| Author | Message | ||
| Brian Kennedy (Kennedy)
Junior Member Username: Kennedy Post Number: 131 Registered: 3-2002 |
Well, for example, if you sign a sales contract and give them a deposit and then for whatever reason the dealer is unable to ship you the car... but the dealer does not return your money... they just keep it... they say they'll return it, but they never do. In most states that would be considered a criminal theft of some sort. In FL, since they entered into the contract intending to supply the car, there is no crime in simply keeping the money later. Its a civil-only matter. Fortunately, it looks like the IRS considers it differently; and it looks like the FL division of motor vehicles considers it unacceptable. However, in other states, many of these dealers would be in jail in weeks... not just losing their dealers' licenses after years of bad behavior. | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Member Username: Doody Post Number: 388 Registered: 11-2001 |
Somebody in a previous thread stated or implied that the laws in Florida were set up such that used car dealers were tremendously well-protected as compared to other states. Could someone clarify how the laws in FL are particularly beneficial for the dealer? I'm just curious. Thanks, Doody. | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Member Username: Modman Post Number: 266 Registered: 11-2001 |
Hopefully Exotic Cars Ho-Sale in Ft. Lauderdale will follow them down the tubes also. They are a bunch of frauds too. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2625 Registered: 5-2001 |
ELI, who knows what these were. If consignment the owners will have to claim them with the FBI I guess or whoever is handling the investigation. If they had titles with the banks the banks will get them out, if they were owned as part of their inventory and the State Attorney is seeking financial penalties they will likely be held until the sentencing of the trial and used as collateral. Very likely these cars are consignments or heavily financed. I could not believe how many people wanted to give me their cars as consignment and put them in my "showroom". Most were disappointed when I said we do not have a showroom, neither will we accept somebody elses cars. | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 296 Registered: 10-2001 |
David- I hate short-sighted BS car salesmen as much as you do. And I also know how to factor in Goodwill..I used to own a retail business that had a very high Goodwill factor. I was just trying to bait a discussion here about how exotic car lots work. Playing a little Devils Advocate here  Martin Thanks for the info... just as I thought. | ||
| ELI (Titanium360)
Junior Member Username: Titanium360 Post Number: 140 Registered: 4-2002 |
Martin, what happens to the cars that were on the lot? | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2623 Registered: 5-2001 |
Having owned a successful dealership I can tell you this from experience: It is virtually impossible to make money in the exotic car business unless you are a factory authorized dealer. These guys make the money in both sales and service because the first time the car is sold it is through one of their shops. As for the used car dealers like myself (now only as a hobby because it does not pay the rent in real life) you can only make a buck if you buy cheap and sell reasonable. What I mean is you have to buy from somebody that really wants to sell today! Selling only works at true retail price levels. Even then it is hard to keep a good name. The TS I just sold to Kansas, the guy picks up the car and drives it to Kansas and on the way the AC starts going wild shuts of and on. I mean there is nothing I can do right? As Is, no warranty and 1500 miles later... If you have a less understanding customer he would be bitching and moaning and badmouth me. I almost made no money on the car after all the repairs done, the detailling, the interest payment and the rent and you are lucky if you make $2,000 on a $45,000 investment. Pretty lame. Prestige Imports had been accused and I believe found guilty for money laundring, The Toy Store, no comment, Lux. Cars...you just read it. Good for me, the competition is thinning out | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Junior Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 220 Registered: 5-2001 |
Who runs these places? Chris Sawyerr? | ||
| Tony (Tony_fl)
New member Username: Tony_fl Post Number: 16 Registered: 4-2002 |
Here's an innovative idea. How about the Auto Toy Store represent the cars the way they are, hire salepeople that know what the hell they're talking about and provide sales and service like Shelton does. They would then sell enough volume to pay their bills and make a profit without being dishonest. People would then flock there (myself included) by word of mouth such as this board. But no that would be too difficult. It is easier to just rip people off. | ||
| Fred (Iluv4res)
New member Username: Iluv4res Post Number: 37 Registered: 8-2002 |
