| Author | Message | ||
| Clark Driggers (Clark)
New member Username: Clark Post Number: 40 Registered: 11-2001 |
I am looking at a car at Algar Ferrari, very low iles and serviced by Algar. Does anyone know an independant mechanic nearby?? How will Algar feel about this? Clark | ||
| Alberto (Aabreu)
Junior Member Username: Aabreu Post Number: 72 Registered: 9-2001 |
Ralph: I got the dealer to send me pictures of the car he had for sale, as well as getting a detailed verbal description of the car. I then asked for references out side the state where the dealer is, and called those references (what I was mostly looking for was whether the car was as represented to them). I then agreed to a price on the car and made it clear (in writing) that the price was contingent on it being as represented. I then arranged for a pre-purchase inspection from an independent mechanic. When I got there, I looked at the car and cosmetically it was as described. I then talked to the mechanic, who had found that the clutch needed replacing. I brought this up with the dealer and I quickly (using his phone) got a couple of quotes on that and he knocked off for the price of the clutch. From a practial standpoint, what I did before hand was to get two cashier's checks, one for $2000 less than the total originally agreed to, another for $1000 and took my credit card. Thus, if the car needed $2000 worth of work, I was covered, if it needed $1000 worth of work, I was covered, and if it needed no work, I would pay the balance with credit card. As it turned out, I have him the one for $2000 less than the originally agreed to price and put $500 on the credit car (he knocked off $1500 for the clutch). This approach worked out great because I was dealing with a completely honest dealer (I am convinced he honestly did not know about the clutch, since he does not specialize in Ferrari's). The worst that could happen it that you waste your trip, but I tried to minimize that possibility using this approach. Good luck. | ||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
New member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 28 Registered: 3-2002 |
16 Aug 02 Dear Matthew: THANK YOU for your offer. I (will) contact you; if I need to pursue a prospective car further. I will need ALL the help I can have. Sincerely Ralph | ||
| Matthew Jenson (Moab355)
New member Username: Moab355 Post Number: 35 Registered: 9-2001 |
Ralph, Where is the car located in Utah? I would be happy to go check it out for you. You could also ask some of the guys in the Utah Ferrari owners Club to assist you. Let me know if I can help | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Junior Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 221 Registered: 5-2001 |
I was lucky. I knew a guy in Atlanta who used to sell Ferraris at FAF. For a very reasonable fee he inspected my car and took it to a mechanic for me as well. I live in Birmingham AL and both he and the car were in Atlanta. I just took his word everything was fine. It was. I have bought 2 cars thru him this way | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Junior Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 212 Registered: 1-2002 |
I have bought 3 cars out of state. I negotiated a price after talking and seeing all the records, but before I went in all 3 instances. The first car, I flew in, bought it and drove it home. The 2nd. I flew in, bought it and had it shipped. The 3rd. I had a prepurchase inspecion done and the guy was so glowing about it, I bought it sight unseen and had it shipped. I think a prepurchase is the way to go. By the way, I have found that pixs are of little help. Last 2 cars, I didn't even ask for any. Also, I always make sure that the person or dealer actually owns the car and has title in hand. Too much grief otherwise. Dave | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 418 Registered: 5-2002 |
Make sure you are wiling to pay full asking price if the car is 100% as described by owner. When you get there deduct accordingly if fair deal is not met. Walk away. I have flown in and walked before. I usually try to look at more than 1 car per trip to help give me some room to bargain. | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Member Username: Doody Post Number: 382 Registered: 11-2001 |
i second howie's comment about travel. for some people it's easy to blow a day and hop on a plane. for some it's way not easy. i've always been of the mind to only do business with people i feel comfortable with. know what you want; trust your instincts; get a third party opinion - and the odds will be on your side. doody. | ||
| Howie F. (Brokerofexotics)
Junior Member Username: Brokerofexotics Post Number: 157 Registered: 11-2001 |
Ralph: I wasn't offering you my services, just friendly advice if needed. Eli: Thank you for your kind words. Glad to see you here! Art: Most of our clients lack the time to travel across the US looking for cars. Having a PPI done by a reputable Ferrari shop can save potentially wasted time, effort, energy and money. Regards, Howard | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Member Username: Doody Post Number: 381 Registered: 11-2001 |
