of the engine which will have some modifications. | ||
| Gary Brauch (Gary_brauch)
New member Username: Gary_brauch Post Number: 48 Registered: 10-2003 |
>>The 360 will have Quattroporte 4.2L 400bhp motor<< That one's a little hard to figure out...same horsepower rating as current? | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 6493 Registered: 5-2001 |
okay guys lets analyse this a little more: The car has Scudi shields, The car has Ferrari nose badge This "mule" has sponsorship labels on the side. When was the last time you have seen a secret test mule which looks like a Enzo that was introduced a year earlier, or a test mule with sponsorship labels? What are they testing? If the glue holds at 160Mph on the Pirelli decall? This might be two things: 1. Ferrari or even owner testing to enter an Enzo in a GT race (maybe Ferraris comeback to LeMans?). 2. Ferrari testing a wing or components at speed (what better way than to slap it on their Factory Enzo). I think it is #1. | ||
| Mark Frost (Frostie)
New member Username: Frostie Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2002 |
If they are serious about winning then they are going to need as much track/development time as possible. Hence if the car is to be based on the Enzo chassis the sensible thing to do is to get an Enzo on track and start testing, which is effectively what they are doing. I would imagine the actually body shape etc of the Maserati car won't be seen until they have some meaningful numbers to work from. Mark | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Intermediate Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 1527 Registered: 3-2002 |
Is there any chance they're using the Enzo as a test mule for certain components? If so, I guess the term "mule" isn't really appropriate. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 2657 Registered: 10-2002 |
Well, maybe the "over the limit" waiting list has something to do with this: Would open Ferrari a door to play nice to the folks that didn't get their hands on a real Enzo. My feeling is, that if they really go this route, they're gonna make some exterior changes. And I bet some tuners will eventually offer the parts to retrofit the cars. And historians will have a field day sorting out what was a real Enzo and what a 'rebodied' one. Casino grande! | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Intermediate Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 1525 Registered: 3-2002 |
Maybe they'll badge it the "Volkserati"! | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Advanced Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 3515 Registered: 6-2001 |
The car pictured below doesnt look like it's based on the enzo, it looks like it IS th enzo! As Brian said,it has the shields and ferrari badge on the nose. Maybe autocar was way off base assuming that it is the maserati 6000GT? | ||
| Brian Kennedy (Kennedy)
Member Username: Kennedy Post Number: 601 Registered: 3-2002 |
> This gives Ferrari SPA a way to reenter sports car racing > without worrying about hurting the Ferrari name if it doesn't work. They already have a way to do that... as they did with 360 and 550... let the independents try first... make sure the racing orgs aren't going to legislate the Ferraris out... then create a factory racer. Working really well so far! And, worse, this move hurts the Ferrari name whether they win or lose... its not like everyone doesn't know its an Enzo... but now the exclusivity of the Enzo is compromised... as Andreas argued: > Kinda dillutes the original 399 cars value. Big time. If I am an Enzo owner, I am pi$$3d 0ff!! I am still hoping this is all just rumors... To that point, I'll just repeat what Martin said so well: > Correct me if I am wrong: > > This car shows Ferrari nose badges. > This car shows Ferrari shields. > > Where can you see a Marerati logo anywhere? > Why in Gods name would anyone be so stupid of creating a ENZO supercar > and then rebadging the same chassis and calling it their low end line? > Even the worst MBA would know that this is dead wrong! I totally agree... let's pray its just a rumor... or Ferrari re-thinks itself and changes course (and asserts it was all just a rumor). If I am an Enzo owner, I am lambasting Ferrari right now... hopefully all 399 plus the "over the limit" waiting list are all doing the same. | ||
| Ermin Trevisan (Trevi)
Member Username: Trevi Post Number: 345 Registered: 5-2003 |
kaz about the 360 engine: look at what i posted here http://www.ferrariforum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8413&highlight=#8413 trevi | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Advanced Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 2655 Registered: 10-2002 |
