| Author |
Message |
Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Junior Member
Username: 95f355c
Post Number: 212
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 7:22 pm: | |
Jack,
I eventually want to get into either FMazda or FContinental. I did some Skip Barber racing last few years. SRF was the most cost effective and safe way to learn racing. The other attraction as you know is the large fields of competitors. You always have someone to race with.
Our average fields have been about 24-26 cars. At the first VIR regional this past spring we had 58 cars take the green flag. What a rush!
Here in the Wash DC region (NEDiv as well) the FM and FC fields are much smaller. Once I have enough seat time I want to move back to open wheel racing.
Can you give me some feedback about FM and how you like it? There was recently some news that FM may build a newer car on a different chassis.
I tested a Formula Continental a few weeks ago and was blown away by the grip and cornering speed. Turn 3 at Summit Point Raceway is taken in 4th gear in a SRF and the exit speed at track out is about 85 miles per hour (about the same as a 355 Challenge car).
In the FC the telemtry showed an exit speed of 104 mph and that is with me driving at 9/10ths in a car I don't know well.
I guess each step up is a pretty big advance. My friend was there testing a Toyota Atlantic and his exit speed was 123 mph.
Thanks to everybody on this post who took the time to respond and give me some advice. I will stick with karts over the winter and maybe do some outdoor karting as well when spring rolls around. Plan to do a west coast school sometime over the winter.
Regards,
Jon P. Kofod
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Jack (Gilles27)
Member
Username: Gilles27
Post Number: 555
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 6:35 pm: | |
Jon, I crewed for two seasons in the CenDiv. My driver was mid-pack, but my purpose was mostly to get some experience to see which class I wanted to get into myself. Ended up in FMazda--I've always preferred open-wheel cars. |
G.Peters (Wfo_racer)
New member
Username: Wfo_racer
Post Number: 35
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 12:44 am: | |
Jim Hall has a great program. Sprint and shifter karts programs are offered. My friend and I attended several years ago, and could not believe eight hours went by so fast. Turn two on the configuration going away from the power plant is a blind corner and when the tires get some grip is a blast to hit it "WFO". |
Tenney (Tenney)
Junior Member
Username: Tenney
Post Number: 210
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 14, 2002 - 8:21 pm: | |
No personal experience w/Jim Hall's program, Jon. But have friends who went through the school and very much enjoyed it. They offer 80 cc shifters, I think.
Another good West Coast option is KRC (www.kartracingco.com). Located at Willow Springs, they feature 125 cc shifters. They offer rentals, school and have their own race series. The owner, Ryan Negri, is a good guy and a fairly decent driver (raced since he was a little kid, former nat'l champ and teammate of M. Schumacher and A. Zanardi on the factory Tony Kart team contesting the world championships). I've run with the KRC guys once or twice and would recommend them if ever you're out this way, Jon.
Specifics? Give Ryan a buzz at KRC and bend his ear a bit. He's a personable guy who'd likely be fairly forthcoming with some straight info re: shifters and stuff.
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Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Junior Member
Username: 95f355c
Post Number: 211
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 14, 2002 - 6:05 pm: | |
I guess I am looking at it from a cost and time standpoint. I have no illusions about becoming the next Schumi but I do want to improve my car control skills. I have found out where the faster guys get the extra 1/2 second per lap and it all comes down to driving the car at and over the limit from time to time and having the skill to bring the car back again. Some of the pro runners have the skill to take a car that is not properly set up and drive around the problem through superior car control. In my case the car must be perfectly setup for me to get anywhere near the limit and then it's a matter of doing a few laps and hope I don't screw up. With the fast guys it's on the limit (and sometimes over) for every lap without breaking a sweat.
Loading up my SRF on a trailer and having to drive a minimum of an hour or so and then having to worry about putting the darn thing in a wall (already done that twice this season) is what made me look at karts. We have a kart center about 10 minutes from where I live and they provide everything.
The other problem is that SCCA only provides practice days prior to race weekends so testing is limited. Most car clubs are hesitant to allow spec racers and open wheeled cars so my testing time is limited.
I agree, Art, that nothing teaches car controlm better than a kart. A friend of mine started racing karts at age 7 and at age 19 jumped right into a Formula Continental with no previous experience and won the National Championship the same year. The following year he dominated Toyotal Atlantic.
Tenny, you got that right. Darn Hoosiers are $240 a corner. Much cheaper to do karts.
Any of you have experience with Jim Hall's school?
Jack, how long did you crew with the SRF guys. It's a great class and very competitive. At our last "National" race the top 14 runners were seperated by less than 1.5 seconds and the total gap between 1st through 32 was only 5 seconds.
Regards,
Jon P. Kofod
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Tenney (Tenney)
Junior Member
Username: Tenney
Post Number: 206
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 14, 2002 - 12:01 am: | |
Bikes aren't a bad place to start, Art. John Surtees and Mike Hailwood are just a couple who transitioned well. Wardie's doing okay in IRL. I've a friend I kart with who is a former AMA Superbike racer who can get the job done.
