| Author | Message | ||
| Vincent (Vincent348)
Intermediate Member Username: Vincent348 Post Number: 1132 Registered: 4-2003 |
Sam, LOL! Vincent. | ||
| Stephen E. Schroeder (Seschroeder)
Junior Member Username: Seschroeder Post Number: 102 Registered: 4-2002 |
308 engines have also been known to the the engine driven (crankshaft)timing gear bearingS go bad causing A belt to slip. Results are about the same as breaking a belt. Something to be addressed when changing the belts. When I had the belts changed on my 82 308 GTSi Norwood's (in Dallas) found the bearings bad. Fairly expensive repair but still better than the valves and pistons getting together. | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 423 Registered: 2-2003 |
"Heaven forbid that Ferrari had utilized a reliable timing CHAIN like most automobile manufacturers had done for over 50 years before the 308 was built." Or use a better belt. The new timing belts on all Lotus Esprits (even the 4cyl) is good for 10-years or 100K miles whichever is first. Michael, in regards to your search. I looked for 9-months so maybe you can learn from my experience. Don't sweat the service issue to much. As long as it's been regularly maintained (oil changes, fluid changes, brakes, etc) and the major stuff has been done, even if not at prescribed intervals, then you'll be fine. You don't want something thas has been ignored, but don't be so anal that you pass on good cars. Decide on Color NOW and find what you want. Just budget accordingly into your purchase price if the car needs some service. And if you can DIY, you'll be ahead anyway. Also, ALL of them will need something. Many have never fuel lines, cooling lines, etc replaced. Even if they look "good" you may spring a leak soon after purchase. I'd almost venture to say find a car that needs a major, then have it done by someone you trust after you buy it. Then, you'll know it really has been done. | ||
| dave handa (Davehanda)
Intermediate Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 2193 Registered: 5-2001 |
I have been on the Ferrarlist for over three years and have heard of at least three people who had belts snap. Two Mondials, one 308. I believe in all cases they were beyond the prescribed years/mileage...in the case of one of the Mondials, WAY beyond, and the new owner was carefully driving it home (had the major service scheduled) and "snap" (insert expensive noises...). Bummer. | ||
| Dave (Dave)
Member Username: Dave Post Number: 660 Registered: 4-2001 |
It's just a belt people... whats the big deal with just changing it? | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1566 Registered: 5-2002 |
Heaven forbid that Ferrari had utilized a reliable timing CHAIN like most automobile manufacturers had done for over 50 years before the 308 was built. I understand Ferrari's theory about a timing belt having lower mass and therefore contributing to the "less mass equals higher reving" theory. But the Ferrari heritage came from race cars, and race cars are well maintained after every race, therefore they can easily get away with using the shorter lasting timing BELT system. But for their road cars being sold to the public, they should have gone with a timing chain which can sit for 30 years in a garage without any degradation. (But then your dealership service departments couldn't charge several thousand dollars a pop for "routine" service!) | ||
| Sam Germana (Sjmst)
Junior Member Username: Sjmst Post Number: 134 Registered: 7-2003 |
Yes, Vincent! | ||
| Sam Germana (Sjmst)
Junior Member Username: Sjmst Post Number: 133 Registered: 7-2003 |
More... READ THIS: Everyone who says change the belts every 5 years regardless of mileage is RIGHT. By going through the archives and after careful research, I have found that the Belts in our cars are susceptible to a design defect that causes spontaneous and unpredictable breakage. This is part of a systemic problem that is known as the �Thisllubsi� defect. It affects not only the belts but numerous other components in the car. Thisllubsi will cause your belts to break if not changed every 5 years. It will also re-write your computer programs in later models. Not only that, but it will scramble any CD�s that are even close to your car�s computers. It will recalibrate your refrigerator's coolness setting so all your ice cream goes melty. It will demagnetize the strips on all your credit cards, screw up the tracking on your television and use subspace field harmonics to scratch any CD's you try to play. It will give your ex-girlfriend your new phone number. It will mix Kool-aid into your fishtank. It will drink all your beer and leave its socks out on the coffee table when there's company coming over. It