| Author | Message | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Junior Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 170 Registered: 8-2002 |
Want exclusivity? Try this: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1853541808 | ||
| Najib Amanullah (Najib)
Junior Member Username: Najib Post Number: 168 Registered: 4-2001 |
Ferrari's are some of the most VISIBLE cars. If one does not like any attention, you don't buy a Ferrari. Get something nondescript like a Ford Taurus. Also, if someone does not like Ferrari owners, then none of us can change that. For example if you stop at a traffic light and look at the cars next to you, they might say "He/she is looking for attention" and if you just look straight ahead, "He/she is arrogant". Heads you lose and tails you lose. Do you want such pettiness to bother you?!! I was in Canada and London recently and whereas most cars in Canada were daily drivers except for a red 328 in Toronto, I saw several nice cars in London. Thats not surprising 'cause its a fairly affluent city and lots of bankers with large bonuses. I enjoyed looking at the cars. The only thing I do not enjoy is if they are poorly maintained or abused. The chap on the corner of our road had a Merc S320, ML 320 and a Ferrari 360 parked on his forecourt because his garage was too small to take any of the cars. But thats London. Manu, sorry to hear you dont have the 550 anymore. Did you sell it or what? You are probably missing not having it right now. | ||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
New member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 30 Registered: 3-2002 |
If you are buying one of these cars just to impress someone with the latest and greatest - You would not bother being anywhere near this board. Enuff said Ciao. Ralph | ||
| Scott A. B. Collins (Scott)
Junior Member Username: Scott Post Number: 66 Registered: 6-2001 |
Two quick stories, with a (sort of) related point. 1) I'm going to a Porsche Club of America retreat/dinner this Saturday in the 360 (don't own a Pcar, got invited b/c of a friend). Made a T shirt that has a prancing horse on the front pocket, with "The Best Fiat Money Can Buy" printed next to it. On the back, and much bigger, is a Porsche crest with "The Best VW Money Can Buy". It will be interesting to see who has a sense of humor and who doesn't. 2) Took the 360 yesterday to look at cars, as I am looking for a new daily driver to replace my M3. Went to Chevy to look at Corvettes, and went to Ford to look at Mustang Cobras. In each case, my car was surrounded by dealership employees. In each case, bonnets and doors were open, and other "car people" brought their cars around. One guy had a 289 FIA Cobra (kit), another a beautiful Split window 'vette. About an hour of car talk ensued at each point, with some Ferrari education in the mix. A big point of this board is to be passionate about Ferrari's. I would imagine many members are also passionate about driving, about cars in general, and about motorsports. Lets focus on why we're here. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 889 Registered: 8-2001 |
Manu, I didn't mean to sound confrontational. Kinda difficult to put across subtlties on the 'net. | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Member Username: Manu Post Number: 393 Registered: 2-2002 |
Willis - I'm actually in agreement with you mate. You're coming off a little confrontational - We don't love these cars for any other reason other than the fact they make US feel great. But your point higlighted how easy it is for people to be judged (mistakenly) - Ross said it all: "if the person who thinks your look is not right, but bothers to speak to you, he'll actually find out you are a good guy and an enthusiast." So fair enough. Who cares anyway? We bought the cars for ourselves. | ||
| Christian (Christiank)
Member Username: Christiank Post Number: 395 Registered: 1-2001 |
Ajay, so what exactly which cars do YOU own? Do you have a great experience with GM cars or are you just jeleous? I am speaking from a vast experience at least. I should have clarified myself. I like Ferrari but I won't bother buying a used one again. My next one will be a new or slightly used one from the dealer in Vancouver. The money what I pumped into my Mondial and TR would be enough to buy a F15 fighterjet. Now I have 2 Porsche (plus 4 other cars and other toys too), the 964 convertible slightly modified which runs 180 mph and a 944 turbo highly modified with 450 HP. I drove with both cars in 1/10 of the time more than with both my Ferrari and did all the work which was necessary myself. OK, not so exclusive but I can always take my TR out for a ride and get some attention. | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Junior Member Username: Ross Post Number: 245 Registered: 3-2002 |
why worry about it ? who cares what people think of you in your car? you enjoy it right? so why bother with the rest of this boneheads. if the person who thinks your look is not right, but bothers to speak to you, he'll actually find out you are a good guy and an enthusiast. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 887 Registered: 8-2001 |
So what are we supposed to do in our cars so people won't think we're pricks and poseurs? Is it possible to acknowledge EVERYONE who waved at me even if I didn't see them? Do I suddenly become a prick or poseur if I looked away for oncoming traffic or making adjustments inside the car? How do I avoid the embarrassed look? Will somebody figure this out? I've got more important things to do. Like actually driving and enjoy my car.  | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Junior Member Username: Ross Post Number: 244 Registered: 3-2002 |
manu, exclusivity (rarity) does not exclude wankers/poseurs from buying/renting. so unfortunately you will forever b plagued by this type of person. just get over it and go on down the road, happy in the knowledge that you are not one of them. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 886 Registered: 8-2001 |
Ralph, that's just it. You can't tell who people really are by just looking at them. I look younger than I really am to most people. So when I get in the 360, people probably think it's a kid driving daddy's Ferrari. | ||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
New member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 29 Registered: 3-2002 |