Ralph: I bought my 355 out of state. I agree with most of the advice presented here. (A) Decide what you want. In painful detail. Specifics. Specifics. Specifics. This filters out all sorts of garbage from the process. (B) Know the weak points of the car you're looking at. When I looked at 355 Spiders I knew exactly the list of ten digital pictures I wanted to receive via email ("Thanks, but I don't much care about the pictures on your web site, email me these specific ten shots please."). (C) Get a third party to inspect the car. Make sure they understand a priori that you will NOT be having them do ANY work for you. IME, a lack of such a notification creates excessive silly feedback ("We'll have to replace the front hood because a bee looked at it funny", etc.). (D) Negotiate price when you're comfortable that you know exactly what you're negotiating on. Sometimes that's early on, sometimes it's not. (C+D) When to invest real travel time/money is a tough call that only you can make. I dealt with a private seller on one car and I wasn't willing to invest in the PPI until we negotiated a final price (the car was rep'd as perfect - I found out it wasn't after talking to the service department he used). I dealt with a broker on another car and did the PPI before we had negotiated a final price (I knew the car needed a few things, and needed to know the scope - the broker's been sitting on this car now for coming up on a year). (E) Run, don't walk, away from bozos who know less about the car than you do. "Oh no - you don't need to do an engine-out on a 355 until 30K miles - at 3,000 miles a year of summer driving you're all set until 2008!" (F) Find out where it was serviced and call. I talked to five or six Ferrari service shops (authorized and independent) around the country during my search. They were all uniformly happy to talk to me about the car and tell me what they had done to it and what they thought was wrong with it. They were nearly all willing to share service records via fax, etc. FWIW, I used two brokers and a dealer during my six-month search for a very (VERY) specific car. In the end I did the deal myself. If you want a pristine, late-model car, a broker will have a tougher time (IMO) helping you because these seem to more frequently be at the dealers (trades, presumably); the dealers know they're valuable; and the dealers are thus not going to leave much room for the broker to make any money. If you are not looking for a pristine, late-model car; or if you don't have ultra-specific BPC (or are flexible), an honest broker will be very helpful IMO. My two (or four) pennies. Doody. | ||
| ELI (Titanium360)
Junior Member Username: Titanium360 Post Number: 128 Registered: 4-2002 |
Ralph: I have bought two cars out of state. The first thing i did was to negotiate the price so that i don't waste my time and money if we don't agree on the price. Then have either a ferrari dealer or a very good independent check the car for you inside out. After he has given you a clean bill of health on the car then i will take a trip and take a look at my investment with my own eyes. So far i have been very happy with both transactions. I also have to let you know that i have purchased them from private owners. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 592 Registered: 6-2001 |
Ralph: From someone who has bought from out of state: 1. GO LOOK AT THE CAR (do this before you spend money on an inspection. Pictures don't show you the car properly.) 2. If you like what you see, find a good mechanic in the area (or within towing distance) who has a good reputation, and have him do the prepurchase inspection. 3. Once 2 has been completed, negotiate the price. Since these prices are generally high, Ferrari Market Letter is a good guide on asking price, also Forza has articles about the various models, with a discussion about actual value. A good way to find wholesale value is to call a dealer, let them know that you have a similar car, and get an idea of what they would allow on trade. 4. Lastly, check with the Department of Motor Vehciles in the State where the vehicle is and verify that the car is owned by the seller, and VERIFY THE signature on the bill of sale and pink slip is indeed the owner. There are companies who will "clear" out of State cars, you may use their services. Hope this helps. Art Chambers | ||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
New member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 27 Registered: 3-2002 |
Thanks for the advice. I really do not want to get a broker involved. Eli the three cars are available in S. Cal, R.I., and Utah. I did not enjoy my dealings with some brokers. I know they are not (all) the same. The stories were just amazing. It went something like this - I heard these comments: # of owners is not that important in THESE cars. Because they often are moved around over the years. You ask questions about this and that: Well I just do not know. I do not know if it is original paint. Hey: Why is the paint not original on a garaged car with less than 15,000 miles ? How long has the current owner had the car? Well thats not important because I have clients who buy cars sight unseen and keep the cars only a few months. You do not have to do a major service (engine out cam belts) every five years. But the car is really well priced. I wonder why? I really enjoyed this one. This is a (great) one to remember; if you need to keep your buyer on ice. - - I would like to see this car that you have available. - Well the owner is a lawyer and he is very busy. He does not have any time to show the car. I have left him a message every day. He must be waiting on Tony to make the part in Modena ? Well you guessed it. The local garage where the car is serviced told me the car was a pile of junk. /////////// I will probably fly and see a few cars after the car has checked out with carfax and a compression check has been completed by a reputable shop. Ciao Ralph | ||
