| Author | Message | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 671 Registered: 3-2001 |
As mentioned below, MBs are not meant to keep up with the exotics.... but I was surprised to see (in recent AutoWeek) the 1/4 mile time of the SL500... 15+ seconds. In this day & age, that is SLOW. | ||
| Dan (Bobafett)
New member Username: Bobafett Post Number: 3 Registered: 9-2002 |
Noelrp: They are not, in fact, leasing the cars out. They are available for sale when you take delivery. If you guys want real information from owners, check out forums.mbworld.org under the SL55 category. Also, I believe the 'Carp and Drivel' (nice one! definetly how I feel about these American mags) numbers are completely off-base. Real-world tests are the only answer. --Dan | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Junior Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 85 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hey Modman, not sure what most of your message said, but I agree with the gist  The pleasure and full spectra of motoring can be found only in long-term ownership. Would love to add an SL73, or CL600 to my collection. Best! Ben | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Member Username: Modman Post Number: 360 Registered: 11-2001 |
In my opinion MBZ is not in the market to compete with exotics or to be sporty race cars but to make their luxury cars in a class of their own as you know most of their cars are automatics but pretty powerfull, smooth and handle nicely considering their weight. I was surprised how much has improved in the last decade as I always thought of them to drive like boats but this decade it's a whole new company that makes cars for the demanding few. You gotta have a new Benz to understand why it has to be part of your car family, forget the minor computer bugs, just own one and drive it and you will understand what I'm talkin about. I've driven a lot of high end luxury cars in my field of business and work on them so I get to drive and see it first hand on their quality build. Hate to say but a lot of car manufacturers are building cars very cheaply, esp. Honda, tin cans and too much disposable plastic even on BMW 3 series. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1473 Registered: 2-2001 |
Lou, dunno about Tubi but I know Renntech does, they had a CLK at Cavallino in January that sounded like a NASCAR I drove a CL500 & had the same experience, and that was right after driving my 512TR which howls like a Banshee | ||
| Lou B (Toby91)
Junior Member Username: Toby91 Post Number: 87 Registered: 4-2001 |
Just spent a half day hot lapping a demo SL500 back to back with my 360 Spider at Mt Tremblant race track. The Sl500 was very very impressive, not as quick as my F1 360 but very smooth and almost impossible to lose through the twisties with all that stability electronics. One fatal flaw however, total silence. It was like driving a bank vault. Does TUBI make a SL500 system? I have every expectation the SL55 would be very competative with the 360. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1466 Registered: 2-2001 |
saw a gorgeous MB500SL in Rosso Corsa today, would look even better with some Ferrari shields on the front fenders | ||
| Najib Amanullah (Najib)
Junior Member Username: Najib Post Number: 209 Registered: 4-2001 |
Modman, thanks for the input. I too am a big fan of the larger Benzes. I think the current crop from MB have stolen even the sporting crown from BMW (they always were more luxurious and spacious). The pre 2000 were perhaps too bulky but built like tanks (very solid). I think I'll probably go for the new S350 which is due here later this year. | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Member Username: Modman Post Number: 358 Registered: 11-2001 |
Najib, I own 3 Benzes, the ML and E class have had zero problems, the CL had a module replaced in the door when the window module that controlled the windows to shut after closing the doors was working randomly, other than that our summer 105 plus temp. does no harm to any of these cars and I drive them hard. I am faithfull to the upper end Benzes as their build quality and features I have found not seen in many cars as far as features I like most. The Cl is very high tech in motoring and electronic advancement and as far as the big body Benzes prior to 00 I can't say much of them since not owning them. | ||
| Najib Amanullah (Najib)
Junior Member Username: Najib Post Number: 207 Registered: 4-2001 |
Modman How does the MB stack up in severe weather conditions? I hear their electronics are a bit delicate. It is kind of putting me off the S320/350 which will be my daily driver. Do you think it will melt in high temperatures...and I mean high 47c +? | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Member Username: Modman Post Number: 354 Registered: 11-2001 |
