| Author |
Message |
Todd Gieger (Todd328gts)
Junior Member
Username: Todd328gts
Post Number: 60
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Friday, August 09, 2002 - 12:05 am: | |
Welcome John! Keep in touch with us 328's
All the best,
TTG |
Christian (Christiank)
Member
Username: Christiank
Post Number: 390
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 11:33 pm: | |
John:
I knew you would buy it. Take the next step and try to recover your 25 on ebay. Even if you only get 20, it will be well worth it. It's like the stock market. The first loss is the lowest.
Christian
|
Terry (Dogue)
Junior Member
Username: Dogue
Post Number: 74
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 11:27 pm: | |
I am very happy for you, even though I thought it would be better to buy a more solid car. I sincerely hope the previous owner did take care of the car mechanically. Doing some of the work yourself you should save some money. Take a look at this article about painting a Ferrari it might help when shopping the job.
http://www.ferraris-online.com/Articles/SCM_0006.html
They are great cars I hope you did find a bargain. |
John L. Jordan Jr. (Up2nogd)
New member
Username: Up2nogd
Post Number: 6
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 10:52 pm: | |
Okay - here is the good the bad and the ugly!! I bought the 328 GTS project car! just got it home tonight - My mechanic recommended not to drive it home because of lack of service records (although I did find every record under the seat!!) I towed it a 100 miles or so and on the way I have never seen so many heads turn - at three stops people would come over just to take a look -- man what a feeling! After a very quick cleaing the car really is not that bad (everything works!) - a good paint job and some interior work and I'll be able to make a decent car out of it -- One big question - it does have that hood bend from the button not being pushed - didn't I read that you can convert to a 1989 latch to eliminate this?? Thanks to everyone that answered this Forum - to some I have made a very expensive mistake, to others I will have fun turning a wrench - whichever way it goes - "Man What A Feeling - Good or Bad" Sincere thanks to Dave - although it may appear that I did not take your advise - I was much more careful than I would have been otherwise! |
Doug Meredith (Doug308)
Junior Member
Username: Doug308
Post Number: 177
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 8:46 pm: | |
$10-$20k below market value, yet his reserve is not met at $12,500..... |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member
Username: Irfgt
Post Number: 1736
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 6:56 pm: | |
What we have been discussing here is the economic sense on whether to fix up a "Diamond in the Rough" versus purchasing a "Turn Key" car. If you add in the variables of not enough funds to buy the perfect car, but being able to spread the costs out over time for a love affair, changes things and makes a purchase viable. If you truly love the car then no amount of money can be questioned and financial loss does not matter. I love my Corvair and spare no expense keeping it alive and well and it is not for sale. I have also spared no expense restoring my Ferrari, but I have never fallen in love with it and that makes a huge difference. I now look at it as a financial loss where as I do not see my Corvair that way. Some things have so much sentamental value that price is no object and that overrules common sense. |
L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
New member
Username: Lwausbrooks
Post Number: 15
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 6:55 pm: | |
Chris,
That is what Keith Martin would describe as a serious fright-pig! Very scary. As for the VIN, the guy obviously didn't know what the real VIN was when he was posting the car on eBay and just typed in 17 digits.
Wayne |
Horsefly (Arlie)
Junior Member
Username: Arlie
Post Number: 143
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 6:46 pm: | |
Wrench turner, I'm no expert, so somebody please correct my observations if they are wrong. Non-original wheels. Sure would be nice to have original wheels but from what I've read on this site, the later 16 inch size wheels are better that the original 1978 metric size wheels. But any original Ferrari wheel would be worth more to me if I was buying that car. I wouldn't pay $100 for a set of those ugly aftermarket wheels. Is that front bumper original on a '78 308? I thought they had the impact resistant front bumper. Unless maybe it was a European gray market car. If so, buyer beware! The seller called it a Daytona front end and considers it an "upgrade". That would make me think that it had been in a wreck that ripped out the front bumper and somebody "upgraded" it with a Euro front end. Also, what are all those aftermarket, multi-colored toggle switches on the console? I'll admit that I'm no expert, but those don't look original. More like something from Radio Shack. As for the Panasonic stereo, who cares. You can buy a new stereo at a million different places any day of the week. I would say, pull off all the non-original crap, throw it in a pile, and then make an offer on what is left. |
chris (Wrench_turner)
New member
Username: Wrench_turner
Post Number: 24
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 6:23 pm: | |
Speaking of restoration candidates, what all do you think of this? I'm someone who loves the work and doesn't care about the cost (if I had a perfect car I'd take it apart anyway)... It happens to be exactly what I want (which is a carb'd 308 GTB that needs work).