I was at an airport a few years ago and saw the pilot of a Mig-15 Fighter Jet get out of his plane. I was expecting that he would LOOK like the people in the Ferrari brochures. You know the $400 glasses with the perfect body and everything else etc.... I was suprised and (maybe) disappointed to see that he looked like a regular joe. I want a Ferrari for the overall satisfaction and performance. The car will not be an investment. ( Service is expensive and too many manufactured ). I just have a strong desire to sit on top of a twelve. Testarossa There are faster cars out there for less money. The Viper / Z06 comes to mind. P.S. I will make an offer on a 88.5 TR next week - Wish me luck. It would be my first one. Carfax report checked out o.k. I will get a visual and compression check. Does anyone know an excellent mechanic in the B. Hills "area" of L.A. ? I am looking at a dealer to inspect the car. I am concerned that some dealers are not qualified to properly inspect a car. They will just assign a junior mechanic to inspect the car; if they are behind and busy. I hope it works out. Ciao.... Ralph | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Member Username: Manu Post Number: 392 Registered: 2-2002 |
Ernesto - so did I - but what's your reaction if the driver gives attitude - looks away - look embarrassed. In fact recently I was in the F355 of Eli- Ninja (on this board) and came up behind a 360 in central (right behind in heavy traffic)- we tooted and waved and the guy did nothing - and then just pissed off at the first opportunity. I'm guessing he was embarassed that appeal of his car had somehow been compromised by the presence of another Ferrari right behind him....and this guess isn't as far-fetched as it may seem.... just a prick that likes to pose. There's another problem here that has been ignored. Making Ferraris successively easier to drive means that more non-enthusiasts are prepared to buy them to pose in. Asking the driver for a compromise (a difficult car to drive) is not a problem if the market segment you want to sell to is the enthusiast segment. Make the car easy to drive and all the poseurs can get in on the act. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 628 Registered: 2-2001 |
Manu, I, for one, LOVE it when I see other Ferraris on the road. I love to share and talk with other owners. Everytime I see another one, I make it a point to try to talk to them for a couple of minutes. Now, obviously, if I saw one every five minutes like a Vette or a Porsche, then maybe some of the mystique would be lost. Ernesto | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1266 Registered: 2-2001 |
Exclusivity is one reason why my Ferraris are not red | ||
| Don Norton (Litig8r)
Junior Member Username: Litig8r Post Number: 103 Registered: 6-2001 |
Porsches have no soul. My Ferrari is built like a sculpture. My Porsche is built like a refrigerator. | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Member Username: Manu Post Number: 391 Registered: 2-2002 |
For all the Ferrari skeptics.... the cars are not under examination here - we're all agreed that they are wonderful and MOST of us think they are the best cars in the world. If not.. then get the hell off the board.. The point of this thread was - is there ever a scenario where you feel.... a) despite very low exisitng volume of production, that "specialness" may be being lost. (perhaps from seeing Ferraris frequently in certain parts of the world) and related to this point: b) too many "non-enthusiasts" are driving Ferraris - which may increase that loss of "specialness" Sorry - that's the best way I could find of putting it - not very aticulate but that was my best attempt. As I said before - the cars are beyond words... Don't think so? Then grow up and get the hell of F-chat (which may I remind you is a board for Ferrari-lovers.) | ||
| Ajay Mehta (Ajay)
New member Username: Ajay Post Number: 5 Registered: 5-2002 |
Christian, Explain to me exactly why you are on this forum? I'm sure there is a forum for Cayenne lovers out there! Hmmm, wouldn't see Ferrari backing a loser of a car like that! | ||
| John A. Suarez (Futureowner)
Junior Member Username: Futureowner Post Number: 127 Registered: 3-2002 |
I know a guy who owns three C5 vettes. A 97'(1200 miles), a 98 convertible (800 miles), and a 2000 Z06(3000 miles). Everyone has their way of enjoying what they have. Subjectivity is the name of this game. I don't care how you play it, just have fun! | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
Member Username: Bahiaau Post Number: 355 Registered: 12-2001 |
Fred, you're welcome. The only Rolex I care for is the stainless steel submariner(a classic). I'm a Patek, IWC and Franck Muller man myself, but your Omega watch is a hell of a watch also. Pisses me off when people assume that items are purchased simply because they are high priced. Ed, pick up a copy of "corvette trader", you'll an equal number of low mileage examples. Some people drive cars, some people polish them. Whatever works for each person is great. Ernesto, well said. | ||
| Christian (Christiank)
Member Username: Christiank Post Number: 394 Registered: 1-2001 |
Porsche are actually much better cars than Ferrari. My own experience. If you want to be individual and exclusive buy yourself a rattlesnake. More fun than a Ferrari, and cheaper. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 626 Registered: 2-2001 |
Edward, maybe "the reality was not as great as the hype" for you - and you have made that abundantly clear on several occassions on this forum. However, for the vast majority of the owners on this site, Ferrari ownership has been worth it. If you have to quanitify it into maintenance costs, warranty, blah blah blah, and argue it to death, then you really dont understand what its about. And your little experience with a Ferrari was indeed a mistake, and a run-of-the-mill production car is what right for you. But, just like you cant understand Ferrari ownership some people cant understand why on Earth you would buy a Corvette when you can buy almost buy a 348 for that money. Ernesto | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 477 Registered: 12-2001 |
