| Author | Message | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 905 Registered: 4-2002 |
ok fine ill have to move the electric garage door opener to the side, and figure something out..ok, we will talk tomorrow..thanks ttg bruce | ||
| Todd Gieger (Todd328gts)
Junior Member Username: Todd328gts Post Number: 161 Registered: 6-2002 |
Let's talk tomorrow...it's probably better if you come here to check it out 1st...or I can measure my garage and lift, etc...and see if it would work for yours...either way, we'll figure it out...you'll love it. | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 904 Registered: 4-2002 |
hey todd,thanks, and i love you....  when is lift day?? bruce | ||
| Todd Gieger (Todd328gts)
Junior Member Username: Todd328gts Post Number: 160 Registered: 6-2002 |
Bruce, To add to this post...I became more familiar with the 512TR at the Fcar show this weekend and I could see why the interest (HP, Jazzy Wheels, Last Generation)...yet your car is so fresh and it's a beast! I wouldn't consider it if I were you...If anything, have two sets of wheels to make up the styling difference...I personally don't think your TR needs anymore HP fo 50K plus...I love your car! | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 894 Registered: 4-2002 |
JIM TACOS GIVE ME HEARTBURN, BUT THANKS FOR THE OFFER BRUCE | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Junior Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 206 Registered: 7-2002 |
William: Thanks for the explanation. It doesn't seem so akward to me now. In fact it almost makes it cool. Note to Self: Never slow down enough to justify needing 1st gear! Also, Bruce if you decide to sell your TR let me know. I am still hovering on the horizon for one in the "future". Prefer black, but ohhhh that yellow! I will pay you $36K and trade you some tacos for it! | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1381 Registered: 2-2001 |
Jim all Ferraris exceot the autos & F1s of course have the same basic shift pattern. Reason 1st gear is down & to the left comes from Ferraris racing heritage, You almost never use 1st gear in a race so they just shoved it off to the side | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 892 Registered: 4-2002 |
THANK YOU DR MOON FOR YOUR INPUT AS WELL AS ALWAYS HENRY AND ROSS, THANK YOU GENTLEMAN AT THE TIME I HAD TO THINK ABOUT BUYING A 512TR, BUT NO NEW KITCHEN AND NEW CAR FOR THE WIFEY, AND A DIVORCE COMING...BUT 7 MONTHS LATER I LOVE MY FLY YELLOW 7400 MILED 88.5 TR, HAVE A BRAND NEW GUTTED KITCHEN, WIFEY HAS A NEW CAR, AND IM STILLED MARRIED.. I THINK I MADE THE RIGHT CHOICE AT THE TIME GIVEN..BUT WHO KNOWS LATER,, THANKS GUYS.. BRUCE | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Junior Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 204 Registered: 7-2002 |
I just went for a ride in my first TR this weekend and I noticed something I hadn't thought of. When shifting from 1st to 2nd you have to push the lever forward to 2nd instead of pulling it back into 2nd gear. Are other F-cars like that? I hadn't really thought about it until that moment. I guess it is no different than going from 2nd to 3rd in another car, but for some reason it seemed awkward to me. | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 327 Registered: 3-2002 |
mark, i agree with every word. i test drove a tr before buying the 512tr and it felt like a different era completely. had the 512tr now 2 years and have never looked back. the only problem i now face is that the original plan was to sell the 512tr and get something else; now i don't want to sell it ever, but still have the yen for something else.....just need to make more money and get more garage space. | ||
| Mark Moon M.D. (Enzomoon)
New member Username: Enzomoon Post Number: 8 Registered: 4-2002 |
Bruce: I first owned an 86 TR, folllowed by a 92 512TR, and now own an F512M. Believe me, the 512TR is a completely different animal from the Testarossa! Many aren't aware that 85% of all the components in the 512TR are new and different from the Testarossa. The driving dynamics are dramatically improved both on the track and the road. The 512M is also a fairly significant step above the 512TR, but probably only wortht the premium if you plan to keep it long term and really love the TR series. To me the 512TR and the M are totally different animals from the first series Testarossa. If you ever get a chance to drive the M you would be amazed, especially with how the Titanium Rods and increased compression ratio change the character of the car..the car is a BEAST! But, to me the 512TR is the steal on the Ferrari market right now. You can probably find a pristine example for $95-100k and believe me it is worth every penny! They simply don't make Ferraris like that any more unless you want to spend a quarter mil. Just test drive a 512TR and I think you will convince yourself of the huge improvement over the series 1 car. Mark Moon | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Junior Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 237 Registered: 8-2001 |
