| Author | Message | ||
| Carl Gustaf Landin (Gustaf)
New member Username: Gustaf Post Number: 42 Registered: 9-2001 |
L.C, Sorry, I didn't see your post at first. Its true that the King got caught at around 130mph in Denmark. He was late for a royal wedding - what is the poor guy to do, he just had to floor it I guess. The Swedish highway patrols are quite strict. The legal limit is around 70 mph or so. If you are doing 80 and there is no traffic around they will not bother you. That said, they are quite predictable so everyone knows where they are. Last summer I raced with a Porsche 928 (350BHP) for about 70 miles or so with speeds that might even had scared the King. | ||
| Carl Gustaf Landin (Gustaf)
New member Username: Gustaf Post Number: 40 Registered: 9-2001 |
Kevin, If I were you, the first thing I'd do (after going for a very long drive in F50) is to order European spec clear lenses for the front lights. I really do hate the look of the orange ones that you guys have endure both on the 456 and on the F355. Is it illegal to drive without them? I saw an article in Cavallino about the F355 Serie Fiorano and it sported clear lenses so I guess its OK. Sorry that we all keep bringing up the F50 but its quite hard not to get excited about a car like that. | ||
| Khoa Phan (Downunder)
New member Username: Downunder Post Number: 3 Registered: 2-2002 |
Hey Kevin, Could you post some pictures of your F50, I don't believe I've seen it before. Two years ago, I took a road-trip between Sydney and Melbourne (about 700 miles) here in Australia in a 456GT. I travelled with my friend's father and my friend in their 456GT. For half of the 7/8 hour trip  I sat in the back seat, and I must say, it was comfortable enough if you sit their for 1-2 hour stints. Any longer, and I'd start wishing we took the S-Class Mercedes. I'm not sure about the modification on the rear seats, seems pretty small for any more than two. This was the original 456GT I'm talking about though, not sure about the M. I still crack a smile every time I think about the sound of teh Ferrari V12 at 5000-7000rpm. Woot! | ||
| Kevin Marcus (Rumordude)
New member Username: Rumordude Post Number: 11 Registered: 9-2001 |
The back seats in the 456 are certainly not huge, but i have actually had adults back there before as well. I usually drape a towel from the seat pocket in the back for the 5 year old - else their feet have a tendency to find their way up against the back of the chair. Without seeing the actual dimensions spec'd out, I would say that the overall roominess for the car with someone in both front and back is slightly better than a porsche. Separately, and not to change the subject too much, the f50 crate is indeed the hard top for the f50. The best analogy i have for it is that the f50 is like a big go-kart in terms of feel and handling, except that the way you sit doesn't affect the way the car handles like a go-kart. And, like I said before the 456 prices are pretty cruddy, but I don't really udnerstand why. There's a big difference in price between the 456 and the 456M also - and the ferrari market letter only tracks the 456 - which shows nearly a 20% drop in 6 mos prices. Speaking of, it seems like there are a lot of F40's coming up for sale and no F50's. Could it be because of the fx due sometime early 2003? | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
New member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 49 Registered: 2-2002 |
What are the back seats like? Can someone over the age of five actually fit back there? Looks pretty tight to me. | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
Junior Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 246 Registered: 11-2001 |
I was at the former Ogner Motors this past Sunday, and they had a red 456, with an automatic, for sale outside. I my opinion the 456 is a very sophisticated car. This is the kind of car you would go to a ball in. The kind of car "Old Money" drives. I know the depreciation of these cars is pretty bad, and I hope that plays into my favor. Soon as they get down low enough, like in the range of a TR, and I have the means to do so I would like to get one. Speeking of the former Ogner Motors, the new owners really stocked up on Ferrari's. They had loads of them. At least twenty out front, there where several 360 spiders and a couple of Modena's. A few 355's, a very nice 550 Marinello. Ah yes and an F40 in the show room. The owner told me that they had more in the back lot. Also did you guys hear that Ferrari Beverly Hills got shot up? Yup it sure did, was on the evening news. I don't know the details. I just saw the "coming up" tease, showing the windows shot out with the glass every where, right before they went to commercial. | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 317 Registered: 7-2001 |
These cars must've dropped a lot in price lately. Check this one out.. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1814964035 | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Junior Member Username: Manu Post Number: 112 Registered: 2-2002 |
They look awesome in black - decidedly menacing and they've got a hell of a lot of road presence. I can imagine there would be times when you'd feel slightly embarrassed driving the other Ferraris in the range but not this one.....Gorgeous and classy. | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
New member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 50 Registered: 3-2002 |
