| Author | Message | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 347 Registered: 8-2002 |
Doody, I have the Cutrera book as well. I have a few issues with this book. 1. Each of the models is covered by a single page of text that doesn't provide very much in the way of detail. They are also each covered by a different author, some of which only reminisce about the first time they saw the car or whatever. 2. The photographs are nice and professional, however, each model is only represented in photos by a single car. Different variations (or even colors) of each particular model are not represented. 3. The "Chassis Numbers" section contains several errors. This, however, is typical as new information becomes available daily and, in some cases, several conflicting theories exist. While it is informative, this book contains too many errors, however, to ever be considered a point of reference among Ferrari historians. It is still a beautiful book with great photography and I do not regret buying it. I also agree with posts in another thread regarding the Lehbrink/Schlegelmilch book, "Ferrari." It is a bargain at approximately $25 for such a large compilation of beautiful photography even if it is actually an overgrown coffee table book. I think every Ferrari enthusiast should own it at that price. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 346 Registered: 8-2002 |
Harlan, Re: interior/engine bay pics, are you referring to 5571 GT? If so, no I don't. I've never photographed the car myself. I just looked through a few GTO books, but don't see any interior/engine bay pics of 5571. I do have a 1/16 scale model of 5571 GT. Shall I take some pics of it? :-)!! | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Member Username: Doody Post Number: 469 Registered: 11-2001 |
here're the stats on the book i was mentioning: Ferrari 250 Grand Touring Cars Nicola Cutrera 1990, Hyde Park Books London ISBN 1 872718 00 0 it's about 170 pages. divided into three sections: I - "The Models" II - "Technical Specifications" III - "Chassis Numbers" the Bluemel book is definitely on my list to pick up - i got the Cutrera off EBay a few months ago. i very much enjoy it. doody. | ||
| Harlan Mott (Hmott3)
Junior Member Username: Hmott3 Post Number: 196 Registered: 12-2001 |
do you happen to have any pictures of its interior and/or engine bay? | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 345 Registered: 8-2002 |
Sure. 5571 GT was indeed the first of the three 1964 GTOs and the only one with an integrated roof spoiler. It had a very short racing career. In 1964, 5571 GT was campaigned by Chinetti's North American Racing Team by drivers such as Phil Hill, Pedro Rodriguez, and David Piper. Wins that year included 1st overall at Daytona and 1st in class at Sebring. The car was sold in 1965 and never raced again. Owners have included such notables as Steve Earle (founder of the Monterey Historics) and Bernie Ecclestone, who sold the car in 1998 for $6 million. It is currently owned by collector Bruce McCaw. | ||
| Harlan Mott (Hmott3)
Junior Member Username: Hmott3 Post Number: 195 Registered: 12-2001 |
Can you tell me anything more about this 5571, this was the first car with series II styling? | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 516 Registered: 12-2001 |
Sorry for the confusion regarding the show i mentioned: LV referred to Louis Vuitton, he of the monogrammed everything, and the show was in Rockefeller Center, NYC several years ago. | ||
| Jason Godsil (Godsil)
Junior Member Username: Godsil Post Number: 130 Registered: 9-2001 |
I read that in the book I have. I wish I would have been a student there and picked it up cheap when the car was in that sad shape. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 344 Registered: 8-2002 |
Jason, here's an interesting tidbit on 3589 GT, the car that you were talking about with the silver ring around the radiator opening. The car was donated to Victoria High School in Texas in 1964 where it remained until 1972. During that time the car was used for practice by students studying automotive mechanics. Unbelievable, huh? | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 343 Registered: 8-2002 |
Jason, yes, it's a 456 convertible. Straman conversion, though, not the Venizio like the Sultan's cars. Next to that is a Cal Spyder and there was another GTO next to that but it's not in that shot. Forgot which one. I have other pics somewhere. Horsefly, he was honored to die beneath a mighty GTO. Harlan, here are a couple of shots of 3909 GT that I took at Pebble Beach last year. It is currently part of John Mozart's collection here in California. This car has had a long race history as well as many different owners but is probably best remembered for being one of the most expensive cars on record, having sold to Takeo Kato of Japan in October 1989 for a staggering 10,000,000 British pounds or roughly $15,000,000 USD at the time. It was later sold back to England for an undisclosed amount and then to a buyer in the US for somewhere between $4 million and $4.5 million. | ||
