| Author | Message | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 547 Registered: 5-2002 |
I didnt want to weigh in on this because I know a lot of guys that got em.But YES it looks dated and was always a little off.But all that aside with the fallen prices and performance never being in question.What a nice ride for the $$. | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Member Username: Doody Post Number: 462 Registered: 11-2001 |
stop reading those publications, kdross :-) doody. | ||
| Peter B. (Gts308qv)
Junior Member Username: Gts308qv Post Number: 234 Registered: 5-2001 |
It's a beautiful, aggressive, unique, supercar from the "eighties". End of story. We don't wear pink sports jackets & white loafers like "Sonny Crocket" any more, but driving a TR in 2002 is not dated. Very few non - Ferrari cars have stood the test of time like the TR or 308 series. If you want "dated", look at Corvette/ Camaro/Mustang from the eighties. Not in the same league, but then, few cars are ! | ||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
New member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 46 Registered: 3-2002 |
Why worry here about what people think? This is one hell of a car for the money. You can basically pick up a nice car for the price of a new BMW 740. What will the BMW be worth in five years? Your expense will be just the service. Of course the service is not cheap. But that is a real top of the line Ferrari with a 12 on your back. The car still looks great. I am still looking !!! Ralph | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Junior Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 153 Registered: 4-2002 |
It seems you are using the word "dated" in a derogatory manner; it need not be. For example, the Lamborghini Muira has a dated look--it looks like the car that started the supercar revolution in the late 1960's. It has 1960's aerodynamics, 1960's wheels/tires, 1960's suspension technology, carburetors,... It is one of the most beautiful cars ever made (in any significant numbers). Given a usefully good example of one for a reasonable cost, I would pick one up in a heartbeat. So is the Testarossa (et. al.) dated--you bet! however, they are still one of the most recognizable and beautiful cars ever to hit the streets! Fast, Quick, Powerful, Sleek....why wory that it looks like the car that dominated the late 1980's and early 1990's? | ||
| Fred (Iluv4res)
Junior Member Username: Iluv4res Post Number: 106 Registered: 8-2002 |
Without the grates & rims it looks like a kit-car. Don't mess with what works!!! I love the looks of the TR. Anyone who knows F-cars will know that even a 355 is now 'dated'. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Junior Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 222 Registered: 4-2002 |
Sure thing. Here you are   | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 304 Registered: 3-2002 |
mitchell, i can't manage to access that site. anyway you can make the link direct? | ||
| Norman Yung (Storminnormin)
New member Username: Storminnormin Post Number: 13 Registered: 7-2002 |
I think the entire Testarossa/512TR/512M series looks as stunning today as they did when they first came out. Superficially the 3 models may look similar, but their numerous changes and upgrades make them very different vehicles. Although the low and wide rear view makes these cars stunningly exotic and head turning, I personally think the 512M looks the best of them all. I agree with Solly that these cars are a timeless design. They will ALWAYS turn heads!! | ||
| Lloyd Bemis (Lloyd)
New member Username: Lloyd Post Number: 32 Registered: 8-2001 |
As there seems to be a general interest in the differences between a 512TR and a Testarossa, I thought I would compile this list of changes noted by Cavallino (Feb/March 1992) between the 512TR and Testarossa. Engine- The engine blocks in both are flat 12 boxer engine cast in light alloy, with crankshaft having seven main bearings, four valves per cylinder with each cylinder bank having two overhead cams. Other changes and similarities in the two are as follows: 1. Bore and stroke of 82mm by 78mm, 4942 cc capacity (unchanged); 2. HP increased from 380hp SAE to 421, with most of the increase coming from a redesign of the intake manifolds, a repositioning of the injectors, and a recalibration of the injectors, and a recalibration of the engine management system, the later controlling the integrated electronic fuel injection system; 3. Torque increased from 354lb ft to 360; 4. 