I agree that the 456 is a beautiful car. I wonder if there is a problem with sales because Ferrari seemed to produce three new models in almost rapid-fire succession. They have the 456, 550 and the 360. Of the three, I would say that the 456 comes off as the more benign-looking. It uses almost a "heritage" type of styling, while the other two look more aggressive. I think it's great that they have a variety in styling. Who knows--20 years from now the 456 could turn out to be the most collectible of the three! | ||
| L.C.Plester (Lcplester)
New member Username: Lcplester Post Number: 12 Registered: 2-2002 |
Carl Gustaf, I read from Finnish newpapers (was propably 2 years ago) that the King had broken the speed limits and driven something like 220km/h (?) because he was in great hurry! He got a ticket if I remember correctly. I usually drive above the speed limits in Sweden, but I�ve heard the Swedish police are very strict about drivers not breaking the rules. Is this correct? Regards, LC | ||
| Kevin Johnson (Jammy)
New member Username: Jammy Post Number: 4 Registered: 3-2002 |
There is a description of a track drive in the F50 in Aprils' edition of AutoItalia. The short answer is yes, you are aware that the engine is a structural member. "Not only can you hear things whirring away behind you, you can feel them". Exciting car, and apparently if you put the hardtop on, the sound inside is "incredible", which may explain why most of these hard tops stay in their boxes... Another item of interest is that, not only does the new edition of Classic & Sportscar have an article celebrating the 10th anniversary of the 456, you can also buy Schumachers' official company car used from 96-99. A silver 456GT, LHD, 16,000Km (I recall) and yours for �150K. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 581 Registered: 6-2001 |
Im a big fan of the 456 too, especially the styling. Yesterday at Miller Motorcars, Warner said that it was pininfarina's favorite design. I sat in one and it definately felt well put together and very comfortable. It didnt have all the features and amenities as a benz, but i dont think people who buy ferraris are concerned with those types of things. I was amazed with how big the rear seat was. the guys at pininfaria did a good job making the back of the car smaller than it really is. You should post some pics of the 456 next to the F50. BTW, whats it like driving the F50? Can you notice that the engine is a structural member by the way it handles, vibrations, etc. | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
New member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 47 Registered: 2-2002 |
Classic & Sports Car Magazine has an article on the 456 in this month's issue. I just saw it on the newstand. | ||
| Ernesto Sgroi (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 274 Registered: 2-2001 |
OK, Kevin, what's up with the F50 crate behind the 456? I assume thats the box for the top. Hmm.... Love the 456 by the way. Long trips have to be a blast in that thing!! Ernesto | ||
| Kevin Marcus (Rumordude)
New member Username: Rumordude Post Number: 10 Registered: 9-2001 |
I think there are some interesting things regarding the 456. First, the ferrari market letter only shows the price index on the 456, but not 456M - and it shows the worst drop in price. So that looks bad if you don't see the difference. Next, on the track, sorry - the car isn't competitive. Actually, it's not really pleasant. The handling it tight, and it does brake/accelerate, but it's just not all that. And the GTA is dangerous: If you're doing, say 80 or so in 3rd gear, and drop it to 2nd - but the RPM's would be too high to go into 2nd (i.e. would be above readline) and you start breaking (or if you were slowing down and shifted down too soon), when you reach the speed that it could drop into 2nd with maximum rpm's permitted by the rev limiter - it will shift for you - smart for the engine management, but hellishly dangerous for the driver since it has a tendency to lock the back wheels and send you for a spin... However, on the road - for a long ride - it is quite fun. And I think the car is actually quite mature in appearance. Most of the people i work with who drive the lexus/mercedes/bmw flock find the looks of the 456 to be most attractive - more so than the 360s, 550's, etc - because it's not really that exotic looking. But, I can throw the kids in back. And drive. For awhile. And everyone is happy.    | ||
| Richard Stephens (Dino2400)
New member Username: Dino2400 Post Number: 42 Registered: 10-2001 |
The 456 would be the modern Ferrari I would buy as well. I like old cars for fun but if I had a Ferrari for long roadtrips, that would be the one. Do they make it with the F1 type shifting yet? If so, even my wife would like to drive it. That might be the safe way to go - I don't like the idea of anyone who isn't totally familiar with the car driving a manual transmission of that cost! But with automatic and F1 I would let anyone take a turn in the driver's seat. | ||
| Kevin Johnson (Jammy)
New member Username: Jammy Post Number: 3 Registered: 3-2002 |
Gustaf, I put a Koenig system on mine a couple of weeks ago. Not as bassy and loud as a tubi, but 2-3x as loud as the original system and with the same sound quality. Sounds fantastic. Especially (for some reason) on a petrol station forecourt; you know, those with a roof over the petrol pumps. That metallic whirr before it explodes into life, reverberates all around you. Gives me goosebumps. | ||
| Carl Gustaf Landin (Gustaf)
New member Username: Gustaf Post Number: 37 Registered: 9-2001 |
