| Author | Message | ||
| Martin Wiescholek (Miami348ts)
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I am not quite sure about that 348 comment. As I have written before I had driven 308QVs, 328s and 1989 to 1991 Testarossas. Now I own the 348. The 348 is not a TR by all means but that is a complete different range altogether. So lets compare it to the 328, the closest relative. Weight, engine, components, height, center of gravity etc. all much more improved from the 328. I agree that the 348 is not an "Enzo" Ferrari anymore. This is why this car is usually receiving a negative point compared to the 328s. In reality though you get a much more modern car in a 348 than an equally priced 328. It is a whole different car that takes adjustment. Just like the 355 to the 360. It is a different car. For all you people out there questioning the repair cost...read this: Just got a call from my mechanic. My BMW 840Ci is in the shop. All I wanted to have looked at was the AC, which appears to leak freon. The AC is $ 1500, the front spoiler under the bumper (little plastic piece) is $ 200, two wire harness for the front lights at $ 200 each, I need a new muffler $1000 for the part. So I picked up the car to wait until the parts come in from Germany and on my way the car stalls and shuts the engine. Had thesame a few months before. That was $ 1500 back then. All in all I spend $ 8000 in repairs since same time last year. My Ferrari had only cost me $4,500 and I drove the same distance with both cars, 8000 Miles/year. I think I am getting another Ferrari as my rain-car! | ||
| Chris_N_Chicago (Chris_N_Chicago)
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not to be argumentative, but I really enjoy my '95 348 Spider. Ever drive one? They are so different than the build quality on the old 348's. My 2 Cents.. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
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Stu, I have heard that the 328 is mostly an aluminum body whereas the 308QV is steel & thus heavier. Of course the 328 has a 7% larger engine & a little more power with less weight & probably bigger brakes. In Winston Goodfellow's book about Italian exotics he says the 328 has a much more modern suspension. Ive heard a lot of negative comments about the handling of the 348 & even Ferraris then new President was less than impressed with his 348. So If I were u I would trade up to a 328 or 355 & skip the 348 Then again, u can get a 512BBi for less than a 355 these days  | ||
| stu cordova (Balataboy)
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William, I'm curious as to what it is you now understand that leads you to conclude the 328 is "probably a much better car than the QV"? I've always thought that I would jump from my 308QV to a 348, skipping the 328 because it's too much like what I already have. So I'm very interested in hearing others opinions as to how they feel the two cars differ (aside from the obvious cosmetic differences)- and specifically how the 328 is a "better" car. Thanks very much | ||
| Brian Mussett (Theferrarikid)
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Ken, I bought my first Ferrari at the end of last summer, when I got rid of my Porsche 944. The 944 was a nice car, and VERY reliable. Once in a while it even turned some heads !! BUT, the FERRARI ??? My GOD!! People just GAWK at this car, and they don't care if you see them gawking or not!! My 83 308 gts qv with 26 clicks was 37K. Just the other day it stopped running (see my thread in tech q&a) The funny thing is, even though fixing it will be a pain in the ass, I don't care!! Even if it costs 2 large to fix, I don't care! I have never owned a car that gave me such a feeling of pride and excitement all at once. The funny thing is, before I bought the car, I didn't know that it would be such an attention getter. I did't even know about Magnum PI because I don't watch alot of TV. I bought the car because I am attracted to their heritage and reputation. I guess the gawking came as a bonus eh?? I really think it takes passion and commitment to own a Ferrari. Reading this thread it seems most agree the 308's are reliable. Mine has been fine up to this point, and I'm sure it won't be anything major. When I get it back on the road I will appreciate it EVEN MORE!!! Hope you find happiness! Brian | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
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Ken, back in 1990 after doing similair research I bought a 308QV cus it was the fastest 308 built, I didnt care for the looks of the 328 although now I understand its probably a much better car than the QV. So for performance u can go with the 308QV, the 328, or an early fiberglass 308, these last ones r rare so probably still a bit more expensive. As for outrunning a boxster or S2000, unless u r Mario Andretti & u have a windy road, I dont think its going to happen, especially not in a straight line cus the other 2 have a 17 yr technological advantage over a 308QV | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