Here's what puzzles me about this thread? How many people have you met who will say: "Yes i am totally shallow, only did/bought/whatever_____because of the image, and actually, don't work very hard, and don't really deserve it." Everbody, as we know, thinks that they and theirs are special in some way, and then there's the anti-elitest thing going on too (yeah, i would never buy an X 'cause its overpriced crap and the real insiders buy a Y). Who cares? What we are complaining about in others tells us more about ourselves, yes?(BTW, the rolexes i have had were pretty shitty timekeepers...)PS And, its all relative. When we were vacationing out west a few years ago, my wife and i rented a 500sl to drive to the grand canyon. We were staying at the big hotel at the south rim which is a huge tourist spot. I could not believe the number of people who seemed to be in awe of a shiny red mercedes convertible which, frankly, was a very nice, boring, comfortable drive, but hardly exotic in my book. But for alot of folks, it was a dream... | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member Username: Fred Post Number: 585 Registered: 2-2001 |
I would just like to thank Tyler for pointing out that just because they both tell time a timex and rolex are not the same. I do not own a rolex but I do own a nice Omega seamaster(the James Bond one). Not many people except watch people notice it but I could care less. I bought it because it is an excellent made timepiece. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Junior Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 168 Registered: 5-2002 |
Not many people are so obnoxious that they will ride around in their new Ferrari (or other car) with a big sign saying "Look at me, I'm somebody important because I can afford this fancy new car". But how many of those new Ferrari owners would feel sadly disappointed if NOBODY ever noticed their car? A friend of mine drove a brand new '84 308 GTS in 1984 that another doctor friend of his had just purchased. Do you think that doctor still owns that car? I doubt it. He bought it because it was the coolest, fanciest car of the day. And I distinctly remember that my friend mentioned that the doctor DID wear a Rolex also. I remember the lady that I saw getting out of a white 308 GTS back in the late '80s who did not even know what kind of car she was driving. She said that it belonged to her husband. That's the kind of folks who seem to buy Ferraris off the showroom. Sure they bought their cars because they love to drive them. And they love to drive them because they are cool, flashy, fast, expensive, exclusive, elite, etc. Just like Polo shirts, Rolex watches, Hasselblad cameras, etc. | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
New member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 8 Registered: 8-2002 |
A quote from "The Complete Ferrari" "The very best road test on the Berlinetta Boxer was in Car and Driver in January 1976.Leon M taped over all the prancing horses and Ferrari labels and parked in a suburban parking lot in Tulsa , Ok He then told pasers by hre was doing market research to see if the (unidentified ) car should go into production with a $4995 price tag, at the time the Boxer was the far side of 50,000 The results, the cognoscenti said it was worth that -maybe even $6000 or $6250 but others reckoned it was over priced at $4995,the winner reckoned it would be fairly priced at $3600 One woman said that she wouldn't buy the car asit was too low(the height not price), she used to have a Corvette and you couldn't see it from a pick-up truck Even if they could afford it there are large numbers especially in the Mid West who wouldn't actually want aFerrari in place of a Olds or Chevelle.Its a sobering thought." | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1865 Registered: 2-2001 |
Since almost everyone braggs about the Ferrari being the best car in the world to drive, why are there so many low mileage cars for sale? I love to drive mine and could care less how many miles I put on it. If they bought it because it was so great then why don't they drive it????? My answer is that they bought it as a status symbol and the exclusivity but the reality was not as great as the hype. | ||
| Scott A. B. Collins (Scott)
Junior Member Username: Scott Post Number: 65 Registered: 6-2001 |
Some comments. Almost everyone who posts here seems to be a true enthusiast, whether they bought new/used. And, in fact, every Ferrari owner I know (granted, it is less than a couple dozen) are all very into their cars. Are there posers out there? Of course. More in Ferrari's than other high end models (Porsches, MB, Jag, etc)--who knows? Would I buy a Ferrari if they were 20 grand--I assume so. My Ferrari lust started in Jr. High, where I was a science nerd who never could have understood the concept of "posing". BTW, I know Willis personally. He and I have recently had a long discussion about front challenge grills--not exactly the dialogue of posers. | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
Member Username: Bahiaau Post Number: 354 Registered: 12-2001 |
"That's why people wear $100 Polo shirts when a $15 Wal-Mart shirt would be just as good. Does a Rolex tell time better than a digital Timex? No, but people still pay big bucks for them. It's all about the image." Well, Arlie, I will concede that a Timex does indeed keep better time than most premium watches. But, you don't buy a Rolex or any other high-end watch to more accurately assess the time. You buy the high-end watch for the materials and the craftmanship and the wonderful mechanical bits. Same goes for the shirt(although I'm not a Polo fan). FYI, the best polo style shirts will cost you well above $650 a piece and I promise you it is the materials and feel and fit you pay for, because I can assure you 99.9% of the population can not guess that they are expensive by looks. Again, same goes for Ferraris. You can get a car that is better on paper in every area, but you cannot replace the feel you get when driving a Ferrari. | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
Member Username: Bahiaau Post Number: 353 Registered: 12-2001 |
"With the vast majority of NEW Ferrari purchasers, it's ALL about the money and appearances." Arlie, I disagree. I don't know any F-car owners(new or old) who bought their cars to show off. Is it so implausible that everyone here bought their car because they love to drive them? Guys, it's nonsense to suggest that if a Ferrari was within the means of everyone then nobody would want one. The reality is that the vast majority of people who can readily afford these cars do not own them. Everyone has one thing they will pay a premium for. For us, it's cars. Other people spend seemingly crazy dollars on watches, clothes, boats, houses, art, and planes. Some people do enjoy all those things together, and that is fantastic, and some of us have a few things we will pay a premium for. You have to remember that the poduct makes the name, not the other way around. Ferraris are rare in most parts of the world, they are expensive and to most of us here they are worth every penny. | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
