| Author | Message | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Junior Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 211 Registered: 2-2001 |
My .02 on this one: Quite likely a knucklehead or two can be found in pretty much any occupation. People need to keep their fridges full. Some people are willing to do so with a little less grace than others. Oh, and in a non-homogenous society (to wm's point), common sense cannot be common. Resolution? Only from a (like-minded) society praising those with pride who work for a living (think U.S. 40 years or so ago) and frowning on fortunes garnered through litigation based on hurt feelings, stubbed toes and the consumption of too many cheeseburgers (caused by "negligence"). That said, curbing prevailing laziness and arriving at an acceptable standard of conscience might be a while in the making. And so putting some sort of sensible cap on "punitive" damages (not based on the size of the pockets of the defendant, for example) might be a decent interim step. Or, L. Ron forbid, perhaps we punish more based on intent? There's a fair chance my bank account might be a bit bigger if I were the litigious sort (I'm sporting a permanent bump and bruise or two based on the slip-ups of others), but I wasn't raised that way. As this might relate to FChat (or DinoChat)? Keep in mind driving a Ferrari (and the associated social profiling that comes along as standard equipment) in today's society might make one a ripe target for some government (society?) sanctioned extortion and subsequent re-allocation of wealth. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 465 Registered: 12-2001 |
I've been practicing law in NYC since 1981, as a specialist, and it saddens me to see the profession corporatized to the point where the main emphasis is always on business. Granted, you can't take cases for free all or even alot of the time, but that's not what the problem is: there are, suprisingly, still a number of good young lawyers, from good law schools that go into some form of public service, whether its to get experience, or to "do good." Most individuals can't really afford the cost of "first tier" legal services, partly because of how firms are structured to make money; that is not to say that you can't get a good local lawyer (some are superb), but if you wanted to hire Cravath, or any other robber baron firm, you just probably couldn't afford it/or it wouldn't be worth the cost, given the value of the matter. Most lawyers i meet, even the obnoxious ones,the underqualified ones, etc. want to do good, and think they are, within the constraints of the system. Believe it or not, our system doesn't suck because our laws aren't harsh enough; we live in a violent, non-homogenous society (i'm not saying that's bad-the point is countries like Sweden are mostly made up of people with the same background, religious and social beliefs,etc), which is amazingly litigious, and since money is our cultural religion, it is not suprising that our legal system centers on that. We aren't as "socialized" as some euro-countries in the sense that services, and to some extent behavior, are "regulated" by the government, but at the same time, we have a mentality that leads to every interest group and "victim" whether or not the issue is real or significant, taking up court and legislative time to regulate conduct.And, because there are rewards for parties and lawyers in engaging in this process, it almost becomes an end in itself (public acclaim,book deals, more business, etc.) EG, Larry King was interviewing a young woman the other nite whose face was destroyed, i assume, by some act of human violence; i wasn't really paying attention to the program, and i'm sure she had important things to say, but the idea of an hour long national/international interview on such subject makes me wonder whether we have our priorities straight. Point is, (and this is not meant as a "society made me what i am)" our legal system is a reflection of our culture. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2992 Registered: 2-2001 |
Well said Tommy. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Junior Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 223 Registered: 5-2001 |
I would like to say this; We can say what we want about lawyers but we really only hear about the really bad ones. They're not all bad and like a cop you may hate them one day but when you need them you can't have a better friend. To all the "good" ones, Thank you very much. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2986 Registered: 2-2001 |
Don't do that Ed, you have worked hard enough. LOL, Regards, | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Junior Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 225 Registered: 4-2002 |
