| Author |
Message |
Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Member
Username: Manu
Post Number: 424
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Monday, September 09, 2002 - 5:34 am: | |
In absolute agreement with you here Ross.
A flagship V12 Ferrari ought to be just about the best drivers car available in the world.....
For some, more crucially, at a massive �65,000 more expensive than an SL55 - it ought to be more than just a little superior. |
ross koller (Ross)
Member
Username: Ross
Post Number: 271
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, September 09, 2002 - 3:56 am: | |
jim, its a 'relative' comment, and the 575 has been judged by professionals and morons as being inferior to much more mundane machinery. is the 575 superior to a chevy nova, of course; should it be hands down superior to an sl55? in my opinion yes, but thats not what has happened, and as a tifosi that bothers me. |
David Jones (Dave)
Member
Username: Dave
Post Number: 316
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 4:58 pm: | |
Why does a non-performance 2 seater exist anyway?
So you don't have to hear the people in the back seat nag you about how slow your car is! |
Jim E (Jimpo1)
Member
Username: Jimpo1
Post Number: 717
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 4:48 pm: | |
I came into this thread expecting to read about a Miata or MR2, "non performance 2 seater". Who wouldn't guessed it referred to a non-Fiorano 575? I don't know any thinking person that would call it a "non performance" car. |
L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member
Username: Lwausbrooks
Post Number: 300
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 4:38 pm: | |
rolling on the floor laughing my ass off! |
Jeffrey Robbins (Teachdna)
Junior Member
Username: Teachdna
Post Number: 68
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 4:35 pm: | |
All right, Doody, I've got to ask: what the heck does "ROTFLMAO" mean?
Are you really thinking about a 550? Would you keep the 355? |
Mr. Doody (Doody)
Member
Username: Doody
Post Number: 446
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 4:32 pm: | |
schumi apparently WAS involved, but if memory serves, i saw something somewhere where he said that it was more luxo than he would have liked. i was very surprised to hear him say that (true or not) at the time.
doody. |
SteveF (Stevef)
New member
Username: Stevef
Post Number: 45
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 4:28 pm: | |
I don't know how the 575 could be as far off as these mags indicate. Wouldn't schumacher have been involved in the tuning of the car ? |
Mr. Doody (Doody)
Member
Username: Doody
Post Number: 445
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 4:20 pm: | |
[[[5 mins behind a Lambo has them wetting themselves]]]
ROTFLMAO!
doody. |
Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member
Username: Wsawyer
Post Number: 454
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 3:29 pm: | |
Doody: I don't think I said that journalists have mistreated the Maranello, I said that they are CAPABLE of doing so, and therefore we must ultimately depend upon our own judgement.
Looks like we're in violent agreement after all.
(-: |
Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Member
Username: Manu
Post Number: 421
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 9:43 am: | |
Doody - People said that the power of the Murci was unbelievable/stupendous.... yadda yadda - It's a very fast car but as I'm sure you read (from our driving impressions post) or indeed know yourself, I wasn't exactly dying from excitment behind the wheel.
These guys get carried away - I swear that I'm not being a snob, but, day in day out, they drive deisel SUVs etc... 5 mins behind a Lambo has them wetting themselves.....
After the lack of objective analysis behind the wheel of the Lambo ("oh GOD, how quick, how wild-looking, how mad - the perfect car".. and assorted other bullshit) they get into the 575 and their rationality has been miscalibrated and gone out of the window.
So now the 575M which has the F1 shift (which they know they don't like - so why test it anyway?) hasn't been put into sport mode is thrashed for 5 mins (around a randomly selected circuit) and is judged poorly.........
It is possible that they are entirely correct of course.....in which case the guys who asked for these changes at Ferrari SpA will be feeling like idiots as Aston Martin Vanquish and the Lamborghini Murcielago sales go through the roof.
