| Author |
Message |
Stephen Patterson (Srpatterson)
Junior Member
Username: Srpatterson
Post Number: 158
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 9:35 pm: | |
I was amazed when I got the 275 how nice it was to double clutch. The throttle is tucked in close to the brake, thus allowing for an easy "blip" of the throttle on the way down.
And, while some might think this technique is cool, in the older cars it is a necessary fact of life. Unless, of course, you like to try and jam the gears. |
Bill Sebestyen (Bill308)
Junior Member
Username: Bill308
Post Number: 227
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 8:39 pm: | |
I don't think heel and toeing is particularly useful for normal driving. IMHO, it does not save clutch wear. Any time you use the clutch, you are subjecting it to wear. Slippage is causes wear. There is no way around it.
Is is better to match engine rpm when down shifting, of course. If you are coming to a stop, do you down shift to a lower gear to save the brakes? I usually don't.
So why do it?
Well, it is fun on occasion.
If you happen to be in a competition environment, heel and toeing can save your brakes. It also allows you to get into a lower gear to more effectively throttle steer through the corner and to prepare to accelerate form that corner.
As for saving wear and tear on the clutch, this only works if you would have other wise just jammed it into a lower gear and let the synchros and clutch slippage match the gears.
|
Dave (Maranelloman)
Junior Member
Username: Maranelloman
Post Number: 165
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 8:10 pm: | |
I use it with every down shift. However, I rarely downshift to come to a stop--only when approaching a curve, getting on an onramp, etc. Remember, brake pads are A LOT less expensive than clutches--especially in Ferraris! |
Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Junior Member
Username: Jussumfastgi
Post Number: 72
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 6:22 pm: | |
That works OK, however the 5 - 10% of the time I mess it up is not worth the savings to me. Uberman I am not. ;) |
Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Junior Member
Username: Hardtop
Post Number: 145
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 6:01 pm: | |
Learn to shift without a clutch and you can really save it. Better be really good though or your tranny may not like it.
Dave |
Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Junior Member
Username: Jussumfastgi
Post Number: 69
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 2:05 pm: | |
Darko, I could not care less about the minimal syncros wear, I am trying to limit the jarring of the whole drive train.
Your method is better however, if not overly complicated. ;) |
Peter S�derlund /328 GTB -88 (Corsa)
Junior Member
Username: Corsa
Post Number: 185
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 1:10 pm: | |
If driven on the limit which all Ferraris should be, you will upset the cars balance and lose rear grip due to to much rear brake and load transfer to the front if you're not matching the revs when downshifting in the braking phase. A nice entertaining spin will occur...
Ciao
Peter |
Darko Miodrag (Knockedoutawd)
New member
Username: Knockedoutawd
Post Number: 1
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 12:55 pm: | |
Seems to me that a lot of folks here don't realize what the point of heel-toe really is...
The technique, along with rev-matching, is a part of double clutching. Matching your revs alone to the speed of the wheels doesn't do too much in the way of saving your syncros from working themselves out.
When you rev match, the clutch should be engaged and your gearbox should be in neutral. By doing this you are matching the speed of the engine, gears and layshaft to the speed of the wheels. This truly saves your syncros from doing any work, if done correctly.
When you match revs alone without double clutching, your syncros still have to match the speed of the gears and layshaft to the speed of the wheels... you are just taking engine speed out of the equation.
If you want to play like the big boys, do it properly and double clutch. |
Jack (Gilles27)
Member
Username: Gilles27
Post Number: 289
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 12:30 pm: | |
Andrew, the reason it's used in racing is because the transmissions don't have a synchro-mesh (like street cars have) to automatically match the gear speeds. In most road cars, the pedals are too far apart to heel-toe anyway. I guess I could see doing it in the Ferrari if I'm doing some more aggressive driving, but for around town, I just tend to "clutch and coast" at stops. |
Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Junior Member
Username: Jussumfastgi
Post Number: 62
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 11:35 am: | |
Yes, I watch the Tac and engage the clutch right before the proper RPM. This does reduce wear, not only on the clutch, but the whole car. |
Chris Young (Bimmerboy)
New member
Username: Bimmerboy
Post Number: 43
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 11:28 am: | |
How do you keep them matched on upshifts, wait for the RPMs to drop before enguaging the clutch? |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member
Username: Caribe
Post Number: 310
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 11:26 am: | |
Correct Mitchell, I try to keep revs matched on upshifts. IMHO a very healthy habit for your car's powertrain. |
Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Junior Member
Username: Jussumfastgi
Post Number: 58
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 11:17 am: | |
What I think he means is he tries to Rev match on upshifts, as do I. |
Chris Young (Bimmerboy)
New member
Username: Bimmerboy
Post Number: 42
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 11:16 am: | |
What? Why would you blip for an upshift? The rpm is supposed to fall, not go up. Your clutch will just be wearing more, because it has to drop from a higher RPM to get to the right speed. I don't see any reason for it unless you're taking a god-awful long time between shifts. |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member
Username: Caribe
Post Number: 309
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 11:09 am: | |
I try to use it all the time (downshifts I mean) as it is a way of prolonging you clutch, and IMHO, the entire powertrain since everything operates more smoothly. I also blip the throttle when upshifting for the same reason (keeping engine RPMs matched to wheels RPM when engaging clutch). |
Ken (Allyn)
Member
Username: Allyn
Post Number: 416
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 7:49 am: | |
I toe and heel only when driving aggressively. (My gas is hung from the top; brake and clutch on the floor so I had to learn it backwards. Is any other car backwards like mine?) |
RM Valher (Rmv)
New member
Username: Rmv
Post Number: 39
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 6:55 am: | |
Heal-toe is when you blip the throttle with your heal and brake with your toes (in reality the ball of your foot)at the same time whilst simultaneously downshifting (the left foot depressing the clutch). One is, in effect, operating all three pedals at once. The purpose is to bring the engine revs up for the lower gear that's about to be engaged. It sounds great, 'smooths' out the shift (as engine speed has been brought up to match road speed, thus reducing the 'jerk') and does (I think) reduce clutch wear. It is a racing technique. As you can probably tell, I do it (and love it) |
Andrew (Mrrou)
Member
Username: Mrrou
Post Number: 296
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 15, 2002 - 12:17 am: | |
tell me again what heel toeing is? i guess i knew less about ferrari's then i thought i did |
Jack (Gilles27)
Member
Username: Gilles27
Post Number: 288
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 14, 2002 - 11:41 pm: | |
How many of you use it with your every day driving? Is the clutch-saving potential really there, or is it more for the racey feeling? I know how to heel-toe, but the thrill went out of it long ago. |