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Ken, back in 1990 after doing similair research I bought a 308QV cus it was the fastest 308 built, I didnt care for the looks of the 328 although now I understand its probably a much better car than the QV. So for performance u can go with the 308QV, the 328, or an early fiberglass 308, these last ones r rare so probably still a bit more expensive. As for outrunning a boxster or S2000, unless u r Mario Andretti & u have a windy road, I dont think its going to happen, especially not in a straight line cus the other 2 have a 17 yr technological advantage over a 308QV | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
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Just my thoughts on a "first Ferrari". I have been a car nut since birth, and a few years ago bought my first performance car for "reliability" (a '96 Porsche 911). While generally reliable, even routine maintenance costs a fortune. Great performance, but no "soul". The same applies to my 540i. A few months ago I saw a pristine '74 Dino 246 GTS and my blood pressure soared. Yes, it's not the fastest, definitely not "reliable" in the Porsche/BMW sense, parts and labor are expensive, and my wife's car smokes me, but when I am behind the wheel I am transported back 25 years to the thrill of my first driving experience. These cars just bring on ear-to-ear grins from otherwise sober and responsible adults, and you can spend hours driving up and down country roads just listening to the engine sing (I do this routinely). I guess that what I am trying to convey to Ken and anyone else thinking of buying a Ferrari is that there is a lot of joy to be had, but you must balance the price of this joy with your need for other essentials. Do not spend the rent money on any car, or the tension of debt will outweigh the thrills of ownership. And yes, be prepared for a rather large outlay for fairly ordinary items. Like any other purchase, finance it if you want to, but as a general rule of thumb do not let your monthly payment on ALL debt exceed 25% of your net (after-tax) monthly income AFTER rent/mortgage, utilities and other recurring expenses are taken out. And by the way, if anyone out there is currently achieving 10-20% annualized returns in today's market without idiotic risk I will hire him/her immediately to replace my current financial advisor. It just ain't happening. | ||
| Sam NYCFERRARIS (Sam)
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I have driven a lot of cars myself and based on my liited experiences ---the 308QV gts is the second most fun car I have ever driven. The first was a Lotus turbo esprit...as close to a F-1 type ride for the least price...if you don't care about reliability, or depreciation and just want a great looking fun ride--can't beat the Lotus. The best all around daily driver's car for relaibliity, has to be porsche or bmw. best reliability - mercedes. BUT some people (like me) just got to have a Ferrari (or two or three) because they are reliable -no, becuase they are the fastest-no, because they have the state of the art engineering--no; becuase they have this aura about them (like a alluring woman) and are made in a small town in Italy in small numbers by a historic and very successful and exciting and (sexy) racing team ---YES YES YES! Again, one does not buy a ferrari as much as the ferrari buys you... you will know the model and car you want --emotionally, you will HAVE to HAVE IT. | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
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Martin, hit in on the head. Just drive the car and you will have a great time and the car will be fine. | ||
| Martin Wiescholek (Miami348ts)
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I have driven several Ferrari. When I was 20 years old I started a car dealership in Germany. Started importing exotic cars and drove almost all of them 308, 328, TR's new and used alike. I had so many to drive at a young age that it became like driving a regular car. So I had a break from these cars when I sold my business and moved to the US. After almost 8 years I finally bought the next Ferrari. Being 6'4'' tall I had to look for a newer car. The 308 and 328 were a little small. And big, in Florida you NEED aircondition. Last year I bought my 348TS a 1991. It had almost 22000 Miles and was inside out in great condition. Today, 1 year and 3 months later the car has 30,500 Miles because I drive the car every day. My problems? Really none, except those idiotic things that I caused myself. Put too much oil in the car ($450) and after 25K the clutch goes. Now I also know what a flywheel is. NEVER drive with a slipping clutch. The flywheel will go as well and that is an additional $ 4K My advise to a buyer is simple, DRIVE THE CAR and you will not have any more problems than with any other car. Yes, the service is more money but not that much more. Overall the cars are reliable starting with the QV engines in 1982/3. Maintain your car, fresh oil every 2000 Miles and you have the greatest driving experience in a lifetime. There is cars and there is a FERRARI, nothing really in between. And as I said...I had a dealership and drove everything. | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