New member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 7 Registered: 8-2002 |
Willis and others I met no disrespect that because you have a brand new Ferrari you must be a poseur What I meant was many new exotic car owners buy them simply because they are a status symbol and make them look good, they have no knowledge or could car less about the car or its history They lease them drive them for a while smack them around and 3 years later get a new one I am sure most everyone in this forum is a enthusiest be it they have a new or old Ferrari, a person mentioned above would not take the time or effort to go to a forum like this to learn more | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1856 Registered: 2-2001 |
Arlie is right. If everyone could have one, no one would want one. All the Lambo people would be talking about those Crappy interior look alike Ferraris thay are a whole .5 seconds slower 0 to 60. Just look at the Mazda Miata and the PT Cruiser. People paid a fortune to have the first ones because they wanted to be the "elite first owners". Now what are they worth? | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 624 Registered: 2-2001 |
I don't think I'd be holding on to a 360 if I ever go broke. Ernesto | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Junior Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 202 Registered: 4-2002 |
That or it means you went broke some time after the 360 was payed for :-p | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 621 Registered: 2-2001 |
In other words, instead of buying a 360, I should have bought an inferior, older Ferrari like a 328 or 348 to be considered a real enthusiast? That makes no sense to me! People buy what they like. I got an intense satisfaction of being able to buy one brand new. And, if I hold my 360 for ten years I will suddenly not become a poser any longer because the new generation of the model was released? Ernesto PS. My 360 is dirty all the time, and I drive it dirty. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Junior Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 164 Registered: 5-2002 |
Everybody get real! If new Ferraris only cost as much as a new Chevrolet, the upper crust wouldn't touch a new Ferrari with a 10 foot pole because it would no longer be "exclusive" and upper crust. With the vast majority of NEW Ferrari purchasers, it's ALL about the money and appearances. As the models get older, the true-blue enthusiasts enter the picture, but when the cars are new, it's all about the image. If new Ferraris were available in every town's car lot like Chevrolets are, the upper crust wouldn't have the car no matter how beautiful or how well engineered it was. It would just be "too common". That's why people wear $100 Polo shirts when a $15 Wal-Mart shirt would be just as good. Does a Rolex tell time better than a digital Timex? No, but people still pay big bucks for them. It's all about the image. Of course there is always the odd-ball example of someone who is a multi-millionaire who drives a Ford Pinto and wears ragged blue jeans. But that's an absurd example. Most high dollar folks don't waste their time making alot of money so that they can buy average houses, average cars, and average clothes. If you've got it, flaunt it, because you worked hard to earn it and you can't take it with you. (Of course the term "worked hard" does not apply to crooks and inside traders.) | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Junior Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 216 Registered: 2-2001 |
Wasn't offended by Jeff's post. People like to come to conclusions and categorize. Keep in mind that the 328 (Jeff's car based on his claim in another thread) was the 360 of its day. Though while it didn't live quite as high on the performance food chain (base 911's and Vettes had it's number), it had similar game on the pose front. It was even a rentable proposition back in the day. Whatever. Cool car no matter who's driving it, IMO. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 885 Registered: 8-2001 |
Jeff, read your first post in this thread again. This was the offending part: "When I see a new Ferrari or Porsche I think its a poser who is leasing the car which even a bartender or hairstylist can afford if they really want one here You can tell the posers by they way they look driving them with there shallow look at me I'm better body language and facial expressions" So what does a guy with a new(er) Ferrari is suppose to think? I wasn't the only one offended by what you wrote. | ||
| Brett Summerer (2tall)
New member Username: 2tall Post Number: 6 Registered: 7-2002 |
It's all a matter of location. I live and work in the 4th richest (was 2nd richest a couple years back) county (Oakland, MI) in America, and on average I see 1 ferrari (of any type, of any year - I've yet to see a 360 spyder in person) every other month, and I live (literally) around the corner from the only Ferrari dealer in MI. When I was in college I saw a ferrari 2 times during my 6 year term. For the previous 18 years growing up in S.W. MI, I saw 0 Ferraris. Around here you can't spit without hitting a Benz, BMW, Lexus, etc... (any lux car or SUV), but exotic sports cars are very rare. Probably has to do with the weather. People have to own 2 cars if they want a sports car, and they don't want to have a Ferrari and a Saturn, so it gets expensive. So only people who have lots of cars and money drive them instead of the people who can afford *just* a Ferrari and drive it daily - more or less insta-wealth types in the Entertainment biz out West or the Financial biz out East, who have money now but they'll be broke when they quit working. For example, between my Viper and Escalade, I could have a slightly used 360. But I don't because I would be carless 5 months out of the year. Oh the suffering. | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
New member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 6 Registered: 8-2002 |