The 550M is one of THE best handling cars of all time - are Ferrari really likely to get it THAT wrong? It's possible but I don't know until I drive it. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 1311
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 9:42 am: | |
The 550/575 is not selling as well as the 360 because there is a new breed of Ferrari buyer out there. The new younger buyers don't remember the Ferraris of the 1960s and 1970s and think of a 308 as a classic Ferarri. They may not of even been born when the Daytona won at Daytona. But, remember, in the early 1970s you could buy a 365GTB4 for less than a 308GT4. In the long run the 550/575 models will far out value the little 360 Dino. I love both the 8 and 12 cylinder models from Maranello. But, all in all I'd rather have a V12. By the way, according to Ferrari the 575 turns a faster lap time at Fiorano than the 360 despict of its weight. |
ross koller (Ross)
Member
Username: Ross
Post Number: 268
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 9:33 am: | |
i agree with manu that you have to experience it yourself. i also agree that many journalists can't drive. however, the autocar article for example was based on the cars being driven by 8 or 9 different professional race car drivers from all sorts of different categories......so that argument is out the window there. i also don't think the 360 and 550 appeal to the same market; thats the whole idea behind offering two such different cars from the same manufacturer. but the most expensive production model should be considered the ne plus ultra of sportscars.....and the 575 is letting us down.
doody understands what i am getting at: ferrari should either toughen up the 575 as standard or be prepared for image damage.
|
Mr. Doody (Doody)
Member
Username: Doody
Post Number: 441
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 9:29 am: | |
bill - on an individual level i agree violently. we all are responsible to ultimately making our own decisions.
if you believe (at least i think you have asserted) that journalists have mistreated the maranello, how do you argue the market behavior where the rubber hits the road, so to speak?
[i'm not picking an argument - it's an honest question. i'm looking at 550s, so i care!]
doody. |
Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member
Username: Wsawyer
Post Number: 452
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 9:22 am: | |
Manu is right. Find out for yourself. There are a few very competent journalists, but most are not people you would take advice from if you met them in a pub and didn't know what they did for a living. The aura of the printed page imparts magical powers that don't exist under the harsh light of reality. |
Mr. Doody (Doody)
Member
Username: Doody
Post Number: 439
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 9:14 am: | |
manu - i think ross was making a more abstract comment. whether or not you and i think the 550/575 is the greatest thing since sliced bread, the marketplace is beating the living crap out of it. who knows exactly why (we can all conjecture), but it clearly isn't holding its own as a seriously desirable GT car.
i agree with ross that it's clear (from a distance - i haven't driven a 575) that they'd be better off having the fiorano package as standard, and the "cushy package" as an option. it'd be more "befitting" a flagship f-car.
all that said, i don't think the 550 sells to the same market as the 360. nobody walks onto the lot and says "hmmmm - 360 or 550". totally different demographics IMO. or at least totally different BPC (buyer purchase criteria).
doody. |
Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Member
Username: Manu
Post Number: 420
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 9:02 am: | |
Ross - I say that we ignore the poor reviews and find out for ourselves. (I mean that).
There is too much inconsistency with the feedback that they're giving. We should make our own judgments. They said the Murcielago was perfect..... yeah right!
My argument....? Ferrari haven't disgraced themselves until I drive the car and my own judgements concur with those of the journos..... |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator
Username: Rob328gts
Post Number: 2064
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 8:55 am: | |
I agree |
ross koller (Ross)
Member
Username: Ross
Post Number: 266
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 06, 2002 - 8:52 am: | |
with all the threads going on about the new 575, without the fiorano package, being panned by everybody, it got me thinking.....why do ferrari even offer a 2 seater flagship that does not perform up to standard ? the luxury gt category would seem to be well covered by the current 456 and its imminent replacement. so why disgrace yourself by offering a car that will be trounced by competition that normally can't touch you? at the very least, the fiorano handling package should be standard, and any loosening of that should be a (paid for?) option.
i know all about the marketing realities etc, but still seems to me that ferrari has forgotten what its all about if the regular 575 gets poor reviews for anything other than not having cupholders. |