I wouldn't pay more than 10 or 12k for a car like this, but look at the VIN # - it looks kind of fishy to me.
VIN 23597123456789123
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1849700046&indexURL=2#ebayphotohosting
|
Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Junior Member
Username: Me_k
Post Number: 85
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 5:52 pm: | |
Personally, I thought - "hey I can do all my own work, I'll buy the less than perfect car. I can do the work, it may take a while, but I'll have a nice car when I'm done and I don't really have the money for the nice one right now any way". I bought a rough 308 QV. The car is almost finished, it just need new paint. I have spent about $15k on parts. The paint, if I do the prep will be another 4-5K. The nice car would have been a lot cheaper, not counting my time. I think that's true for just about any car. But, I do love the car. It's slightly modified, since I had to buy the part anyway I bought what I wanted. I find it very relaxing to go out to the garage and play with the car. I'm glad I bought the rough one. |
Horsefly (Arlie)
Junior Member
Username: Arlie
Post Number: 140
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 3:37 pm: | |
As for me, being a bottom feeder car enthusiast, it is more important to me to actually ACQUIRE a car that I like, then worry about its state of perfection (or not) later on. They say that half the fun is in the chase, and for me, alot of the fun is in the "tinkering" with an old car. If I don't get it into excellent driving condition in a few months, no big deal. I personally don't have a ton of money, so I don't mind latching onto a project car that needs work. At least then it is MINE and I can put money into it when, and if, I like. Frank (anti-Dino) said it best on another thread when he suggested that one shouldn't obtain a loan and make payments on a toy or hobby. Old cars are a hobby, and latching onto an old car for a hobby at a cheaper cost is more important than just obtaining an excellent car at the standard market value. At least for me. |
Todd Gieger (Todd328gts)
Junior Member
Username: Todd328gts
Post Number: 59
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 3:24 pm: | |
Here's my take on it...I am a fan of the 328gts...and I would assume our friend Jordan, deep down, really does prefer one just a tiny bit more than the other. If you don't by the car that really want, it is just a matter of time until you say, "I wish I bought the other one"...even after you bought and dolled the one up that was better deal.
I would be willing to bet that one of the two just gets you fired up a little bit more than the other...wait until you can buy that one!
Peace,
TTG |
Terry (Dogue)
Junior Member
Username: Dogue
Post Number: 69
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 3:05 pm: | |
Horsefly,
I don't think anyone is saying they are worthless, what I think everyone has said, except you, is that it will not be profitable to try and restore a car for a driver. Let those that love to restore cars do the work. I know of a few people that have restored 308s and they never made a profit, but really enjoyed the work. Believe it or not most people restoring cars do it for the love of the car not to profit. I cannot tell you how many auctions I have been to that the auctioneer would state that the owner put $200K+ on the restoration and the high bid never hit $100k. Of course some people inflate the number they suposedly spent. If you could pick up a 328 in poor condition for $5k it would definately be worth it, but a poor condition 328 for $25k is whole different story. An 1986 328 with 51k miles and no records in GREAT condition is not worth $40k so why spend $15k less on a poor condition one. Just do the math a very good paint job will cost no less than $10k a major is going to run from $2500 - $4k and interior work is going to cost at least $2k. You can easily find a nice car for $40k and not have to worry about what you overlooked. Again just my opinion. |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member
Username: Irfgt
Post Number: 1734
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 2:38 pm: | |
Arlie, your assumption is correct. a worn car is only worth 5 to 6 thousand dollars because of the expense that it will take to bring it up to snuff.The problem is that there are too many of these cars out there and some will have to be sacrificed until the herd is thinned out and the values go up unless there are more people like me that had the mistaken idea that I could build one more economically than I could buy one. Maybe if the demand was higher and the cars less plentiful and parts were less expensive. |
Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member
Username: Willis360
Post Number: 839
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 2:30 pm: | |
Convert those old, wornout Ferraris into track cars or hotrods. |
Horsefly (Arlie)
Junior Member
Username: Arlie
Post Number: 138
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 2:19 pm: | |
Here's another question to ponder. Everybody says "Don't buy a project car needing work, buy a nice car that will cost the same as your project car would after all the money gets put into it."