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Anyway Guys, enjoy your Ferrari and the priviledge of owning one, because as uncertain as life is, today may be as good as it gets.Magoo | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
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I think that in our case a Ferrari is not an investment. It is being able to afford a sex toy hoping the high dollar end won't outweigh the pleasure we all derive from it. MAGOO | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
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Well Guys, I'm exhausted reading all of the various comments. Everones situation is different. Some of us can work on our own cars, that makes a big difference. Others can pay cash up front for our cars, another big difference. We buy these cars as a toy not a every day driver. As for the guy who buys one with a big $ nut on the back end, you may be in trouble when it comes to maintence or repairs. If you are worried about buying a car that is constantly depreciating, while you are struggling to make the repairs on it,along with the payments, then maybe you should buy a older Ferrari that doesn't depreciate, and if you go to sell it, you won't lose, hopefully. Each situation is different, and we have to evaluate our position prior to buying and not get caught up in the euphoria. MAGOO | ||
| Daniel B Reese MD (Dbr328gtb)
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Dont be discouraged. I think if you get a good one to begin with (as I did with my 328gtb)I think an average of $3000/yr in maint is a reasonable expectation to keep it perfect (including the occasional major service). To keep costs down- drive it (its better for the car. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
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Most of us are already owners, we need to say the opposite... My Big Mac at lunch cost more than my Ferrari has. | ||
| Bernard Rowe (Gtsturbo)
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I just realised what you guys are doing!! Very Clever!! If we make Ferrari ownership sound so bad & expensive anybody new looking at this site will say "now way" & go buy another make of car!! The price of used cars falls (another thread already noticed the effect on Ebay) & we can all afford to buy our dream! Clever!! | ||
| Christiank (Christiank)
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I own two Ferrari and both have a crystal clear history, but I still had a lot of money to spend to bring them up to my standard. One problem is that the dealers rip us off in maintenance and parts costs (and don't do much for the money), so we (or the previous owners) start trying on our own. But the cars are so sensitive that this leads into disaster. | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
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You know, perhaps we should start a thread were every owner states their average annual maintenance costs. As Michael clearly stated, it is not about fear, but about been informed. I have been considering a Ferrari for a while, and I've finally been in the market for one for the last two months, and let me tell you, it has not been easy becoming knowledgeable about these cars. It seems that most people learn the hard way, or the easy way, about loving or hating the Marque. There is a lot of information about which car won what, or who drove this car or that car to the championship, but very little information about the day to day relationship between owner and car. A lot of people draw so much pleasure from driving them that they tend to ignore the troubles or dilemmas they have to put up with to hang on to their passion. I have driven about 5 Testarossas by now. The first two were a sour experience, but the last three have been pure excitement. I can understand what the passion is all about, what I cannot understand is why it is so hard to get information about the facts of ownership of a Ferrari. Sometimes it seems people get offended by this type of inquiries into their passion. Some of them are really eager to share the positives aspects of ownership, but fearful or reluctant to even think about the negatives. Nevertheless, from the point of view of a buyer willing to face the facts given those are readily available and well understood, it is detrimental to the marque the amount of effort it takes to become acquainted with these cars. Most people understand apriori that they are getting into a car that will eat away more money in repairs and maintenance cost than most other cars out there. Nevertheless, seldom it seems justified the kinds of expenses they are force to incur. Based on the experience of others, it seems that Ferrari owners are common targets of over priced repairs, parts, and service costs. Yes, you could do many of these yourself. For others, it's best to get the hands of a reputable, well qualified technician. During my search, I have become acquainted with the service and repair receipts of others, and I have been amazed about the amount of money charged for labor for frivolous items such as a simple battery change. Granted some cars have rather difficult battery placements, nevertheless, speaking in a general sense, labor for many things is highly overpriced. I am glad some of you are courageous enough to talk and discuss the facts of ownership in a place like this. That is not only encouraging to a prospective buyer, but it also provides peace of mind knowing that there are other people that share the same interest willing to roll up their sleeves, and get right down to it (with little or no attitude, I might add) to further enjoy and enhance the prestige of the marque. Caribe. | ||
