| Author | Message | ||
| Jim Conforti (Lndshrk)
New member Username: Lndshrk Post Number: 7 Registered: 8-2002 |
In short, the chip isn't just "data" or some transfer function.. it's also the program. Now, most of the changes occur in the 'data' and this is what "chip tuning" is about. It's really no different than taking a 'driver to the carbs and a wrench to the distributor. By changing things such as fuel mixture, spark advance, spark dwell, etc you can remove some of the compromises made by the OEM and increase power. The other thing to note, is that by modifying the CODE (which other chip makers don't do) you can actually completely change how the system work. BTW, while there are many "transfer functions" within a chip, it's in fact a STATE MACHINE. (This for the geeks amongst us ;) Jim PS: You'd be surprized how little most chip makers really know.. most of them just HACK at data until they think they are getting the result they want. Serious! | ||
| John Whelan (Fodee)
New member Username: Fodee Post Number: 7 Registered: 10-2001 |
Chris, the F40 wasn't intended to run on US 93 octane gas. The ECU has a knock sensor that retards the timing when it detects detonation. In this case, the Carobu chip might be tuned for 93 octane and may have less radical timing/fueling map. I always run on race gas, or on mix depending upon where I'm driving. You will notice a big difference in performance running race gas just for the fact that the ECU will not retard the timing. That is probably why the tuner chip ran out ot steam at high RPM/boost. A cleaver way of providing an increase in power under real world conditions. Try the chips again with race gas. | ||
| James Selevan (Jselevan)
Junior Member Username: Jselevan Post Number: 139 Registered: 6-2002 |
Jim Comforti - for us propeller heads, could you give us a primer on some of the more technical aspects of "chips". 1) What are the input signals, and what are the outputs? 2) What transducers supply input information, and in what format (digital or analog)? Are there A-to-D converters on the "chips" or are they built into the input transducers? 3) What are the output signals? Are they digital or analog? 4) I assume these are closed-loop systems. The chip represents a transfer function. Is this correct? If so, when "tuning" a chip, are you adjusting gain, bandwidth, or actual transfer function. For example, if mixture is a function of 02 sensor, are you changing the order (e.g., x square to x cubed) of the function, or a coefficient of the original transfer function. 5) Finally, are the changes you introduce to the chip small or large relative to "background noise?" For example, if you introduce a 10% change in frequency response or transfer function coefficient, and the O2 sensor has a sampling error of 10%, have you introduced additional uncertainty in the system. Sorry for these boring questions, but I have heard of chip tuning for years, but have not understood what was being done. Thanks. Jim S. | ||
| Steve Hanis (Steve_hanis)
New member Username: Steve_hanis Post Number: 29 Registered: 5-2002 |
Video is at http://wxfreak.metadns.cx/f40828/ This is on my home machine on a cable modem so download will be relatively slow. About 40KB/s max IF there is only one user. Right click to save to hard drive. | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 415 Registered: 3-2002 |
HI STEVE yes I would love the video. we are running 22lbs of boost on premuim unleaded. HI CHRIS I think your friends and you are correct, each chip has its own strengths. My personal feeling is that the Carobu produces more usable horsepower using the "ass dyno" measurements. Remember the Carobu's are designed for larger turbo's that are not yet installed. the fall off I believe is due to the turbo's spooling quicker with the Carobu's. I think the real test will be with the LM Turbo's. From a drivability issue, even without the LM Turbo's, the Carobu makes more hp faster, therefore I prefer them. HI JOHN! Damn you are speed freak! Motec? yes you are right! Give me sometime to take in what we have done so far! (still scared!) I would love to meet you someday, need to find a common track. Chris | ||
| Steve Hanis (Steve_hanis)
New member Username: Steve_hanis Post Number: 28 Registered: 5-2002 |
Chris, Any estimates on how high you can go on boost running pump gas? What psi are you currently at? I have a mpeg video of the first 2 pulls from 8-28, it's about 30meg if would like it. | ||
| John Whelan (Fodee)
New member Username: Fodee Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2001 |
Imagine what you could do with a data logging ECU that can individually map each cylinder, diagnose any problems, and can be run with your average laptop! Well worth the price of admission since you can remap the engine to account for each driving situation, track, and climate. A MOTEC is what you want! Burned chips are for Frito-Lay! | ||
| Chris Tanner (Ctanner)
