| Author | Message | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 437 Registered: 5-2002 |
My other supplier can no longer get complete kits with jets and floats. He can only get kit #we-15 and might be able to get floats also but not in kit. If Ferrari kit still has jets sounds like good deal for $60.00. Then again there only jets. | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 433 Registered: 5-2002 |
Ferrari of Atlanta says they have some left. $60.00. My other supplier is cheaper. | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 432 Registered: 5-2002 |
I'll can give you the phone number of a guy who sells them with jets for $45.00. Ferrari kit #192.1154.05 also includes the jets. I dont know if it is still available .I havent order from Ferrari since 80's. I bet a dealer somewhere has some left in stock.I know part number is good. | ||
| Bill Sebestyen (Bill308)
Member Username: Bill308 Post Number: 316 Registered: 5-2001 |
Bruno, Weber rebuild kits do not come with jets. Jets are about $5 each. | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Junior Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 155 Registered: 5-2001 |
Yes, all hp claims are at the crank, so you need to calculate a 14-15% drive train loss. That is how I came up with the 214hp at the crank for my 78 308 GTS. The dyno shop can assist with that. We have dyno'd 308 carb and qv's here in Seattle, and they were all real close to the published specs of 205hp for carb and 230 hp for QV. This is for relatively stock cars with only minor intake and exhaust mods. Surprisingly, we did 3 carb 308's one day (FCA club dyno day) and I think all of them were way down on power for various reasons, carb jetting, distributor problems, etc. I would love to see the numbers on a early 2 valve FI 308 too! | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 428 Registered: 5-2002 |
The other question is how did Ferrari rate it. I doubt it was at the wheels.I doubt FCA would be posting 240 willy nilly.Also how a carbed car is tuned will greatly effect the dyno. I'm on it. I'll let you know what I find out. Now I got to know.Need to put a stock 80 on the dyno and see what is at the wheels. Also the Ferrari part number for the weber carb rebuild kit is the same for 77 and 78 and this kit contains the jets. Hum ???? | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1816 Registered: 2-2001 |
When it comes to selling an older Ferrari, the early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheeze. | ||
| Paul (Pcelenta)
Junior Member Username: Pcelenta Post Number: 68 Registered: 7-2002 |
'78 owners manual quotes 205... seems ferrari was all over the place with their hp claims one of my spec books shows 205@ 6600rpm and then quotes 255@ 7700rpm the proof is at the dyno...manufacturers always seem to be all over the place when it comes to HP claims... recommendations: buy a Carb car...if the cats and time-bomb POS GM airpump are still on (doubtfull) rip it off...rejet the carbs and set the cams to euro-specs and be on your way...obviously if you live in the Peoples Republic of California this isn't possible. | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Junior Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 153 Registered: 5-2001 |
Thanks Bruno, We will figure this one out, and after all, my info. could be wrong too.... But here are the differences on 78-79 cars: cams leaner jetting (125 mains versus 130)(euros had 135, I think) twin catalytic converters single air pump BTW, the euro carb 308's were rated at 255 hp, I believe... | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Member Username: 91tr Post Number: 929 Registered: 1-2001 |
The '78 (and later) 308 2-valves had the cats added and the cams (further) detuned (vs the '73-'77 US cars). The only 308-2 valve I'd be comfortable with saying "240 HP" is a standard (Euro) dry-sump -- JMO. | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 426 Registered: 5-2002 |
Also I checked the brochure and it is from Ferrari and is listed as shown in the book I have showing all factory brochures from the seventies. I will get the bottom of it. The dyno is ok but You would have to run my well tuned car on it to convince me. | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 425 Registered: 5-2002 |
Not to fight back but I got a book acknowledeging a misprint as to where some data was printed saying only 205hp. I will have to call my contact at Ferrari and see what he can dig up for me. What do you think changed to lower the hp between 77 and 78???? | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Junior Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 152 Registered: 5-2001 |
