| Author |
Message |
Clark Driggers (Clark)
Junior Member
Username: Clark
Post Number: 55
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Monday, September 23, 2002 - 7:42 pm: | |
I will not go for the 1 year powertrain warranty. It will come with a 3 month warranty. We are finally getting somewhere on negotiating, but I had to basically threaten to walk and list dozens of cars and what they are selling for. I think it will be 97k for a 6000 mile car with recent major service ( belts, tensioners, bearings, and a new AC compressor). I will be paying a small premium but I will stay local and it is a one-owner car.
Clark |
Modified348ts (Modman)
Member
Username: Modman
Post Number: 318
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 1:02 am: | |
A 3 month warranty worth the premium? what is the cost of the premium vs. what could go bad and how much is covered. How many miles will you drive in that 3 months, if a little I'd say forget paying a premium for warranty. I'd wait or just go somewhere else or better yet get a 360 for a little more. All exotic cars are a gamble when it comes to reliability, either get a brand spankin new or one that has been driven well with some miles for a resonable price. Last year I found a 97 355 spyder 12K car in showroom condition and I mean it was one of the best condition 355 I have seen and I have seen dozens that were not even close to meet my demands of cleanliness and it was offered to me for $115K after showing the dealer how serious I was and it was from a Ferrari dealership in Orange county with a Tubi on it, now that is what I call reasonable, 97K for a 95355B, no way... |
Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
Member
Username: Ernie
Post Number: 359
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 10:08 pm: | |
Clark,
The way you can slap these guys in the face is to get the car from somewere else. Then drive over there in it, and when the a-holes come out to see what you want, ask too talk to the general manager, then cancel your order for the 360 and tell him that you are taking your business elsewhere because of the aweful treatment you recieved. I bet that will wake them up. |
Ricky Nardis (Rickyn_f355)
Junior Member
Username: Rickyn_f355
Post Number: 59
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 7:28 pm: | |
$85 will get you a 95 with 20,000 miles, not 6,000 like Clark�s. I just went through all this and looked at the national market closely. Found a few 95s that I passed on which sold for $95,000 + and most weren't the traditional red/tan. Found a 95 out on the west coast for $82, but the motor had been replaced and the car was repainted twice, both times a different color. Not sure where you guys get all these values from but I wasn't able to find any screaming buys. In my opinion, a 3 month warranty is worth a bit of a premium. I have had my 95 for one month and I have already had a decent amount of repairs done: oil sending unit, window actuators, etc. Just my $.02 which always seem to contradict the opinions of the masses. |
Ricky Nardis (Rickyn_f355)
Junior Member
Username: Rickyn_f355
Post Number: 58
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 7:23 pm: | |
clark, you live in a premium area so paying a premium is understandable. From the sounds of it the car is in prestine shape, u have a 3 month warranty, and you plan on keeping it...i still say go for it... |
martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
Member
Username: Mw360
Post Number: 561
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 6:45 pm: | |
Rikky,
No way in the world can you ship a car coast to coast for $300-$500.I shipped a 355 from Fl-Or (3400 mi) cost 1600 Enclosed.Even open which I wouldn't consider for a F car my wife's Jetta was $1000.These prices were in'00 so I wouldn't be surprised if they are higher now. |
Clark Driggers (Clark)
Junior Member
Username: Clark
Post Number: 54
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 5:58 pm: | |
Vince,
I think that since it is a consignment car is why I am having so much trouble. It would seem they could make it work, maybe cut some of their profit. Especially if they are making a few grand for not doing anything. It has only sat on the floor for 2 days. They should remind the seller he is also getting a hefty tax break on his new car for trading this one in (7% on 100k).
Clark |
Vince (Manatee)
Junior Member
Username: Manatee
Post Number: 51
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 11:59 am: | |
I believe Dave hit the nail on the head. It isn't easy to make deals on consignment cars. The owner of the car has told the dealer what the absolute min they will accept, which is usually full or higher than going retail asking prices. After the car has sat there for awhile unsold, and closer to when the owner's new car arrives, the price of the car will come down when the owner finally realizes it was priced too high.
Keep looking around. That same car will probably still be there until the new car's arrival gets closer, and the owner will need the money.
FOA has always treated me well. I've seen the cars they offer compared to other local sports car dealers and FOA sells some awfully nicely maintained examples. |
Clark Driggers (Clark)
Junior Member
Username: Clark
Post Number: 53
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 10:19 am: | |
I do not know if telling them to F*** themselves would be enough. I don't think they care. If I did not love these cars so much I would never buy another one based on the dealers attitudes.
