| Author | Message | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 373 Registered: 8-2001 |
Terry, your explanation makes sense. I can understand and accept that someone is trying to add the latest technology in a limited time and does not have the time to test everything. So it would have some teething pains, but they could be solved. I deal with this in computers all the time. I have considered the NSX. However, I do not believe they have a full convertible, I love the beauty of the Ferrari better, and the Ferrari seems like more fun/excitement. Even if a Ferrari salesman recently asked me if I drive like this all the time. I scared him a little even if I was way below what the car and I could do. | ||
| Allen Cook (Alcook62)
Junior Member Username: Alcook62 Post Number: 51 Registered: 3-2002 |
I can only speak of the experience I have had with the 308 GT4 I purchased in February of this year. The build quality of this car is excellent. The doors shut with a solid satisfying feel. There are no squeaks or rattles of any kind. This is a twenty-eight year old car with 44K miles, mind you. From my observations, if this is indicative of the build quality that Ferrari has, keep it up. | ||
| Terry (Dogue)
Junior Member Username: Dogue Post Number: 117 Registered: 9-2001 |
Everyone I have ever met that has owned a 348 LOVED the car and had very few problems. Every article I have read states that it is the worst Ferrari (in build quaility). I think the difference is that the cars have been around for many years now and most of the problems have been sorted out. The 348 if owned by a person who cares for his cars and did all updates and maintained the car should have few problems. Everyone I know that owns a 360 has had some problems, mostly related to grounds. I am confident that these problems will be sorted out also and in the future the 360 will have very few problems also. The replacement to the 360 will have growing pains also, Mainly because Ferrari is trying to ad more and more F1 technology into their production cars. They are trying to compete with cars that are less expensive and faster. When a company like Chevy makes 100K or more corvettes over time and has just updated the car from year to year making it slightly better than last, but on the same platform it will have less problems. This is the same for the 911. Ferraris on the other hand, make big strides between models and make a very small number of cars. Also the cars on average are driven fewer miles per year than the other two examples. This means all problems will take longer to arise and longer to figure out. Ferraris are expensive to purchase, maintain and repair. They are very limited production and have many problems associated with trying to limit production and manufacture a race car for the streets. They are EXOTIC and will require patience and money to maintain. They are worth every bit of heartache and cost, to someone with the passion for the car. IF you don't have the passion, buy another car. Buy a NSX, it is a great car with very good build quality, very inexpensive to purchase in comparison, very fast for the money, and very little passion. | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 368 Registered: 8-2001 |
A good example of what I am talking about is the 360. The mechanical design team should be greatly rewarded. I like the body design, but some do not. However, there do appear to be problems with quality control on the F1 and grounding problems. Do I think the advantanges outway these disadvantages? YES Before I accept delivery of the replacement for the 360, will I be checking into are these issues solved? YES What is wrong with having this knowledge or any other knowledge? What is wrong with asking questions to get knowledge? Restricting knowledge just to what one wants is a trait of Nazi Germany or Communist Russia. Should one be put down for seeking knowledge? Not in a free country. | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 367 Registered: 8-2001 |
Thanks for the helpful comments. Thanks Willis - looks like you went through what I am going through. I rarely complain, but I do research major purchases especially the ones that can continue to involve major expendures of money and/or time. Nothing is perfect, so I like to know the problem areas going in. Then I can make an informed decision. Are some people so insecure in their choices that they cannot admit that their choices are not perfect? What is wrong with saying, "yes it has these problems, but the joys or benifits outway the problems"? That is far more honest then saying it has no problems, when it does. My comments show why I am interested in Ferraris. Already have two Mercedes. They are far from perfect, but are the best set of compromises for what they were bought for. Have never complained. I knew the tradeoffs or strengths and weaknesses or risks up front and could make an informed decision. | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
New member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 47 Registered: 8-2002 |