will put a dead kitten in the back pocket of your good suit pants and hide your car keys when you are late for work. Thisllubsi will make you fall in love with a penguin. It will give you nightmares about circus midgets. It will pour sugar in your gas tank and shave off both your eyebrows while dating your girlfriend behind your back and billing the dinner and hotel room to your Discover card. It moves your car randomly around parking lots so you can't find it. It will kick your dog. It will leave libidinous messages on your boss's voice mail� in your voice! It is insidious and subtle. It is dangerous and terrifying to behold. It is also a rather interesting shade of mauve. Thisllubsi will give you Dutch Elm disease. It will leave the toilet seat up. It will make a batch of Methanphedime in your bathtub and then leave bacon cooking on the stove while it goes out to chase gradeschoolers with your new snowblower. So, CHANGE THE BELTS early and change the Belts Often!!!! (with all due credit to the author of the �goodtimes� spoof) | ||
| Vincent (Vincent348)
Intermediate Member Username: Vincent348 Post Number: 1130 Registered: 4-2003 |
Sam, I would take it one step further and not even buy a Ferrari this truly insures that you will never have a problem. The best prevention is abstinence. Vincent. | ||
| Sam Germana (Sjmst)
Junior Member Username: Sjmst Post Number: 132 Registered: 7-2003 |
See Barney's post. I agree 100% since I think the "someone" who asked that question about anyone having first hand knowledge of belts breaking was me. Sure they could break. A new one could break too. The car can self accelerate and go through my garage wall. I could find WMD in the trunk. Anything CAN happen. That's why I have seen the light and now think that belts should be changed with each fill up. Also, since I have it on good authority that more Ferraris suffer damage from traffic accidents than broken belts, I am taking the extra precaution of never driving the car. Thus, this is "cheap insurance" against ever having the car damaged. Further, though I think we should all change belts with each fill up, I'll never have to change them since it will never need gas. Whew, I feel better. I'm now going to check out the Loch Ness Monster chat room. | ||
| Santini (Santini)
Junior Member Username: Santini Post Number: 63 Registered: 10-2003 |
But would you say Dave that the parts needed to keep the car driveable and on the road are available? | ||
| Dave (Dave)
Member Username: Dave Post Number: 657 Registered: 4-2001 |
Depends on the part. Still a bunch of some things, and others are long gone | ||
| Santini (Santini)
Junior Member Username: Santini Post Number: 62 Registered: 10-2003 |
While we're on the subject...how readily available are OEM parts for 308s? | ||
| Dave (Dave)
Member Username: Dave Post Number: 656 Registered: 4-2001 |
I have looked at a lot of cars that were owned by people that thought they could afford owning them... People that could't turn a wrench, and did not put aside the money that was required to have "normal" service done on these vehicles. There are more than a bunch of Ferraris out there that are over 20 years old and have yet to have the standard 30k service done. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Intermediate Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 1564 Registered: 5-2002 |
"but 5 year old belts " MUST" have them changed. as a ferrari owner its not worth the risk to break one and if its apparent to a potental buyer that essential services were put off and not done the car will be very hard to sell unless an idiot with money comes along." This is exactly the point that I made to the owner of a 79 308 that I have been corresponding with. He bought the car in 1998 and has never changed the belts himself. He also has NO records of any maintenance done to the belts at ANY time. So my point to him was: The belts could easily be 10, 15, or 20 years old OR EVEN MORE!!! My emphasis to him was that anybody who drives a 308 around with ancient timing belts is driving a ticking time bomb!!! At any second, WHAM, BANG, CRASH!!! And didn't James G. make mention of that fact that his Testarossa had a timing belt snap with only a few thousand miles on the car? Can't remember the thread but he might verify that it CAN happen with disasterous results ($$$). | ||
| Mitchell Le (Yelcab1)
Member Username: Yelcab1 Post Number: 736 Registered: 11-2001 |