0-60mph, 5.7 sec to 4.8; 5. Top speed- 180mph to 192; 6. New cylinder liner manufactured in aluminum with Nikasil coating; 7. New pistons due to larger intake valves; 8. Increase in compression ratio (10.1 to1) 9. Modified cylinder head gaskets due to a higher compression ratio and a different cylinder head coolant circulation layout; 10. Reinforced camshafts of a new profile; 11. Valve tappets with a new design bucket and springs; 12. New intake valves of a larger diameter; 13. Separate air boxes with filters, with a dynamic air intake; 14. Longer and straighter air intake manifolds; 15. Integrated electronic fuel injection system and ignition (Bosch Motronic 2.7) with self-diagnostic capabilities, and with ECU located in the cockpit; 16. Double independent submergible fuel pumps; 17. Exhaust manifolds with new layout; 18. Metallic type pre-catalyst converters; 19. Exhaust muffler with resonators and new heat shields; 20. Aluminum oil radiator with U circulation and without fan, allowing for better permeability; aluminum tubing; 21. Dual copper water radiators with U circulation in series and new aluminum tubing; 22. Coolant expansion tank located between intake manifolds; 23. More powerful alternator; 24. Secondary air pump with new air distribution pattern. Chassis- Up front, the chassis frame was strengthened around specific points; for example, the steering rack mounts and the front suspension mounts. Highly stressed frame pieces are made of a special chromium-molybdenum steel. At the rear, the old engine sub frame has been done away with. To gain a noticeable increase in stiffness, the rear frame was made an integral part of the entire chassis. The engine is now lifted out from above. Around the passenger compartment, the steel platform, rear bench, fornt and rear firewalls, and pillars are all welded directly to the tubes of the chassis. End result is that chassis flex has been reduced by 25% and torsional rigidity has been increased by 12.5%. Other chassis specifics as noted by Ferrari: 1. Weight reduction of 40kg/88lbs; 2. Lower center of gravity; 3. Reduction of unsprung weight; 4. Steering points in aluminum alloy; 5. New steering column shaft design; 6. New steering rack with longer arms and more direct ratios; 7. New steering moment offset; 8. Bilstein gas shock absorbers with aluminum body and adjustable plate; 9. New shock absorber settings; 10. Lighter weight springs. Gearbox and Differential 1. Limited slip differential (40%) with reduced axial thrust to increase reliability; 2. New transfer gear ratio; 3. Strengthened transfer gears; 4. New synchronizer pre-loading springs; 5. Gear shift lever housing with sliding ball bearings; 6. New selector and modified gear shift lever inclination; 7. New single plate clutch with reduced inertia and asbestos free clutch linings; 8. Entire gearbox and transmission strengthened throughout. Brakes 1. Larger front discs, 315mm x 32mm, with cross drilled braking surface; 2. Larger rear discs, 310 mm x 28mm, with cross drilled braking surface; 3. Aluminum calipers with larger pistons: front 44/40mm; rear: 40/36mm; 4. New ducts for brake cooling; 5. New brake proportioning valve; 6. Brake pedal ratio is more direct; 7. Redesigned hand brake with reduced application effort. Wheels and Tires 1. Front wheels increased from 16� to 8� x 18� with 235/40 ZR 18 tires; 2. Rear wheels increased from 16� to 10.5� x 18� with 295/35 ZR 18 tires. Styling Changes 1. New trapezoidal shaped air intake scoops on front with prancing horse; 2. Body colored front spoiler; 3. New profile to the C pillar fins in the rear sections with elimination of vents in sail panels; 4. Integral air intake slots added to the engine cover; 5. Rear lights are now dual colored and a redesign of the underbumper to change aesthetics of the exhaust system and exhaust outlets. 6. Wheels redesigned; 7. Interior restyled with elimination of center console and repositioning of the corresponding instruments under the central part of the dashboard. 8. Door panels and armrests have been changed. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Junior Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 220 Registered: 4-2002 |
SPREE17, do you know anything about cars? ;) #1 It's 0-60 is great for the 80's #2 Gearing #3 Weight #4 who wants to drop the clutch and rip apart things? #5 Has IRS not SRA And last but not least #6 Who cares about 0-60 when 60-100 is the true test of power and performance? | ||
| SPREE17 (Spree17)
New member Username: Spree17 Post Number: 33 Registered: 9-2002 |
All this talk about the TR made me look at them again and now I want one!!!!!!!! One question though why does such a big engine not have better times in the 0-60? | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Junior Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 219 Registered: 4-2002 |
http://virtual.yosemite.cc.ca.us/mitch/YellowTRwithnosidestrakesandnewrims.jpg See how much better the TR looks with new Rims and no grates? I am in love! | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Junior Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 241 Registered: 1-2002 |