Well you could always ask Benny (Wide World of Cars) to loan you his F40 LM or F40 GTE, but rumor has it he lend you his wife or daughter before he let anyone drive his F40's (or his 333 for that matter). And of course if you even put a scratch in it we would never hear from you again. I have driven in Ali Ash's F40 (owns Ferrari of Washington) at Summit Point Raceway and it was an amazing ride even with stock brakes and street tires. Ali runs in the Challenge series and has won a few races so I can assume he was pretty close to the limit in his F40. The power made my 355C seem relatively tame by comparison. With decent brakes and slicks I would venture to guess he would be at least 3-4 seconds faster than the quickest 355C at Summit. Regards, Jon | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1360 Registered: 2-2001 |
SOunds good to me Jon, Who wants to lend me their F40 at the track ? an F40 LM would be Really cool!!!! | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Junior Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 236 Registered: 8-2001 |
I have to agree with Henry, the majority of people taking their Ferrari's to track events are there to have fun and bring their car back in one piece. Very few people like William, myself and a few other folks on this board are concerned with shaving a quarter second off our lap times. Most people are perfectly content running at 8/10's or below. The level of skill at most FCA and FOC track events varies widely and it doesn't make much sense to compare different cars without knowing the skill of those driving. In the past year I have noticed a huge influx of members who have switched from their road cars to full blown race cars (Challenge cars). Not trying to stereotype folks but half the 355 C's and 360 C's I encounter at track events are being driven 7/10's at most. At the May FOC event at the Glen we had two 355 Challenge drivers moved down to green/white group from blue because they didn't know what they were doing. If you are in an intermediate or novice group you don't need a Challenge car. I run with several 333SP's and they also fall into the fun category. The fastest 333's are running 2:00 flat at the Glen at track events. Matt K. is running only 6 seconds off their pace in his 355C so one can quickly see that driver skill plays a large role. A properly driven 333SP should be running low 1:40's at the Glen. With the dearth of full blown racing cars becoming more prevelant at track events it's getting harder and harder to convince folks of average ability that they don't belong in the "red" run group just because they have a Challenge car. The last event at the Glen had several 360 C's present, not one of which came close to hanging with my 355 C and my laps times are a good 3-4 seconds off the fastest driven 355C's at the Glen. There are plenty of people who can blast down the straight in their 360C and leave me for dead but very few who can lose me in a corner. Most track events have a good mix of different skill levels so the run groups usually have a good mix of people with the same skill levels. No matter what run group you are in there are going to be faster folks and slower folks, sometimes dependent on the car, sometimes dependent on the driver. There are people who attend one or two FCA track events per year just to have some fun, then there are hard core folks who do 10+ track events per year, and then you get a few people who race (either professionally or amatuer) that need to bring their car out to get some practice time. The speed discrepancies can be pretty enourmous so there is not much to be gained by making assumptions about your skill level relative to other folks in different cars. One of the things I noticed in my first season of SCCA racing is how pointless it is to compare your skill to others at track events. Too many variables (different cars, different skill levels, different goals for being at the track). When you get into racing the variables are all the same TO GO FAST and win. The last Spec Racer Ford race I competed in had 33 cars, the top 15 of which were seperated by less than 2 1/2 seconds. Even in SCCA racing at the regional level, everybody is fast. It's amazing how quick the fast guys are in the same machinery that the slower (read not as fast) guys are running. There is no shame in being passed by a better driver in a lesser car. It ain't what you drive but how you drive it. I was passed at VIR by a nearly bone stock Corvette Z06 driven by one of the front running Speedvision racers. Making the assumption that a Z06 can post faster lap times than a 355 Challenge car would be incorrect. Bill Johnston is jst a better driven than I am (he's won several SCCA National Championships and is a front runner in the Speed GT Championship). Ford powered Spec Racers with 105 hp run 2:14's at the Glen which is fast enough to keep up and in some cases pass most of the folks running in "red" group in cars with 300-400 hp. Of the dozen or so 355 and 360 C's at the Glen last month only two were running consistently below 2:10 and the other cars were running anywhere from 2:10's to 2:17's. Bottom line is that few F40 owners I have encountered drive their car at the limit. But make no mistake an F40 driven at the limit by equal drivers will post faster lap times than a 512TR. William ask someone to let you do a few laps in their F40 and see how much faster you are in the F40. I'd be curious to know. Regards, Jon | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1358 Registered: 2-2001 |