Bruno, not to beat you up too much, but that brochure is from the importer, not Ferrari. Ferrari's published materials all stated 205 hp for USA cars. See R&T article July 1978 "Ferrari 308 GTS" Curious though, that at the FNA website, they still quote the 240 hp figure for ALL carb cars. | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Junior Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 151 Registered: 5-2001 |
Bruno, the "sales brochure" is just that, sales. If you check the 1978 period car magazine tests, articles and such, you will see that Ferrari stated USA cars at 205hp(I believe even the owner's manual says 205hp). Ultimately, the dyno doesn't lie. Yes, I would agree that the carb car is still stronger than the early FI cars, Ferrari was probably a bit optimistic with the 81-82 power ratings... :-) | ||
| George Daina (Oof_n_goof)
New member Username: Oof_n_goof Post Number: 49 Registered: 7-2002 |
I always wondered what could be done to the QV.... to make more power...after driving my 68 vette, and then getting into the QV, it seems like I'm in a horse and buddy. Where can I get the pipes to eliminate the cat's? I can't gut them, cause i need them to pass emissions. Also what else did ya do to gain HP? | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1806 Registered: 2-2001 |
Yea, the emissions were an afterthought but if you eliminate them and tweek it a little with some decent timing advance it is like adding a Turbo in the difference it makes. Before anyone discounts the early FI 308s they should drive one that is "right". Whoa Nellie!!! | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 422 Registered: 5-2002 |
Ed, Both cars can be made to fly. What happened to them to make them US legal was disasterous. And the biggest problem I got with 308's is the emission crap is an "add on" meaning it was not part of the inital design.I still like to think about what could have been if Ferrari could of got them over here with some kind of exemption. WOW. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1804 Registered: 2-2001 |
My 82 with the DIS ignition and gutted Cats feels twice as powerful as it did in stock trim. With a little polishing the 80-82s can be made pretty quick. | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 421 Registered: 5-2002 |
I own a 78 and a 80. The 78 walks away from the 80 like it's standing still. | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 420 Registered: 5-2002 |
Sales brochure from my 78 gtb  | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 419 Registered: 5-2002 |
my 78 gtb has 240 hp.dont be fooled. 270 without emissions and euro -spec. | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Junior Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 149 Registered: 5-2001 |
81-82 GTSi have lowest hp? One mistake people make is to not realize that 78-79 308's (USA) only made 205hp, just like the later 2 valve FI cars. The reasons for this was a change in carb jetting and emission controls. I can verify this, as I had my car dyno'd (78 308 GTS USA)and it was only making about 195 hp at the crank, with a recent major service, Crane ignition boxes, ss cat bypass pipes and K&N air filter. Rejetting the carbs with 140 mains brought it up to 214 hp at the crank. The 76-77 (USA) carb cars are the ones that made 240 hp. Later QV 30's also made 230 hp. I think the 85 was rated at 240hp. Again, this is for USA cars. Overall, FI cars have better "drivability". But carb cars sound way better. | ||
| Dave L (Davel)
Junior Member Username: Davel Post Number: 206 Registered: 7-2001 |
83 was first year for 4valve motor. I never thought that year was weak on power. Heck you get true dual exhaust with it as well. | ||
| Paul (Pcelenta)
Junior Member Username: Pcelenta Post Number: 66 Registered: 7-2002 |
I think chris sawyerrrr has a couple in his inventory....just kidding! 9 years ago I went looking for 80-82 gtsi...and went with a 78 GTS instead...much happier...easier to diagnose problems...my porsches with FI ran great...but when an aux. air valve, warm up regulator, cold start injector goes its a pain in the ass to track down the problems...I found that most mechanics are just parts changers...so they kept changing and charging till they got it right... go with a carb car...you should be able to find one in your price range but bear in mind at 26K you will be putting more money into it... | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 414 Registered: 5-2002 |
The only thing I dont like is 80 thru most of 83 where the weakest years for the 308. Horsepower.yuk. However 30k for the right cat is not unreasonable. I would not take less then 30 for my 78. If the car is correct and maintained you know the guy has receipts for much much more$$$ then he is asking. My receipts from day 1 total in excess of 70k.JMOH | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1793 Registered: 2-2001 |