| Michael A. Niles (Man90tr)
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The way I see it is we all have had our experiences and any one of these experiences can happen to Caribe or Ken. It should not be frightful but viewed as becoming knowledgable about everything that can happen with a 10 - 20 year old street/race car. But my two cents is if you plan to really drive the car, Ferraris are expensive no matter how you slice the story. that is just a fact of life of owning the car. And for those who presently do not have high expenses don't feel left out, your time will come --unless you bail out and sell the car before it happens. | ||
| Chris_N_Chicago (Chris_N_Chicago)
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I think you guys are scaring the crap out of Caribe and Ken... | ||
| Herbert E. Gault (Irfgt)
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There is a good chance that a low milage car that checks out well will be OK but what if? Are you prepared if the thing goes sour? Can you afford to make car payments while you also save for repairs? All these need to be considered and always ask yourself, What if? | ||
| Danny R. West (Dan_West348ts)
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I purchased a 348ts last year with a pre-owned warranty. I still spent close to $20,000 since June '00 for repairs and upgrades. These cars may seem affordable when you are dealing for them. However, you need to understand that parts and repairs are expensive. I knew going into Ferrari ownership that a pre-owned car could cost you tens of thousands of dollars. I had to have the major service redone because the previous owner was ripped off by an unscrupulous Ferrari repair shop ( there will be more about that in upcoming discussions ). You got to love these cars to own them. They are not for the "weak of wallet". Dan | ||
| JPM (John_308qv)
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Very interesting conversation guys. If you are going to own an exotic sports car, maintenance is going to be pricy. I have found maintaining the Ferrari not much more expensive than the Prosche I owned previously. As for my experience with the 308, if you buy a car that has been well maintained and checks out o.k. before you buy it then the chances are that the car will be reliable. Enjoy! | ||
| Sam NYCFERRARIS (Sam)
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You really have got to want a old Ferrari period. Liekthe saying goes if you have to ask.... then you can't do it. $40K for a sports car.. you have to be crazy not to buy a brand new Corvette Z06 ...(or even a 96 NSX) a real 355 beater and a 360 challenger..c'mon all Ferrari Passion aside...be objective. and you get a NEW car and it is a chevy and under warranty no less and it will make a 308 drive and feel and maintain like a kia. BUT.. if you have to have a Ferrari they are special and unique(like us crazies) then the 308/328 are affordable. but they are not the wise financial decision unless you buy a wreck and sell for parts to crazies like us. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
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He just bought a below average Ferrari. I bought an average Ferrari and have only spent $500 on things you could consider non standard maintenance. | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
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You see, this is the thing that I do not understand. Are all ferraris this bad or Herbert just bought a Lemon? $20K in 1.5 Yrs is not worthed IMHO for any car. A mistress perhaps, but not a car. Please guys, lets be honest! Is this what a Ferrari really will cost to maintain? Caribe. | ||
| Herbert E. Gault (Irfgt)
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Keep one thing in mind. You are buying a $40,000 car that is going on 20 years old and has 80's technology. Please plan on spending about three times what you expect to keep it running. The money adds up in a hurry on this and that. I have had my 82 308 for a year and a half and have spent 20,000 on repairs and that is just parts as I do all my own labor, and it is still sitting waiting on more parts. I would not be able to sleep if I were still making payments on a dust collector. | ||
| Herbert E. Gault (Irfgt)
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You mean a CHANCE at earning 10-20% in the stock market. I would be willing to bet that you will pay more interest on a used car loan than you would gain in the same time period in the stock market. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