| izel k (Ferrarist)
New member Username: Ferrarist Post Number: 22 Registered: 3-2001 |
There's an article and nice pictures about 456 Venice Cabriolet in FORZA #33. It's also green but it has a green interior not tan like the one in the picture below. | ||
| Harlan Mott (Hmott3)
Junior Member Username: Hmott3 Post Number: 194 Registered: 12-2001 |
If that is a 456 vert I hope he has pictures because it doesn't officially exist. I believe the sultan has one though if I remember correctly. | ||
| Jason Godsil (Godsil)
Junior Member Username: Godsil Post Number: 129 Registered: 9-2001 |
Hey L. Wayne I just noticed something. Is that a 456 convertible behind you? Nice looking. | ||
| Harlan Mott (Hmott3)
Junior Member Username: Hmott3 Post Number: 193 Registered: 12-2001 |
Wayne, Your knowledge of the older cars is awe inspiring. What can you tell me about 3909, I think that car in silver looks amazing. | ||
| Jason Godsil (Godsil)
Junior Member Username: Godsil Post Number: 128 Registered: 9-2001 |
L. Wayne, You are right I read the numbers wrong. The Dark Blue one that I was talking about is the one that also has like a silver stripe around the grille opening. This car was featured in a video that I have and was narrated by Ennes Ireland. It is only a 16 min. video but I love to watch it and hear that screaming V12. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Junior Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 248 Registered: 5-2002 |
L. Wayne, when that photo was taken, were you really unaware that you had just driven over a mechanic in a white suit under the left front wheel? | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 342 Registered: 8-2002 |
Oh, now I see that you were probably responding to WM Hart's comment about the blue car at a show in Las Vegas. I'm not familiar with the show but 3589 GT was restored in 1988 and took the Road & Track trophy at Pebble Beach in 1990. The car remains in immaculate condition and is not likely the patina'ed car the WM is referring to. He most likely saw Brandon Wang's car, 4219 GT which Brandon drives regularly and has not restored. This car is also dark navy blue (not original). 4219 GT's previous owner, George Dyer (until 1992), used the car as a daily driver and for weekend trips to Las Vegas. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 341 Registered: 8-2002 |
Jason, I swear I'm not trying to pick on you. You also mentioned that "the blue one" was 3589 GT. Are you referring to the blue one in the photos from the 40th anniversary? The bright blue car with the white stripe down its nose is 3387 GT. It is Blu Gentiana Metallic, its original color, and was just recently returned to that color. It had been red for quite some time. 3589 GT did not participate in the event. It is indeed Blu Scuro, a dark navy blue. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 340 Registered: 8-2002 |
Jason, I forgot to mention, 3451 GT was originally burgundy colored with a white roof. It was later repainted the traditional red and is still red today. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 339 Registered: 8-2002 |
Jason, the blue with yellow down the middle is 3445 GT. It was first painted that color scheme in 1963 by Ulf Norinder of Sweden who owned the car from 1963 until 1971. In 1965 Norinder retired the car from racing and had it re-bodied by Drogo (very interesting body work) for use as a road car. In 1982, 3445 GT was returned to it's original 1962 specification, complete with red paint. Then, in 1992, it was repainted in blue and yellow as Norinder raced it and has remained that way since. Here is a photo of me sitting in 3445 GT at the Monterey Historic Races a few years back. It had just come off the track and was still ticking and popping as the engine cooled.  | ||
| Jason Godsil (Godsil)
Junior Member Username: Godsil Post Number: 127 Registered: 9-2001 |
The blue one is Blu Scuro, sold on April 20, 1962 S/N 3589GT. My second favorite GTO is the aftermarket painted Blue with Yellow down the middle. Sold also on April 20, 1962 and was S/N 3451GT. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 338 Registered: 8-2002 |
Harlan, to clear up the '64 body question: Look at the picture on the very bottom of this thread. Those are 1964 bodied cars. There were three cars built for 1964 with this body work (5571 GT, 5573 GT, and 5575 GT). There were some '62 and '63 GTOs that were modified at the time to '64 body work. Many have since been converted back to original but some that enjoyed racing success with the updated body work still look that way today. The complete list is as follows: 1. 3223 GT 2. 3387 GT 3. 3413 GT 4. 3445 GT 5. 3451 GT 6. 3505 GT 7. 3527 GT 8. 3589 GT 9. 3607 GT 10. 3647 GT 11. 3705 GT 12. 3729 GT 13. 3757 GT 14. 3767 GT 15. 3769 GT 16. 3809 GT 17. 3851 GT 18. 3869 GT 19. 3909 GT 20. 3943 GT 21. 3987 GT 22. 4091 GT 23. 4115 GT 24. 4153 GT 25. 4219 GT 26. 4293 GT 27. 4399 GT 28. 4491 GT 29. 4675 GT 30. 4713 GT 31. 4757 GT 32. 5095 GT 33. 5111 GT 34. 5571 GT 35. 5573 GT 36. 5575 GT Anything else is something else. Regarding GTO books, I have several but the best, in my opinion, is the Bluemel/Pourret book, "Ferrari 250 GTO." | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 515 Registered: 12-2001 |