No, actually the lawyers I despise are the ones who pass legislation protecting the insurance companies and screwing people, clog my business with worthless regulation that in effect protects the large corporations that contribute to political campaigns while screwing the little guys. I also dont like the lawyers to pursue frivolous lawsuits that raise insurance rates for all of us, beg people to sue for every small reason they can dream up and in general promote an attitude that America is a place where nobody is individually responsible for their own actions. I dont harbor any true malcontent toward someone I meet who is a lawyer. I treat every individual with respect and the assumption that they are honest and caring people. I also recognize the truth that without lawyers to help people challenge and work through our legal system to obtain justice we would be lost and that lawyers are needed to frame and protect the constitution. However, it appears the lawyers themselves are less interested in this than in how much it pays. The same lawyer who fights this week to protect someones particular right may fight next week against someone to defeat the same right, depending on who is writing the check. YES, there are honorable lawyers and they are indeed a critical part of our system and way of life. I also fully understand that it is the actions and attitudes of the very few who color the profession in this manner and that is unfortunate. I have known many lawyers and have 2 good friends who are lawyers. One is in real estate law the other in criminal defense. The criminal defense guy and I have some great conversations and arguements. Anyhow, please dont think Im some rabid nut who automatically hates anyone who is a lawyer, thats silly. Oh yea... I do have tremendous respect for lawyers who fight the insurance companies. It has been my personal experience that there is no more evil institution in this country than a medical insurance company. So, I will actually move my lawyer ranking up by about 3 rungs and place executives, managers and claims specialists with medical insurance companies on the very bottom of this wierd ladder. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1794 Registered: 2-2001 |
You mean to tell me I'm not an egotistical SOB? I guess I will have to work harder at it. | ||
| Lloyd Bemis (Lloyd)
New member Username: Lloyd Post Number: 26 Registered: 8-2001 |
Gee Terry, what have lawyers done to you other than to frame and fight to protect the constitution that protects your liberties from the tyranny of the government or the majority who may have views different from your own. Is it the lawyers that have drafted the commercial codes that have allowed your mortgage banking business to grow and prosper and keep your competitors from gaining an advantage over you by deceiving your potential customers into using them instead of your business that you hate? I am sure in your business you have many state and federal regulations to follow and this must be annoying. However, just as I am annoyed by traffic lights which regulate the flow of traffic, I recognize that without them there would be traffic anarchy. I cannot count the number of times that I have had clients come into my office and apologize for coming to see me and explaining that they are not the type of people who get lawyers and file claims. However, when the insurance company does not even want to pay their medical bills in a case of clear liability or a business has defrauded them they have few options. You know that the average person is ill equipped to take on Allstate or State Farm by themselves. Would you prefer them to take justice into their own hands through some act of violence or retribution? It would be great if we lived in a world where insurance companies, corporations and individuals all agreed on everything and there where no disputes. Well maybe it would not be so great as everyone might agree that all V8 Ferraris are Dinos, that the F1 transmission is better than the 6 speed and it�s crazy to spend $5,000.00 changing a car�s belts every four years. Dr. Cosgrove, Yes these are all urban legends. I have found nothing to support the existence of any of these suits. The first item on the list supposedly occurred in Austin, Texas, which is where I practice law. I know that this is a bogus reference, as no such case has been tried in Austin. Apparently this list was made up and sent out as spam with the sender being identified as a law firm which also does not exist. You can review the ATLA web site�s discussion of this very list at http://www.atlanet.org/homepage/debunk.ht . The ATLA also lists some humorous and true cases involving frivolous lawsuits brought by corporations such as the case where Hormel Foods, the maker of the luncheon meat SPAM, sued Jim Henson Productions to stop the creator of the Muppets from calling a character in a new movie "Spa'am." Hormel claimed that the "Spa'am" character represented an unclean, grotesque boar calling into question the purity and quality of its meats. After a full trial, a federal court judge recently rejected Hormel's claims. Hormel appealed, but also lost. See http://www.atlanet.org/CJFacts/other/frivolou.ht#anchor1118485 | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2985 Registered: 2-2001 |
You know Terry, You can't stereotype all Lawyers that way. However there is a lot of slime out there in that profession. I guess it's like saying all Ferrari Owners are egotistical SOBs. But we know with our posts on this chat line that isn't true. I know it really leaves you with a no respect kinda attitude for the profession I feel it also. As in all professions there are the good and the bad. | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Junior Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 222 Registered: 4-2002 |