New member Username: Ctanner Post Number: 31 Registered: 5-2001 |
Chris, My fellow coworkers and I like the "bench" race cars. Today at lunch, the four of us "bench" raced yours, with the Carobu -vs- the stock chip. Unfortunately, it was difficult for us to come up with a winner with the limited info, but a good case was made for keeping the stock chip and I would like to get your opinion, as well as others on the board. Based on your dyno results, with the Carobu chip, the peak torque and horsepower is about 5500 RPM. With the stock chip, it is at 6300 RPM. At 6800 RPM, the stock chip has more hp. The drag racer in our lunch group likes these changes. The Carobu chip will be faster 0-60. To this all 4 people in my group agree. However, in road racing conditions, opinions vary, but the stock chip seems to get the nod. In road racing, our impression of current thinking is that the higher RPMs attainable, the faster the car. From what limited track experience we do have, the tach always seems to be over 5000 RPM, and on its way to redline. Although you didn't mention what the dyno numbers were out at 8000+ RPM, the stock chip has the edge at 6800, and we are assuming that it maintains that edge to redline. If this is the case, then our line of thinking is that in a road racing environment of high RPMs, the stock chip will actually make for the faster car because it has more horsepower at the engine speeds typically driven. To be competitive, the Carobu chipped car will need to be driven at 5500 RPM, and at this short power band, it may make it difficult to drive the car fast. So, do you have any comments to our interpretation of the results? Have we missed something while eating our fries? What chip do you think makes the faster car? Thanks, Chris | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 347 Registered: 11-2001 |
Wow Chris what a difference a good chip can make. Oh yeah was that the horse power at the wheels? | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 414 Registered: 3-2002 |
Latest F40 Dyno Results: stock Turbo's- Tubi Comp exhaust K&N airfilters Carobu LM chips 455.6 hp 431.0* torque Stock chip 440.5 hp 367.7* torque * part of the difference must credited to elimination of the TPS manual wastegate control valve that was replaced with the factory electronic contol unit. The Carobu chip produced huge changes in low rpm horsepower, 70 more hp at 5,000rpm over the stock chip. We did have a horsepower drop at about 6,800 rpm over the stock chip as the stock turbo's could not keep up with the carobu chips ( this is a good tradeoff as you gain so much mid range hp and torque with the Carobu chip, this is exactly what we were promised). The Carobu chips are designed to run with larger LM turbo's, we will install the LM turbo's over the next week or so, as time permits. Since we are currently at 455hp I am wondering if 500hp and 450lbs is possible, we will see! I will post the next dyno run with the LM Turbo's as soon as possible Chris | ||
| John L. Jordan Jr. (Up2nogd)
New member Username: Up2nogd Post Number: 39 Registered: 8-2002 |
Any chips available for a 1986 328 GTS?? | ||
| Chris Coleman (Dmc4cc)
New member Username: Dmc4cc Post Number: 44 Registered: 2-2001 |
I can vouch for Jim Comforti's work in 2 areas: This man is a legend among BMW tuners. Had a '91 M5 that could use a little more power, put Comforti's chip in it and WHAM, instant results. The ass dyno (measured by what you feel) definitely noticed a huge bump in power, and 0-60 times dropped to about 5.7 seconds (G-tech got low 6's before). THe chip claims about a 39 hp increase I believe, and I cannot tell how much power the chip really added, but I can tell its a huge difference whatever it is. | ||
| Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
Member Username: Ernie Post Number: 342 Registered: 11-2001 |
Jim when you finally crack the codes, how difficult/easy is it to improve the performace yet stick to the emission standards. I have a 348 and have thought of trying a performace chip. The problem is that I'm in California, and everyone knows that Cali has the toughest emissions rules in the U.S. On a similar subject. My car is having comupter problems, as was kindly pointed out to me by Chris at the Buttonwillow event. I was wondering if you can fix the problem with a new chip or does the entire computer need to be replaced? | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 406 Registered: 3-2002 |