After owning a Porsche 911 which I thought was the ultimate in quality I must say a Ferrari is easily and by far the ultimate sports car The attention to detail is unparaelled, as I looked under the back of my rear valance on my 328 I could not believe the detail of various screens etc , just look under the front and rear hoods you see the crinkle finish, the all leather interior, the incredible sounds from the engines and lastly the work of art pinninfarina body Ferrari has it all, its what every other pretender maker hopes to achieve not to mention the legend of "The Grand Old Man" Enzo | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 307 Registered: 10-2001 |
I can hear it now... Your Maserati will be ready in 3 months. *We don't got the parts *We don't have the mechanics (too many f-cars waiting) Or is this just something Ferarri plays with Ferrari owners. Since Maserati is now classified as a daily driver. A 360 must not be a daily driver if they can take weeks or months to sort one out when something goes wrong? | ||
| jake diamond (Rampante)
New member Username: Rampante Post Number: 13 Registered: 4-2002 |
now that FNA is foisting the maserati upon the U.S. market, they better start to get their act together. a "mass market" vehicle that is to be sold in greater numbers is going to cause them beaucoup problems with the public if they think they can get away with an effite attitude (a la the F cars). most customers of this catagory of automobile like to get their ass kissed, NOT kicked!! | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Member Username: Markg Post Number: 272 Registered: 2-2001 |
Dave: I have an '82 GTSi that cost me an additional $15k above purchase price in first month of ownership. AFTER spending all that it still up a died on me on freeway one day. I also became discouraged to the point I would have sold it then and there if a buyer had been handy! HOWEVER: the fit and finish of the body, interior and paint is exceptional - this is a solid car! Plan up front on re-doing fuses by cleaning block and upgrading to glass fuses; replace water pump with new large bearing version; spend a day removing all electrical connections, cleaning them and re-assembling them (I used Stabilant-22 on mine). I can tell you now that my 20 year old 308 runs better than any car I've owned .... | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 947 Registered: 8-2001 |
I rationalized liked that before I ordered the Ferrari. Almost talked myself out of it several times. I'm so glade I stuck with my decision and enjoy every second behind the wheel of my 360. | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 251 Registered: 2-2001 |
The state of world economy may've had something to do w/Ferrari's drop in sales during the period of NSX intro, Dave. Specifically, doubt many cross-shopped new Ferrari v new NSX. Also, wouldn't count on Lambo to be the catalyst for an upgrade in Ferrari quality. | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 366 Registered: 3-2002 |
actually i can't hold myself back anymore....dave please don't buy a ferrari....i don't think i could bear to hear about all the 'problems' that you would find.....just buy a mercedes and go tell the mercchatters about how bad it is. | ||
| Barry Wolinsky (308gtb)
Member Username: 308gtb Post Number: 292 Registered: 2-2002 |
So don't buy a Ferrari. | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 362 Registered: 8-2001 |
I was hoping that Ferrari quality would go up when the new Lambo became available in 2004/2005. Just like Ferrari quality went up when the NSX came out. Ferrari sales dropped 50 % from about 4,000 to about 2,000 when the NSX came out. You are convincing me - maybe I should not buy a Ferrari. I will take a look at MB and BMWs - I have never liked the looks of a Porsche. The Healey was used as an almost daily car. After a hard day, it was nice to see the Healey in the parking lot and think of the fun driving home. The Healey received great preventative maintenace, but I still had problems. Some self induced like ripping the exhaust out on a dirt/gravel road in W. Va. on a nice fall day. I sold it because of a woman and it was a mistake. When I consulted in Las Vegas, I used to pass a lady on the way to work. She drove a VW convertible, whatever it is. She always had a smile on her face. Then I saw the TR at Exotic Car Rentials and fell in love with it. I thought this might be a worthy replacement for the Healey. Of course, this would also be good in a business or social situation. This would also be good for high speed cross country drives when it is needed. Seemed like a hell of a lot of fun - just like the Healey. Phoenix has been good because there are an unbelieveable number of Ferraris here. Good place to learn. Ferraris are far more a hastle to buy than any other car I have seen. Some owners are way too sensative. Why, nothing is perfect? Since it will be an almost daily driver, I have accepted that it will get dings and not be as nice as a showroom quality one. I have also accepted that when it becomes high milage, the value will be quite low. Love the TR, but it is not tossable