Ugghhhhh dont even get me started on Lawyers. The Lawyer: What do you believe in? I dunno, who is writing the check this week? I rank lawyers on the ladder of respectability exactly 2 rungs from the bottom. Below lawyer is politician. The only thing below that is a lawyer who is a politician! I know there are of coarse exceptions, but it still seems that far too many lawyers are money hungry leeches sponging on society... I also think the tobacco lawsuits are complete crap. Sure the tobacco companies spike the cigarettes with nicotine and advertised that smoking would not hurt you, but GIVE ME A BREAK! You put smoke into your lungs, all the time, and you actually believe it wont hurt you. Right. I supposed you also think that drinking liquor all the time will help purify your liver and generally lead to a more healthy life. Also, is it illegal for tobacco companies to spike the cigarettes? I dont believe any law exists that says they cannot do that. Maybe Im nuts, but I dont believe the Government has any business legislating what anyone can or cannot do with their own body. Whether that be through direct legislation or civil law. People have a responsibility to manage their own lives and accept the consequences. That goes for smoking tobacco or pot, snorting coke or eating a Big Mac. Anyhow, just chalk me up as a completely insane political nutcase. The official label is Libertarian.  Hmmmmmmmmm perhaps I should note for the lawyers present that much of the above is very tongue in cheek. I dont want to get sued ;) | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Junior Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 227 Registered: 7-2001 |
My wife was a paralegal/legal secretary for 10 years until she couldn't take it anymore. The losers that would constantly call there (and she would have to screen the calls) would constantly ask things like, "I tripped and fell in the parking lot at KFC, is that something?" "I tripped in the yard in a pothole at the trailer we are renting...do I have a case?" She would tell me stories that would make your head spin! No, not all make it past people like her, nor do they go to trial too often, but it is an example of how opportunistic many people are today (at other's expense) and they think that there is nothing wrong with that. In fact they are treated as heroes in their interbred clans if they succeed. THE BLATZ IS ON EARL THIS WEEK!!! YEEEEE HAAAA! | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Junior Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 213 Registered: 5-2001 |
Lioyd, Are those cases listed on this thread really urban legends? I hope so. | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Member Username: Modman Post Number: 263 Registered: 11-2001 |
Well it is known we a lousy judicial system and people take advantage of loopholes and it will continue to happen. In anything you do you better have backup for what worse could happen. If laws here were as tough as other countries we would have better priviledges and less corruption. Eat or be eaten, this IS america and unfortunately that IS the way it IS and it will never change, so pitiful... | ||
| Lloyd Bemis (Lloyd)
New member Username: Lloyd Post Number: 25 Registered: 8-2001 |
It has always interested me that many of the same people who believe that jurors are easily fooled in these civil cases have no problem letting these same jurors decide to condemn a person to death in a criminal case. While the jury system is not perfect, it is incorrect to assume that juries favor the plaintiffs over defendants. I practice personal injury law in Texas and naturally keep track of jury awards around the state. These awards have trended far in favor of the defendants. In central Texas it is the defense attorneys who are requesting a jury trial while most plaintiffs would prefer to let a judge decide the case. It is my belief that this jury hostility to plaintiffs is based on �urban legends� such as those listed on this site. I also find it interesting that when ever the economy tanks and the insurance companies lose a fortune on their investments that they continually get away with stating that they need to raise their rates, not because of their failed investments, but because of antidotal reports of greedy lawyers and baseless lawsuits. And no one questions it because �every one knows� that lawyers are all greedy and most lawsuits are baseless. I, like most plaintiff lawyers, invest my own money to prosecute a case on my client�s behalf. I have done well, and it�s not by investing my money in ridiculous cases. For every nut that files a crazy case there are many more good people with real claims that lose their case due to a jury�s predisposition against the plaintiff due to these urban legends. Every day people with good claims lose, and a $0 verdict is not newsworthy so no one hears about it. Only the crazy ones, the ones that appear crazy on a cursory review or the urban legends get the press. It is the old newspaper adage that when a dog bites a man it�s not news, but when a man bites a dog now that�s news. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 2979 Registered: 2-2001 |
Guys, Just read these comments and see how "SAD" things are in this country. The laws have been twisted, bent, distorted, to a point that the laws are now made to help the crooks. PITY isn't it?????? | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 589 Registered: 6-2001 |
Guys: There is certainly some bull*hit lawsuits. Happen all the time. HOWEVER the sytem is weighted in favor of the defense. Usually we hear about these large verdicts, don't get all the facts, and assume the jury was bulls*ited. Generally not the case: usually the defense had hidden something that they omitted in their press release. The system works well. If we attempted to include attorneys fees for the prevailing party, the insurance industry would revolt (they are the primary reason why we don't award fees in tort cases). As a Plaintiff's lawyer I'd love an attorney's fee provision for auto accidents, etc. I'd make even more money. Art | ||
| Peter K. (Bubba)
Junior Member Username: Bubba Post Number: 98 Registered: 5-2002 |