Living here in South Florida, I have had numerous opportunites to visit both Luxury Cars as well as the Toy Store. In my opinion, I can tell you that both have sub-standard cars and I would NEVER buy one from either location. There are a few other dealers here that I feel the same about. A year or so back, I saw a Ferrari 348 Spider at Luxury cars that they were working on. The interior was completely torn apart by them and they were getting ready to patch up some body repairs. I got the feeling that they used the 'bubble gum and duct tape' approach to getting their cars ready for sale. At the Toy Store, every car I looked at had paint-work. To be fair, I only looked at 6 or 7 cars while there on each occasion. Perhaps the clients they deal with may not care about having a cherry-car. I am guessing that they lease, drive the crap out of them, then lease something else. Or, perhaps I'm too anal about these cars. I went to one dealership and when I noticed excessive paintwork and that the seats on a car with 'low miles' were already dyed I was told that every car gets painted and the leather dyed at the factory and that if someone does it again it really doesn't matter. Most of the cars are LGAN's (Looks good at night). Not my cup of tea. These dealerships are definitely the proteges of Gorden Gekko - "Greed is good!" Remember the old saying "Buyer Beware!!!" | ||
| David White (Dwhite)
New member Username: Dwhite Post Number: 48 Registered: 7-2002 |
Mark You need to evaluate what you consider "a good business". To you extortion is a good business - it makes lots of money. Ripping people off is a short term approach to business. Loads of "good will" for the balance sheet there . . right? | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 295 Registered: 10-2001 |
On the other side of the coin... Shelton makes money from a huge repair shop. (lucky for them that Ferrari's has a huge pre-engineered need for repairs ). Shelton uses their perfect good-will and techy image to charge very high prices for the cars on their showroom floor! But it is nothing in size and fixed cost like the Auto Toy Store. So put yourself in the shoes of the business man and tell me how they do it? When I go to buy something. I always look at the business model and wonder where the profit center is. | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 294 Registered: 10-2001 |
That's my point. Business is the art of making money. On the other hand...F-chat is for car nuts and lovers of perfect cars. I don't think the two mix. The Toy Store is a Good Business (makes a lot of money). Has not been shut down by the State. If you owned a car lot with high fixed expenses, how would you do it? I would think restoring cars is the way to go. The little white lie ( or the not being able to sleep well at night) comes in when you have to tell buyers that these are perfect clean cars. Besides..If the guys at Auto Toy Store are really crooks, like some say... I don't want them to be mad at me | ||
| martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
Member Username: Mw360 Post Number: 527 Registered: 5-2001 |
Mark, "auto toy store is a FINE business" HELLO---where have you been?????? | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 293 Registered: 10-2001 |
Exotic car dealers seem to have a thin line to walk. I've been thinking about the Auto Toy Store that is a fine business in Fort Lauderdale ( don't want to lump them in with Luxury Cars of Palm Beach ). We had a thread on F-chat a few weeks ago that was pretty hard on the Auto Toy Store, but it makes me think... if I had a showroom with $15k rent and payroll, and inventory cost... how would I make money??? Lets say fixed cost are $40k a month. Even if I sold 10 cars a month at $4k profit I would just break even. So I can't take perfect cars and turn them over at a fee. What I'd have to do is buy beat up cars and then fix them up, use my location and fancy showroom to gain instant respect from my custumers and then make a big profit on every car I sold. I bring this up because I did notice that Auto Toy Store just got 3 beat-up Diablo's in back of the lot. They are in very poor shape. Probably bought for $80k. I bet after the detail shop gets done with them they'll sell for $110k on average. NOW That's a profit that can keep a big operation in a nice profit. Exotic car shops provide an easy way to look at some rare cars in an easy location. I wouldn't want to be in the business. Web sites like autoTrader.com skim off too many of the best car customers. If I had a car showroom, I would be selling to less informed, or (more money then time) type car shoppers. These are just some thoughts. I am no expert but wanted to know what you guys think??? | ||
| Tony (Tony_fl)
New member Username: Tony_fl Post Number: 14 Registered: 4-2002 |
This is the article I found in the news: A LOCAL CAR DEALERSHIP.. IS CLEANED OUT.. BY THE COPS. ACCORDING TO THE FLORIDA ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE.. "LUXURY CARS OF PALM BEACH".. IS ACCUSED OF BAIT AND SWITCH ADVERTISING.. MEANING THEY LIST CARS IN ADS.. THAT THE DEALERSHIP.. DOESN'T HAVE. TODAY.. TOW TRUCKS ROLLED INTO THE "LUXURY CARS" LOT.. ON PALM BEACH LAKES BOULEVARD.. AND ROLLED OUT.. WITH 60- MERCEDES.. BMW'S.. PORSCHES AND OTHER PRICEY CARS. CUSTOMERS SHOWING UP.. ARE STUNNED.. ESPECIALLY ONE WOMAN WHO RECENTLY BOUGHT A CAR THERE. STATE RECORDS SHOW "LUXURY CARS" OF THE PALM BEACHES IS OWNED BY DERIS CERESA. THE COMPANY ALSO HAS AN "UNSATISFACTORY" RATING WITH THE BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU.. FOR UNANSWERED COMPLAINTS. SO FAR.. NO RESPONSE TO THE CHARGES.. FROM THE DEALERSHIP. | ||
| Tony (Tony_fl)
New member Username: Tony_fl Post Number: 13 Registered: 4-2002 |
Luxury Cars of Palm Beach was shut down a couple of days ago. All the cars they had on the lot were towed away. I didn't see it on the news but was told they were fixing up cars that were in wrecks and were water damaged and possibly doing something with the VIN #'s. I also heard they had something going on with taxes. I always knew they were doing something sneaky. |