| Author | Message | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2711 Registered: 5-2001 |
Challenge ECU's lighter flywheel muffler relacements lighter wheels (reason why they look like the regular axle is the wheels, axle is actually wider track, Speciale) and much more | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2710 Registered: 5-2001 |
Okay guys, I drove thec ar this Saturday myself. It definetely has more HP than my stock TS. It definetely has a better pick up and more torque. I do not believe though that the car has actually 80HP more. More like 50 is the number I believe. Still a great buy giving you get an extra set of rims, two exhausts (stock and straight pipe muffler (or lack thereof) plus the light bulge muffler currently on and some other parts. The seats are awesome. Racing seats with leather coverings made by Ferrari. Full interior and AC works great (we needed that...) The car was originally red delivered stock, then re-painted to yellow for the racing conversion and last year re-painted back to orginal red. You can not tell the difference. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Junior Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 177 Registered: 8-2002 |
Okay, Frank. I see that you're an attorney. I'm just a car guy. Believe me, I don't want a debate with you. I concede. If you insist, there is no difference between the 348's unibody and the 360's tubular space-frame. All the same thing. Sorry, Bruno, I tried. ;P | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1257 Registered: 9-2001 |
L.Wayne, if you take all the body panels off of a 360 it will collapse like a pancake. The only real difference with the "space frame" nomenclature of a 360 as compared to a traditional unibody is the fact that the 360 has a removable subframe to service the engine. On the other had if you do the same thing to a 328 or earlier model it will roll around like a car. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Junior Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 176 Registered: 8-2002 |
Frank, I was waiting for someone to say that they are the same thing. From the Dictionary of Automotive Terms: unibody construction: A manufacturing process where sheet metal body parts are combined with stress-bearing elements to form the body and chassis as a single piece, as opposed to attaching body parts to a frame. See unitized construction and unitary construction space frame: A type of frame construction which has high rigidity for its low weight. It is used with some racing and low production cars. It is made up of several lengths of tubing welded into a strong, light web-like structure to which the engine, suspension, and other components are attached. While engineers look at a space-frame as a type of frame construction, the body shop side of the business sees it as a type of unibody construction. Wherever you want to classify it, it is different than a standard unibody in that a unibody uses stamped or formed sheet metal pieces welded together, while a space frame uses lighter and stronger steel or aluminum tubing (hence, Bruno's referring to the car as "tubular"). In the spirit of scientific accuracy of all things, including driveway angles, etc., I present the following from a book called "Auto Collision Technology":   That said, I think that if this car really dynos at 380hp, is street legal, and has just had a recent engine-out service, I'm sure that it will be worth 50 grand to someone out there. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1255 Registered: 9-2001 |
A space-frame is the same thing as a unibody. While the car has a partial frame to attach body panels to, the body itself is a stressed part of the vehicle. The 360 does not have a seperate frame with unstressed body panels like 328 and earlier models had. I obtained this information from the Ferrari of Atlanta independant body shop. Pirkle Auto Body. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2670 Registered: 5-2001 |
BobD, I would agree with you completely but since I know the owner I know that he drives the car on a frequent basis although not many Miles. So the car gets the exercise. It has also just been redone and lots of parts exchanges. New seals one of them. As for the possible more racing histroy, there is none, again, I trust the owner here fully. He is very reputable and owns many other cars, including 3 NASCARS that he frequently puts on the track and also owned (till a few days ago) the 355 Tommy Hilfinger Challange car No28. As for the 1991 Challenge Car. Well these do not exist in US cars unless they were modified for Euro racing. The factory Challenge cars were produced in 1993 and 1994. Those that were street Challenge cars factory made are here in the US because of importation cocerns, the reason why all factory Challenge came to the US in street versions and were then converted to Challenge or left at street. The Speciale subframe, I looked at the same. if