Clark |
Rikky Alessi (Ralessi)
New member
Username: Ralessi
Post Number: 19
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 12:18 am: | |
Don't worry about the shipment of a car cross country, as it is not really a big deal. I'm not speaking from experience here (obviously) but from what I've read it is only 300-500 to ship a car from coast to coast, and the same for a pre-purchase inspection to make sure the car is all right.
95 355 B's are going for as low as mid 80's now... 90 at the most I would say, convenience would not be worth fifteen thousand dollars, to me. |
Modified348ts (Modman)
Member
Username: Modman
Post Number: 311
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 12:18 am: | |
God Damn, I'm still pissed at this ••••... |
Modified348ts (Modman)
Member
Username: Modman
Post Number: 310
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, September 21, 2002 - 12:16 am: | |
I'd walk away and get the same car somewhere else for a better reasonable price. Screw the low mileage and tell those F**KS "screw you" give me a break- 3k and they won't budge on a 95, I'd tell them to go F**k themselves, you will probably have better luck with a higher mileage car. It is too easy to disconnect the odometers. Personally if it was me it would be a brand new or a used high mileage car at a reasonable price. The dealer get these cars thousands less than you think, if you have a 355 go try to trade it in and see what they would offer you or better yet call any dealer and see what they would give you on a 355 even if you don't have one. I've seen how car dealerships work, most of them don't do MAJOR inspections as many I've seen, your car as a trade in is a piece of ••••, their cars are mint, one of a kind, here today gone tomorrow, give me all your money and screw you dumb ass. |
Jim E (Jimpo1)
Member
Username: Jimpo1
Post Number: 768
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 3:01 pm: | |
Run away Clark, and don't look back. If they don't want to build a relationship with you, why should build one with them? |
Fred (Iluv4res)
Junior Member
Username: Iluv4res
Post Number: 114
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 1:48 pm: | |
Altough finding one in your own backyard is convenient, there is the reality that finding one will be easier and perhaps a better deal if you look nationwide.
I live in south florida & would be happy to go and do an initial visual/drive inspection of any car that is local here for you. It seems like there are several available here.
let me know.
|
ELI (Titanium360)
Junior Member
Username: Titanium360
Post Number: 188
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 1:31 pm: | |
Where were you guys few months ago. i sold my 97 F355 with 15K miles no accidents , concours winner for $95K. The dealer is out of his mind.
Plus 95% of all the 95 models had a valve problem.
good luck |
Ricky Nardis (Rickyn_f355)
Junior Member
Username: Rickyn_f355
Post Number: 57
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 12:15 pm: | |
$97 is a fair price, depending on if you view low mileage as a positive or a negative. I paid $91 for the 95 red/tan with 15K miles...big service done. If it's the car you want and it's local and you have 3 month warranty, i say go for it |
Stanley DiGuiseppi (Standig)
Junior Member
Username: Standig
Post Number: 57
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 11:37 am: | |
Clark
naplesmotorsports.com has a 95 yel/blk 99k with 10k miles and service done
I have done buisness with them and was very satisfied.
I agree with waiting for a car and 'deal' you Feel good about.
|
TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 1366
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 11:13 am: | |
I doubt they are only making 3k but we don't know. I just looked and they are several 355bs for sale at dealerships in florida (shelton, central florida) for low 100s with service and later years 1997. If you spend 100k may be better getting these. I realize it is not directly in your neighborhood. I bet one of the flordia guys here can take a look at it for you before you go down.
Just an FYI. The Boxer at FOA I mentioned was reduced to 85k from 99K. When I told the guy he would be lucky to get 85k with service a few months ago he did not call me back. I think many times they put these prices out there so 1) they can claim they came down alot 2) they might find a sucker willing to pay it.
|
stu cordova (Balataboy)
Junior Member
Username: Balataboy
Post Number: 243
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 11:03 am: | |
If the owner is stuck at wanting a minimum of 97k after all expenses (just assuming - I don't know) then that leaves nothing for the dealer!
There are hard costs to selling a car (advertising, commission, b&o tax) so there's got to be SOME profit! True, there is the potential for more profit from any sale, but unfortunately most dealers are pretty "short sighted".