Somehow I see it coming: Maserati brings out the Enzo with Maser badges and a few weeks later you can order all the real Enzo badges on ebay to retrofit to Ferrari Enzo. Kinda dillutes the original 399 cars value. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Senior Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 6486 Registered: 5-2001 |
Correct me if I am wrong: This car shows Ferrari nose badges. This car shows Ferrari shields. Where can you see a Marerati logo anywhere? Why in Gods name would anyone be so stupid of creating a ENZO supercar and then rebadging the same chassis and calling it their low end line? Even the worst MBA would know that this is dead wrong! | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2944 Registered: 10-2002 |
James As with all Vintage cars the price varies a great deal depending on originality, providence, and history. Big history can add a lot of value. The car you're talking about (ex Bob Akin) is very well put together but not totally original (VERY few Lola's remain original) and it's history is IMHO not "Big". It can easily cost 200K to put one of these right so I think that is a fair price for that car. Lola's do very well and are invited to the "right" events so that helps their value. If this were an unmolested Donohue/Pensky car with history it would be worth more. | ||
| James Lee (Aventino)
Junior Member Username: Aventino Post Number: 147 Registered: 6-2003 |
Speaking of rebadging, I'd love them to rebadge the 575 as a 575GTO if it's going to be sold as a customer competition car. It looks like the 575 road car and it looks like it's going to be successful, perfect to keep the name going. James, I see the T70 from the front page of the Vintage Motorsport magazine is for sale for $390K USD. Is this good ball park for a T70? | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Advanced Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 2942 Registered: 10-2002 |
Brian This gives Ferrari SPA a way to reenter sports car racing without worrying about hurting the Ferrari name if it doesn't work. Enzo didn't worry about things like that, the new guy's do. | ||
| Mark (Study)
Intermediate Member Username: Study Post Number: 1018 Registered: 10-2001 |
Well since VW/Audi are sharing platforms, technology, and parts with Maserati now...and Maser is re-badging the ENZO as Maserati's flagship race car. Doesn't each win for Maserati look good for Audi? Their partner? I can't wait till someone bashes Lambo again since its owned by Audi. "oh its just a Audi" Looks like the ENZO is getting beefed up to help Audi/Lambo also...,whoops I mean bring publicity to Maserati/Audi's accomplihments in car building partnership. Non Ferrari fans won't see the fine lines. Just the big win of the 6000GT Maserati car is a 3 way partnership: -Ferrari contributes the engine, and race car -Audi contributes the 4-wheel drive system, Aluminum body material technology -Maserati contributes everything else. | ||
| Miguel Angel Mu�oz (Mam)
New member Username: Mam Post Number: 25 Registered: 10-2003 |
Masearti is not ferrari, the photo of Enzo with Maserati logo is a shame | ||
| Brian Kennedy (Kennedy)
Member Username: Kennedy Post Number: 600 Registered: 3-2002 |
I must say, I think the mixing up of the distinction between Ferrari and Maserati that they have created to date is a big mistake. And the availability of a Maserati-badged Enzo is an even bigger mistake. They could use the Maserati line to insulate the Ferrari brand from compromises... they could build a Maserati supercar and a Maserati SUV and be assured only the Maserati brand would be at risk, for example. They can even use lots of common parts without issue. But if they start making "sister" cars, like Buick, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Chevrolet... then they become synonymous and they might as well just use Ferrari on them all... the Maserati name becomes pointless. I would use Maserati as the luxury car line that leverages Ferrari performance parts; and Ferrari the sportscar line that leverages some Maserati luxury touches. That allows the consumer to see the value of the alliance, but keeps the distinction crisp. There is no need for a Maserati racecar, IMO. | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Intermediate Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 1808 Registered: 10-2001 |
Back then they needed to buld 200 cars to homologate the B group racers. | ||
| Vince (Manatee)
Member Username: Manatee Post Number: 455 Registered: 6-2002 |
How many street Porsche 959's were built? that might indicate how many cars are needed to meet homologation requirements. | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Intermediate Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 1807 Registered: 10-2001 |
Jean , Maserati needs to build a road car to homologate the race car. I dont know how many though ! | ||