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Just the cost you are willing to pay? Maintenance and Depreciation vs Mainteanance, Depreciation, Interest Expense, and Opportunity Cost | ||
| michael (Scmguru)
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Herbert, I disagree. I'd much rather have my money earning me 10-20% in the stock market year to year than put the same money all at once into a depreciating asset. Just my $.02 | ||
| Ken (Fman)
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Thanks everyone for the follow up, been looking at 328's and 348's some today online, I still think the 348 may be out of my range AND there seems to be a number of problems with them (early models at least from what I've read). I'm assuming these cars must be heavy because they seem to put out decent HP, but you say that they aren't as fast as say a Boxster or S2000. Is anyone giving away a 360 Spider? ;) One question, I was looking at a site in Europe today that had a bunch of Ferraris for sale, all listed in Euros. When I did the conversion from Euros to Dollars, it looked like most of the cars were 5-10K less than the same car in the U.S. Are european models less expensive for some reason? | ||
| Chris Tanner (Ctanner)
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At under $40K and a first time Ferrari buyer, you really only have 2 cars available to you with the open top: the Mondial, 1986 - 1988, and the 308gtsQV, 1983-1985. There are other cars available under $40K like the 412, but this probably isn't a car that would meet your aesthetic criteria. Of the 308 or Mondial, in stock condition, the 308 will be faster. Neither has a 0-60 better than the Boxster or S2000, but from a rolling start, you'll have fun and stay competitive. If your budget permits, an 86 328 can be had in the mid $40K. There is currently an 1986 red/black 328GTS with 27K miles in LA area for $46K (down from original asking of $53K). A TR is almost impossible to find under $55K so that breaks the budget by a lot. A good 348 (mid-1991 or later) is also a budget breaker at $55-60K. Both the Mondial and the 308 are great cars, have a supportive owners group, and have readily available parts in comparison to 412 or 365. Good Luck...CT | ||
| Christiank (Christiank)
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The only way to match all of that is to buy a 308 GTSi or GTBi modified by NicksforzaFerrari. The rest does not work. | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
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Ken, I agree with Fred, financing should not discourage you from purchasing your dream car. I am currently in the market for a Ferrari myself, and I am planning to finance mine, as well. I have seen cars that raise you hopes to heaven, and others that send them to hell, but the important thing is that once you understand what a Ferrari is all about and know what to look for, you will feel more comfortable searching for it. On my quest, I have found places like this very important. You will find cars that seem like what you are looking for but that you are not so sure about, I recommend sharing it with others, and you will see how tons of information and options suddenly become available. My 2 cents, Good luck! Caribe. | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
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I think it is very important not to get caught up in the first one you look at (Ferrari-itis). The first 308 I looked at I thought I HAD to have it. I held out and looked at quite a few and had four inspected by a mechanic. The one I ended up buying is a world apart from the first one I looked at. Personally I like the interior of my 308. The instrument cluster is all business. It is dated but to me it is a classic look. One more thing. I don't agree that if you have to finance a Ferrari you are not ready for a Ferrari. I put a good chunk down on mine and in a little over two years I will be finished paying for it. I would be suprised if most of the people on this board aren't financing theirs. Goodluck on your pick and keep us posted. Fred | ||
| David Jones (Dave)
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Well, if you have a 40k price range.... If it were me, I would get a 308 for around 30k, and use the 10k reserve for the maintance on the car. A 512 will run you around 70k, plus the pocket cost on maintance goes way up on a 12-banger.. unless of course you happen to have a lift in your garage, and you are incline to working on flat 12's.... If your not going to be doing maintance items on your car like, waterpump replacement, cambelt replacement, valve adj. and so forth, First thing I would recomend before you even purchase a car would be to find the other Ferrari owners in town, and get recomendations from them on who is the best mechanic in town, then go talk with them and let them know of your impending purchase... It always pays to have a plan in place before you make the buy..... Good Luck! Dave | ||
| Herbert E. Gault (Irfgt)