OK, if everybody does buy a nice car, what will happen to all those lower level Ferraris that are well used, need alot of work, but are still intact? If nobody is supposed to waste their money on them, then I guess they are pretty much worthless except for parts, right? But if everybody else buys an excellent car to begin with, then they won't even need any parts, right? So those old, well worn, used Ferraris needing work will become even more worthless because they aren't even needed for parts, right?
Well, if they are so worthless, then I will take a well worn 308 or 328 for 5 or 6 thousand dollars thank you. It doesn't have to run, I have a trailer and can tow it home. |
Terry (Dogue)
Junior Member
Username: Dogue
Post Number: 68
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 10:07 am: | |
Horsefly,
First of all I think Martin was talking about a 330 GT 2+2 at $40k, because a GTC like Frank has pointed out is worth a lot more. Secondly even though a 1964 330 GT 2+2 only cost $14k when new in todays money that is equal to about $80k (source: http://eh.net/hmit/ppowerusd/). And yes you could have sold one for approx. $135k in 1989(?) which of course would have been a great profit. You also have to consider that Enzo had died just a few years before the insanity of Ferrari prices and that contributed to the market prices. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 1193
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 9:33 am: | |
Martin, if you can find me a 330GTC for $40k that doesn't need $100k of work, let me know. A good condition 330GTC will bring $65K with a concours example worth $100k easy. |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member
Username: Irfgt
Post Number: 1731
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 4:46 am: | |
My car was perfectly driveable car when I purchased it, drove it 800 miles home. When you own a Ferrari IMHO people expect to see a perfect car and not one with faded paint and cracked seats no matter how old it is. Since I am a perfectionist I went overboard and attempted to make mine as good as or better than new and succeeded in many areas. If someone's standards are lower than mine then they can purchase a car with Issues and have a lot of fun with it but if your pride is on my level then the repair costs can and will escalate to the stratosphere. I could have purchased a fine 328 for what I spent on my car and all I created was a fine 308 and a bargain for the next owner. |
Kevin pang (Xerate)
New member
Username: Xerate
Post Number: 11
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 2:28 am: | |
John,
I have a 348 TS.
Let me tell you, it really doesn't quite matter to me whether if it is a 328 or a 348.
If you are saying that the car needs some touch-up and repair here and there......you are asking for trouble.
WHY??
These guys are damn right, the repair works will lead you to a RE-PAINTED & RESTORED FERRARI (NICE!) with a very uncertain future of what's gonna break next (base on your description)!!!
Think smart and think hard.....for you do not want to drive in fear and uncertainty.
If I were you, I would really pass that "FiXin IdeA" and look for another decent condition Ferrari (if you are struggling to cough out for the Spyder)
Sometimes....it does takes more time to find the right one, but it can take forever to repair if found the wrong one!!
Lastly....it is an agony to know that you've got a Horse that can't Prance (even worse, a Garage Stallion)
Give it a good thought!!
Cheers to all Ferrarians! |
Christian (Christiank)
Member
Username: Christiank
Post Number: 387
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 08, 2002 - 12:16 am: | |
John:
Buy that 328. You really want to. But we told you, paint 5 to 10 K, interior plus parts missing: 5 K, other stuff: 3 to 5 K. And then you will have a repainted 328 with no history and high mileage. Hey, that sounds like fun, go for it, you don't know what you are talking about! |
Doug Meredith (Doug308)
Junior Member
Username: Doug308
Post Number: 176
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 10:05 pm: | |
Ed
You forgot to mention that you are a mechanic and do all of your own work. The average person would probably spend many $1000s more than you spent.
Whether it's Ferrari, Porsche, Jaguar, Aston....find the style that "you" like and buy the best example that you can afford. Period.