What needs to happen is the dealer needs to work the owner. But if he has lot's of $ and doesn't care - what can you do but wait for some "fool" to come along and pay too much.
Clark, I tend to agree with most others on this one - walk away! |
Fred (Iluv4res)
Junior Member
Username: Iluv4res
Post Number: 113
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 10:53 am: | |
This really pisses me off. I can't believe that they wont sell the car to you for $3k less, especially since you have another car on order.
That is just stupid business to me. Even if you didn't have another on order, if they sell the car to you (local), chances are they will make up the $ on service, parts, etc. Not to mention a good relationship with a local person who may refer others. If they sell the car out of the area they get nothing more than an extra 'potential' $3k.
What ever happend to 'a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush'? Even more aggravating is that it is consignment, which translates to 100% profit to the dealer since they have no $ in the car themselves. Dumb, dumb, dumb!!!!
Apparently, they subscribe to Gordon Gekko's notion of "greed is good".
I know it's frusturating. I am going through the same process with a dealer here who wont lower the price $1,700 despite he had already quoted me that price then went back up. Not that the $ will kill me, but the principle of it all will make me resent the purchase.
aaaaggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!! |
TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 1365
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 10:49 am: | |
Stu
I understand that - all the more reason they should be going back to the owner and trying to get it to work. What costs do they really have in this?? |
stu cordova (Balataboy)
Junior Member
Username: Balataboy
Post Number: 241
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 10:44 am: | |
Dave's right. As the owner of a small dealership, I find consignments are often difficult, because the owner of the car usually feels his/her car is worth more than perhaps (usually) it really is. (Aren't we ALL a bit guilty of that?!)
TOM - What dealers get from a consignment is free inventory! As far as a percentage - it varys widely from dealer to dealer - but it could be as low as 7% and as high as 15% of the sale price.
Clark, in your case, it's probably not so much the dealer palying hardball as it is the owner of the car. I'm sure the dealer would love to make your deal work, as they get paid regardless of what the car sells for. Good luck!! |
Gene Agatep (Gagatep)
New member
Username: Gagatep
Post Number: 24
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 10:36 am: | |
Clark,
my basic rule about negotiating....
through its process, if there is something
that doesn't feel right, walk away....
when all is said and done and if you
purchase something with reservations - there is
always an after purchase regret.
Walk away on this one - you'll find a better one.
Lots and Lots of 355's being sold out there.
|
Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Junior Member
Username: Hardtop
Post Number: 246
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 10:05 am: | |
Clark (and others)
One thing I have always found that it is usually hard to get a good deal on a car that has been consigned. The reason they get consigned is because the owner wants too much to begin with. Find a 355 that the dealer has his own money in and I'll bet you can get a deal.
Dave |
Clark Driggers (Clark)
Junior Member
Username: Clark
Post Number: 52
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 9:56 am: | |
He is an older man I am told . It took a week to get in touch with him because he was out of the country.( That is a whole other story). I think he has several Ferrari's and another on order I am told. |
TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 1364
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 9:48 am: | |
I find that so amusing - here they are with a huge building with hundreds of cars and a prosperous franchise ( i realize it does cost much to run) and they are telling you it is only 3%. Give me a break. Who ever ownes the car has a 100k asset which is not earning squat ( though won't be earning much more in these markets), you are a willing buyer with the money and an order for another car.
Can you clarify the service issue? If they are covering the service from the proceeds they he only needs to worry about cost of the service not retail value. If the PO pays for the service outright then it has nothing to do with you.
Slightly OT but what do dealers usually get in consingment sales? I bet they still make a good margin |
David White (Dwhite)
Junior Member
Username: Dwhite
Post Number: 66
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 9:40 am: | |
If it is a consignment car, see if you can speak with the owner to get a better understanding of the use. Why low miles, did he/she enjoy the car, if they did it probably was driven more than 1K per year, unless they have a fleet of other cars. I agree with the general consensus of walk from this deal. 355s are plentiful out there.
