| Author |
Message |
martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
Member
Username: Mw360
Post Number: 407
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 9:40 pm: | |
I think it's going to be very difficult to get in at the ipo price.These allocations usually go to the heavy hitters and Joe Blow can't get in until the price is up on the open market.However if it is easy for anyone to get in on the ground floor then be cautious-that usually means the street doesn't like the deal or the offering price.Either way Joe Blow is usually screwed. |
Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Junior Member
Username: Jussumfastgi
Post Number: 65
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 12:13 pm: | |
I think they are only offering 10% of the company. No takover can be done with 10% |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member
Username: Caribe
Post Number: 311
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 11:57 am: | |
Ferrari might, after all, become American own just as it happened to Ducati back in 1997/98. How ironic, perhaps this is the chance Ford has been waiting for all along. |
Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Junior Member
Username: Jussumfastgi
Post Number: 59
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 11:18 am: | |
How many of us are going to buy a share just to have it in our collection of "Ferrari stuff" ;) |
Luigi Gatti (Luigi)
New member
Username: Luigi
Post Number: 44
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 5:02 am: | |
Ferrari is actually controled by Fiat and not directly by the Agnelli family (although Fiat is itself controled by IFIL which is the family holding company for the Agnellis), but is regarded as one of Gianni Agnelli's toys, along with Juventus, the soccer team that recently won the italian championship.If Agnelli decided to give the green light to the IPO it's only because of the 5 billion Euros of consolidated debt that they've just reported, with interest rates on an upward trend the interest expenses would reach a level that would put Fiat in a very critical position.
Agnelli though would never risk of loosing the control over Ferrari, so don't expect a high number of shares offered in the IPO (this will also drive the price higher). |
Richard Stephens (Dino2400)
Junior Member
Username: Dino2400
Post Number: 84
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 14, 2002 - 11:17 am: | |
Regarding Maserati: All I know is that if I had a spare $100k sitting around, the new coupe is about the only new car that would tempt me away from spending that money on a Daytona. I hope others are similarly impressed by this new Maserati and that the reliability is at least enough to keep enthusiasts happy. |
Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Junior Member
Username: Wsawyer
Post Number: 175
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 14, 2002 - 10:37 am: | |
Tenney:
You bring up an interesting point. Do you guys think that Maserati will be a success or a failure? I think this fits with this thread since it may affect the IPO. |
Tenney (Tenney)
Junior Member
Username: Tenney
Post Number: 133
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 14, 2002 - 10:34 am: | |
Ferrari IPO may be a decent opportunity as they have a fairly unique product line that is probably rarely cross-shopped. Similar to Harley-Davidson in this respect, I think.
Downside might be the Maserati factor, where history stands a fair chance of repeating itself, I'm afraid. There are many attractive alternatives in this category from a product/service/dealer perspective that may have the lion's share of the market opting for something other than Ruben's company car.
If the IPO were Ferrari-exclusive, it'd be more attractive, IMO. |
Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
New member
Username: Jussumfastgi
Post Number: 45
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 14, 2002 - 10:26 am: | |
Frank, ouch! |
TomD (Tifosi)
Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 706
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 14, 2002 - 9:01 am: | |
Frank
how is that diff then any other company?? |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 884
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 14, 2002 - 8:52 am: | |
I would be afraid to purchase Ferrari stock for fear that it would try to manipulate the price as they did the Austrian GP. |
Marcus Mayeux (Mmayeux73)
Junior Member
Username: Mmayeux73
Post Number: 171
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 14, 2002 - 8:10 am: | |
Here is a little news on this from Detroit.
<http://www.detroitnews.com/2002/autosinsider/0205/14/autos-489356.htm> |
Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Junior Member
Username: Tspringer
Post Number: 62
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2002 - 8:32 pm: | |
Fiat is a massivly diverse corporation. They have tons of businesses that have nothing to do with automobiles, much like GE does everything from finance to jet engines to refrigerators.
Fiat's automobile divisions have been losing bundles and hurting the overall company. Thus the rumors of a possible spinnoff of certain aspects of it.
A Ferrari IPO would be a horrible thing long term IMHO. Take away the subsidies from Fiat and the Italian Govt., throw in a profit minded board of directors and do you really believe the F1 team will continue with the expenses as it has? No more blank check racing program. |
Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Junior Member
Username: Manu
Post Number: 224
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2002 - 7:26 pm: | |
GM and Fiat have already agreed on a partnership - this occured some time ago, concerning platform sharing, and engine sharing + development costs etc..
The GM bosses were all looking forward to 456GTs until they were cordially told that Ferrari/Maserati were excluded from the deal.
Essentially, Ferrari is owned and controlled by the Agnelli (spelling?) Family.
Interestingly, Lamborghini are going to be building a 360 rival and a Porsche 911 rival too and potentially 4-door saloons. This competition is an opportunity for Maserati to expand its range of products.... |
Marv B (Mdb69)
New member
Username: Mdb69
Post Number: 23
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2002 - 6:42 pm: | |
The part of Fiat that GM is investing in isn't the same as the part of Fiat that Ferrari is i'm almost positive. |
Craig Hess (Crag)
New member
Username: Crag
Post Number: 46
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2002 - 6:37 pm: | |
What I heard was that Fiat is multi-billions in debt and that and IPO for Ferrari is a way to raise some cash, but I also heard that the Ferrari cash would not be enough to bail them out, and that GM is looking at buying Fiat. How would you feel about GM owning the controlling shares in Ferrari? Sounds like it would be great for the value of existing Ferrari's and would put Ferrari's future at risk. |
Kevin Johnson (Jammy)
New member
Username: Jammy
Post Number: 10
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2002 - 10:26 am: | |
It's Fiat that needs the cash and an IPO for Ferrari is one way of getting it. All this stuff about theme parks etc. smacks of road-testing stories for an IPO. The story I'd expected to hear is that they develop Maserati as their volume brand, the entry-level Ferrari. Car manufacturing is hugely sensitive to unit cost and volume, and since they have effectively capped both of these aspects, there is a limit to how profitable Ferrari can ever become. Porsche are going the volume route and it's saved them short term. Long term?
It's a different matter if Ferrari can monetarize their R&D another way eg. Maserati as a volume brand. They may believe the market won't buy this, since it is some way off happening. Hence Ferrari World Inc., capitalizing on one of the strongest brands in the world. My 2 cents.
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Marcus Mayeux (Mmayeux73)
Junior Member
Username: Mmayeux73
Post Number: 144
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2002 - 10:10 am: | |
Yea, I got my Automobile magazine yesterday and was reading that, that would great! |
Peter K. (Bubba)
New member
Username: Bubba
Post Number: 8
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, May 09, 2002 - 10:02 am: | |
If I remember correctly, Fiat owns 90% of Ferrari. So, they probably won't be float unless Fiat decides to spin them off. If Ferrari does get spun off, I will line up for a piece of the IPO. |
Kevin Marcus (Rumordude)
New member
Username: Rumordude
Post Number: 18
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 08, 2002 - 9:57 pm: | |
Automobile magazine (page 18) suggests ferrari wants to raise money in the public market to among other things - get this - grow it's merchandise offerings and maybe even open a hotel in las vegas? I think I need some of whatever they're smoking.
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