enough for my needs. Love the 348 and thought it might be the ideal car even considering potential problems. Love the 328 GTS, and its reliability, but like a true convertible better. Think the 360 Spider is one of the most beautiful cars ever made. Love the driving of the 355. Also reliability of the cars seem to have been going up which is important if one is to use it quite frequently. After doing extensive reading in Forza (thinks to people in Phoenix and talkinig to many people), have been evolving in thinking to a 3.2 Mondial convertible for daily use, and then the replacement for the 360 spider as a second Ferrari. Hopefully Lambo would force Ferrari to improve build quality. Both would get high milage. The engine and driveline on the 3.2 appear bullet proof. This would give me two totally different Ferraris for different uses. I thought this was a great example of a 3.2 Mondial. I am computers_and_photography. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1863301150 However, have not been able to get a straight answer if the maintenance paperwork is available. Also it appears that at least one fender and at least one door panel along with both bumpers have been painted to "remove scratches". However, not been able to get more details. Tires are claimed to be standard, but it sure looks like spin off metric. Carfax checks out. Reserve is $40,000.00 which seems high to me. Previously did not sell with a reserve of $42,500.00. It seems like dealing with anything Ferrari is a major hastle. Maybe you are right - I should not buy a Ferrari. | ||
| Barry Wolinsky (308gtb)
Member Username: 308gtb Post Number: 291 Registered: 2-2002 |
My 1976 308 GTB Fiberglass is now 26 years old and has remained structurally sound. The fiberglass panels are straight and original paint shows only minimal crazing. The car has been serviced regularly over its 23,500 miles and has never experienced any malfunction. I would say that the build quality of my car is excellent. | ||
| Najib Amanullah (Najib)
Junior Member Username: Najib Post Number: 202 Registered: 4-2001 |
Jeff, I would not take that kind of crap from any garage - no matter how good they are technically. Dave, I know you have been in the market for an F car for some time now. The simple fact is that, like it or not, you dont keep one of these for your daily chores. Imagine driving to the supermarket every couple of days for your groceries in a Ferrari, a small ding on the door alone will justify purchase of a medium priced Japanese car for these chores. There is nothing that says you cannot use them as daily drivers (they are reliable enough). However, they are raw sports cars and most owners would not want to put these cars through the rigors of a slow crawl in heavy traffic or commuting daily to and from work. IMHO an MB, BMW or Lexus will be more suitable and comfortable than most Ferraris for this type of use. The F cars ride will be more firm, its gear change will not be as smooth and its AC will probably not be as effective and as with most sports cars, there is a LOT more engine music in the cabin. But for the passion, all owners will put up with all of this and love their cars. Quality used to be an issue in the past. But nowadays you even read about MB's and 3 series BMW's with poor build quality issues. | ||
| Najib Amanullah (Najib)
Junior Member Username: Najib Post Number: 201 Registered: 4-2001 |
Do you think Monte was just pissed off because he had to pay and maintain his Ferrari on his own money as opposed to a freebie from the factory??!!! Martin, why dont you start talking down the price of the 348 then you and perhaps I can buy a couple more ...Ha Ha. | ||
| Jason (Jason)
New member Username: Jason Post Number: 32 Registered: 11-2001 |
Well, when Ferrari engines start throwing rods through the block then you'll have something to complain about  http://members.roadfly.org/jason/m3engines.htm And even Toyota/Lexus is having engine problems. http://www.wusatv9.com/consumer/consumer_article.asp?storyid=4725 | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 305 Registered: 10-2001 |
Ferrari's are so cheap to keep running. Compared to a helicopter or a Yacht, a Ferrari is one of the cheapest toys a rich man can have. Problem is that they are so cheap that the average man ( like myself ) can afford them. But we kind of look at the cost of keeping them running compared to transportation automobiles. It is a mistake on our part. Once you see the logic of this, you understand why these hand built race/street car is not even trying to compete in the same category as a regular road car. A friend told me that her $6million Yacht need about $600,000 a year in maintenance. Now that boat is one fine hand-made item. So next time you drop $15k in a year on your $150k 360 don't complain. Right? | ||
| Tom Bakowsky (Tbakowsky)
New member Username: Tbakowsky Post Number: 10 Registered: 9-2002 |