Tim, We installed CAROBU LM chips today. We found the old chips were made by TPS of Florida, they were actually making 81hp less horsepower than the factory chips we tested last week! In addition, TPS used a brass by-pass valve to try and "trick" the wastegate to make more horsepower by by-passing the factory electronic wastegate control. This valve was leaking, never allowing the wastegate to accept full boost. We knew we were 60lbs down on torque but could not find it, I think we just did. This TPS brass valve will be located on the rear right upper frome rail in the engine compartment with a hose going in either side. just in front and slightly lower is the factory electronic boost control, re-attach the hoses to it. We went back to the factory wastegate controls and for the first time we got full boost DAMN! FUN! We go back to the dyno tomorrow to see if our "pants" are telling the truth! I will let you know the dyno results. Friday we will start putting on LM turbo's and one more dyno run next week. | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 402 Registered: 3-2002 |
I just found out what chips I have in the F40, they are TPS Total Performance Systems out of Florida. I can tell you that in my car, they make significantly LESS horsepower than stock chips. I do not know these people are, but I can not reccomend them for a F40! Chris | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 623 Registered: 6-2001 |
Jim: I've only worked on race vehicles. I don't know about the legal requirements, just how to tune these to get the best package together to make the vehicle work the best. When I quit racing, I'd gotten a couple of championships, and now that I sponsor a younger rider, we haven't won anything (championships) but have alway been in the hunt (fastest, but either break or crash, with an occassional win). I've seen the tuning up close and personal, and can say that most of what I've seen has been something that I wouldn't use. Art | ||
| Jim Conforti (Lndshrk)
New member Username: Lndshrk Post Number: 5 Registered: 8-2002 |
Art, I have no experience with the motorcycle D/J, but can assure you that isn't the case with the "car" D/Js. BTW, you *can* fit a DynoJet with the needed equipment to hold a constant load for part throttle tuning, but realize that you are legally restricted in WHAT of the part throttle area you can tune. Most tuners don't touch part throttle regardless of the drivel they print in glossy color. This is mainly due to staying away from emissions law violations. Once you reverse engineer the code, you can look at exactly where the O2 sensors are active and keep your sticky fingers out of that area. ;) Jim | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 622 Registered: 6-2001 |
Jim: Chassis dynos are probably not as accurate as an engine dyno, but we make do with what we have. However the Dyno jet is not as accurate (IMHO) as another type of dyno. The Dyno jet does give a good idea about full throttle acceleration, but fails in my opinion in accurately showing what is happening at partial throttle settings, or settings under heavy load (such as high gear acceleration). In marginal situations, you are more apt to get detoniation after using the dyno jet, I have seen this problem with motorcycles, and suspect that the same will hold true with 4 wheels. Art | ||
| Robert Ziino (F355bob)
New member Username: F355bob Post Number: 9 Registered: 8-2002 |
I have a chip from AutoSport Design that was used on Challenge cars on my 95 F355 and I can feel the difference in mid range torque. They no longer make the chip, but I had heard they had cracked the chip code of Ferrari and then designed the chip. | ||
| Joseph Caretti (Pino)
Junior Member Username: Pino Post Number: 75 Registered: 4-2002 |
RJK: Try www.audiworld.com Tons of useful Audi info. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 346 Registered: 1-2002 |
Sure...Take out 3 of the 4 seats, most of the interior bits, the interior soundproofing, the climate control system, the spare tire, etc. That should get rid of about 1000 lbs--a good equivalent to another 100 hp!  | ||
| Robert Jude Klein (Rjklein4470)
Junior Member Username: Rjklein4470 Post Number: 156 Registered: 3-2002 |
Ok since we are on the chip subject, I have a Audi A6 4.2 that I would like to make go really fast, any body know what can be done | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 339 Registered: 1-2002 |
Jim, Not really the wrong business... I made a little bit when PLAT was sold to CA, but I used the money to short-sell the heck out of a whole bunch of tech companies & dot-coms in late 1999 & early 2000. I figured, when CNBC was then interviewing NYC cabbies who were day-trading dot com stocks from laptops in their cabs, the NASDAQ bubble was about to burst. It's nice to make a healthy profit from being right, for once! | ||
| Jim Conforti (Lndshrk)
New member Username: Lndshrk Post Number: 4 Registered: 8-2002 |
Art, Actually, the only real way to tune a motor is out of the car, and on a engine dyno. I will say that the Dynojet is however miles ahead of any "load" dyno for measuring what the vehicles actual perf. on the "street" will be. This is because of the fact that the DJ actually runs the vehicle at somewhere near street loads, and hence the acceleration is similar, making the inertial loss quite comparable. Robert, To my knowledge NO ONE has cracked the F360, but I'm working on it. The hard part is finding a spare (but programmed as in out of Wrecked 360) DME to "research" on. Jim | ||