The new "Vision" SLR - based on the McLaren, Yup.... There are times when I go on a long drive or areas where I wouldn't want to take an exotic car to for many reasons we all known to encounter so in reality an exotic car for daily use is really not practical. I love the comfort, power, handling, and the pure luxury in my CL that I have not seen in any exotic car I know of. Can't say I don't know what I'm talkin about cause I've had my share of experience when there are those who can just only imagine which don't count fairly know what I mean Ben. One of the best experiences in knowing a car well is to own one, it's hard to know a car well by just a simple one day test drive. I drove my friends new E46 M3 and I thought it was boring and timid but then again it's what you are use to driving and I only drove it for the day. | ||
| NGSVDO (Azspider)
Junior Member Username: Azspider Post Number: 91 Registered: 6-2001 |
Unfortunately, the dealers and their sales people are the ones to blame. I have been told the sales people from the Phoenix dealership are the ones placing orders at the other dealers for themselves. I understand this on a personal level of greed but the dealers should protect their loyal customers. MB built their reputation on customer loyalty and this is clearly a poor direction for them in my opinion. But then again, does my opinion matter to them? | ||
| Noelrp (Noelrp)
Junior Member Username: Noelrp Post Number: 77 Registered: 8-2001 |
I, too, has tried to place an order for an SL55. But since I was given a cloudy answer by my dealer about the ETA (4 years wait?), I opted to order an SL500 Sports instead ($30k less and the looks is just as good). Two weeks ago they offered me a silver SL500 Sports @list. I declined it because I need to have a white SL (no flame please about my choice of color). I have been told that MBUSA will only be leasing all future SL55 to detract buyers from gouging the price (sort of what Ferrari tried to do with the Barchetta). | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Junior Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 77 Registered: 6-2002 |
SL73, say WHAT now?! <drool> The previous generation SL was certinly one of the most... hansome? cars in the world. The NEW one makes it look like an ugly pig! Simply georgeous, and I had no idea the SL55 was that fast... I. Uh. No words. CL600 I also find georgeous, with the roofline... mmmm... Definately have to have one. Gotta be the V-12 though. Sadly, Mercedes seems to have ditched 12cyl 4-v DOHC for retrograde 3-valve SOHC... Wonder if the SL73 will finally get a DOHC again? Don't get me wrong, I'd take a 348 before an SL. But I happen to dezire BOTH an SL, and several Ferraris! To hell with those 'if you had to have just one' questions! Best! Ben. | ||
| NGSVDO (Azspider)
Junior Member Username: Azspider Post Number: 90 Registered: 6-2001 |
William, have you ordered your car yet? The MB Dealers here in Phoenix are tough. The Phoenix dealer refused to take an order, the Scottsdale store took my name and the Chandler store took my money and then started playing games. They sent my check back after they decided that they are unsure of their allocation even after they gave me my number. My business partner actually had his ordered with a delivery date and an MD order and they are now telling him that he has lost his also(he has our lawyer on them for that one). Unbelievable what Mercedes is allowing their dealers to get away with. They used to be really tough on these issues. We are both loyal MB owners and are being treated like crap. I will personally not buy another MB if this is how they are doing business now. Just curious if and when you get yours if you had a good experience. | ||
| Modified348ts (Modman)
Member Username: Modman Post Number: 350 Registered: 11-2001 |
MB does make one of the best if not the best road cars in the world. As for a road car for everyday driving my CL600 is my favorite of all the cars I ever had. It is a separate world from an exotic and if I had only one choice of car to drive everyday for the rest of my life, well it would be an S600 CL600 or SL55, although an SUV or 4dr. p-up may be more practical I'd still take a luxury car. I like a car that works for me and not work for the car most of the time, although the Ferrari and lambo, you must work for them but hey that's what these cars demand from you and it's fun when you're in the mood.... | ||
| Najib Amanullah (Najib)
Junior Member Username: Najib Post Number: 206 Registered: 4-2001 |
Why are we surprised with the performance of the SL 55? Aren't these the guys who built the Gullwing and the 300 Roadster (one of the most attractive and certainly THE MOST advanced road car of its time)!!! Lets not knock them...MB still make fantastic cars in very category. | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 270 Registered: 10-2001 |