My car is in fact $30,000 but if you twist my arm I will take $35,000. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Junior Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 216 Registered: 5-2001 |
Just for the record,Michael, Ed is a mechanic and evidentially loved that car. Those two things go great together with a first Ferrari. BELIEVE me. | ||
| michael dipple (Viking)
New member Username: Viking Post Number: 4 Registered: 8-2002 |
Hi guys, thanks verry much for your tales..Ihave already seen Edward gaults beautifull gtsi,he is asking $35,000 It is SWEET, but im looking to spend $26,000 there abouts. Ive seen 3 of them in the last 7 months at that price.. 45,000 miles,new tires,new exhaust,30,000 mile dealer service done,verry clean | ||
| Gil Lucero (Ferrari_guy_1)
New member Username: Ferrari_guy_1 Post Number: 1 Registered: 4-2002 |
My first Ferrari was a Red/Tan 82 GTSi. I really enjoyed the car. It was well sorted and didn't burn any oil between changes. The horsepower on the GTSi (205) is lower than the earlier GTS's and the later QVs but for the price the GTSi is a very enjoyable car. I sold mine with 83,000 miles and the engine was so solid that I could have put 150,000 without any extra work other than the scheduled maintenance. Take a careful look at any potential car. One item to watch for is rust bubbles particularly below the doors. Many 308's have this issue. Make sure the scheduled services have been performed. | ||
| Mitchel DeFrancis (4re308)
Member Username: 4re308 Post Number: 622 Registered: 6-2001 |
Mike, I have an 84 GTS QV and love it to death. I will never sell the car. By far my best investment ever!! I LOVE my GTS! I was originally looking for a GTB, because I loved how tight the cars drove, once I saw my car it was all she wrote. Even if the GTS is not as tight as the GTB, it is a superb handling car, and has very good power....and heck, you already know how freaking gorgeous 308 GTSs are. I think a 308 is among the most beautiful cars ever made. By a GTS and thank us later.... You need to go check out Ed Gaults car, or contact Howie Friedman @ www.exoticautobrokers.com | ||
| david handa (Davehanda)
Junior Member Username: Davehanda Post Number: 146 Registered: 5-2001 |
Ditto on what Mark said. I had a well sorted 78 308 GTS with many upgrades and it drove very well. But, if you are used to newer cars, this isn't for you. Carbs definitely need more warm-up time, the early cars have heavy clutches (though you can have the update installed). The FI cars are just better drivers, IMHO. But they sound, I have to admit, the sound was wonderful, esp with the ss bypass pipes and K&N. | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Junior Member Username: Markg Post Number: 222 Registered: 2-2001 |
I have an '82 GTSi. It starts quicker than any car I have ever owned. Accelerates smooth as one would expect from FI vs. Carb cars. As to the ride, there isn't anything enjoyable about a 308 - rough suspension, stiff steering, pedal location and effort not the best, noisy, hot, smells of gas/oil/leather, this ain't no Mercedes - this is a car nut's machine! I drove mine from Colorado to Las Vegas and on the open freeway all the above complaints go away and you just cruise....FI handles altitude changes quite well, though not as well as new FT technology. | ||
| DHutchison (Hutch308)
Junior Member Username: Hutch308 Post Number: 68 Registered: 1-2002 |
My '82 has been treated exceptionally well by me (I've dumped around $20k into it in mods + repairs). When it is good, it's great, but when it's bad... If you want to take it for a test ride, e-mail me, I'm in CT. I am looking to upgrade to ??? Possibly a Testarossa or 328 GTS. Through it all though, I do like my 308. | ||
| Kelly (Tifosi1)
Member Username: Tifosi1 Post Number: 346 Registered: 2-2002 |
I'm enjoying mine. love it to death. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1777 Registered: 2-2001 |
You are welcome to come and drive mine and purchase it after your convincing test drive. I probably have one of the most driver/ owner friendly cars ever built. It is in S.C. | ||
| michael dipple (Viking)
New member Username: Viking Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2002 |
Can anyone give me any feedback good or bad on the 1980-82 gtsi..would like to get one but have only driven the earlier 308gts a few times. Did not enjoy anything about the ride except the sound..My feelings are after reading all i can find theses past months,that the gtsi would be more driver frendley,thankyou Mick.. |