| Author | Message | ||
| Patrick Roberts (Patrickr)
New member Username: Patrickr Post Number: 20 Registered: 4-2002 |
Peter, Congrats on the new Ferrari. Like many have said, practice is the only way to get it right. Of course, you shouldn't practice on your Ferrari... I have taught a number of people how to drive a stick by going to my local Avis, Thrifty, or whatever rental car company of your choice and renting a "beater" from them. With that car, you can drive the hell out of it and not worry about messing up your Ferrari. Good luck, the hardest part is taking off from a stop on an incline. To make matters worse, do it when there is a car behind you! You will get the hang of it...  Patrick | ||
| david schirmer (David)
Junior Member Username: David Post Number: 232 Registered: 2-2001 |
Peter, I like that heel toe suggestion, I'm going to try that. The Kennedy School of inclined starts is also a pretty good idea. In Seattle the toughest starts are the uphill ones in the rain. Too light and you burn clutch material, too heavy and you spin the tires on the wet pavement. I still can't get those right, and I don't want to practice. | ||
| Peter K. (Bubba)
New member Username: Bubba Post Number: 6 Registered: 5-2002 |
Thank you all for your tips and suggestions. I will keep practicing. Speaking of practicing, last night was an interesting experience. I was practicing on the incline street behind my apartment with my brother when a police van pulled up. Seeing a Ferrari that's sort of stuck in the middle of the road, the officers got curious. I told them I was just practicing because Ferrari ain't easy to drive. They agree because recently there has been quite a few high-profile supercar crashes in Hong Kong. A 360 Modena F1 was recently wrecked by a local singer and a Pagani Zonda was also wrecked during a test drive! The first Zonda to be wrecked before it was even bought! Anyway, they took my license and ID and ran it through their system to make sure there's no warrant on me. All the while the other officers were standing around admiring the car, asking various questions, and making comments. A few minutes later, they just told me nicely to be careful and left. Man, a Ferrari certainly commands lots of respect and attention, even when it's stalled in the middle of the road! | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2588 Registered: 2-2001 |
I never really had trouble with the uphill start thing, I learned in my jeep. My dad made me drive to the steepest close hill to my house, said stop. I started up no prob and never really thought about it again (I also have to start up hill everyday going to my dad's house as their is a light at the top of a steep hill, which of course is perpetually red). One thing I have noticed is the Ferrari takes a lot more touch to start on a steep hill than a "normal" car does. It's because of the lack of low end torque on the 8 cylinder cars, especially the 3 liters which really don't go anywhere until wound up. The ferrari has no power until like 2000rpm, my jeep on the other hand gets shifted at 2000rpm. So, the point of my rambling is that in order to successfully start up a steep hill you will have to ride the clutch a touch more than normal. You have to be quick and get the engine revving up because it will die down quick when the clutch starts going in. You don't have to tach it up to 5 grand, but it needs a little gas to get going. It sounds bad how I'm describing it, you'll find that point of rev and clutch engagement speed soon enough. It does wear it down significantly more than normal starts though, there is simply no avoiding that. | ||
| Brian Kennedy (Kennedy)
Junior Member Username: Kennedy Post Number: 81 Registered: 3-2002 |
"Do drills to learn new skills"... Find an empty parking lot... a flat one... count quickly as you go to engage the clutch to move forward as you normally do... repeat but try to do it a bit faster... and then a bit faster... and so on. No need to get lightning quick... just get the feel for doing it briskly. Once that feels good... find an empty parking lot with a gentle grade... not enough that you roll backwards very quickly (if at all)... but enough that you need to give it a bit more gas to keep it from stalling... repeat the drills above. Now, find an empty parking lot or road with a steep grade... don't stop on it yet... drive up it at a few miles per hour in 1st gear... put in clutch and let it coast to zero... with feet still on clutch and accelerator, give it a little gas and release the clutch... you are practicing the feel of starting the car up the hill, but WITHOUT the part of hurrying from brake to accelerator. Now repeat, but this time, let the car go to zero and then start backing up a bit before re-engaging the clutch... the goal here is not to be quick... the goal is to transition from rolling backward to going forward as smoothly as possible (no lurching, bogging, stalling, etc.)... you also want to do it in one motion (not in and out). Then repeat letting it roll back a little more. Now this is a bit abusive... but with some focused practice like this, you won't panic in the real situation and end up rolling into someone or stalling (both far worse than a little clutch wear). If the above doesn't have you feeling real comfortable, able to smoothly start, then you might want to try the "hold the car in place with the clutch trick"... don't do this for an extended period unless you want a new clutch... but it can be very enlightening. Maybe you should save that for your friend's Toyota. Finally, of course, practice putting it together... stop on the hill in the empty parking lot and start up the hill. At first don't worry about how far you back up... just try to start forward smoothly (no lurching). Then gradually speed the process, so you back up less and less... get a feel for how much back up you need in the empty parking lot... so when that truck seems awfully close, you'll know what to do. HTH. | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 264 Registered: 3-2002 |