Don't buy one because it's faster or someone else like the style better and says it's better. Don't buy a red car because people say it has the best resale. You are then buying on speculation and in the end you will have less of a chance of enjoying your Ferrari experience. Buy the style that you like in the color that you like and you will be the happiest. But definitely buy the best example that you can afford. As they say..."you pay for what you get"..sometimes less and sometimes more. |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member
Username: Irfgt
Post Number: 1729
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 8:14 pm: | |
The only problem with a vehicle needing work is that a thousand here and a thousand there is like a Monkey pissing on the cash register, pretty soon it's going to run into some money. Also once you get started you are committed. You will have already have spent "X" number of dollars and you find that it needs this and then that and you keep spending and then you pass the point of no return as I did. I spent a fortune restoring my car and have been unable to recoupe anywhere near the amount that I could have purchased a car that needed less. I have been there and done that. |
John L. Jordan Jr. (Up2nogd)
New member
Username: Up2nogd
Post Number: 4
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 7:48 pm: | |
Thanks for the offer Horsefly but after what they found today I believe I'm going to roll the dice -- I don't think I gave this much consideration to my wife???? (by the way - she doesn't read this forum!) |
Horsefly (Arlie)
Junior Member
Username: Arlie
Post Number: 137
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 7:39 pm: | |
Come on John, go ahead and help me prove my theory. Throw some raw meat to the timberwolves! Post the name and number for that 328 if you aren't "hungry" enough for it! |
John L. Jordan Jr. (Up2nogd)
New member
Username: Up2nogd
Post Number: 3
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 7:32 pm: | |
Hey Guys,
Thanks to "all" for the information -- I must admit that this by far is the most active forum that I have been involved with. Even though you may not all agree on the same course of action, it is apparent that Ferrari enthusiast are really willing to help -- "Thank You!". To add a little fuel to the fire - I had the 328 checked out today and the Running Gear turned out to be in very good condition - The car needs a Clutch and a Service. Hmmmmmm, I don't know guys but for the money it may be hard to pass on this one?
|
Horsefly (Arlie)
Junior Member
Username: Arlie
Post Number: 134
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 6:07 pm: | |
Martin, Thanks for the comments, but I am wondering about something. Take your examples of the 250GTE, 330GTC, etc in the $40,000 range. Isn't that today's prices? If you had bought those cars in the early 70s, what could you have sold them for at their peak value in the late 80s? I think that you could have made a bundle of money. I don't have any of my late 80s Hemmings on hand to see what the asking prices were back then on Ferraris specifically, but I know that Corvette (and other collectible car) prices were insanely high and people (nobody that I know) were actually buying and selling them for outrageous amounts back then. I remember just a few days ago (under the GARAGE IDEAS thread?) that somebody mentioned that they had turned down $400,000 for a Daytona some years ago when the feeding frenzy was at its peak. I'll bet that car sold for $20,000 back in the 70s. What a profit potential!!! I am not a profiteer myself, just a bottom feeding car buff. But I still think that if John posted the name and number of that rough 328, it probably wouldn't last long. And I don't think a buyer would ever lose any money if he had to bail out and resell it. Just throw it on E-bay and watch the feeding frenzy. Just my 2 cents. |
neal ezra (95spiderneal)
New member
Username: 95spiderneal
Post Number: 8
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 5:21 pm: | |
i have a 348 spider that i love. its reasonable every day driver and does well on the track also. i couldnt stand the cheese grater sides either so i just got a black one and you dont even notice them. to me, its the ultimate exotic thats somewhat practical and affordable.
since the 328 is a targa why not look at 348 targas that are similar in price to yours. just be careful of early 348's that had a poor suspension and exhust. theres lots of info around on which 348's to avoid.
good luck |
Terry (Dogue)
Junior Member
Username: Dogue
Post Number: 67
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 5:05 pm: | |
I take my comment about bargain Ferraris back, Edward is correct. The only bargain Ferraris are 308 GT4s, 308 GTSi (2v), Mondials and 330 GT 2+2s all in great condition will be bargains. The (2v) 308 is the only one of the three that doesn't have some odd styling cue. Mondials are great if you can get by the rumored electronic problems and everyone asking what year your mustang is. 308 gt4s are beautiful in my opinion, but many hate the bertone styling. My DREAM Car is a 4-headlight 330 GT 2+2, but many people think it is plain UGLY. The 308 is the only one of the 4 that "most" people agree is a beautiful design it just lacks power compared to most other Ferraris. |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member
Username: Irfgt
Post Number: 1722
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 4:34 pm: | |
Or you could buy my 82 308 and not have to do anything except smile and drive. |
Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member
Username: Miami348ts
Post Number: 2594
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 4:16 pm: | |
Arlie,
as much as I agree to some respect with that thought it has also another side:
If you use your money in any other investment for that period of time you can make a similar amount of money (3-4 times over 10-20 years). Then also add the storage cost or cost of space for the car for 20 years.
