| Author |
Message |
Mondial Man
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 09, 2001 - 8:32 am: | |
I can't even heel and toe smoothly; now I'm supposed to power shift?? Not me! But my friend does it in his Acura Integra no problem. I drive like an old lady except on rare occasions. My clutch now has about 30k miles on it and maybe I can get another 30? |
Paul Sloan
| | Posted on Monday, January 08, 2001 - 5:43 pm: | |
To avoid and solve any problems (including griding) with gearbox change oil to REDLINE 75/90w, it simply is the best synthetic oil made. My 308 gearbox temp runs 15 to 20 degrees cooler and car shifts like it just came out of factory (65k on it).
www.redlineoil.com
While your at it add two bottles of REDLINE waterwetter to antifreeze and forget about overheating problems. |
Bret M
| | Posted on Monday, January 08, 2001 - 5:19 pm: | |
I haven't ever had trouble powershifting my friends Viper, but that's a whole different type of car. The Ferrari requires a more supple touch than the brute force of a Viper or Vette.
Definitely keep us on top of the synchro news when you attack the tranny, I'm definitely curious to know what the story is.
Talk to you later,
Bret |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
| | Posted on Monday, January 08, 2001 - 1:49 am: | |
Larry, we'll take a look at my tranny when I get it out. I'm curious to see the condition of the forth gear syncroniser compared to the other, better ones in the 'box. Oh ya, I've tried it before in my Colt, this power shifting thing. Well I guess I don't have your touch, because all I got was a whole pile of awful noise and a hard slap in the palm of my hand from the stick shift. Sorry, I'll keep using my clutch! |
larry dunn
| | Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2001 - 9:12 pm: | |
no pun intended but, it's just another way to connect w/your car; w/driving. yes engine speed and rolling speed must match. if you don't have it down, say, in a dozen miles then stop....and i only go w/out a clutch while normal driving; never when i'm standing on it. it won't work w/a bad syncro. my 75 gt4 is harsh w/or w/out a clutch. i'm only guessing the newer models have a more friendly gear box. try it w/your second car if you like; instead of the ferrari. regards larry |
Bret M
| | Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2001 - 7:42 pm: | |
I figured they had to have some sort of difference to make it possible for them to function like that normally. The Ferrari is tricky enough to shift with the clutch, trying without it would send shivers down my spine. I don't even like to think about it. |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
| | Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2001 - 7:29 pm: | |
Bret, I work for Advance Engineered Products in Surrey, B.C. Canada. We build and service tanker-trucks and trailers, aircraft refuelers, etc... Those big rigs you mention use "dog-boxes". Gear engagement is achieved using dog engagement rings. These rings have large, broad, squared teeth which grab the matching teeth rapidly and firmly. You need this when driving several tons of mass. You "tickle" the gears before engaging (teeth just rubbing each other). On passenger cars you have syncronised engagement rings, which have numerous, fine, pointed teeth to offer smooth and easy engagement. This design does not allow power shifting, you will damage the teeth. When they wear down, shifting action will become more difficult. When I mention teeth, I'm NOT talking about the teeth of the gear, but the teeth of the engagement ring. The engagement ring slides on a spline on the shaft of the gears and mates with the matching engagement machined on the gear. |
Bret M
| | Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2001 - 1:03 pm: | |
I just remembered something, it was in Road and Track a few months ago. There was a guy with a new Mercury Cougar that he couldn't throw shifts as fast because it would crunch. Apparently it had something to do with the exhaust valves staying open longer to help emissions and mileage and because of this it took the transaxle longer to slow down, hence it would crunch if you shifted before the transaxle evened out with the engine. I know the whole emissions Ferrari story, could they have done something along this line to cause some of these problems? |
Bret M
| | Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2001 - 12:58 pm: | |
My friends owns Cace Trucking (one of the largest in the nation) so I've spent a bit of time around the big rigs and they still remain to be the only vehicle I've ever encountered that you didn't benefit from using the clutch. It's true that without the clutch the transmission and engine have to be perfectly matched to engage, but what would you gain in doing this to a Ferrari, in which the clutch is definitely there for a reason. In all honesty, I wouldn't even powershift, the gains from it are neglible. The rod system used by Ferrari (that click when you shift) as far as I can tell isn't set up for shifting like you would a muscle car or a corvette. Plus a new tranny is kind of expensive so I'm not ready to jump into the idea of turning my Ferrari into a stoplight granprix race car and risk blowing it.