Great stuff guys! I think that the service costs might vary a great deal depending in which country you are in. From what I have gathered we have it pretty good here in Sweden (for example: $2k or so for a timing belt on a TR). I'm not sure from where I got the "Le Mans blue" from. I meant Tour de France. Is there such a thing as Le Mans blue? Bret, I really agree with you. It was when I saw it being driven that I realised how awesome it really is. And that SOUND! I don't think you can ever get fed up with the sound of that V12. Has any of you fitted a tubi system to your cars? Maybe that goes against the "laid back" appeal of the car. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Intermediate Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2047 Registered: 2-2001 |
I think that pictures do a great injustice to the 456. I've only seen one once driving, going the opposite way as me on a small road. It was dark blue with tan, absolutely stunning. I've seen a number of 550s driving and they didn't even come close to be as striking a car when moving (forget 355s, 360s, etc). I would never get one, or at least can't see myself (obviously I'm biased towards sportier cars cause I'm younger), but it was a cool car to say the least. | ||
| Eric Hawley (Eric)
New member Username: Eric Post Number: 16 Registered: 8-2001 |
I spotted a Stramann cut 456 at the Monterey Historics last year. It was parked in the pits and I got a chance to look it over pretty well. I thought it was really well done, and not too bad looking. Not my cup o tea, but it looked very professional. I had a major service done on my 95 a while back, and it didn't require the engine to be removed. It's hard to say how much to cost, because several other things were done to the car at the same time. I'd guess around $5K - $6K (US) with no other work. | ||
| Kevin Johnson (Jammy)
New member Username: Jammy Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2002 |
Hi Gustaf, Ross, 3rd seat in the back (could be the next comedy series) I've heard many people consider this but have not seen it done. I've just been out to check and it looks feasible, running a seat over the centre console (in the M) or turning the armrest into a jump seat. The seatbelt may be more of a problem. I suspect the best option would be a company specialising in classic cars because they frequently have to fabricate new bits and put in seatbelts where there were none previously. The company that springs to mind in the UK is Cambridge Motorsport, but I suspect a leaf through Classic & Sportscar would yield a few more. Running costs In the 18 months I have had a 456M, I have only had one problem with it, when the battery in the alarm siren died. This was replaced under warranty, and could have been avoided if I had had the car on a trickle charger, as I do now. Costs so far have been ca. �1K for a standard service at Maranello Sales. I don't know if this is representative, but it is my experience. After the first, services are every 12,500 miles or every year, whichever is sooner. The next service, due shortly, is a cam belt (every 3 years). I'm not sure if this is an engine out job (believe not). Independents cost this at ca. �1k, but am expecting the total cost to be �2-3K. It does 12-14mpg I guess, and costs ca. �1k to insure on a 5K limited mileage policy with ClassicLine. However, the major cost, by far, is depreciation. Out-accelerates most other cars on the road in this respect too! Yer pays yer money, yer takes yer choice.. | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
New member Username: Ross Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2002 |
i am also a fan of the 456 gt, and am thinking of getting one for my wife (ok, its for me but this ruse allows me to get permission to spend more money on another ferrari). we have 3 kids, and i was wondering if it was possible to modify the back seat to make the middle area into a jump seat for the smallest one (age 4). anybody seen something like this before or know of somebody in the uk that can do it? | ||
| Carl Gustaf Landin (Gustaf)
New member Username: Gustaf Post Number: 35 Registered: 9-2001 |
Thanks for the feedback guys. I knew there had to be a few lucky owners of the 456 here on the board. It would be great if anyone could tell me about the more mondane details such as servicing intervals and costs compared to say a 360 or a 355. Do you need to lift out the engine when changing timing belts? Surfing the web I have seen pictures of Stramann convertible conversions for the 456, has anyone seen one of these up close? What did you guys think of the 456 Venice convertible, as featured in the November issue of Forza . | ||
| Peyman (Peyman)
New member Username: Peyman Post Number: 10 Registered: 1-2002 |
The 456 is a very beautiful car and has very classy lines. It is a "modern classic". therefore specially in the U.S. where most sport car enthusiasts seek more exotic lines this car does not appeal to them. So as we all know when the demand goes down so does the price. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Junior Member Username: Whart Post Number: 158 Registered: 12-2001 |