Willy, Come in here? Are you a little territorial? I didn't know this was your forum as I assume you think it is with your amount of messages I have 100s at a Porsche site does that mean thats my forum and territory It always amazes me people will say things on the internet they would never say in person, I guess its the feeling of anonymity and distance that makes them bold, similar to roadrage drivers who do things in their cars they'd never do to someone in person Did I say all new Ferrari owners are poseurs, No You are right though I am sure I would size you up right away in your car | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 884 Registered: 8-2001 |
Ross, I think it's only right to say something when someone comes here and peg ALL owners of new Ferraris as poseurs. The guy even claims he could spot a poseur by the way they look in their cars. What the fxck does he know? | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Junior Member Username: Ross Post Number: 239 Registered: 3-2002 |
stat that was in the wsj yesterday, porsche sold something like 55,800 cars last year, vs ferrari around 4000 and lambo around 300. think that should put the exclusivety arguments to rest. all this other bs you guys are spouting about poseurs is a waste of time. its jealousy vs envy. who cares that poseurs can rent cars we like? they can rent just about everything else we like too. get over it, or you will fritter away a lot of energy on negative emotion. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 883 Registered: 8-2001 |
If you ever seen my 360 on any regular day, you'd see how dirty it gets after a few good drives. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 475 Registered: 12-2001 |
Gee, i just love cars, and feel blessed to be able to own what i want. I am hardly in a position to judge what other people are, or think, not because i am noble, but because appearances are deceiving. One guy i know, who has more money than all of us put together (he owned a big record company, film company, etc, and sold it all when times were good) wears army jackets and drives around in shitboxes. I, on the other hand, have money relative to the population, but am still a working stiff; my priorities though, allow me to spend what some consider to be a ridiculous amount of money on a car. In that regard, i may be a poseur, cause i like to be driving something hot, but its not because i pose with it, or drive it to trendy places; i just drive it. LA is a place where the ferraris are stacked up at the valet parking thing whenever i go to the Four Seasons there; i nonetheless enjoy seeing them, whether they are 8's or 12's. I truly love the older ones, and while there are plenty in my neck of the woods (Westchester, NY, near Conn., the old Chinetti stomping ground), you rarely see them on the road, since they are in collections, appear only at shows, etc. Anyway, i don't get hung up on any of this, cause there is always somebody out there with more, and with less, than me. Just enjoy what you have, cause if you are driving it, and like to drive it, that's the real joy of owning one. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Junior Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 200 Registered: 4-2002 |
(Excluding Nicki and kind of course) | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Junior Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 199 Registered: 4-2002 |
Edward, because woman don't drive them. ;) | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Junior Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 198 Registered: 4-2002 |
Jeff, do you think 40% of the population can make $2,000+ a month lease payments? Lol! I see. The average take home income is around $2k a month. I guess if they sleep in their car, and eat at a soup kitchen. Then can't drive it of course as that would take insurance and (of course) gas. ;) Myself? I like the 330 American, the TR and F355. If I bought the F355 first you would call me a poser, but since I opt for the TR I'm an enthusiast? Absurd. | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 1851 Registered: 2-2001 |
If the owners are not vain then why don't you ever see a dirty Ferrari? | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
New member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 4 Registered: 8-2002 |
You have an older Ferrari you must not be able to afford a newer one, how typical Like I said 40% of the population can lease a new one if they really want to, and yes I could own a 360 outright I am not saying everyone that owns a new Ferrari is a poser I am sure the owners in this forum are enthusiests or they would not be here | ||
| Robert Jude Klein (Rjklein4470)
Junior Member Username: Rjklein4470 Post Number: 146 Registered: 3-2002 |
Jeff Could you give me some pointers on how I should look when I drive my 360, after all I would not want anybody to think I am a poser. That is one reason I got my windows tinted. I was tierd of people looking, pointing asking me to roll down the window so they could ask, How much was that car. For me I get in my car to shed the stress of my day, to get away for a bit. Now when I am getting gass or getting out of the car, and somebody would like to know more about the car, I will take all the time in the world to share my F-Car. I am sure you are getting some heat for your comments. Here in Indy you never know who has money, I have had some one come to my office in cut offs, and flip flops who turned out to be one big fish. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 620 Registered: 2-2001 |
Jeff, your coments are pretty idiotic. Maybe your comments stem from the fact that you can only afford an older Ferrari? Regardless, if everyone thought like you, nobody would buy new Ferrari. Please try not to insult somebody just because they own a newer Ferrari than you. To echo Willis' comments, look at the photo in my profile. Am I a poser who rented my 360 for the day? Ernesto | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 882 Registered: 8-2001 |
Ok, Jeff. Look at my picture in the profile. Can you tell if I'm a poseur or not? Is my car a rental? | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
New member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2002 |