ON the old Ferraris, well those were one of a very limited number cars. All the major constructed cars are still worth little. Take a 1963 250GTE. close to 1000 built, classic lines (I love that car) and still only $ 40K worth. I had a chance of buying one in original paint and condition for $30,000 [still banging my head on the wall]. The later 330GTC are $40,000, the 365 is $40,000 and the Dino 308GT4 is $15,000.
If you want one to keep and store away, here is my Dino 208GT4 for $ 4,000, how about it? |
Terry (Dogue)
Junior Member
Username: Dogue
Post Number: 66
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 4:12 pm: | |
Horsefly, that is interesting you would take that position. I don't know John's intention for the car, but I would bet that he wants to drive the car and be proud of the car. From the discussion to get a car back to presentable condition it would cost him more than a very good example. And with your math saving for the better car would only increase his profit that much more. I don't know the future and you could be right about selling a 328 for 5-10 times what you paid for it in 20 years, but I for one don't want to have garage space taken up by a Ferrari I cannot or am ashamed to drive for 20 years when in a year or so I can have a Beautiful example that I can enjoy for 20 years and then sell it for 5-10 times what I paid. Bargain Ferraris are neglected ones and for those of us that want one to drive and not park in a garage for 20 years I would pass on this 328.
Frank,
I am not saying that a 328 is equal in all areas of a 348 at all. The 348 was a huge step for Ferrari in technological advances. I could be wrong, but a water pump replacement will require an engine removal in a 348. I like the 328 because of its reliability and if want to you can work on it yourself. Not to say that no one can work on a 348 themselves, but it is more difficult and requires more sophisticated tools.
A 348 is better, it is faster, looks more modern, more expensive, better gas mileage. It also is more expensive to repair and has a reputation for having poor build quaility and many other problems (mostly concerning early model years).
Given the budget of $35K which John stated he could pay now and has the immediate ITCH for a Ferrari. A 308 or 328 is not far off the mark a 348 Spyder is almost twice his budget.
Just my Opinion. |
Horsefly (Arlie)
Junior Member
Username: Arlie
Post Number: 133
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 3:14 pm: | |
By all means, don't bother with any beater classic car, Ferrari or otherwise. Don't do like people did 30 years ago. You know, buying those worthless old worn out 1967 427 powered Corvettes for $1000. Or those old beat up 1960s ex-racer Ferraris for OUTRAGEOUS prices like three or four THOUSAND dollars! Don't do anything stupid like buying that 328 needing work. If you do, you might have to just push it into a garage, not touch it for 20 years, and sell it for 5 or 10 times what you paid for it. Who would want to do a stupid thing like that? EVERYBODY, that's who.
I guarantee that somebody COULD buy that bargain 328 and could turn a profit on it years from now without doing a thing to it. I know a guy who turned down a complete running 1960 Corvette for $600 back around 1980 because it had a 6 inch long crack in the left front fender! He told me that there was no way he would pay THAT kind of money for a car with a big crack in the fender. That exact same car would probably sell for $20,000 today even with 22 years of neglect from sitting in a garage. My friend is still kicking himself. About 15 years ago, I started looking for Rochester fuel injection parts for early Corvettes. Everybody told me to IGNORE those incomplete fuel injection units with missing parts. "Buy a complete unit (at big $$$)" was their advice. I ignored them and bought any ragged parts unit I could find. At today's prices, I could sell any of my parts on E-bay for 3 to 10 times what I paid for them. My point is this: People always tell you to ignore certain cars or parts based on TODAY's market. But what about TOMORROW's market when that same car or part is worth 3, 5, 10 TIMES what it is today? I think that if you posted the location and phone number of that 328, it probably wouldn't last a week because more people would want to buy it than would want to pass it up. How many bargain Ferraris are out there? Something to think about. A Corvette friend of mine once told me, "You can ALWAYS sell good usable parts, (or cars) because there will ALWAYS be somebody somewhere that needs them". I think the same advice would apply to Ferrari. |
Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member
Username: Miami348ts
Post Number: 2588
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 1:36 pm: | |
now to compare totally correct you have to compare a 1988 1/2 328GTS with a early 1889 348TS to clear the age gap. From what some 328GTS owners think on this board the 328s price of that model year with 30,000 Miles is above $50K, well the 348 of the 1889 really as a TS model is right under $50K with the same mileage both 30K service done.