The SL 55 is as fast as a 575 Maranello be it on track or on the dragstrip . It pains me to say this but its true ! 0-124 mph in 15s ! It can reach 330 kmh when without the speed limiter..and it laps the ring as fast as the 550 M ! Ouch ! | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 288 Registered: 4-2002 |
Now that I have the magazine in front of me, the MB was a wee bit faster than the Maserati. Even with its huge weight, I still think the MB should be faster than showed up in the test. It carries 8.95 pounds per hp. The Maserati carries 9.85 pounds per hp. My SLK32 AMG carries 9.31 pounds per hp. The SL55 weighs as much as an SUV(4411 pounds). | ||
| Matt Karson (Squidracing)
Junior Member Username: Squidracing Post Number: 178 Registered: 3-2001 |
I totally agree. | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 287 Registered: 4-2002 |
Did you guys see the write up in this month's "Carp and Drivel"? The new supercharged SL was road tested. I was a little unimpressed with the acceleration figures. Look at the incremental time from 70-100. For that kind of power and torque, it should be better. I test all my cars over that speed range after correcting for speedometer error. My SLK32 AMG does it repeatedly in 4.7-4.8 seconds at 50 F. The power to weight ratio is better in the one tested than it is in my SLK32. I have to wonder if it was running right. I think a 360 is much faster in this speed range. I think the Maserati tested in the same issue was faster. Zero to sixty times are somewhat inconclusive to me because you can fool around with tranny ratios to get a good time only to have the car die in acceleration past 60. Beyond 60 incremental times are more important in my opinion. | ||
| Najib Amanullah (Najib)
Junior Member Username: Najib Post Number: 203 Registered: 4-2001 |
Just to add to this discussion, Autocar reported that the new S600 will do 0-60 mph in 4.8 secs all day long. That is on an auto box. Very few Ferraris will be beating that. I haven't driven the 360 but I would imagine that to achieve the stated acceleration performance, one would have to really thrash it. Apparently, the CL will have the same twin turbo engine. What if they fit it in the future SL? | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 362 Registered: 3-2002 |
kind of o/t but the thread is going that way....does anyone have any personal experience between the sl55 and the z8? or between the z8 and 360 spider? i know the ferrari will win the 'visceral thrill' category but how about speed and competence? | ||
| Matt Karson (Squidracing)
Junior Member Username: Squidracing Post Number: 177 Registered: 3-2001 |
I hear you Ernesto....I hear you loud and clear pal. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 723 Registered: 2-2001 |
Some of us need that "visceral thrill" during EVERYDAY driving. Ernesto | ||
| Matt Karson (Squidracing)
Junior Member Username: Squidracing Post Number: 176 Registered: 3-2001 |
Gentlemen....I have to chime in with my two cents. I have driven (agressivly) a SL55 AMG. It is THE finest EVERYDAY driver I have ever had the opportunity to drive. Personally, I would take one over anything Ferrari puts out. Mind you, this is ONLY as an everyday driver. For visceral thrill, Ferrari kicks major butt over it. | ||
| A.Tonokaboni (Senna1994)
New member Username: Senna1994 Post Number: 10 Registered: 9-2002 |
What happened was the first 100 SL55's were rated at 469hp same as the E55 AMG coming out. Mercedes did some relatively minor changes and now they are putting out 493 bhp (500 Din. One of the reasons was to distance the S & CL cars from the E55. Also the CLK55 coming out in about 6 months will have the non supercharged engine putting out 367 bhp. As far as a 360 vs SL55, this is Ferrari Chat, give me the Ferrari anyday. Remember when the 90 SL came out, now they are common, which will also happen to the regular SL500. The Ferrari will forever be special. My 2 cents | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 283 Registered: 4-2002 |
If the tranny on the 55SL is like the one on my SLK32 AMG, once it senses you getting aggressive, it won't upshift until you flick the lever or push the button it its case. Ditto if you downshift manually. There is no slip except in first gear (below 1500 rpm) so the slushy auto feel does not exist. It will not upshift when corning. The speed of the shifting is quite a bit faster than a regular auto. You definitely feel it downshifting as you slow down. But that is the lock up aspect of it. Whether big brother works the same way, I don't know. | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 356 Registered: 3-2002 |