| Robert Jude Klein (Rjklein4470)
Junior Member Username: Rjklein4470 Post Number: 148 Registered: 3-2002 |
Chris, or anybody involved in this topic, are there any tuners that will do a chip for a 360. Rob | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 618 Registered: 6-2001 |
Chris: The art of tuning with the Chip is one that Motorcyclists have been using for quite a while. The Ducatis and now the Japanese equipment has injection, and we began tuning them in the late 80s, early 90s. My friend Mark Salvisberg at Factory Pro, uses his Dyno, with various sensors, and a computer to burn various chips to obtain performance advantages on the motorcycles. He has been pestering me about tuning the Ferrari, but I don't think that the Ferrari will fit on his Dyno. I do know that most tuners use the DynoJet equipment, and from what I have learned, that can be a major cause of the vehicle not running right because the DynoJet does not put an adequate load on the equipment, and thus you don't get a real world improvement after you change the fuel curve, etc. Very few places use a Dyno that can put a load on the vehicle at all rpms, not just through the acceleration curve at full throttle. Art | ||
| David Jones (Dave)
Member Username: Dave Post Number: 271 Registered: 4-2001 |
I wish it were that simple a performance upgrade....But the only chips in my 308 were under the seat from the last owner... I do have a 91 BMW 325ix that I have thought about changing the chip in.... | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 334 Registered: 1-2002 |
See you next weekend at MSR, Chris. But I'll be bringing the M3 & not the 550 this time. I'll take the 550 to TWS in October. | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 393 Registered: 3-2002 |
Thank you Steve! I should have the CAROBU LM chips by Tuesday. I told Tate (CAROBU ENGINEERING) I would review the results of our dyno run with him fist, before I posted it here, (in case there an anomloy with the specific chips) Tate was adamint that I not do that! Rare in todays business world, he wants the real world results posted, if they do not perform, return them for a full refund. Hey, that is the way it should be done, but very few "tuners" will actually refund your money if the product fails to perform. I do not know Jim Conforti, but based on comments in this thread, I suspect he has a similiar business ethic. You do meet excellent people on FERRARICHAT! Chris | ||
| Steve Hanis (Steve_hanis)
New member Username: Steve_hanis Post Number: 21 Registered: 5-2002 |
Chris, is was nice to meet you. Gota couple of good pulls for my video collection. I can't wait to see what that monster can do on higher boost. | ||
| billy bob (Fatbillybob)
New member Username: Fatbillybob Post Number: 22 Registered: 8-2002 |
Jim Posted : "In a few months, we're going to release a new version of our DME Editor which will let the owner tune his own car. Jim" Does this mean one could compy his chips in some kind of soft RAM and then alter the parts he wants? So where do I sign up? | ||
| Jim Conforti (Lndshrk)
New member Username: Lndshrk Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2002 |
Excuse that I'm going to answer all the Q's in on email ;) First, Dave.. how've you been?? Nope haven't spoken to Jorge.. but yes to his bro. I see I'm in the wrong business though ;) Mitchel, I've been working on Ferrari stuff for a while.. it's my next project actually simply because of my love for the cars. Matthew, yes, the Mini is on the list to do and we should have an Injector for it next spring | ||
| Christian (Christiank)
Member Username: Christiank Post Number: 405 Registered: 1-2001 |
I own a Porsche 944 turbo and there are always great discussions going on at the www.rennlist.com boards. If I would own a F40 I would neither buy a high performance chip nor run 30 PSI of boost. It is not that important how much performance you gain but rather how healthy the engine is running. Both lean and rich is not good. You need to know all components of a custom chip, air/fuel ratio is one very important factor. | ||
| Matthew Jenson (Moab355)
New member Username: Moab355 Post Number: 36 Registered: 9-2001 |
Hey Jim, I live in SLC and am wondering if you are going to do a chip for the Mini Cooper S? | ||
| Mitchel DeFrancis (4re308)
Member Username: 4re308 Post Number: 637 Registered: 6-2001 |
Jim, great to have you on this board! My friend Chris in New York got your chip on his E30 325is about 2 years ago, and he still talks about it. He loves your stuff, maybe you need to market some Ferrari chips? | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1294 Registered: 2-2001 |
Chris, a friend of mine here in CT has an F40 also. He said he was running like 30 lbs of boost & making around 700 hp | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 329 Registered: 1-2002 |