Dated is the wrong word to use. If you look at a TR's lines, they are beautiful, flowing and classic. The devil is in the details, namely the side grates and louvres everywhere. Like many people, I think the grates and louvres junk up an otherwise graaceful car. To a lesser degree, the 348 suffers the same fate. When 355's came out, eveyone said how beautiful they are compared to 348's yet the lines are identical. Many people don't mind, and even like the side grates but many don't. As time goes on, performance takes a back seat to looks in determining desirability. That's why Dinos sell for so much. TR's will always occupy a special place among Ferraris, but between the love it or hate it grates and the fact they made a lot of TRs, there will continue to be downward pressure on prices. Dave | ||
| Peter (Bubba)
Junior Member Username: Bubba Post Number: 200 Registered: 5-2002 |
No way! My bro (R.I.P.) and I both think it's the most beautiful design in the automotive world, even today. | ||
| Bill Steele (Glassman)
Junior Member Username: Glassman Post Number: 95 Registered: 4-2002 |
I dated one several years ago. A fussy litle thing but also very classy. I miss her very much! | ||
| L.C.Plester (Lcplester)
Junior Member Username: Lcplester Post Number: 52 Registered: 2-2002 |
I have sold my '89 TR, but I still feel it is one of the best body shapes ever! If something is dated, its the wheels - nowdays 18" or 19" wheels are the norm. In my opinion the stock wheels are like from old Fiat Ritmo - a car that propably was never sold in US, but lets say Ritmo was the worst rust case in Italian history! (says all) ;) My favourite was washing the car in Sunday morning, red Testarossa is just soooo good looking in the morning sun. I�ve never had a car that receives so many thumbs ups (usually Finns are very calm) and looks from girls (oh yeah baby!) My opinion is that TR512 or Testarossa, its the same. They both look so good so its really question about how much you want to spend. Perhaps driving a Testarossa is more like driving a race car because its so hard on you, but thats part of its fashination. Would I say 250GT has dated styling. Never | ||
| Matthew F (Mateotnt)
New member Username: Mateotnt Post Number: 4 Registered: 7-2002 |
Pssst, guys... Nowadays everything with pop-up headlights looks dated. Even 355s. Beautiful? Absolutely; but also dated. In the 1980s cars WITHOUT pop-up head lights looked dated, remember? | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1335 Registered: 2-2001 |
Ross I agree with u about the differences between the TR & the 512TR but from a visual aspect they are very close. Thats what I was referring to | ||
| Ron Thomas (Ronsupercar)
Member Username: Ronsupercar Post Number: 313 Registered: 5-2002 |
Any 20yr car is dated...Some people feel that holding on to a car that is that old is crazy.. But the rules change with an exotic.. The style of the TR is timeless and may never be considered dated to most people... | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 293 Registered: 3-2002 |
it is dated in that ferrari doesn't make it anymore, and the primary design element (side grates) has not been repeated by ferrari (the rest of the world copied the hell out of it though). that said, i agree with all those who think its still stunning. i loved the shape from the start and it does still turn heads like crazy. henryk and william, i think you should take a closer look at the differences in spec (on ferrari world website for example), and you will see that there is a lot more going on besides 50 more bhp between the tr and the 512tr. another good source for the subjective differences is phil hill's review of the 512tr in the december '92 (i think) issue of road and track. someone else here said as well that the 512tr is a better track car. essentially it is completely sorted and updated to a very modern specification, probably a few years ahead of itself and the competition in the 512tr form. whereas the tr was ahead of itself and the competition in 1983. that is virtually 10 years of technology advancement across the board that they have taken advantage of. throw in the slightly different body shape, which i think makes the 512 look much more aggressive. and then lastly there are the production numbers, they made nearly 4 times as many tr as 512's. don't get me wrong; i like the tr as well, but i love the 512tr and there are, and will always be, distinct reasons for the price difference. | ||
| Manu Sachdeva (Manu)
Member Username: Manu Post Number: 431 Registered: 2-2002 |
The TR is still IMO, one of the best looking cars of all time - out of the Ferraris only the F40/F50/Enzo will turn more heads.. It looks AWESOME. I think the 512TR is probably the best incarnation of the TR but they all look wonderful. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 282 Registered: 5-2001 |
I do not really thing so. The 308 GTB/S is more timeless IMO. I don't think it looks like a 1976 car at all. | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Junior Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 59 Registered: 6-2002 |