I think we should all put up big disclaimer statements on everything we own, so that if some idiot gets hurt or killed in the process of trying to steal our stuff we won't be liable. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Junior Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 212 Registered: 5-2001 |
None and I mean NONE of those bullshit lawsuits would have occurred if this otherwise great country would implement a loser pays system. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1387 Registered: 6-2001 |
I hope that stuff is false. When i own a house im going to put a sign that says "Caution" in front of it. Will that waive me of all liability? If not, what will? | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 864 Registered: 8-2001 |
Too many lawyers! | ||
| Peter K. (Bubba)
Junior Member Username: Bubba Post Number: 94 Registered: 5-2002 |
It's the judicial system run amok. If genes are the cause, maybe they should sue their parents for giving them bad genes. Man, what is this world coming to?!?!? | ||
| Christopher McCormick (92_348ts)
New member Username: 92_348ts Post Number: 18 Registered: 6-2002 |
Andre, Thanks for the information. They were e-mailed to me by a co-worker and I assumed they were authentic. | ||
| Andre Vieira (Goggles_pisano)
New member Username: Goggles_pisano Post Number: 35 Registered: 5-2002 |
Christopher, you may want to check this site out since that information is false. | ||
| Christopher McCormick (92_348ts)
New member Username: 92_348ts Post Number: 17 Registered: 6-2002 |
You thought those were bad, read some of these. You have to love our judicial system..... Kathleen Robertson of Austin Texas was awarded $780,000 by a jury of her peers after breaking her ankle tripping over a toddler who was running amuck inside a furniture store. The owners of the store were understandably surprised at the verdict, considering the misbehaving little brat was Ms. Robertson's son. June 1998: 19 year old Carl Truman of Los Angeles won $74,000 and medical expenses when his neighbor ran over his hand with a Honda Accord. Mr. Truman apparently didn't notice there was someone at the wheel of the car, when he was trying to steal his neighbor's hubcaps. October 1998: Terrence Dickson of Bristol, Pennsylvania was leaving a house he had just finished robbing by way of the garage. He was not able to get the garage door to go up, because the automatic door opener was malfunctioning. He couldn't re-enter the house because the door connecting the house and garage locked when he pulled it shut. The family was on vacation. Mr. Dickson found himself locked in the garage for eight days. He subsisted on a case of Pepsi he found, and a large bag of dry dog food. Mr. Dickson sued the homeowner's insurance, claiming the situation caused him undue mental anguish. The jury agreed to the tune of half a million dollars. October 1999: Jerry Williams of Little Rock Arkansas was awarded $14,500 and medical expenses after being bitten on the buttocks by his next door neighbor's beagle. The beagle was on a chain in its owner's fenced yard, as was Mr. Williams. The award was less than sought because the jury felt the dog may have been provoked by Mr. Williams who, at the time, was shooting it repeatedly with a pellet gun. May 2000: A Philadelphia restaurant was ordered to pay Amber C Larson of Lancaster, Pennsylvania $113,500 after she slipped on a soft drink and broke her coccyx. The beverage was on the floor because Ms. Carson threw it at her boyfriend a moment earlier during an argument. December 1997: Kara Walton of Claymont, Delaware successfully sued the owner of a night club in a neighboring city when she fell from the bathroom window to the floor and knocked out her two front teeth. This occurred while Ms. Walton was trying to sneak through the window in the ladies room to avoid paying the $3.50 cover charge. She was awarded $12,000 and dental expenses. A man, was stopped by police in Vermont. After running his name, it came back that there were warrants for his arrest from Florida. Before the police could arrest him, he fled into a nearby forest (in the middle of winter). The police searched for him, but were unable to find him. Three days later, the suspect turns himself in to the police and was taken to the hospital with frostbite. He ended up having several fingers and toes amputated. He is now suing the police. Why? The police didn't look for him hard enough! He stated in an interview, 'If they had searched harder, they would've found me'. He's accusing the police of dereliction of duty leading to his loss of limbs. Mr Merv Grazinski of Oklahoma City. In November 2000 Mr Grazinski purchased a brand new 32 foot Winnebago motor home. On his first trip home, having joined the freeway, he set the cruise control at 70 mph and calmly left the drivers seat to go into the back and make himself a cup of coffee. Not surprisingly the Winnie left the freeway, crashed and overturned. Mr Grazinski sued Winnebago for not advising him in the handbook that he couldn't actually do this. He was awarded $1,750,000 plus a new Winnie. (Winniebago actually changed their handbooks on the back of this court case, just in case there are any other complete morons buying their vehicles.) and you wondered how OJ got off... Go figure, DO WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH OUR JUDICIAL SYSTEM, > OR WHAT??? | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Junior Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 211 Registered: 5-2001 |
This is a good arguement for a loser pays system. This lawsuit is only about how a few fat-f@*% crooks can transfer someone else's wealth to themselves. It's not about their health at all. It's about legal extortion. Period. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1768 Registered: 2-2001 |