To compare the 1987 328GTS that Mr. Goodman has offered here with 30,000 Miles for $40,000 in good condition to the 1990/91 348TS I offer at $49,000 there is a $9,000 monetary difference but also a 4 year difference in age of car. Lets not even get into the engineering of the 308/328 models vs the 348/355 models. |
Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member
Username: Miami348ts
Post Number: 2587
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 1:30 pm: | |
These rumors are great. 348 will cost SOOOO much more to service.
The 30K service cost is parts plus 40 hours of labor. How many hours do you send on the same service of the 328? At least 10-15. So your savngs is purely in labor, which is 25h @$55 (at my mechanic)there is your $ 1,400 difference in service cost, or 4.6Cents per mile. For that you get 40HP more, better weight HP ratio, a modern injection and timing, a faster car by 15+Mph, better pick up speed 0-60 and a fully working AC.
All of that will cost $10,000 more than the older 328.
now if you want ot argue styling that is one thing but arguing the 348 is not the better value for $10K more you have to go back to school and redo your math classes!
The cheese garters are so bad of a styling that car makers till today try to immitate them (Mitsu Eclipse eg) |
Ron Thomas (Ronsupercar)
Junior Member
Username: Ronsupercar
Post Number: 227
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 1:14 pm: | |
You have to keep in mind that if the body and interior is not kept up, there may be a chance that the engine may not be as well..
Look for a better 328 or go for the 348.... |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 1190
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 12:28 pm: | |
Again, based on my personal experience I would go with a 348 over a 328 in the same condition every time. I put almost 20k miles on a 1986 328GTS that I bought from FAF with about 10k miles at the time of purchase. While the car was fun to drive/own, it lacked the pizzazz of a true exotic yet it suffered from all the quirks of one such as lack of interior room, poor a/c, uncomfortable seats, low ground clearance and expense of maintanance . The 348 Spider on the other hand looks more exotic yet has plenty of interior room, great a/c, comfortable seats and still has low ground clearance, While the cam belt service on a 348 cost more than a cam belt service on a 328, other types of services are the same. Brakes, tires, fluid changes, minor tune ups, ect.. are the same for both models. In fact, I have noticed than the interior parts for a 348 are less expensive than those on a 328. And , the performance differences between the two is greater than posted here by others. The U.S. spec 328 had 260 bhp @ 7000rpm while the 348 Spider, GTS/GTB and Comp. models had 312bhp @ 7200rpm. Thats 52 bhp that can be felt by the seat of the pants on the road or track. With the 328 GTS weighing 3164 lbs. compared to the 348 Spider's 3207 lbs., that gives the 328 a 1bhp/12.16lb ratio with the 348 having a 1bhp/10.26lb ratio. If you don't think that is a major increase in performance you can feel, I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you. Again, buy what you like, but drive both a 328 and a 348 on the same day and see what you think.` |
Terry Daniel (Dogue)
Junior Member
Username: Dogue
Post Number: 65
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 11:44 am: | |
I have a friend that bought a 1986 328 with some damage for under $30k and thought he could bring it up for a few thousand$. Well he has over $23K in the car trying to sort everything out and he is no where near having a car he could sell in today's market for $40k. His total investment $53k (so far). There are very few deals out there expect to pay what the current market is. If someone offers you a screaming deal, you will be the one ending up screaming. PPI is the key and find the best car you can afford. If your limit is $35k look at 308 QVs or wait till you can afford $40k for a 328.
328 vs. 348 - I would go with a 328 (I prefer the styling) the performance of the 348 is not that much better than a 328 (on the street) and the maintance is much cheaper on the 328. |
Ernesto (T88power)
Member
Username: T88power
Post Number: 530
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 10:42 am: | |
My oh my! Arent we defensive today! LOL
Ernesto
PS I wasn't even alive when the 365 was released! |
Christian (Christiank)
Member
Username: Christiank
Post Number: 386
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 10:29 am: | |
I wouldn't touch either of them as they both need work. Keep looking for a nice 328 GTS for around 40 K or buy the one from Martin for 45. Sounds like a great deal (no affiliation whatsoever). Make sure timing belts and service is done. |
David Jones (Dave)
Junior Member
Username: Dave
Post Number: 221
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 10:26 am: | |
John, no matter which model Ferrari you buy,
Don't rush in because you have the bug...