Won't answer the question on whether or not to change the belts. Will answer the question of what it costs: 2 belts: $50 4 seals: $50 Valve cover gasket set: $75 Tube of hylomar: $5 Oil case: $30 Oil filter $10 air filter: $35 if you are being really complete, a set of tensioner bearings: $150 or thereabout Set or spark plugs: $20 maybe a couple valve shims: $20 So now we are talking about $400 of parts. DIY saves the labor cost, otherwise add another $1000. The sky is the limit if you want to change more stuff. The sky is the limit if you take it to a Ferrari dealer. | ||
| Santini (Santini)
Junior Member Username: Santini Post Number: 61 Registered: 10-2003 |
Barney-would you happen to know what that parts kit includes? | ||
| Russ Turner (Snj5)
Member Username: Snj5 Post Number: 666 Registered: 2-2003 |
Had a belt break on a Misubishi truck at 70,000 miles and NINE years of almost daily driving | ||
| Steven R. Rochlin (Enjoythemusic)
Member Username: Enjoythemusic Post Number: 920 Registered: 4-2002 |
Michael, You make a good point in that a proper service is MORE than just the belts. There are other parts to be taken into account. IMHO is it better to be safe than sorry. During the very recent (like last month) 60k service i specifically asked for MORE than the basics. Why take chances PLUS we are talking about cars that are approximately two DECADES old so it is better to replace anything that is suspect including (but not limited to) fuel lines, oil lines, gas filter, water pump rebuild, alternator rebuild, etc. As for the subject at hand, i heard of DEFECTIVE belt in a thread here. But do belts break often, obviously not since virtually no one has ever said it happened here on Fchat. Enjoy the Drive, Steven R. Rochlin | ||
| Santini (Santini)
Junior Member Username: Santini Post Number: 60 Registered: 10-2003 |
I had one break on a (domestic) economy car I had, several years ago, at ~60k miles. Bent every valve. I did all the repair work myself (except for the head) and learned my lesson the hard way. Guess I should've paid more attention to that slapping sound coming from the timing cover.  | ||
| Barney Guzzo (Trinacria)
Member Username: Trinacria Post Number: 525 Registered: 8-2002 |
I think the parts kit costs about $650. FWIW, some time ago on this site, someone posed a question regarding wheather anyone had FIRST hand knowledge of a belt breaking because they went over on the miles or too many years. If I remember correctly, NOT ONE person responded with a reasonable "yes". (My friend heard that so and so had a friend who's belt broke didn't count). It would be disaterous if it broke (I have seen a 65,000 mile timing belt break on a Talon TSI and the engine was destroyed) but I think the belts are probably stronger than most make them out to be. Insurance (NOT cheap) is all it amounts too. | ||
| Santini (Santini)
Junior Member Username: Santini Post Number: 59 Registered: 10-2003 |
Thanks for the replies. How much should a DIY'er (which I would consider myself) expect to pay for parts/materials to do the major themselves? | ||
| MICHAEL MORETT (Thecarreaper)
Junior Member Username: Thecarreaper Post Number: 52 Registered: 9-2003 |
i am not an expert but ill throw in my .02 , the belts are changed at 5 years or whatever miles ( you say 30k i wont argue as i dont know off hand) from reading the other timing belt posts its " THE" one thing that absolutely should not be put off. a car with few miles but 5 year old belts " MUST" have them changed. as a ferrari owner its not worth the risk to break one and if its apparent to a potental buyer that essential services were put off and not done the car will be very hard to sell unless an idiot with money comes along.for what the 308 family of cars are selling for its insurance on ones investment in the car to do the belts, tensioners seals( water pump?) when they are due. i am in the market for a 308 and i can tell you i am looking more at records than options or paint color. to get back to the point.... no i dont feel they are " weak" or " prone " to breaking prematurely. the tensioners are very very essential to a happy timing belt, beware a belt service that does not replace everything. just trying to help. | ||
| Sean F (Agracer)
Member Username: Agracer Post Number: 422 Registered: 2-2003 |
nope and nope. But everyone gets scared silly over the cost of a rebuild so they do it at 5yrs and 30K using the "cheap insurance" excuse. FNA says 5-years, a lot if independants I've talked with (including Peter Sweeny at forza.weblobby.com) say 10-years. If you can DIY it's not that bad of a job, nor expense if you buy from TRutlands or Ferrari UK. Going to a dealer and most shops will cost you $2k or more. | ||
| Santini (Santini)
Junior Member Username: Santini Post Number: 58 Registered: 10-2003 |
I understand the ramifications if they break but, are they really that fragile that they need to be changed every 30k miles? Are there better aftermarket belts available that last longer? |