The smoke is advertising. Did you guys know that at Walt Disney World at the Magic Kingdom when you enter the park the smell of Popcorn fills the air. You guessed it FAKE! The odor is actually sprayed into the air! I actually saw it on a Back Stage Tour. Worth the money to see that stuff too. | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 538 Registered: 3-2001 |
Tim, I ate a lot of McDonald's when I was 19 too. Like you, I was in incredible shape... McDonald's had no effect on me either (then). Now I'm 46. I think the Big Mac's are catching up with me. Just wait. Jack, you're right, Marlboro's poured in the nicatine to keep users coming back. But don't you think BK and McD's used fatty meat in excess.... couldn't they have used meat just a bit leaner? Maybe fat (or whatever else they may have added over the years) is just as addictive as nicotine??? Bottom line, both lawsuits are pure BS. Now on the other hand, this Ferrari thing is REALLY addictive.... any chance we can get a piece of that action??? :-) | ||
| Jack (Gilles27)
Member Username: Gilles27 Post Number: 542 Registered: 3-2002 |
I had to applaud the letter someone wrote last week to the Chicago Tribune. A self-admitted obese person wrote in criticizing these people. He admitted he was fat from overeating, and held noone else to blame. At least he SAID he was obese. Bob, the problem with the cigarette companies was that they intentionally developed and maintained levels of addictive nicotine. But then again, the fast food places pump their grill smoke out into the air. Dirty pool when you're hungry! | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1382 Registered: 6-2001 |
This law suit is rediculous. I dont think it can be compared to the ones against the tabacco companies because those companies supposedly knew that thrie product was deadly and went through great lengths to hide that fact. I personally eat mcdonalds and im not fat, in fact im lean and in amazing shape, but then again i work out every day, sometimes more. Chances are that their overweight condition is genetic anyway, and i bet thats how the fast food companies will get out of this. I dont really go to mcdonalds any more because one big mac has enough sodium in it to last a week. If i want a hamburger i just go outside and BBQ one up for myself, they taste better than fast food ones. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 449 Registered: 12-2001 |
In lawyer land, Ed that's called "Business Development," and at the large firms, usually involves coffee, pastries, fresh fruit, and at least an hour of unbillable time. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1767 Registered: 2-2001 |
They showed on TV a bunch of Lawyers around a table conspiring on how to go about this law suit. They actually sit around and figure ways to sue people. If that's the way you have to get business then I hope they starve. They give a black eye to their profession. | ||
| William Huber (Solipsist)
Member Username: Solipsist Post Number: 308 Registered: 9-2001 |
So what does have to do with Ferraris? Even if the crazed fat pig people win there lawsuits, they can't & won't fit into a Ferrari so thats more suffering for them. Maybe some obese freaks will try to file class action suit against Ferrari for making the car too low & hard to get in & out of. You wouldn't want to see someone throw out their back because a bloated stomach is in the way of the steering wheel. Sorry folk but thats my opinion. | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 537 Registered: 3-2001 |
This seems no different than the cigarette lawsuit. It's your choice to smoke cigarettes or eat a Big Mac. It's also your choice not to. Personally, I'm a Big Mac guy who doesn't smoke cigarettes. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 445 Registered: 12-2001 |
BTW, after they finish gorging, they get into the car (talking on the cell phone while driving, of course), spill really hot coffee all over themselves, and then head to the airport where are either refused seating, told to buy multiple tickets for their fat asses, or shoved in next to some poor shmuck who thinks airline food tastes good. Can the lawyers on this board count up the number of potential tort claims? Note that none of the examples presented here is merely hypothetical, but is based on real life "Justice" in America. | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member Username: Fred Post Number: 554 Registered: 2-2001 |
I hope some judge will throw that right out of court. What a joke. I think I will file suit against the company that made my mattress.(sp) It was too comfortable and caused me to over sleep and miss the 10:30 cut off for breakfast at Mcdonalds. Someone has to pay. It couldn't possibly be MY fault. | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Junior Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 219 Registered: 7-2001 |
I simply can't believe it. There are a bunch of overweight folks filing a class action suit against Burger King, KFC, McDonald's and Wendy's because they claim that the fast food that these establishments sell has deteoriorated their health and caused them to become obese. NEWSFLASH; the only thing that will combat obesity is...are you ready for this....STOP EATING SO DAMN MUCH!! A healthy diet and exercise are apparently foreign concepts to these people. Too many people in today's society want to blame someone , sue them and be on easy street. LAZY SLUGISH opportunists by my definition. |