Well I have to say, that as a mechanic who has worked on lots of Ferrari's 348's ,355,s 328's 308's, Mondial's etc...I'm going to have to say that the 308/328 series of Ferrari were probbably the best of the bunch. All you have to do is open and shut the door on a 308/328 car and then compare that to a 348 or 355.You can just feel and hear the differance. The 348/355 cars are all thin stamped steel construction undernieth with a bolt-up tubular frame section which holds the engine and trans assem. I've replaced lower control arms(rear) on 355s that have just fatiged to the point that they break. In my eyes there is not much differance between the 348 and the 355, other than power-steering and 5 valves per cylinder and a little bit different interior. Mostly all the body panels on the 355 bolt directly on the 348,the brakes are a direct carry-over from the 348. And in both cars that crappy card board covered felt in the front compartment, and that cheap looking plastic steering colum cover with the V.I.N number on it looks horriable on a car that when new cost $200,000. And still they carry that over to the 360. But I LOVE them...I LOVE...them I LOVE them....etc Can't get enough of them...:0) | ||
| J.D. Smythe (Jeff)
Junior Member Username: Jeff Post Number: 56 Registered: 2-2001 |
Martin My wife also has MB and it too had some expensive problems, all covered by warranty, but the big difference between her MB and my 360 is that MB fixes the problem in ONE day and gives her a loaner car to drive. Unlike Ferrari that took 5 plus weeks to get a $2.00 O-ring from Italy. No loaner car and verbage from the service manager that my car "will be fixed when it gets fixed" | ||
| John Moretti (Moretti)
New member Username: Moretti Post Number: 30 Registered: 11-2001 |
Dave, Owning a Ferrari is like falling in love, you don't care what the faults are as this is an emotional experience (how else could you explain the sale of English sports car - only joking, sort of). A Ferrari is a mistress (old saying but very true) and you take her out for fun not chores, if that's what you want get a MB or BMW or Ford or GM or one of the other mundane, boring cars for this purpose. People using a Ferrari as a daily driver and say they are still excited everytime they use it are lying, human nature turns the experience into just another boring chore, if some people are genuinely excited everytime they drive the daily Ferrari trek are indeed lucky and exceptional people (wished I was that easily pleased), but to take the Ferrari out for fun and to re-instil some spirit to the soul, this is what Ferraris are for so if you place quality control higher than sheer enjoyment go get AN Other but the 550s and 360s I've seen are beautifully made (every bit as good as my new BMer). Oh, and one more thing, my 28yo GT4 still goes round the track at >8,000 rpm on the original engine.g,box, etc and then tootles off home at a steady 35mph, try that with any other standard 30yo car and see how it handles that sort of treatment. The engines great but the quality in my poor old car is in need of an update to the carpets and leather piping. | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 478 Registered: 2-2002 |
Solly: I see I was wrong. Congratulations on the silver at Cavallino, BTW! | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
Member Username: Solly Post Number: 405 Registered: 6-2001 |
Dino restoration was body/paint, no engine work. Other than new gaskets motor is original, and compression is perfect. | ||
| Fred (Iluv4res)
Junior Member Username: Iluv4res Post Number: 153 Registered: 8-2002 |
This is an iteresting chain. It's amazing how much F-car owners are willing to put up with (and even defend). On the other hand, when you buy one it's no surprise that it's expected. Realistically, if a Honda/Toyota, which IMO are both about the most reliable cars available, had such 'issues', I would never buy one. Funny how the F-car escapes all 'rational' thought.....all emotional. Like a beautiful woman. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2927 Registered: 5-2001 |
Dave, there is about 10,000 360 on the road today. Heck there are two owners right here in my building. When you see these car nutz that change and mod their cars they take all the bad stuff from the manufacturer and make it better, more chrome, more this more that. A Harley bare is a ugly bike, it becomes beautiful when somebody puts another $20K into it and customizes. Except Modman there are not too many F-car owners that like to do that beacuse it actually deminishes the value of the car. Nicks 308 is surely the best built and heaviest modified around the US. His car I am sure is super reliable. Paul S. is modding his 308 to have the best racing tranny and ignition and all of the other good stuff he is putting in there. Yes, he is putting five digit $$$s in his car and will not see them ever again if he sells the car today. But it is his customizing. The cars you see customized were bad in the first place and were made better by the owners of these machines. If you think thats the way you want to go buy that 348 and mod it. Modman can give you some great tips. His car looks awesome! BTW cracked heads you can find with ANY manufacturer. Happens purely more often when you rev at 8000RPMs than at 2000RPMs, the naure of the beast! | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 361 Registered: 8-2001 |