you look at my car from the rear you will see the 1 1/4 inch spacers (30mm) bring the wheels right out. I do not know why this is the case here. I am sure though that it is true and he will have the papers to prove it. As for the HP, the car has not been dyno'd. Something that should be done. The 380 is an estimate based on the performance items the car has had put into. Exhaust 20HP, delete CATS about 20HP, ignition electric chip 30HP and odds and ends another 10HP. It may be much less but the car is definetely faster than my stock 348. Dave, the price you are bringing is right. The 89 TB should not fetch more than actually $45K. Giving this is one with just an engine out service done I would rate it closer to the $50K mark. So yes, you are not getting a steal for a 348, the steel comes in the equipment you are getting. | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Junior Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 215 Registered: 1-2002 |
This car looks to me like the proverbial pig in a poke. If it makes a true 380hp, then it is modified way beyond challenge series specs. I had a 94 factory challenge car and can tell you that while it was noticeably more powerful than other 348's, I could not come close to 355's on the track under acceleration. The rules allowed for very little in the way of mods. I believe you could change the cam timing a little using stock cams and that was it. I had the rule book and I'm working from memory. The factory quoted hp on the factory cars at 314. Some people thought that was conservative, but I'm sure they were well under 350. I think a tarted up 89 like this is worth less than an all stock example and an 89 TB would not bring much, if any more than 50K anyway. The quality of work done to this car may or may not be good and with aftermarket ignition, may not pass emissions. Just my thoughts. Dave | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Junior Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 175 Registered: 8-2002 |
Bruno is right. The 360 is built on a tubular aluminum space-frame chassis. | ||
| Tino (Bboxer)
Junior Member Username: Bboxer Post Number: 134 Registered: 8-2001 |
Marcus, Do you stand on your exhaust tips when you dry the roof of your TR. <g> I've seen screwey stock exhausts on F cars but never one like this. Tell me it ain't so or better, get a Tubi ! | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 320 Registered: 1-2002 |
Hook 'em, Horns!  | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 461 Registered: 5-2002 |
Isnt the 360 tubular??????????? | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 460 Registered: 5-2002 |
And thats why I only own the old one's. Just my taste. | ||
| Chris Tanner (Ctanner)
New member Username: Ctanner Post Number: 26 Registered: 5-2001 |
I have a list of 348's that competed in the North American Challenge series. What is the serial # on this car and I will check it against the list? Not many 89's participated. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1254 Registered: 9-2001 |
Bruno, then you will need to buy a 328 or earlier Ferrari. Because ALL Ferraris since the 348 have been unibody construction. | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 453 Registered: 5-2002 |
Only thing I dont like is the same with all 348's. UNIBODY. Yuk what Ferrari has a unibody. | ||
| Chris A. (Asianbond)
New member Username: Asianbond Post Number: 46 Registered: 5-2002 |
Martin, don't get me wrong, I think you're a nice guy based on reading your contributions to this site, but this car sounds too good to be true. Just want to make sure you know what you're selling since your reputation will be based on it. Just to let you know my frame of reference is by currently owning a 91 348 Challenge (not modified for the track). The owner mentioned a Speciale rear subframe that made the rear wider, yet looking at the pics of the rear wheels the offset looked very similiar to a stock 348. My research revealed that Ferrari used a different hub in my 348 Challenge to extend the rear wheels further to fill the wheel well better, this is the first time I heard of a special subframe mentioned. However, I can assure you my rear wheels extend out about another 1 to 2 inches further than the car you have in your pics. Maybe the speedline rims on that car is narrower than stock ones. My 348 Challenge came with a special factory chip and sport exhaust good for an additional 20 hp which brings it to 320 from the stock 300. I'm not sure how this car can deliver 380hp without needing additional work to the heads, cam or larger displacement. It's hard to believe that a trick ignition system can deliver an additonal 60hp. At 380hp that is 355 territory. I'm still a bit confused on whether this was a regular 348 and the owner converted to challenge specs or whether this was a factory-prep 348 challenge that was eventually converted to full challenge specs. In any event, the car sounds like a great buy with all the listed equipment in it, but on the other hand something tells me this car has a longer and tougher history than let on, because if the seller is bs'ing about some items then you're not sure what you can believe. I guess as long as the engine and tranny is sound and the body is straight, I still buy it for 50k since everything else on it is practically new. Cheers. | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 338 Registered: 11-2001 |