| Jean Dupont (Cavallino)
Junior Member Username: Cavallino Post Number: 85 Registered: 8-2003 |
This Maserati 6000 GT would be a roadcar or only a Racecar or both ??? I don't understand why Ferrari don't make an Enzo GT ? | ||
| Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
Member Username: Kaz Post Number: 412 Registered: 11-2002 |
If I could get a Maser 6000GT for the price of a Lambo Murci, I certainly would do it. An Enzo is out of reach for most of us, not only price but actual numbers produced. Re: New 360...Last week US dealer service managers were at the factory. The 360 will have Quattroporte 4.2L 400bhp motor, or should I say vice versa...The Q will have the new 360 motor.. He also mentioned the new 4-seater but did not give me more details on it...will see him this week and try to find out more. | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Intermediate Member Username: Doody Post Number: 2018 Registered: 11-2001 |
geez, if all this is true, it sure sounds like they're merging the lines, doesn't it? a lower-end line (eg: toyota) for every day cars and whatnot and a higher-end line (eg: lexus) for the more expensive, less common stuff. lots of risk in that strategy. ferrari is "one of" to "the" most recognized brand/s on the planet. that didn't happen in two quarters. i hope they're not taking lightly the responsibility of futzing with decades of phenomenal brand management. on the other hand, it would be irresponsible to not leverage a ton of the shared functions between the two marquees, right? the trick is to strike the optimal balance. we'll see if they can do it. remember - we've seen a LOT of dumb rumors on the net and in magazines that turned out to not be true, so maybe this isn't for real. doody. | ||
| Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
Member Username: Kaz Post Number: 411 Registered: 11-2002 |
Its the shape of things to come. Also, according to Shelton, the 04 360 will have a Maser engine to improve reliability and provide easier service (ie belt changes). | ||
| Mark Langfield (Ferrari_co_uk)
Junior Member Username: Ferrari_co_uk Post Number: 114 Registered: 4-2003 |
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| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Intermediate Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 1806 Registered: 10-2001 |
Stupid.. I dont understand Ferrari..They say they dont want to GT race, then they develop a 575 GTC in a few months and then they use the Enzo to launch a Maser GT car.A Ferrari Enzo GT race car would be much more exciting .. | ||
| J R K (Kenyon)
Intermediate Member Username: Kenyon Post Number: 1008 Registered: 10-2002 |
Maserati "Enzo" GT Tests at Monza On the 1 - 3 July the prototype of the new Maserati GT racer was seen testing at Monza. As predicted it leans heavily on the Ferrari Enzo and, indeed, still carries that tipo's bodyshape although a different look will undoubtedly be necessary to give brand differentiation. The car is being readied for the FIA GT series in late 2004 and 2005 and is an attempt at putting some glamour into the Maserati name upon whose success so much of Ferrari's future depends. For 2004 Ferrari fortunes in GT racing will again rely upon the 550/575 tipo but thereafter the emphasis will switch to the Maserati. It will be run through customer teams and a number are thought to have already expressed interest.    | ||
| J R K (Kenyon)
Intermediate Member Username: Kenyon Post Number: 1007 Registered: 10-2002 |
The photograph here shows Maserati's GT sportscar seen testing recently. Based on the V12 Ferrari Enzo supercar, this prototype still outwardly retains the Enzo's bodywork, with revised engine covers, suspension and a large rear wing being the easily visible differences. Ferrari Sporting Director Jean Todt at Magny-Cours in April, while attending the second round of the Vodafone Maserati Trofeo, confirmed that a one-make series, run over seven rounds, represented the first step of Maserati�s return to competition and that the Trident marque�s GT competition programme was well advanced. "The GT car will test for the first time around the end of the year, with a view to making its race debut in the second half of the 2004 season". The GT car, expected to be named '6000GT' is based on Ferrari's Enzo, although it is unconfirmed what engine it will use. A limited number will be built for the road, the demand expected to be strong particularly after Ferrari had to turn away customers from the Enzo despite increasing the build run.   | ||
| J R K (Kenyon)
Intermediate Member Username: Kenyon Post Number: 1006 Registered: 10-2002 |
In the Autocar magazine this week theirs an article on the Enzo GT car that will run next year, but will be badge as Maserati ...... |