The TR, like many pieces of art, exlimpifies an era, but it is timeless, never 'dated'. I *celarly* remenber the first time I saw a TR/512. It was big, RED, said Ferrari all through and through. The sound was forever burned into my mind, possibly THE finest sounding production engine of all time. Sounded like a dozen resounding trumpets in perfect tune, playing to god's own conducton. Amazing how many moments of clairity in my life are surrounded by Ferraris. Best! Ben. | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
Member Username: Solly Post Number: 382 Registered: 6-2001 |
A timelss design, like the Daytona before it (another Sonny Crockett car). | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
Member Username: Bahiaau Post Number: 361 Registered: 12-2001 |
It's one of the most beautiful designs ever. | ||
| Kevin Marcus (Rumordude)
Junior Member Username: Rumordude Post Number: 62 Registered: 9-2001 |
I'll keep it simple: While I dont have a TR, I think it (and the 348) are really stylish cars. I wouldnt buy a 348, but I coudl potentially see a TR sometime in the future. | ||
| stephen r chong (Ethans_dad)
Junior Member Username: Ethans_dad Post Number: 81 Registered: 3-2002 |
Have never seen a TR in person that didn't take my breath away. The beauty is in the details... That car doesn't have a bad angle. There is a design detail on every surface of the car and it still shines today. I will say that photos don't do the coachwork justice. | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Junior Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 234 Registered: 2-2001 |
I think the car has an 80's quality to its design aesthetic due, in large part, to the grand statement that it made during that time period. And that's not necessarily a negative, IMO. | ||
| Bart McMurry (Mcmurb)
New member Username: Mcmurb Post Number: 1 Registered: 9-2002 |
I wonder if those people who consider the TR "dated" are judging the car from photos. I mention this only because to me all F cars look better in person than in photos. Most of my friends didn't appreciate how wide my TR is (77+ inches)until they see it in person, where they can compare it next to their sedans. The roof of the car is only as high as my waist. Common traffic at stop lights look down at you from their 3 series BMWs and SUVs. Most pictures of the car (forza)don't show this scale by using live models or objects that can show how the car actually stands. The TR still stops traffic whenever I drive it because seeing it "live" really makes a difference. If you have doubts try this: Let someone else (your most trusted friend perhaps)drive your TR while you chase them in another car. Look at it from behind, side and front. I swear the car actually looks better moving down the road than standing still. I don't know of any other car since the 90s that can brag of this effect. Obviously I'm biased, but if bad press were to discount the price I'd buy another in a second. | ||
| Michael N. (Man90tr)
Member Username: Man90tr Post Number: 663 Registered: 4-2001 |
I like the looks of the regular TR better but if I were racing the 512Tr would be it. The regular TR is a great GT touring car. The 512Tr is a great tourer and race car too. I believe the 512Tr holds it value better because its a true duel purpose car for the money. The regular TR is great drver but a great track car its not. | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Junior Member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 139 Registered: 3-2002 |
A 400+bhp Ferrari flat 12 will never be dated... :D | ||
| Allen Cook (Alcook62)
New member Username: Alcook62 Post Number: 45 Registered: 3-2002 |
By "dated" I would assume that the articles actually meant timeless. By no stretch of the imagination could the TR be considered dated. This design has and will stand the test of time. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1334 Registered: 2-2001 |
a true work of art like a Michelangelo, Da Vinci, an Egyptian Pyramid, the Chrsyler building, the Eifel Tower or what have you may come from a certain era but they are never "dated" Same with the best Pininfarina designs like the 308, TR, dino etc Anybody who says they r dated doesnt know squat about art | ||
| SPREE17 (Spree17)
New member Username: Spree17 Post Number: 18 Registered: 9-2002 |
I think ferrari lovers can appreciate it a lot but know what years they were made but the remaining 99% of the world wouldnt know that it wasnt brand new if its a clean tr | ||
| Ryan Patrick Baker (Want_a_daytona)
Junior Member Username: Want_a_daytona Post Number: 54 Registered: 7-2002 |
I don't care how it looks to the public eye. To me it is a low, mean, Sports car fighting machine! It looks really cool because it is so wide, and some people embrace the 80's styling of the veicle. It's the dream car of that time. | ||
| billy zissis (89tr)
Junior Member Username: 89tr Post Number: 217 Registered: 4-2001 |
In no way does it look dated. It ws actually very futuristic looking for its time. People always come up to me and say is that a new car? Cannot believe it when I tell them its 13 years old. How can anyone say this looks dated?  | ||
| Lawrence Yee (Ferrariguy)
New member Username: Ferrariguy Post Number: 25 Registered: 8-2002 |