Of all the 250 GTO's i've seen in the flesh, the one i recall most favorably was a blue one, with paint cracked and peeling and all the original "patina" of a nearly 40yr.old car, driven hard. Car was at an LV show a few years ago at Rock Center; i too think the Bluemel book is fabulous, but am too lazy to look it up. | ||
| David P. Smith (Dave330gtc)
New member Username: Dave330gtc Post Number: 21 Registered: 3-2002 |
Harlan, LM Berl body refers to the 330 LMB body style which is kind of a cross between a Lusso and a series 1 GTO. It is a nice looking car in person. There used to be an LMB running around the Chicago area way back when. | ||
| Jason Godsil (Godsil)
Junior Member Username: Godsil Post Number: 126 Registered: 9-2001 |
The book I have is simply called Ferrari 250GTO by Keith Bluemel. This is the best book that I have found. It shows alittle on how the car was built and tells exactly what was on the car, switches, lights, ect. It also breaks down each car and tells about it's racing and owner history and also what color it originally was and where it was sold new. I love this book and it is a must have for GTO enthusiasts. | ||
| Harlan Mott (Hmott3)
Junior Member Username: Hmott3 Post Number: 192 Registered: 12-2001 |
Your correct I guess I'm a bit dyslexic today I could have sworn that 4757 was in both lists, but its obviously not. Sorry about that. | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Member Username: Doody Post Number: 468 Registered: 11-2001 |
Harlan - he has 3757 in his list and i have 4757 in my list. i don't think there's any overlap. i will post the full book info - no problemo. it's by Nicola Cutrera. it might be OOP. it covers all the 250s. Jason - what book do you have? i'm always looking for new 250 books. doody! | ||
| Jason Godsil (Godsil)
Junior Member Username: Godsil Post Number: 125 Registered: 9-2001 |
According to the book I have all GTO's came with only two heat extractor vents in the front fenders. If there is three then the third one was done by the owner. All GTO's were pretty much one off's because Ferrari and the builders of the cars added things here and there. That is why I like S/N 3607 the best, I think it is the most pure looking GTO built, if that makes any sence. | ||
| Harlan Mott (Hmott3)
Junior Member Username: Hmott3 Post Number: 191 Registered: 12-2001 |
Doody, There is one posted in both lists, his and yours, car s/n 4757. Which means your lists of cars not there is actually missing one car. Thanks for the info, is the book you have out of print? Can you post the ISBN # for it as well? | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Member Username: Doody Post Number: 466 Registered: 11-2001 |
Harlan: I will dig some more data out of my book and post. The counts seem correct. There are 36 GTOs. Taunus listed 23 cars of which 22 are GTOs. I listed the other 14. There is a fair amount of variation b/w 250 GTOs. There's short-roofs and long-roofs. Some have the three air scoops in the front hood, some do not. Etc. I'll post the data from the Cutrera book. Doody! | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2184 Registered: 12-2000 |
That's true David, also, most of these GTO's (maybe all) were raced hard in the 60's and I bet hardly any of them made it through without some major damage. I've seen pics of GTO's in Cavallino that were 3 feet high and burned. I would love to see an honest % of the actual parts orginal still on the car. I believe this was Jon's GTO at the Dallas FCA meet... http://ferrarichat.com/events/fcanats01/images/fcanat04.gif | ||
| David White (Dwhite)
Junior Member Username: Dwhite Post Number: 67 Registered: 7-2002 |
The cost of a GTO is in the serial # - an original one. I spoke with a guy I know who has one, bought in the 60's for 10K it is original, not restored. Asked what if it was wrecked, he said they would fix it like they did to all race cars - chassis wrecked, build a new one, ect. The cost to rebuild his car he thinks is about 200K. Hi wife vintage races it. He was at Lime Rock Labor Day weekend, anyone in the area could have seen it then. | ||
| Harlan Mott (Hmott3)
Junior Member Username: Hmott3 Post Number: 189 Registered: 12-2001 |
Doody, Thanks for the list, but we seem to still be missing one. 4757 is on the list as attending. Does anyone else have info on 4713? What is "LM Berl Body"? I also don't have a clue what "64 Body" on 5573 and 5575 means, can anyone define that for me? It doesn't say re-body like 4399 and 4091. | ||
| Jason Godsil (Godsil)
Junior Member Username: Godsil Post Number: 124 Registered: 9-2001 |
That is terrible about the accident. I am serious about trying to look at one of the original GTO's. This is my favorite car of all time. I didn't think that there was one, nevertheless two close to me. I have to see them. | ||