| ELI (Titanium360)
Junior Member Username: Titanium360 Post Number: 127 Registered: 4-2002 |
Ralph: I would highly recommend Howie at Exotic Auto Brokers. I have found him to be very knowledgeable and straight forward. No B.S. . He tells you the true story behind the car. Where is the car you are looking at? | ||
| Howie F. (Brokerofexotics)
Junior Member Username: Brokerofexotics Post Number: 155 Registered: 11-2001 |
Ralph, This is exactly the type of thing ExoticAutoBrokers.com is involved in. It is recommended that intially obtain detailed pictures of all of the car's angles. Then obtain the paperwork via fax (ie. Carfax, service records, copy of title). Also, see what kind of flexibility there is in price. At this point if you are still interested in the car, have a 3rd party indpendent pre pruchase inspection by either an authorized Ferrari dealer or independent Ferrari shop (we know of many scattered across the country). A crucial step and typically costs less than a plane ticket. If the car has weaknesses and you are still interested, now is the time to really negotiate. After all the above, either fly in and drive the car home, or have a top notch trasport company deliver it to your door. Good luck! If I can be of help, feel free to e-mail me off-list at [email protected] or 305.864.2089. | ||
| Fred (Iluv4res)
New member Username: Iluv4res Post Number: 36 Registered: 8-2002 |
Hi Ralph, First, see if someone on f-chat, or perhaps someone you know wherever the car is, would be willing to take a quick look. (Where is it?) If it passes the inital inspection, car-fax, etc... I recommend negotiating a price prior to flying there. That way, you are not wasting time. Once the price is decided, go to look at it. If it's different than described, then you were lied to and you probably don't want to deal with that person anyways. If it's what you expected, then get it inspected by a F-car tech! If everything goes smooth, ship it or drive it home & enjoy!!! Most important.....Make sure you are comfortable with the seller over the phone!!! I have talked with many sellers who have too many stories for my comfort level. (friend of a friend, not sure if it's been repainted, don't have the records but they can get them, etc...) I have this attitude after flying to 4 different parts of the country only to be dissapointed when I saw the cars. Unfortunately, buying a car out of state is difficult. However, it's a reality when buying such a limited edition type of car. Good luck and happy hunting!!!  | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 561 Registered: 3-2001 |
Ralph, after several faxes & emails with detailed questions/responses about the car (condition, history, service, etc.), I negotiated the price over the phone based on their description. Then I used some FF miles and flew out to take a look. I studied a lot and knew exactly what I wanted ahead of time including color, condition, mileage, price range, etc. IMO, if you fly out before negotiating a price and decide you like the car, I think they pretty much got you by the short hairs as it relates to the negotiation process. I was able to cut a very good deal over the phone prior to flying out. But I'm sure there are different schools of thought on this subject. As you mentioned, make sure the Carfax is clean. Get a pre-purchase inspection by a recommended third party. And have them fax the documents ahead of time... maybe you can contact the prior owner(s). Good luck! | ||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
New member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 26 Registered: 3-2002 |
Greetings. This is a little odd question. Advice on how to buy your Ferrari. Out of State 1. Do you just fly out there after a Vin# carfax report has checked out; and then go back and forth on the price? ( After the car has checked out mechanically and cosmetically ) - or risk going back home on the airplane for nothing. ( If you cannot agree on a price ). Of course it is cheaper to go back on the airplane than purchase a poor vehicle. You will always get better results negotiating face to face. The seller obviously knows that you are ready to close a deal NOW. -or- 2. Do most people just agree on a price for the car on the "telephone" assuming the car will check out mechanically and cosmetically. It is probably in ones interest to negotiate "after" the car has checked out. The seller will probably not want you to go back on the airplane without having sold you the car. I feel that I might have found a car to look at. Any advice would be appreciated. Ciao Ralph |