Hi Ken, I own an 88TR and one of the first things that attracted me to it was it's styling. When it first appeared way back in 1985 it shocked me but even after almost 20 years later it still amazes me with it's bold design. All my friends think it's fantastic. I think the word I word use, and this applies to the 308 as well is.... timeless | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2802 Registered: 5-2001 |
No | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Member Username: Modman Post Number: 306 Registered: 11-2001 |
Dated? maybe, but it still looks like no other which makes it unique and still holds the title as exotic whereas most sports car cannot do. Exotic, well, of course is expensive, rare, and of course have to look stunning. There is no better exotic than an Italian styling, I feel fortunate sometimes when I realize after people make comments of my rides, kinda cool. Live life the fullest experience it all!..... | ||
| Peter Topman (Peter_topman)
New member Username: Peter_topman Post Number: 5 Registered: 8-2002 |
my opinion : No Such Thing as a dated looking exotic Italian sports car. (is the Sistine Chapel dated ?....is a Mona Lisa dated ??) | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 258 Registered: 8-2001 |
Bob: I don't believe, for a minute, that those selling the 512TR are getting their price, or anywhere near it. I would rather have two TR's than one 512TR, ANY DAY!!!!!!!!...it is good to have spare parts! It must be that damn low mileage thing! The few HP more, that the 512TR has, in NO way justifies a price that is almost double. From 10 feet away, who can tell the difference? | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 639 Registered: 3-2001 |
The TR is still one of THE MOST exotic looking, classic and recognizable modern day F-cars IMO. I saw a TR the other day and it continues to amaze me... with the huge rear end and truly exotic looks. I'm sure there are a dozen reasons and it's probably been posted here a million times but I have a question. Why are 512TR prices twice that of a TR? Are the differences really worth twice the $$$? And I still don't understand why TR prices have dropped through the floor while 512TR prices remain steady.... is the scenario similar to that of the evolution of the 308/328??? | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 256 Registered: 8-2001 |
I had my 88TR for four years now. The people who approach me, and never seen a TR, think it is a newer car. They say that it is "wild" looking, and they all like it. How would one call that "dated"? | ||
| William Huber (Solipsist)
Member Username: Solipsist Post Number: 363 Registered: 9-2001 |
Dated? It's timeless. What other design had such an impact on automotive culture? Every time I see one, I get a little excited. I remember seeing my first one in Arlington, TX back in 1985. Some things get better with age? Remember what they where selling for back in the late 1980's? (est.$300,000.00) It still makes me smile to see one today. | ||
| SPREE17 (Spree17)
New member Username: Spree17 Post Number: 16 Registered: 9-2002 |
Bottom line is it looks great no matter what year it was built. How bad could it be sonny crocket looked so cool in one. (Miami Vice) I watch the show have the time just to see the car. Or as Sheena Easton calls it Testastorone | ||
| Stanley DiGuiseppi (Standig)
Junior Member Username: Standig Post Number: 51 Registered: 5-2002 |
IMO everyone looks at a TR when it passes...I know I used to own one..... Appreciation for its looks will only grow with time...it is beautiful design.... | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Junior Member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 138 Registered: 3-2002 |
IMHO it looks great. Same with the 348 and 308. | ||
| Mitchell Le (Yelcab1)
Member Username: Yelcab1 Post Number: 388 Registered: 11-2001 |
If it is dated, so what? It is almost 20 years old so ... it is supposed to be ... dated. | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Junior Member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 137 Registered: 3-2002 |
Ya, it does look a bit dated. But it aged better than the NSX IMHO. | ||
| SPREE17 (Spree17)
New member Username: Spree17 Post Number: 15 Registered: 9-2002 |
I think it looks dated just because i know the years they were made but that isnt really a bad thing. Some of my fave cars are from the past. No car is going to look brand new for good . Every year we have different changes. In Porsches I would take a clean 993 over a new 911 every day of the week. | ||
| Ken Ross (Kdross)
Junior Member Username: Kdross Post Number: 129 Registered: 2-2002 |
During the past several months I have read a few articles which stated that the TR is dated in terms of its styling. In addition, several people I have spoken with have stated the same. While I may agree that the TR is a product of the 1980's and shouts "LOOK AT ME", I would not call the styling dated. What do others think of this statement? |