It might take you 6 months of looking before the right car comes along.
Dave Handa was right on the money...
Painting a 3-series Ferrari without doing any of the labor yourself could easily run up to 10 grand...
While I do love spyders, if it were me and those were my two choices. I would look for a very nice 1988 1/2 328...
The suspension on the late 88 328 is setup like the 348... You can take the top off and still get some air... Service on the 328 is a lot easier and less expensive than on the 348...
And while performance on the 328 is nowhere near modern, neither is the performance on the 348... You just have to decide if the extra 30HP you get from a 348 is worth the extra 25grand in price. |
ross koller (Ross)
Junior Member
Username: Ross
Post Number: 230
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 10:13 am: | |
drop the beater. only somebody who can control the costs himself (ie the garage owner) should go for that car.
if they were both in equal shape and costing around $40k and $67k respectively, i would go for the 348 spider. by that year, almost everything was sorted out. a spider will always be and retain greater value than the gtb or ts versions. it is more rare, (1090 produced vs 6068 for the 328gts), and at that price i don't think you will even lose much in depreciation over the next 10 years. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 1189
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 10:08 am: | |
Well, for an old fart like me the 308 defines a Dino. The 365 defines a Ferrari. |
Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member
Username: Wsawyer
Post Number: 393
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 10:03 am: | |
Frank: It's a generational thing. If you were using Clearasil when Magnum P.I. was hot the 308 defines Ferrari for you. |
Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member
Username: Miami348ts
Post Number: 2581
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 10:03 am: | |
with my fake british accent
"Pistols or swords, gentlemen?" |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 1188
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 9:58 am: | |
Ernesto, a 328 hardly has classic Ferrari looks. A 250, 275, 330 and 365 are classic Ferraris. Just which one of those does the 328 look like ? And the square tail lights of the TR and 348 was a return of the square tail lights of the 1940 and 1950 era Ferraris. They will be back. The side strakes served both an aerodynamic and legal purpose and are the most copied design of any other design of Pininfarina. And, while the front grill on the TR/348 may not have allowed air to pass through, it was not "fake" as it was designed to look like the egg crate grills of the older front engined V12s. So, it served it's designed cosmetic purpose, right ? After all, a lot of a cars design is for cosmetic reasons only. You wouldn't call the horse on the front and rear of a Ferrari fake would you ? Well, it's not a horse...you can't ride it...you can't even pet it. It's there for cosmetic reasons only. |
Ernesto (T88power)
Member
Username: T88power
Post Number: 529
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 9:43 am: | |
I would opt for the 328, as it has those classic Ferrari looks and not the temporary (thank God) side strakes, fake grills, and square tail lights of the 80's era, which were later phased put in future models.
But, buy a car in decent condition unless you are willing to spend lots of $$ and, most important, lots of your time on it. Find a nice 328 and pick it up until you are ready to move up to a 355.
Ernesto |
Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member
Username: Miami348ts
Post Number: 2578
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 9:32 am: | |
Also have a 1987 328GTS with 22K Miles on consignment for $ 45,000. Great deal!!! Great car! |
Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member
Username: Miami348ts
Post Number: 2577
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 9:31 am: | |
John,
I must agree to some resect with the previous posts. I have learned through my wife that a car that is abused is not a good car in any other respect as well. $25,000 for an abused 328 and then the early 1986 is too much IMHO.
As for the 348 Spider. These are great cars. At $67K for a 12,000 Miles car, ther eis something fishy. The 30K will cost you $ 6,000 if it is just the service. If there is more, well $$$.
For example. We have a 348 Spdier for sale 28,000 Miles with the 30K done also in prestine condition and TRUE Miles. This car is running super strong. I had put 600 Miles on the car in LA within a few days. Just a pleasure to drive. $ 69,900 will buy this car!
As another possibility look into a 348TS, just like the GTS 328 you have been looking at and priced just a little higher than the good 328s, you are get a very modern car. I have a 1990/1991 348TS with 34,000 Miles and we just did 30K service plus new clutch and other things (a total of $ 9,000 in service) and you can pick up this car for $ 49,000.