Let me ask you a question. How many miles do you think you will put on it in the first month? If you are like half the folks on this board I will bet 1K minimum. You will want to be in the car getting the ferrari smile. I don't think it is possible for a 7 year old car to have 6K miles, unless the thing was in the shop constantly, or the owner was a speculator who did not want to lose on these great investments . . .not. |
Clark Driggers (Clark)
Junior Member
Username: Clark
Post Number: 51
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 9:35 am: | |
Tom,
They did the service for the owner. Basically he brought the car in to sell and asked that it be checked over and brought up to date. They are finishing the service as we speak. FOA atates that he was asking 105k and after the 5k in service he is down to 100k. They are telling me that 3k is only 3% and I should comme up. I personally was going to stick to 95k but it is local (no tansport costs)and I am trying to work with them. |
TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 1361
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 9:22 am: | |
did they do the service (for the PO) or did someone else do it? |
TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 1360
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 9:22 am: | |
they listed at 100k and you offered 97K and they won't move? And you have a 360 on order. I would go to the mgr and get this done. You may be too pissed off now |
Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
Member
Username: Ernie
Post Number: 355
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 9:15 am: | |
Clark, walk away. Sounds like they don't wanna do business. Don't get it from them, there are better deals out there. Besides only 5k miles on the car sounds fishy. |
Clark Driggers (Clark)
New member
Username: Clark
Post Number: 50
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 8:52 am: | |
Tom,
Of course thay are billing it as the perfect car, so when I ask about the power train warranty thay say that they do not recommend it and it costs more money. To me that is a double standard, if the car is so perfect then why would it be hard to get the warranty? I really wanted to try and build a relationship with the dealer but the more I think about all this it angers me. Supposedly the major service (including belts, tensioners, new AC compressor is about $6000 and the owner is having that done. I have gone to $97k and they won't budge off 100k
Clark |
TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 1351
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 7:51 am: | |
one other thing - are they giving you a warranty? also when you say major service do you me 30k with belts? |
TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 1350
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 7:48 am: | |
is this Ferrari of Atlanta? I have had a couple of dealings with them and find their pricing on the high end - hey if it works ok. I was looking at perfect 84 boxer from them but it had no service - I mean none. They wanted mid 90s w/o service - to me that is crazy. Nevertheless Frank on this board knows them well maybe he can give you insights to their pricing strategy |
TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 1349
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 7:42 am: | |
yes if your instincts tell you its to much it probably is, don't get caught up in the gotta have |
Clark Driggers (Clark)
New member
Username: Clark
Post Number: 49
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 20, 2002 - 7:32 am: | |
That is what my concensus has been. Most 95's with 12-15,000 miles are selling for $90k. It is incredibly frustating because I am trying to stay local so I do not have to hassle with travel and shipping a car. I am also on the wait list at the dealer for a 360. You would think I would get some concession but they won't budge. I do not know how much they are clearing since it is on consignment. It has left such a bad taste in my mouth. I guess I should move on and search elsewhere.
Clark |
Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Junior Member
Username: Hardtop
Post Number: 244
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 9:31 pm: | |
Harris Ferrari in Salt Lake has 2 95 GTB's priced under 90K.
Locally, the sales manager at Ferrari of Denver has been trying to sell his personal car, a 97 GTB with 14K on it. He just lowered the price to 88.5K.
For 100K you should be able to buy a 98 or 99, maybe even an F1 and not worry about the problems many 95's had. There are a LOT of 355's for sale.
Dave |
Robert (Rjklein4470)
Junior Member
Username: Rjklein4470
Post Number: 177
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 7:37 pm: | |
I also think you could find a 92-94 512 TR with some miles in that price range, I would look there |
Robert (Rjklein4470)
Junior Member
Username: Rjklein4470
Post Number: 176
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 7:35 pm: | |
I agree with Martin, Low miles on a 7yr old car is a hard one. In one respect I do not think it has been driven enough and you could run into hoses and such needing replacment, and the other issue is the ticker is just too easy to turn off in these cars. |
martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
Member
Username: Mw360
Post Number: 555
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 6:24 pm: | |
Clark,
I would be wary of a 7 yr old car with only 5200 mi.Even if it passes a professional inspection which is consistent with its "5200" miles,it still is approx 5-7.5 k overpriced in my opinion.However if the dealer is reputable it may be worth the peace of mind to pay the extras bucks. |
Clark Driggers (Clark)
New member
Username: Clark
Post Number: 48
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 19, 2002 - 5:06 pm: | |
I have been searching for a 355B for 4 months and have looked at a bunch of cars. I found one that was in excellent condition, 1995 355B Red/Tan one owner with 5200 miles. Major service just completed, no radio. Everything else in excellent condition. It is for sale by a Ferrari Dealer. They will not budge off $100k. I think that is overpriced, What does the forum think. I am trying to make a fair deal for the car.
Clark |