bret, i read and saw the same. but i have also been told a few other things recently by a friend whose karting teammate is one of coulthards mechanics. apparently the first iteration of the sl55 engine put out about 450bhp but had some breathing problems. so they briefly stopped production and reworked the engine, and the latest spec puts out about 508bhp. (those having taken delivery of the first couple hundred must be pissed off!). the sl55 used as the pace car has about 550bhp (hence the approx 100 bhp over standard figure...); and it looks nearly the same as the regular sl55, but you can tell the difference by the extra vents on either side of the front spoiler. otherwise it looks completely stock and has the same badges as the regular car. and yes, i have asked this guy if he can sign me up to buy the pace car at the end of the season, but i think i am probably pretty far down the list....... but i figure with this car, who needs the slr ? | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2687 Registered: 2-2001 |
Sorry, some of the people from a couple months ago seemingly did nothing but that "try to prove someone wrong" addition to this site. It seems in the past months it has changed back to normal though, I haven't really signed on since May or June. I thought it was gonna start into one of those things, so I apologize for being a little tense about it. It just sucks when people sign on to do that because I mean we're all supposed to be on the same side here, into the Ferrari thing and all. I remember one guy that start bitching at me about a tech post, not about what I said in relation to fixing a car, just personally attacking me because he didn't like me. I was like wtf is going here. Sorry again and I'm glad that it was just a misinterpretation on my part. They keep that MB stuff real hush hush because they want to look good. I wish I could find the article about it that I read. They guessed about 110hp over stock which follows what the mechanic said. It was either in F1 or F1 magazine, one of the two. They also had a thing on Speedvision I think about it, I think it was before the Monza GP. If I ever dig it up I'll post it. It's a cool car regardless. Relating it to Ferrari, it's like when they tell you the 360 Challenge cars have the same horsepower as the street cars...lol. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Junior Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 237 Registered: 1-2002 |
Bret, Relax, I wasn't attacking your credibility, just stating my opinion. And, if I intimated that I 'knew better' than the experts you consulted, I aplogize. I was just trying to convey that, IMO, an F1 car would have to suffer a severe handicap to 'struggle' to maintain pace w/ a street car, however modfied, thats all, but perhaps my choice of words was too sardonic. Its just the internet, nothing to take seriously. -Hubert | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Junior Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 236 Registered: 1-2002 |
Dave, Thank you, as an addendum to my post: http://www.dailyf1.com/en/features/feature.php?id=27 Gets into the details of the pace cars tuning. Sorry again for the misnomer. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2686 Registered: 2-2001 |
Schumacher came out and said that about the pace car and the F1 cars on dry tires in the rain in the rain, so I personally would take his word, although you might know better than him. It was in F1 magazine a few months ago. Regarding Mercedes, two weeks ago at the company picnic I talked to the guy responsible for shipping and the mechanic in charge of checking over the pace car for Indianapolis and he told me that about it. But you might know better than them. Would I type these things if I had no idea what I was talking about? I mean seriously. | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 267 Registered: 10-2001 |
The 360 is much more exciting and sounds definetly better than the SL 55 which sounds like a muscle car ( Dont like that kind of sound ). And the SL55 is still an Auto even with buttons on the steering wheel , its still 100% auto .. Its a V8 Kompressor BTW not a V12 as someone said.. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 435 Registered: 1-2002 |
Hubert, that was last season. This season, it is the SL55 AMG. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Junior Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 234 Registered: 1-2002 |