Here in Vegas new Ferraris are fairly common but 99.9% of the time they are rentals from exotic rentals for $300 a day whith some guy from where ever prentending to be someone hes not When I see a new Ferrari or Porsche I think its a poser who is leasing the car which even a bartender or hairstylist can afford if they really want one here You can tell the posers by they way they look driving them with there shallow look at me I'm better body language and facial expressions Older Ferraris and others are a different story they are owned by enthusiests who know cars and are not interested in the latest mee too also caring less what others think and are not putting on a facade | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Member Username: Manu Post Number: 390 Registered: 2-2002 |
Ross - you're in the perfect position to understand my point - I think this feeling only exists because my own car is gone now.....  Jeffrey - I can't email you mate - it keeps bouncing back! Could you email me another address. | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Junior Member Username: Ross Post Number: 237 Registered: 3-2002 |
manu, i know your feeling but.....i have gotten over that bit of resentment and now just enjoy the fact that i can always see something interesting when i am walking or driving around london. it is definetely a question of money in a smallish area, and i have seen it all over; geneva, monaco, newport, naples etc. the exclusivity of the marque still exists for everywhere else in the world; try driving your fcar anywhere into the back country across europe and you will find people pointing, taking pictures, little boys running after you down the street, girls giving you phone numbers.....all of the cliches. | ||
| James Selevan (Jselevan)
Junior Member Username: Jselevan Post Number: 74 Registered: 6-2002 |
If exclusivity is of concern to someone, perhaps they should move to the Czech republic. Please read the thread concerning the digital clock in the 360 Modena (Technical Disccusion). Milan offers that there are approximately 8 Ferraris in the country. Sounds like a bit too many for some. | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Member Username: Manu Post Number: 388 Registered: 2-2002 |
Willis - I think you've hit the nail on the head. | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 881 Registered: 8-2001 |
I think the "loss of exclusivity" comments are from those who were desensitized by their unusual regular viewing of various Ferraris. I think they've lost sight of WHERE they've seen the cars (the financial district of London, Cannes, Monaco, give me a break) and forgot that to the REAL WORLD, Ferraris, of any model, are still very rare cars. | ||
| Scott A. B. Collins (Scott)
Junior Member Username: Scott Post Number: 64 Registered: 6-2001 |
I have to make a defensive 360 comment as well. Loved the cars since junior high school. Have Ferrari books, models and other stuff I have accumulated through the years. Finally became financially stable enough to lease a car. Wanted a 348, but drove it, the 355, the 512TR, and the 360. The 360 blew me away, and I stretched to afford it. I fell into no dot.com money, and picked the car based on driving dynamics. It sees the track regularly. I didn't look at the 12 cylinder cars seriously because the increased maintainence costs scared me a bit. Further, the 3 360 owners I know personally are all into driving their cars, and are the farthest things from posers. I know they are out there, but respect those of us who drive the tires off our 360's and love doing it. BTW, if I can save the dough, my next car is a 275. | ||
| nick Berry (Nickb)
New member Username: Nickb Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2002 |
I am puzzled by the statement of lack of exclusivity. Ferrari only imports into North America 1200 Ferrari's a year. Why would anyone think the car has lost its exclusivity? | ||
| John Pelliccio (Giovanni_p)
New member Username: Giovanni_p Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2002 |
Was I the only person who didn't know what "cynosure" meant? | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Junior Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 158 Registered: 5-2002 |
Of course today's super tuned Honda will just be another worthless piece of forgotten junk rusting at the bottom of a scrap metal pile 10 or 15 years from now, maybe only 5 years from now. But after over 20 years of junkyard scrounging, I have NEVER seen a Ferrari wasting away at the bottom of a scrap pile. Real people know real value in a real world. (My, that sounds poetic doesn't it?) | ||
| Chris Coleman (Dmc4cc)
New member Username: Dmc4cc Post Number: 42 Registered: 2-2001 |
How hippocritical, read on. You criticize every tuned Honda with outrageous wings and body kits. WHether you admit it or not a well built "rice rocket" is an exclusive head turner, and you don't like that he gets attention for a 2.0 litre ~200hp~ honda. Then you want to be the cynosure, the one car everyone looks to which no nobody else can have. Aren't you and the Honda's seeking the same thing: the ability to turn heads and be exclusive? Of course exclusivity should ultimately be beyond skin deep. Having a head turner is one thing, having a car that deserves head turning is another. For example F40 kit cars in no way deserve head turning. In some ways I'd say a large percentage of Ferrari's don't deserve head turning merely because of the Drivers: 80% are self indulgent yuppies who never drive their Ferrar like it was intended and sneer at any 17 year old kid who wants to ride in the F-car. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Junior Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 141 Registered: 8-2002 |
WOW! I hadn't heard that rumor yet. In fact, I'm not sure what I think of it yet (not that it matters). All I can say is, wow. | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 424 Registered: 2-2002 |
Good point. So how will this affect Ferrari: http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns06899.html I guess conflict of interest isn't a big subject in racing, especially in Europe, but how would you feel if the Ecclestone's owned the company? | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Junior Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 133 Registered: 8-2002 |