I'm going under to adjust the clutch pedal soon, so when I do I'm gonna try different adjustments of the shifter and see if I can get it a little better.
I don't think Ferrari's have the smoothest trannies, I guess it's just Ferrari-isms. I still love em though. |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
| | Posted on Sunday, January 07, 2001 - 12:11 pm: | |
larry dunn, Isn't that too risky, even for a good driver. I've never even tried a power shift once. Don't the RPM's have to match perfectly? |
larry dunn
| | Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 11:37 pm: | |
...well, i'm probably asking for it here but; you guy's should learn to drive w/out the clutch....save your clutch until you need it. stops and, redline. steve has nailed the, "1st to r" TDC. regards |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
| | Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 10:39 pm: | |
Seeing as the engine is rubber-mounted and the shifter linkage is rigid, does this affect shifting performance? Race cars use the engine as a stressed-member so no geometry changes with the linkage. Bret, its reassuring to hear someone else with a forth gear crunch, I thought I was the only one (felt left out of the 2nd gear crowd). If everyone's syncros are fine and we get crunching, maybe it is this misalignment with the engine moving and the linkage dealing with this. Nick's adjustable top rod is probably an excellent way to stop this. |
Bret M
| | Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 3:27 pm: | |
When I put it in reverse I always go 2-1-R and that always works with no grinding. What I have noticed though is that if I shift really quickly into any gear (4th is the worst) alot of times it will have a tendency to grind a bit before it slips in, even though the clutch is totally depressed. It's only a fraction of a second that it wont slip in. I just usually let the rpm's drop a little before I put it in the next gear to avoid this problem. The synchros were all checked a year or so ago and they were all good. I guess the transaxle has to slow down for the shift, but my jeep wrangler can shift faster which makes me wonder how a almost race car would survive with a delay like this. It's not a big deal, but I was just wondering if this was a typical Ferrari problem? |
Jerry
| | Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 12:11 pm: | |
Helpful link for 308 guys. http://home.att.net/~ferrari/index.htm |
Steve Magnusson
| | Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 11:47 am: | |
Peter -- I did not have the priviledge of really needing to get deep inside the gearbox on my ex-308GTS, but if it isn't something wrong with your 4th gear syncro mechanism than it's still something wacky in that same general neighborhood (and unfortunately once you open up a gearbox it makes sense to do damn near "everything" -- which is why gearbox problems don't usually get addressed until they are really totally unacceptable). I'd also add that the 2-3 and 3-4 upshifts have been quite enjoyable in the 2 F's I've had (4-5 I've not used as hard as much as the speed is already getting a little crazy and 1-2 is usually treated more gently by the knowledgeable Owner) -- so I think a syncro problem in the middle gears is not too surprising at moderate total mileage.
My ex-308 also had/has a very sweet transaxle which made other's vigorous complaints seem a bit odd, but I've come to accept that there must be a lot of variability as my TR is one of those on the more difficult side 1-2 when cold.
Steve M. |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
| | Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2001 - 1:16 am: | |
Okay Steve, what about the forth gear in my car? It almost always crunches when I engage it. Only this gear, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th and rev. always engage smoothly. Yes, 2nd engages without protest, even cold! Thoughts? |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
| | Posted on Friday, January 05, 2001 - 3:46 pm: | |
Sorry, I haven't been on expensivecar too much.
That's a good idea about going into first before reverse. I'll try it.
Thanks |
Steve Magnusson
| | Posted on Friday, January 05, 2001 - 3:41 pm: | |
Rob,
Didn't we just have a long discussion about this on the FerrariList? Your clutch is not fully disengaging for some reason (bad pilot bearing, mis-adjusted, warped flywheel, etc.). Selecting reverse will always "crunch" if you're rolling (no syncro). The forward gears have syncros so they're more immune to this problem. If when stopped, you select first gear (which stops the clutch input shaft) just before trying to select reverse gear does it get into reverse better? |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
| | Posted on Friday, January 05, 2001 - 2:31 pm: | |
I can't figure out why sometimes something sounds like it's grinding when I go into reverse. The clutch is in, so why would it grind? None of the other gears ever do this. It did it more at first when I would shift into reverse before I had stopped rolling forward or the engine rpm's were still coming down to idle. Now it doesn't happen as much if I pause a little before putting in reverse.
Anyone else experience this? |
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