"The F1 cars on slicks in the rain actually have trouble keeping up with the MB pace cars, particularly in the turns where the 3000lbs extra weight helps." I don't know, doesn't sound possible to me; unless the F1 cars were on dry tires, that were balding, and in the midst of a rainstorm. In regard to the F1 pace car, the car is reworked by AMG to allow it to sustain a moderate pace under yellow to allow the F1 cars t omaintain temp in the tires. And, if I remember; the pace car only has minor mods: ----------------------------- Affalterbacher Motorengesellschaft (AMG) The AMG philosophy is: "one man, one engine". When an AMG-engine is finished it is the work of just one mechanic. This mechanic picks up the first moulds, stamps the engine number and then continues building the whole Kraftwerk. Mercedes-AMG believes that this approach guarantees perfection. AMG's 5.5-litres V-8 performs up to 530 nm and pushes the E55, CLK55, G55, CL55, SL55, ML55 and S55 in 5.4 to 6.8 seconds from 0 to 100 km/h. AMG's 7.3-litres V-12 performs 750 NM @ 4000 rpm and shots the SL73 roadster in 4.8 seconds from 0 to 100 km/h. CL55 AMG Pace Car The new Formula 1 Safety Car... spectators and television viewers around the world had the first glimpse of Mercedes-Benz's new pace car when it appeared on the track during the Melbourne Grand Prix in 2001. This silver flagship coupe will be present at all international Formula 1 races as the official Safety Car, which is brought into action whenever the field is "frozen" for a short period due to rain or accidents. In this role, the CL55 AMG replaces the CLK 55 AMG, which has proved its capabilities as a Safety Car at the Grand Prix races of the last few seasons - often out of sight of the millions of spectators. Even when the Safety Car does take the head of the field at a race, it certainly doesn't mean crawling along. To ensure that the high-tech engines of the sensitive Formula 1 racers do not overheat and their tyres do not cool and thereby lose adhesion, the Safety Car as lead car has to set a quick pace. On some tracks, that requirement means speeds of up to 280 km/h. The car has a racing car brake system. A much stiffer wheel damping characteristic is employed and the car is lowered by about 15 mm. The front track is wider by 20 mm and the rear track by 30 mm. At the front, the Mercedes AMG Safety Car runs on wide size 255/40 tyres fitted on 8.5 x 19 inch wheels. At the rear, the car has size 285/35 tyres on 9.5 x 19 inch wheels. The special equipment for deployment on Grand Prix tracks is completed by racing-design bucket seats with 4-point harness belts, an interior design in sporty carbon instead of wood trim, and the lighting system specified by the FIA with roof lights, together with the radio system with camera and TV equipment. The CL55 AMG will be driven by factory race team driver, Bernd Maylander. ---------------------------------- B/W the two, it all depends on what you like, and what your intended use is. The 360 is more attention grabbing, a v-8 vs. v-12, coupe v/ retractable hardtop, etc., at first glance the cars may be comprable, but there is hardly anything shared b/w the two, what would ultimatly really instigate me toward the Ferrari would be the lighter, nimbler chassis, and the manual gearbox, that aside, the MB might be fun, for a different driving expereince. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2680 Registered: 2-2001 |
My mom and sister work for MB at their US headquarters here in NJ so I get to check out all the cars before they come out. The SL55 is cool as hell and is really good sounding. What they wont tell you though is that the MB that they use for F1 pace cars usually put out about 100-150HP more than stock ones do. Much more aggressive cams and pistons, and engine management of course, and in this case boost I would have to assume. The F1 cars on slicks in the rain actually have trouble keeping up with the MB pace cars, particularly in the turns where the 3000lbs extra weight helps. It is still a sweet road car though in stock form. I can safely say I would take a 360, F1 or manual for that matter, over any MB short of CLK GTR. | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
Member Username: Bahiaau Post Number: 368 Registered: 12-2001 |
I'd rather have the SL55 than the 360. | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 434 Registered: 1-2002 |
Dude, the SL55 is one of the best sounding cars I have EVER heard! One is the F1 pace car, and I was very close to it idling, and then driving off under hard accel. at the race in Montreal in June, and lemme tell you: FINALLY a European car sounds proper!!!!!! I almost needed a Depends, it sounded so good! | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1421 Registered: 2-2001 |
So my cousin is giving me his spot for his 55SL, seems he doesnt want it now. Thinking I'll order a nice burgundy or blue one. My cuz told me he is interested in a 360 which surprised me cus he's not exactly a demon driver. Guess the Ferrari red mist has finally bitten. I think he'd b better off with an SL500 or a Vette but whatever. So whats the going price for a 360 coupe with 10,000 + miles ? price diff between F1 & manual? Thanks |