From the Ferrari experts I have spoken with, the most common mistake, and cause of premature clutch burnout, is improper shifting. You don't want to shift your Ferrari like a regular car, feathering the transition between clutch and throttle, but rather a shift-release-throttle type of motion. I've always felt that starting on hills is just a product of familiarity and comfort. Definitely spend more time learning the feel of your transmission. Practice your starts in a parking lot if necessary. So what if it looks silly. You're in a Ferrari! | ||
| Ron Thomas (Ronsupercar)
New member Username: Ronsupercar Post Number: 33 Registered: 5-2002 |
When in doubt, peel out..... | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member Username: Peter Post Number: 1841 Registered: 12-2000 |
Its helped me sometimes to keep my right foot on the brake pedal and the gas (as if I would be doing the heel-and-toe process), as I let more of the clutch out, so do I roll my foot more off the brake and onto the gas. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1562 Registered: 12-2000 |
opps, drag stops really are tough. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 273 Registered: 12-2001 |
Rob, did you mean drag "starts" (not stops)? | ||
| Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member Username: Joechristmas Post Number: 287 Registered: 3-2001 |
Rather than use the handbrake and rev the engine up on a hill. Start to let the clutch out slowly until you see the rpms slightly drop. Then when you let off the brake the car will usually not move far. I drive extremely hilly roads everyday and my 308 holds fine on them. Then just give it a little gas. My rpms on a hill will never break the 1300 mark. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1561 Registered: 12-2000 |
Anytime your engine speed and driveline speed are different, then you will get clutch wear when the clutch is engaged. Imagine two different rotating masses that are traveling at different speeds and they get slammed together really quick. The more pressure and slippage it takes them to get in sync, the more you are wearing it. That's why drag stops are so tough... your driveline isn't rotating at all, but you rev the engine up to 5k rpms and "drop the clutch". Good for burnouts and quick starts, bad for clutch. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 271 Registered: 12-2001 |
I learned this priceless art on a FIAT (no frank, a real FIAT, not a faux one with Ferrari badges) 124 sport coupe in Pittsburgh, which is notoriously hilly. Never drove a mondial, but light or heavy, there is a release point for the clutch. On a flat, it would not be much of a problem, cause you don't need alot of revs to prevent the car from stalling or moving forward, but on hills its a different matter. You've got to give the accelerator a push, and by lifting off the footbrake, you will go backwards, unless you are quick off the clutch, which does take practice to do smoothly. The handbrake is one solution, as is slipping the clutch, which will toast it. Ferraris that i have driven tend not to respond well to a snapped clutch with revs, so easing the clutch out gently but continuously is good practice. You will just have to work on your timing, and practice your footwork on less hilly terrain in the meantime. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 674 Registered: 9-2001 |
yes, by not timing is right you are prematurely wearing the clutch, especially if you rev high and let the clutch out slowly | ||
| Peter Kuo (Bubba)
New member Username: Bubba Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2002 |
Thanks guys for all your input. I suppose I will just keep practicing until I get the timing right. Another question, is it very easy to wear out the clutch but not timing it right? | ||
| Ron Thomas (Ronsupercar)
New member Username: Ronsupercar Post Number: 29 Registered: 5-2002 |
Congrats on your new Ferrari. For the price it may cost to replace a tranny or clutch, I think you may be better off taking a short refresher class on driving a manual. It should pay off.. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1560 Registered: 12-2000 |
When I learned on a stick, I used the hand brake on hills, but as you get experience, you just learn to be quick and time it so you may only roll back an inch or so. Otherwise find the right RPM for normal (flat) starts. You don't want to rev too high, but you also don't want to stall it. Usually 1-2k RPM's. Also, I find sports cars are happiest on upshifts when getting them up into the RPM range. For normal driving I usually shift 5k or so. A little bit more advanced is matching revs on down shifts as not to stress the trans and unsettle the car. I just rev it really high befor each downshift. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 673 Registered: 9-2001 |
one thing you can do is stay off the hills until you get the "feel" of where the clutch disengages during driving on flat roads. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 672 Registered: 9-2001 |
sounds like you should practice some more on another car to get back into the swing of it. To me my mondial is no diff than any other stick shift. you can obviously over rev and let the clutch out real slow but you will need a clutchetomy pretty soon, stalling is not good either, the hand brakes are so fragile I would not use them either | ||
| Peter Kuo (Bubba)
New member Username: Bubba Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2002 |
I just got a Mondial QV about a couple of weeks ago. It's my very first Ferrari. I have been driving automatics for years and I think I am a pretty good driver. I have had some experience driving stick shifts a long time ago, but they were Japanese cars. But, the Ferrari is proving to be quite a challenge, especially climbing uphill from standstill. I either slip back quite a ways or the engine just dies or lurch forward roughly. I find it difficult to get the timing right. What is the best way to drive uphill from standstill without any of the above happening? Does using the handbrake help? Thanks! |