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If you have to finance a Ferrari then you are not ready for a Ferrari IMHO. | ||
| Mark (Mnmark)
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Oh Yeah! As for beating Boxsters and S2000s, heck, you got a FERRARI! You win by default. When I arrive in my 17 year old 308, I know I don't have the fastest car... Remember, those who feel they must race you are feeling inferior, and feel they must then prove fitness. It ain't the big bull picking the fights, its all them little bulls trying to take over! And the great part, you don't need to race them, you still got the Ferrari! | ||
| Mark (Mnmark)
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I would recommend sticking to your guns on prices. If you spend more than you plan and max out on car payments, then, by Murphy's Law, you will hit a cat at 75mph on the Interstate and not be able to afford to repair the vehicle. No experience, but several people note that the aluminum panels need tlc, and Rocco's Body Shop on the corner won't do. As for "low miles" there is debate as to what exactly that means. Most of us would remind you that Ferraris are made to be run, and a car with very few miles may have more problems than a well maintained, but "used" car. Buying from a dealer may improve your odds of getting a car that is as represented -- maintained, etc. There is a cost premium, though. In the words of Harry Callahan, "So you gotta ask yerself one question, Do I Feel Lucky? Well, do ya? Punk?" prior to buying from an owner or a 'used Ferrari lot' as I did. Personally had no problems. Good luck! You won't regret your purchase! | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
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Hmm, you'll get a million responses, but here's mine... Your situation is very very similar to mine, but I was even more concerned with the reliability and drivability. I went with a 1986 328gts that had 45k miles on it. The price was very attractive, but I had to do the 30k mile service on it, which cost about $3,000 with a few other extras. The car is solid, after 9 months I've put 2k miles on it with no problems. I did have the water pump rebuilt, which most consider to be a standard maintenance item. I drive it to work, I drive it around town in traffic, and when lucky I get it out of town. The point is it's very drivable with no problems. Performance wise for the money it would of been better to get a Viper, but you don't buy a Ferrari just for performance. It can handle most cars on the street, especially crusing around at higher speeds. Even new 911's have problems with it when launching from 3rd or 4th in it's sweet zone. If drivability or reliability aren't at the top of your list I would recommend going with one of the V12's. Alternatives to the 308/328 would be the 348 which gives you huge performance increase or a Mondial which gives you a back seat. If you like a more classic Ferrari, I would recommend a 365 GTC/4 or a 330. | ||
| Ken (Fman)
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I've always wanted one, who hasn't? I think it is about time for me buy one, but hence the quandry: Which one to buy? Here are my thoughts about the car and my driving habits and price range, let's see if you can help match me with my dream car! I've always been partial to the 308 since Magnum PI was on the air, yet I do like the 512 and 'Rossas, and my ultimate would be the 360 Spider (Ok I'm getting ahead of myself, but we prefer convertibles ;) Let's start price - $40,000 range, yes I could go higher if I had to, but I'd prefer not to unless the car will really hold its value and later I can get the money out of I have to (wouldn't want to though). So let's start at 40K or under for now. Driving Habits - I work home office, thus my current car sits in the garage most of the time, my sweetie has the SUV for us to get groceries in whenever we need to and for long trips. I like to drive fast, but responsibly. Please don't recommend something that can't outrun a Porsche Boxster or Honda S2K, I'm not buying a Ferrari to look at their taillights. ;) Color - I suppose I prefer Red with either a black or tan interior, I've never thought Ferrari interiors were all that attractive so let's make sure the outside of the car is looking good please! Mechanicals - The knock I always hear against Ferrari - you can't drive that thing regularly, it will fall apart, yada yada yada. I use to rebuild engines in high school and have a fair understanding of auto mechanics, but for anything serious, I would take it into the shop. I'd certainly prefer a car with all papers, low miles and a sound mechanical history and current condition. Intangibles - Will this car hold its value? Is there something about his particular model or series that makes it more appealing? Are there any special options on the car that are sought after? Anything else I am leaving out? You folks are the experts here, I know that simply I want to buy my first Ferrari, but have no idea what is a "good" deal or what car I should be seeking given my criteria above. Can you give me a little help? ;) Merci! FMan! |