Jim, welcome to this board!! I can vouch for Jim's quality of work on BMW's. My 97 M3 has his DME programming, and it made a VERY noticeable difference with no glitches or weak areas of the power band, although I have never taken the car to a dyno. BTW, Jim, have you had any contact with Jorge Costa lately? You might remember, I'm the guy who used to live in Dallas & who worked with him back in 1998-1999, when I communicated with you by email? | ||
| Jim Conforti (Lndshrk)
New member Username: Lndshrk Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2002 |
Being that this is a Ferrari board, I'd rather not wear out my welcome on BMW things. In short, the M3 Injector comes out this fall, and no intake tested has done a thing. Jim | ||
| shahin tabassi (Shahin)
New member Username: Shahin Post Number: 33 Registered: 4-2002 |
hey jim whats the status on the chip for e46 m3? Any plans for intake? | ||
| Jim Conforti (Lndshrk)
New member Username: Lndshrk Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2002 |
Chris, You may (or may not) know who I am. I'm the guy who cracked all the OBD-II BMW's and tuned them properly. My work was featured in the NY Times a while back. I've also done some Ferrari, mostly for racing in the U.K. I'm not sure why they were racing 456 GT's but they were ;) Anyway.. on performance chips.. for ANY car, the problem is that most "tuners" haven't a clue because they don't fully reverse engineer the code. They only try to find out "enough to make a product". I don't think that's the right way to do the work. To do it right, takes time and money. To make a point, when a certain over-wealthy and under-patient F50 owner kept trying to rush my research.. well he got shown the door. (I only say that to make a point that *some* of us won't compromise the engineering for anything nor anyone) BTW, since you do OWN a Ferrari, with the other owners permission, you could copy the other stock chips for the grand sum of about $15. They are NOT "special" chips. In a few months, we're going to release a new version of our DME Editor which will let the owner tune his own car. Jim | ||
| John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
Member Username: Jjstecher Post Number: 296 Registered: 1-2002 |
Chris damn good detective work captin!! Havent talked to you in a while and just wanted to drop you a hello and tell you that your F40 is looking better than ever in the pictures on here a while ago. Back to the dyno stuff... first off how could we ever get sick of hearing about the F40 and secondly I have to say that I have never found a company that sells chips for Ferraris that actually work besides SuperChips over in the UK. Most of the other ones tinker with all the low RPM fuel curves and neglect the high RPM area leading to the performance curve you saw with power dropping drasticly past 6500RPM's. SuperChips from what I understand have tested each ECU mapping on the actual car and stand behind their chips...everyone else says that they "burn in" a optimized and tested fuel curve. This is complete BS because I use to have a friend that worked a place in FLA that did tuning for Lotus's and what not and they use to have a "burn in" fuel curve too for chips, he said the fuel curve was sheer guess work. He quit his job a few weeks later and now works for another reputable shop in FLA. Anyhoo good to hear about more dyno adventure! Take it easy man. | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 391 Registered: 3-2002 |
I just got back from the dyno with the F40 (I know you are tired of hearing about the F40) However, the last time we ran it on the dyno, we still had cats on the car. Now we have straight exhaust. I wanted to see if we increased power without the cats. We did, we went from 430.3hp to 430.7, an .4hp increase. Not much! My car had been "chipped" when I bought it, I do not know who developed the chip, but I always suspected it was not giving me the performace I needed. Tonight we swapped computers and put in "stock" chips. Previously, maximum hp was 430.5 at 6500rpm. Interestingly we had 340.5hp at 7500rpm with the "performace" chip, with the "stock" chip we had 431.9hp at 7500rpm. The stock chip produced 81.4hp more at 7500rpm! Maximum hp increased to 440.5, the stock chip produced 10 more maximum hp and 81 more hp at 7500rpm, The "performace" chip did not perform! Next week I am going to install LM IHI Turbo's. I have Been talking with Tate at CAROBU ENGINEERING in Costa Mesa, CA. I have a lot of respect for his advice. Since I do not have the original chips, I would have to buy 2 new computers to get them (about $4,000). I am going to buy LM chips from CAROBU to replace the chips I have. I will dyno first with my borrowed "stock" chips and the new LM turbo's. After I get that reading, I will then add the CAROBU ENGINEERING LM chips, I will let you know how this turns out. My advice for now, do not buy performace chips unless you have seen the dyno sheets! I will post results next Wdnesday. Chris |