Bill, in 1984 Chrysler purchased a 15.6% equity in Officine Alfieri Maserati SpA. They sold the equity off in August of 1988. I know you are thinking of the relationship that produced the "TC by Maserati" and indeed that came in 1989, after Chrysler no longer had a stake in the Italian auto maker. The point I am making is that a lack of profitability has caused many of the exotic car manufacturers to build crap, either from a lack of R&D money or from not being able to stand up to their larger, wealthier, bean counting, committee-ran parent companies that know nothing about what makes a car exotic. It has happened to Maserati, Lotus, and even Lamborghini (remember the Espada?) at one point or another. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2652 Registered: 5-2001 |
I lived in Monaco and there is a dime a dozend as well. Never thought ill if that though. Here in Miami, especially in the area I live and work are multiple Ferrari owners and lots of Ferrari visitors that come to the famous Bal Harbour Shops (Rodeao Drive of the East). Never thought ill of that either. I am happy when I see them. Actually here in my office building is another 360 Spider owner who finally just rented a spot under the building and not the car is parked daily opposite of my car. The more the better. It is still an exclusive car. | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Junior Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 92 Registered: 4-2002 |
I agree with L. Wayne. Although production of modern Ferraris is higher, I think there was (and to some extent still is) a tendency to not drive them. The lack of road sightings is more due to garage-queen-itis than low production numbers. Hence apparent exclusivity. Now-a-days (gee, I'm sounding like my father), people seem to be driving them more, making road sightings more common. Mine is a real common sight in this small town. As far as production rarity, it is evident that Ferrari wants to limit production. To gain volume and financial viability, they recreated Maserati. | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 422 Registered: 2-2002 |
L. Wayne: Chrysler never owned Maserati. They had a marketing agreement. Chrysler did own Lamborghini. | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Member Username: Manu Post Number: 387 Registered: 2-2002 |
Jeffrey - how are you mate - glad to hear from you! Will send an email and lets see how we can work this! RobF - what you said is SPOT ON about London. - Tim - it's sort of a moot point but spreading ownership WILL dilute the passion we have for these cars - Seeing them ALL THE TIME will make them less special - I was reading a thread earlier where people were saying that even using the Ferrari they own as the daily driver does take something away. They're special - why? Part of it is EXTREME rarity - if performance was all then Porsches would be just as special. How rare is a Lamborghini? Take the Diablo - how many have you guys seen during normal road use since Jan 1st of this year? I would imagine it would be a VERY low number sooo... and IMO that is ONE of the reasons we all snap round when we see one..... Guys here is the crux of my point - A Ferrari in Monaco? No big deal - you're just the next man - and that's a pity. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1420 Registered: 6-2001 |
F--- exclusivity, a ferrari will still be a ferrari. I dont see what the problem is, whether there are 10 or 10,000. Sure it means a bit more if they are rare, but who cares as long as they drive the same way. I want a sportscar that first performs, all the other garbage comes 2nd. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 607 Registered: 6-2001 |
Manu: If you think there is no exculsivity with Ferraris in London because you see an occassional 360, etc. Try Marin County California. Population about 250k, Ferraris: at least 500, maybe 1000. There isn't a day when I commute when I don't see a Ferrari also commuting. Ferrari of San Francisco is located in Mill Valley, Marin County, they sell 100 - 150 new cars per year, almost all in the County and they sell perhaps double that used, again almost all in Marin County. They are priced to keep them out of the hands of the almost rich, but it hasn't seemed to work. IMHO. Art | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Junior Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 131 Registered: 8-2002 |
The reality is that, in the past, Ferraris were high maintanence, noisy, uncomfortable, unreliable and totally impractical cars to own. The vast majority of people who could afford them would rather buy something more comfortable (MBenz) or more practical (Porsche). Ferraris were only for die-hard enthusiasts or, unfortunately, the newly-wealthy, "look what I've got" crowd. With the introduction of the 355/456/550 models, Ferraris became much more reliable, comfortable, quiet, and practical than before (think 308-348, 400/412 and TR models). While it means that more people are buying (and more owners are actually DRIVING) F-cars, it also means that Ferrari is a strong enough company to continue to stand on its own with less interference from parent Fiat and Fiat's possible future parent, GM. Think of the crap that carried the Maserati name during its years as a Chrysler entity. So, while it means less exclusivity (believe me, I live in L.A.!), it probably means the survival of the marque as it should be and the continued ability of Ferrari to develop and realease VERY EXCLUSIVE, limited production models like the Enzo. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Junior Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 155 Registered: 5-2002 |
Back in the 60s, I remember that seeing a Corvette on the road was a very rare occasion. Only the rich folks could afford them, and there weren't that many made. Nowadays, you can see newer Corvettes by the dozens any day of the week. What does this say about society? To me, it says that many average people have now become affluent enough to afford a Corvette or other expensive car. Since when is prosperity a bad thing? Maybe Ferrari is headed down that road. After all, Ferrari is in the business to sell cars. Are they unhappy that many more people can now afford them? I doubt it. | ||
| Mike Burke (Maranlo550)
New member Username: Maranlo550 Post Number: 7 Registered: 6-2002 |
Mr. Robbins, I believe I saw you cruising in your 911 Turbo a few weeks back. We were facing each other at the intersection of Rt.33 & Riverside Green. The reason I believe it was you, is I saw the same driver in a red 550 Maranello sometime back. Knowing what state you live in, I doubt there are too many 550 Maranello AND 911 Turbo owners in my area. See ya around. Michael | ||
| Ansgar Schürmeyer (Taunus)
New member Username: Taunus Post Number: 34 Registered: 6-2002 |