College footballs sucks. hahahhaaaaaaa | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 631 Registered: 2-2001 |
Go 'canes! | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 590 Registered: 3-2001 |
CAUTION: LOW MILEAGE CAR!!! Hang on here!!! This is an '89.... a 13 year old 348 with only 13,000 miles? I thought these low mileage cars were terrible? Problems, problems, problems with low mileage cars.... right? Seals, rubber, gaskets.... so why is this one so good? Don't tell me, it was started and run around the block every week by the previous owner, right? I don't get it??? Wouldn't this car be MUCH better if it had at least 40,000 miles on it? Isn't this exactly what you guys have been telling us to stay away from??? | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2665 Registered: 5-2001 |
 | ||
| Marcus Adolfsson (Marcusadolfsson)
Junior Member Username: Marcusadolfsson Post Number: 92 Registered: 10-2001 |
Go Gators!!  sorry for hijacking the thread a little | ||
| Fred (Iluv4res)
Junior Member Username: Iluv4res Post Number: 61 Registered: 8-2002 |
The car looks great except for the Seminoles, FSU, license plate.........Go Gators!!! | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
Member Username: Jjstecher Post Number: 289 Registered: 1-2002 |
Looks like a good deal to me depending on the kind of racing he did the the car. Has it ever been wrecked? I noticed in your last email you listed it was painted for $6000. What did he do to get 380+ hp out of the car? I have dynoed a 348 with a Tubi, SuperChips, K&N, and test pipes and was able to produce 352 on my max pull. He must have done some cam work or had the heads ported and polished, or else he just has one hell of a ingintion system. Is the ignition system a Crane,MSD,Jacobs,etc?? :P | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2661 Registered: 5-2001 |
This is some more info I just got. He said he raced the car. Knowing him I do not believe it was Challenge racing. Will get more detail on that, although he is hioghly qualified to do this kind of racing. Last update: 13,200 miles 1989 348 tb owned previously by a big ferrari collector who built the car for the first year of the challenge but died before he ever raced it. I raced one time in '95 and two times in '96. The seats in now are new,came from my 355 challenge,nobody ever sat in them untill i put them in 6 months ago. Daytona carbon fiber seats-cost $8000.00 speedline wheels,$6000.00 paint job,engine out 500 miles ago for 15k service.New clutch ,new brake pads to replace noisey racing pads.I have original wheels and all challenge equipment.348 series Speciale rear sub frame and axels which was permitted in the challenge to make all the cars equal,makes the rear end of the car wider.This cost the original owner $5000.Ecu computer is challenge for a lot more h.p.Brakes are slotted.Different proportioning valve for better braking.I have decals from challenge if someone want to put it back for shows etc.Also the air condition is all brand new cost me alot of money. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 1979 Registered: 12-2000 |
Raced Challenge 348's usually go for $35-45k. This one might price a little higher because it hasn't been raced and is street legal. This would be a good track/street car if the 1989 kinks have been worked out. | ||
| David (Supraoz)
Junior Member Username: Supraoz Post Number: 139 Registered: 9-2001 |
This is a great car, i drove it and it felt very strong. | ||
| Chuck Babel (Chuck_98_rt10)
New member Username: Chuck_98_rt10 Post Number: 43 Registered: 5-2002 |
This sounds like too good of deal to me. Being a Ferrari virgin can somebody else comment? | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 337 Registered: 11-2001 |
Just out of curiosity, what kind of electric ignition is it, and what else did he do to get that kind of power out of it? | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2659 Registered: 5-2001 |
Hate to bring this on the general discussion but this is such a great offering I had to, sorry! This car was converted to a Challenge car but actually never raced. Speedline Challenge wheels, kevlar seats, rollbar, tricked out electric ignition, sport muffler bringing a total of 380+ HP. This car is fast and furious (no affiliation with the movie, because you can not tell from the outside how mean this car really is) It is street legal and has only 13,000 Miles. owner is asking $ 50,000, this is how much the conversion had cost in the first place!   |