Henry, Chris & I ran together when I was in LA for the national meet. He's a cool guy, ask him about the events | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1357 Registered: 2-2001 |
I agree that an F40 should beat a 512TR with the same driver but its been my experience that very few cars get past my "Big Red" & then they r usually full race cars. | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 279 Registered: 8-2001 |
William: Maybe the owners of the F40s, and F50s, aren't as serious competitors, as you are. I have seen Corvettes, and Camaros, beat F40s and F50s at Road America......only to find out that the F owners are there to have fun. I am not here to argue, but I just can't see how an F40 would be slower....power to weight ratio, etc., considered. The biggest variable factor would have to be driver skill, ability, and desire to win the race. Most that I have seen are there just to have fun. A good comparison would be a race between you and your 512TR, against Chris (cmparrf40) and his F40....another, very serious competitor. Now THAT would be interesting....wouldn't you agree? I wish you the best. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1356 Registered: 2-2001 |
Bruce, if u dont track your car I'dsay just stick with the TR. The 512TR IS a great track car, Ive had mine on the track for almost 3 years, it runs like a freight train, has awesome power, sounds great, handles excellent in fast turns. You name it & I have run against it & probably beat it too F40s, F50s, Vipers, Z06, old Big Block Vettes, & yes I have stomped 2 Lotus Elises Ironically the big 512TR just flies at Lime Rock in CT which is a tight curvy 1.6 miles track. We just love that track, best time there so far is a 1:01:56, the fastest 355 Challenge cars are doing 0:58 there & I am lugging around a full road interior, AC, Radio, even a CD player The brakes really need to be improved & I got the first Brembo upgrade package which is so strong it will peel the rubber right off the tire if u r not careful Last year in the UK Maranello CHallenge a 512M beat everybody including F40s & F50s | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 880 Registered: 4-2002 |
henry..100% i agree with you, i was just asking... tom..sorry too, but my nj boys will be there... todd hutch adam g ( i think) barry w hope it doesnt rain for you guys.. bruce | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1359 Registered: 9-2001 |
yeah m's are a little pricy but nice - I also like their slight styling diffs in additon to the power. maybe you should have titled this thread - will my wife notice if I upgrade to a 512 TR Regards, sorry you will not be with us on Sun - still have not met you in person | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 278 Registered: 8-2001 |
Bruce: I also considered this, since I have an 88TR. My conclusion....NO! Unless you live on the Autobahn, I can't see how one can appreciate it on the US roads. The 88TR is more than adequate. Would you pay someone $1,000 to increase your 88TR's HP by one?....not me......than why pay $50,000 for basically the same car. I read how the 512TR is a great track car. I would like to know what other cars they are tracked against. Remember, the car, with driver, etc., weighs almost 4,000 lbs, if not more.....how does one consider this a track car? The fear of going off the track, with this weight, has to be considered. For the difference in price, I would keep the 88TR.....and buy a Lotus Elise......a REAL track car, that makes much more sense.....and beat 512TRs at almost ANY track. | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 879 Registered: 4-2002 |
tom i think a m car is about 145-160k, am i right?? actually my wife is cool, the new kitchen, new deck, and her new car were done before i bought my t.r, so i am safe for a while.. do you think she will notice if i buy the 512 and stick it in my garage?? your assignment tom, is to find a fly yellow 512, with 8500 miles, and btw, dont blow your horns here tomorrow at 8.00am, the state trooper who lives next door, works the 12-8 am shift... regards, bruce | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1354 Registered: 9-2001 |
Bruce your wife saw this thread and now you be redoing the rest of your house. 512 is the nicest of the TRs imho but then again usually the last in the series of any F-car is the best - hey why not consider an M. Now that is a beast | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 878 Registered: 4-2002 |
ok ross ill check it out.. thanks | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 323 Registered: 3-2002 |
please refer to what lloyd bemis put in the other thread on this subject called 'do you think the testarossa looks dated.' | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 877 Registered: 4-2002 |
i love my 88 tr and would like some input from other fellow tr and 512tr owners... other than the 512tr having: 50 more h.p approx 18 inch wheels a little styling difference better brakes and $50k more approx is it worth it to advance myself to the 512tr, even though i DONT track my car??? any input would be gracious.. thanks, bruce |