4000 cars are build by ferrari per year. De Montezemolo says, that it is enough to take care for exclusivity. | ||
| Robert Foskett (Robf)
New member Username: Robf Post Number: 50 Registered: 10-2001 |
I work in the City of London every day. I see maybe 1 Ferrari per week, often none at all. I think that the reason you see more in London is that it has a population of 7 million, all packed into a comparatively small area (maybe 30X30 miles). That means there are more people with the money to own one per square mile. Also its the financial centre of the UK so more wealth is available. The statistic I use to remind myself of Ferrari exclusivity is that in 1987, Porsche made more cars that year than Ferrari had made in its entire 40 year history. I don't think output has risen significantly, so with only a few exceptions it truly is an exclusive car, however many you might happen to see at one time. | ||
| Jeffrey Robbins (Teachdna)
Junior Member Username: Teachdna Post Number: 64 Registered: 9-2001 |
Well, just got back from my first trip ever to London (Manu: had a great time meeting you and A.J.- a wonderful meal) and I also was struck by the number of wonderful cars just tooling around the streets. I�ve never seen so many Porsches in one place, except at Porsche meets! Only saw three Ferraris, however, which is 2 more than I�ve seen in mid-Ohio in 7 years on the road, so I can�t comment on Manu�s point about there being too many. But I still think that when one goes by, peoples� heads turn, so I�m not sure any exclusivity has been lost yet, even in London. Manu, are you going to be able to get any of those exhaust sounds onto the �Net? | ||
| djmonk (Davem)
Junior Member Username: Davem Post Number: 86 Registered: 1-2002 |
Im stateside now but as a kid i lived in England, an always cherished visiting London in part because i would always see the coolest cars! | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 879 Registered: 8-2001 |
"fall into a sh*tpot full of money". Interesting comment. I earned my car through years of hard work. As for being a new Ferrari fan, I've loved the marque since I was 11 years old (fan for 25+ years now). Why get a 360? Maybe because it's the best sports car Ferrari build right now. The 575M is a heavy, GT car. Hang around in posh places all the time and you will see a lot of Ferraris. | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Junior Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 75 Registered: 7-2002 |
I am in no way trashing ferraris or their owners. I would rather drive or see a beat up f-car or see 100 360's than any other car in the world. You're right there is nothing like it and you can't blame ferrari for trying to sell as many as they can. they are a company for pete sakes. also, when you think about it you may see 3 360's in a day, but how many corvettes do you see, porsches etc. TONS of them! I doubt ferraris will ever be as common as a vette. If so, start praying because armagedon is here. | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Member Username: Manu Post Number: 386 Registered: 2-2002 |
The numbers of the cars we see don't detract in any way from the experience, of course - just being a passenger in a well driven 360 is simply staggering - a sensational experience - from behind the wheel 99.9% of the time, you wouldn't care - but..... well... I hope you guys know what I'm trying to get at. | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Junior Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 169 Registered: 10-2001 |
Thats why the 360 has been called the .commer ferrari .. I agree with you , we see too many 355/360 and they arent special anymore. Just last week in Cannes i saw 5 360 Spider in about 100 meters..! Fortunately 550/575/456 arent as common as the V8's . But i guess you forget all this once you mash the pedal in a 355/360 and enjoy the soundtrack ! | ||
| Frank Foster (Sparta49)
Junior Member Username: Sparta49 Post Number: 64 Registered: 3-2001 |
Think back to Gone in 60 Seconds. When Nick Cage was in th F dealership and said he "didn't wan tto be a self indulgent weiner" but if he had a 275 GTB he would be a conniseur | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Junior Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 70 Registered: 7-2002 |
This may not be politically correct either. I like the 360's, but feel that everyone who owns one is a brand new ferrari fan who just happened to fall in to a sh*tpot full of money. I see 360's everywhere. I rarely see a TR, Boxer, 328, 308 or any of the 80's and older cars. Perhaps production #'s are up so there are simply more out there. Perhaps the quality is so much better now that people can justify paying for one. I don't know. I do understand what you mean though. When I see a 360 I get excited, but when I see a Testarossa (not a 512TR) I go balistic! | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Member Username: Manu Post Number: 385 Registered: 2-2002 |
Don't hate me for this thread guys - it's not particularly Politically Correct. Either way, hanging around in central London has started to actually irritate me a little. Aside from the (quite literally) endless Porsches... I feel I see TOO MANY Ferraris. Part of the ownership experience is having something special - call it individual. Evidently the market mechanism dictates that limited numbers of people can buy fantastically expensive cars but either way do you any of you think that Ferrari are perhaps building too many units each year? Go in to central London and you'll see loads (relatively speaking) of 360 Modenas, and plenty of 355s with the odd 348. What you will not see are many V12s or indeed many older V8 Ferraris (but they are still present). I really do want to have something no-one else has got - essentially my point is this - how special is a Ferrari in Monaco?? It's not really an expression of you indivualism is it? Seeing a fellow Ferrari driver when you are in the Ferrari yourself, is nice - typically you get a wave and a smile and feel as if you are part of some special club. BUT when the driver is a poseur and doesn't wave back (and acts like a prick) then this enthusiast feeling goes out of the window and you may catch yourself wishing ownership was even more exclusive and the cars were more expensive putting them beyond the reach of the "want to display my wealth" segment of the market.... not sure this would successful anyhow. Sorry about the rant. |