If you buy a beater, you will get a beater and you will be beaten! |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 1185
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 9:24 am: | |
Get the 348 Spider ! I had a 1986 328GTS and now have a 1994 348 Spider. The 328 pales in comparison to the 348 in all respects. My 328 only had 10k miles on it when I bought it but I still had to spend a lot of money to maintain it including a 30k belt service, new a/c compressor and a few other odds and ends. My 348 on the other hand has been bulletproof all but needing new tires and a battery. The 348 out performs, looks better, sounds better, is much more comforatble, has better a/c and is more fun to drive than the 328. The only advantage I can see to a 328 over a 348 is that the belt service is less expensive. But considering you only need to do it every 3-5 years, the extra cost is no big deal. That being said, buy what YOU like best and never finance a toy. |
Todd Gieger (Todd328gts)
Junior Member
Username: Todd328gts
Post Number: 57
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 9:09 am: | |
I have to agree with Dave L. Do your homework on a 328gts and you will have no regrets...I am only 2 mos new to mine and absolutely love it! |
Dave L (Davel)
Junior Member
Username: Davel
Post Number: 198
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 7:34 am: | |
There lots of 328's out there. Get a good one for 40k+ and dont look back. Check out the latest Sports Car Market review of the 328 and you will be a happy camper. Good luck |
John L. Jordan Jr. (Up2nogd)
New member
Username: Up2nogd
Post Number: 2
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 12:32 am: | |
Dave,
Thanks for the input -- You are right on target - I've gotta have it now! It's been growing for about 5 years and when my 6 year old found a pic of a nice 328 and ask if that was my new car-well -- of course I told her the truth and said NO! I'm trying real hard not to make a rookie mistake - but with all the cons and crooks how did you guys ever get into "nice" F-cars. It seems that many of the High End dealers sell cars with "Untold Stories" -- I appreciate your comments and honesty!! |
david handa (Davehanda)
Junior Member
Username: Davehanda
Post Number: 138
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 07, 2002 - 12:15 am: | |
John,not to burst your bubble, but I would stay away from the 328. These things can get real expensive, real fast. Assuming the mechanicals are good (you need to get a pre-purchase inspection to confirm that), those cosmetic things could be quite expensive, depending on how "correct" you want the car to look. But let's face it, if the owner trashed the inside and outside, why would you think he took care of the mechanicals? For example, original seat skins are about $1500-2000 for the set. Redying the console and door panels could easily cost another $600, that's to strip it down properly and not just mask it off, which can leave lot's of overspray. I nice paint job will run $7 to 10 k. If the dash or any instruments need fixing, that will be more $$$. It usually isn't worth it. I can see you easily getting into the high 30's and you can find a really nice 328 with 50k miles for that much. Heck there's someone on the Chat here with one for $40k that looks real nice. I'm afraid that buying a beater is a lost cause, and if you don't use original materials to fix it, will be difficult to turn later as well. I'd say wait, save a bit more and get a nice 308 QV, they are availble in the low to mid 30's. I would stay away from a 348 as a "first" Ferrari. The 94's are the best of the breed, but I know folks you have had a lot of problems, even with the 94's. Sure there are reliable ones out there, but you really don't want to take a chance on something that your are stretching to buy, then have to dump it because of unforseen problems with ECU's, bad alternators, or engine leaks.
You've have the "gotta have it now" syndrome, and man, be careful! I've been there... :-)
Good luck. |
John L. Jordan Jr. (Up2nogd)
New member
Username: Up2nogd
Post Number: 1
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 06, 2002 - 11:29 pm: | |
I was hoping that someone with a "clear" head could give me a little advise -- I have found two Ferrari that I am thinking of buying -- one is a 1986 328 GTS 51k miles that is in terrible shape -- needs paint, interior and a huge amount of TLC, -- running gear appears to be in great shape (being checked as i write this) however the price appears to be right $25k -- I am figuring that I can get a nice paint job, new interior and bring it up to snuff for aroung 5-10k = $30-35k -- the catch is that I can write a check for this car and fix it as needed. The other Ferrari is a 1994 348 Spyder 12k miles for $65-67k (plus a 30k service is due) perfect condition and just needs a new home -- As I have been told the 348 Ferrari are a bit more "picky" and difficult to own and further this one would require a great deal of financing (lease) - I am trying to determine which of the two would be the better buy?? I belive that I would much rather own the Spyder but all I can see is that damn Prancing Horse and cannot seem to make a logical decision between the two. Any input would be greatly appreciated. |