It is nice to be king. I've spent alot of time in Stockholm over the past 6 years and have rarely seen a ferrari on the streets there, let alone the king driving one. I agree about the aesthetic of the 456M; its market failure in the U.S. is largely attributable to its 2+2 configuration, which keeps it out of the hands of most boy racers; it is pricey, new, and depreciates heavily at least here in the States. Most of the people who have them here are enthusiasts who have already gone through some form of ferrari ownership, so they don't have to have a little red car with scudie badges to know what they are driving. Also when you get into the realm of bigger GT cars, there is arguable competition from the likes of Aston, Bentley, although drivablity wise i'm sure the ferrari is more of a joy to drive, the 2+2 configuration opens it up to a different type of competing (in the marketplace) car. regards. | ||
| Kevin Johnson (Jammy)
New member Username: Jammy Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2002 |
I have had a 456M GT for about 18 months now and it was my first Ferrari. Like many owners, it's easy to get evangelical about this car, and in my opinion, it is the best car on the planet. Period. Claims that it is too impractical to use every day make me smile, since it is easily the most practical Ferrari and way more practical than a 911. I carry my friends and colleagues around in it, and have used it for long weekends away with my missus, two small kids, car seats, buggys and associated kit. It's also fantastically well put together. Everything is solid and the cabin has a real sense of occasion; you know you're in something special. Manu is absolutely on the money in this regard. It overshadows the 360 Modena I have next to it in the garage. In comparison, the 360 feels flimsy, and built to a price rather than a specification. The 360 makes sense when you take it out for a flat out blast, like I did this morning. But if I have to go somewhere, I'll take the 456. | ||
| Kristoffer Hansson (Maverick)
Junior Member Username: Maverick Post Number: 51 Registered: 3-2001 |
I saw King Carl Gustaf with his 456 last summer, driving it on the S�der M�larstrand in Stockholm. In front of him was his usual escort consisting of two police officers in a Volvo 960. It must be very boring to be supervised all the time. Also, he cannot step on it whenever he feels for it because he must not outrun the other cops. Being a king has its price. I wouldn�t want a life like that. Most of the cases, its really nice being "nobody". | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Junior Member Username: Manu Post Number: 103 Registered: 2-2002 |
From what I've been tod, the 456GT is effectively a Rolls Royce......with a typical Ferrari V12. Desinged to tempt people away from Bentley Turbos and the old Aston Martin Vantages. It is first and foremost a luxury car BUT any car with a Ferrari V12 up front is going to be a very serious driving machine. It looks fabulous and will thrash the hell out of a Porsche 911 whilst delivering you to your destination in absolute luxury! | ||
| Eric Hawley (Eric)
New member Username: Eric Post Number: 15 Registered: 8-2001 |
I own a 95 456GT, 6 speed, and agree with Carl that this is the most beautiful car made. I've loved the looks of the car ever since I saw the first sneak previews of it, and lusted after it for years. I finally caved and bought one 2 years ago, and can't imagine being without it. I've driven mine on several long trips (over 3500 miles twice) and used it as a daily driver to commute in. I've also had it on the track a few times and in all cases, have to say the car is just a dream come true. It's not a sports car in the bugs-in-your teeth sense, or most any other sense for that matter. Then again, there are darn few sports cars out there that can keep up with it...  | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 306 Registered: 7-2001 |
If I had the means, I'd have a 456 as my daily driver. I agree it's gorgeous. But I wouldn't want one for a 'weekend' car. | ||
| Kendall Kim (Kenny)
New member Username: Kenny Post Number: 25 Registered: 9-2001 |
Most people who purchase Ferrari's view it as a weekend "fun" car and already own an everyday car or fortunate enough to have an everyday driver like a Porsche 911.. The 456GTM however is geared towards someone who already owns a couple sports cars or maybe even fortunate enough to own several Ferraris, and wants a long distance cruiser with the sporting character that Ferrari's deliver with the comfort and space to carry other passengers and luggage.. Unfortunately, the 456GT M is too expensive and impractical for daily use yet not very desireable if it serves as your primary weekend sports car when a convertible or 2 seat sports car is more fun.. | ||
| Scott A. B. Collins (Scott)
New member Username: Scott Post Number: 21 Registered: 6-2001 |
Can only comment about demand. Several authorized dealers have told me that they are required to take 456's to get 550's. They also commented that they often sell that at a loss, just to get them off of the showroom floor. I do agree, they are beautiful cars. | ||
| Carl Gustaf Landin (Gustaf)
New member Username: Gustaf Post Number: 33 Registered: 9-2001 |
As I was driving home this afternoon I saw the Swedish King Carl Gustaf XVI (his name really is carl gustaf) coming thundering down the road in his Le Mans blue 456 GT M with tan interior and I just realised that this is without competition, I guess this is somewhat subjective, the prettiest Ferrari since the 275 GTB/4. Why is the demand for the 456 so low? I have heared that US. dealerships are having problems selling them. I have not met anyone here on the board who has one or even knows anyone who does. It would be great to hear from people who have had experience from these beautiful cars, since I think that this might be our next sports car after our 993 C4S. If you could tell me about service costs/intervals and any well known pitfalls. |