Lot of vehicle control skills to be gained on a cycle, I think. Though also think it'll take the average guy (99.9%) a bit longer to become proficient (fast) on two wheels than four.
I sorta got the ball rolling in motocross (district 16 anyone?) and shifter karts are the perfect mix of bikes and cars for me. There's just more to do in a kart than a street car on a track. It's more entertaining to be busy at the helm for me. And in a kart I am. They couldn't be more fun to drive loose. And that's where the car control skills are gained, honed, or pretty much just come in handy.
I did indoor once a Stefan Johansson's in Indy. We raced in a team format and it was a blast. Wouldn't hurt a person's skills to run those a bit, IMO. Though sounds like a Shifter'd be more up your alley, Jon. Beware, they're addicting (but cost effective - think four tires for about the cost of a rear Hoosier). |
arthur chambers (Art355)
Member
Username: Art355
Post Number: 587
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 13, 2002 - 9:48 pm: | |
Jon:
Karting is the way to learn car control. The wheelbase is short, and when you get them loose, unless you REALLY know what you are doing, you have a hell of a time keeping them pointed in the right direction. All of the racers that I know have experience in Karts. Go to the Las Vegas kart track on a Friday when there is not CART race and the grid looks like a CART race. The Karts are more intense than the Indy Cars and the skills are transferrable.
Unfortunately I learned my skills on bikes, and when I started we weren't sliding both ends of the vehicle, only the rear.
I keep my Kart and use it almost two, three times per month. I have noticed that my skills get better and better with the Kart use. If you are e3ver in Cal, let me know and I'll show you the Sears Point Kart track.
Art |
Jack (Gilles27)
Member
Username: Gilles27
Post Number: 547
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 13, 2002 - 9:09 pm: | |
Jon, I crewed for a friend of mine in SRFords for a couple years, and can appreciate how competitive the series is. Karts are great for learning, but what you're doing is good for honing your "big track" skills. Karting has produced a lot of great racers, but since it's a training for race cars, my opinion would be to dedicate your time to the cars. I know of a lot of guys from FMazda who got into racing late--40s and 50s late--and have become very fast, top level SCCA racers. None of them had karting experience, they just got a lot of seat time. At this point, gokarts represent just one more thing you have to learn. I'm not trying to knock karts, but just suggesting that, assuming you're sticking with road racing, you focus on that. |
Andre Vieira (Goggles_pisano)
New member
Username: Goggles_pisano
Post Number: 36
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 13, 2002 - 12:46 pm: | |
You can always ask this guy who had someone put on a clinic at his local track...
maybe this should've been it's own topic... |
G.Peters (Wfo_racer)
New member
Username: Wfo_racer
Post Number: 34
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 13, 2002 - 12:58 am: | |
Karts are a amazing teaching tool. Some friends I know have started with shifter carts and have done very well.
Others have run non shifters for a couple of years to adjust themselves. Depends on how well you can digest the information the Kart is telling you. In our races, with grids of between 20 and 25 karts it's not uncommon to have less than one second between the pole and last on the grid. |
Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Junior Member
Username: 95f355c
Post Number: 209
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 13, 2002 - 12:45 am: | |
I know several posters on this board either race or drive go-karts for either recreational use or competition.
I started racing Spec Racers this past season in SCCA at the Regional and National level (hope to advance to the Pro Series eventually). I am still in the learning stage but the Spec Racer is a purpose built race car that is akin to a large go-kart with many of the same handling characteristics. It has become apparent to me that Spec Racers are not very similar to racing "tin tops" (production cars). I have limited experience with open wheeled cars with Skip Barber.
All the fast guys in Spec Racers (S2000, SRF, DSR, CSR, F500 etc) at the National and Pro level have serious karting experience. While I am realistic in that I will never match their skill (most have been racing since they were kids) I want to work on car control and get into karts. My aim is not to compete in karts but to improve my car control skills at a reasonable cost and in a safe environment.
I recently went to a local indoor kart track (Allsports in Sterling, VA) and did a half day in one of their karts. I wasn't overly impressed with the kart and was within 2 1/2 seconds of the lap record in no time. These are not shifter karts and they don't seem very fast.
My question is the following: can I learn anything driving these type of karts (read description of the karts they use below) or do I need to step up to something more serious.
Please keep in mind I have no experience with karts and no nothing of the different classes and various types of hardware avalibale.
"The chassis of our karts are made in Belgium by JB Racing, and they're equipped with 5.5 horsepower 4-stroke Honda engines"
More information on their website about the karts and the track: http://www.allsportsgp.com/formats.htm
Regards,
Jon P. Kofod
1995 F355 Challenge
1998 Spec Racer Ford #6
1988 BMW M5 Club Racer #44 |