| Pioneer (Pioneer)
New member Username: Pioneer Post Number: 4 Registered: 3-2002 |
Here is a cross post from the Ferrari mailing list, Jon Shirley's GTO got wrecked. Damage is sheet metal and wheel, Jon and his wife in the car where fine. ---- For Tuesday the theme was Medieval Burgundy and Le Morvan', a trip of 170 miles. The morning started with a drive to Chbteau d'Epoisses, a lovely Chbteau of the 13th, 15th and 17th centuries and the private property of Count and Countess Hughes de Guitaut. Here the twenty three GTO owners and their passengers enjoyed a tasting of local cheeses. Shortly afterward, during the drive for lunch at Chbteau Bazoches de Morvan, an elder local driver of a small car crashed into the Ferrari 250 GTO owned by former Microsoft president Jon Shirley. This happened at a junction and the GTO was hit on the left front. Fortunately nobody was hurt but this accident meant the end of the GTO Tour for the Shirleys. The GTO was placed on a flatbed and trucked back to the hotel. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Junior Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 211 Registered: 1-2002 |
Doody, The pirctures come from an owners meeting and rally to commemorate the 40th anniversary of the GTO; held in Bourgogne, France. See all the photos below: http://www.barchetta.cc/All.Ferraris/events-stories/events/2002/250-gto-40th-anniversary-meet/250-gto-40th-anniversary-meet-gallery/index.html | ||
| C. Smith (Italianauto)
Junior Member Username: Italianauto Post Number: 128 Registered: 10-2001 |
The "Seattle guys" buying mega-buck F-cars are filthy rich in Microsoft bucks...insurance coverage for them is nothing....I would feel rich if I could just pay the insurance premiums on such beautiful cars.....oh well...... | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Junior Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 246 Registered: 5-2002 |
I wonder how many of those GTOs were bought back in the late 60s and early 70s by regular guys who picked them up for dirt cheap? How much does one pay to insure and drive a car that valuable? | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Member Username: Doody Post Number: 463 Registered: 11-2001 |
wow. this is nothing short of stunning. i pulled my "Ferrari 250" book by Nicola Cutrera, which contains a lot of great stats and details on chassis #s. there are apparently 36 "true" 250 GTOs in the world. taunus list includes 22 of them (4561SA is apparently not considered a true 250 (it has an "uncertain chassis... with a 400 Superamerica engine" according to Roush and Cutrera)). here are the 14 that weren't present, fwiw: 3223 3505 3589 3647 3769 3851 3869 3987 4153 4491 4675 4757 5095 5571 taunus - were you actually at this event? where was it? when? doody. | ||
| C. Smith (Italianauto)
Junior Member Username: Italianauto Post Number: 126 Registered: 10-2001 |
Actually Jason, we both missed out on a very cool garage tour a couple of months ago....a couple of friends of mine attended a "private" tour of both Greg Whitten's and Jon Shirley's cars (I'm assuming Whitten and Shirley are very nice guys...a lot of people got to see their collections).....they both have huge warehouses filled with rare Ferraris.....I think it was held during the weekend of the historic races at SIR....anyone here attend ? | ||
| Jason Godsil (Godsil)
Junior Member Username: Godsil Post Number: 123 Registered: 9-2001 |
There is my favorite, S/N 3607. There is a real GTO in Seattle!?! I would love to see a real one, I didn't know there was one so close to me. How would I get in touch with one of these guys? Thanks. | ||
| C. Smith (Italianauto)
Junior Member Username: Italianauto Post Number: 125 Registered: 10-2001 |
I see that at least 2 of those cars have owners living in the Seattle area!(Greg Whitten and Jon Shirley).....some guys buy baseball teams.....the cool ones buy mega-buck Ferraris...... | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 766 Registered: 7-2001 |
What great pictures! They would make good candidates for the Ferrarichat calendar. | ||
| Ansgar Schürmeyer (Taunus)
Junior Member Username: Taunus Post Number: 52 Registered: 6-2002 |
Nice, nice !!!   Chassis # Colour Driver/Entrant Notes 3387GT Blue Met� � White stripe B. Carl 3413GT Red G. Whitten �64 Re-body 3445GT Blue � Yellow stripe Y. Matsuda 3451GT Red L. Stroll 3527GT Red S. Pilkington 3607GT Red R. Walton 3705GT Red � French Tric� Stripe E. Davies 3729GT Red J. Shirley 3757GT Red N. Mason 3767GT Red A. Bamford 3809GT Red H. Ibing 3909GT Silver J. McCaw 3943GT Red T. Price 4091GT Dark Red P. Sachs �64 Re-body 4115GT Red P. Vestey 4219GT Dark Blue B. Wang 4293GT Red C. Connor 4399GT Red � Lt Blue stripe A. Bamford �64 Re-body 4561SA Red C. Vogele 4 litre 4713GT Red A. Wang LM berl� body 5111GT Red P.Pappalardo 5573GT Red P. Bardinon �64 Body 5575GT Red C.Hank �64 Body | ||
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