To make sure no one misunderstands, I am not trying to put down Ferraris or any particular model, but to express some concerns I have and maybe learn. Where this question comes from: I am currently in Scottsdale AZ. Every weekend they have an evening car gathering here. I have been told it is the oldest and largest. Anyway I would guess they probably have about 200 vehicles. Last weekend, I was there and I admired the quality of some of the custom or heavily modified motorcycles, cars, and trucks. Also last weekend, one of the TV stations had specials on motorcycles. Caught parts of it while getting ready to go out. One of the things that stood out was the apparent quality of many of the custom built bikes. Then I read comments like this: Welcome to the world of Ferrari, I haven't had that problem but I have had my display go out twice, overheat ( I live in SoCal by the water) various times, battery died ( bought car new now have 13000 miles so it doesn't sit around) , weekly leaks just like my 355, cracked header ( dealer would not make a simple weld till parts came in, it sat for 3 weeks) and these are some of the ones I remember. Glad this crap is covered under warranty for now. Car will be sold before the warranty expires . Surprised that someone else had paint problems. So I think it is a valid question of why Ferrari cannot maintain quality at least as equal as the vehicles I saw at the auto meet last weekend or on TV? The 348 is one of my favorite cars. However, in my readings, the first mention I have found of quality control problems at Ferrari is with the earlier 348s. Even the CEO of Ferrari admits they had problems. From the number of postings on 360 problems, it appears that quality control problems continue (there are not that many 360s out there). Like choosing a mate, in buying a Ferrari one wants to know the strong points and the weak points, the advantages and disadvantages (nothing is perfect). In making major decisions, I try to be like a ratchet wrench. I want to maximize the pleasure while minimizing the downside if things go wrong. One way to do this is to ask questions even if the questions make some uncomfortable. One can love a woman while still knowing the downsides and minimizing the bad effects. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2925 Registered: 5-2001 |
Don't know what he was referring to with his issues on the 348. I have none. More so I am very very happy with the car. As for the 360s they do not have more problems than any other new model. The top has had problems on the Spider because it is such a complicated piece with many electric motors. Had problems with the SLK top as well. Lights were a problem because Ferrari went with new technology. I guess they should stick to the old bulbs, like Toyota until all the other manufacturers sorted out the problems for them. ..but then with that attitude you can not be innovative and surely can not win GP races. Trying for the next better thing is what makes a car manufacturer good, but sometimes that is not as reliable as the old proven thing. | ||
| Jeffrey Robbins (Teachdna)
Junior Member Username: Teachdna Post Number: 70 Registered: 9-2001 |
You know, it�s like almost anything else: it takes experience and time to work the bugs out of a complicated piece of machinery subject to a variety of stresses in radically different climates. I�m not surprised about quality issues or bugs in Ferrari�s: they�re still largely boutique machines built in low numbers by a relatively small company. I�m not making excuses for them �I�m still not happy about a water pump on my 550 failing after 4500 miles while, on all my other cars they�ll last for 30,000-100,000, but I do understand the variance inherent in small production runs. I don�t expect a Ferrari to ever be as bullet proof as a mass-produced car and going into ownership with that expectation is almost guaranteed to result in a disappointing experience. I also have a policy of NEVER buying a car in its first model year. Even the majors, which test a new vehicle�s components over 100�s of thousands of miles, run into unexpected glitches. I understand why people want to be the first on their block, but it isn�t my cup of tea. Dave, I think if you�re �lucky� enough to get one of the first of the new models, there will be all sorts of issues that need to be resolved with the vehicle, hopefully none serious but probably annoying-it�s just the way things work (or don�t). | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Junior Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 250 Registered: 2-2001 |
Dave, FWIW I'm aware of a 360 (non F1) and 550 that have had zero build quality related issues. Also know of a Honda S2000 that lost a motor (to the tune of $10k) and a recent M5 that's on its fourth Vanos, 2nd tranny, and 22nd quart of oil in 19k miles (still original brakes/clutch lest one might surmise car has been thrashed). Would imagine (just a guess) that pretty much all makes/models of cars are "better built" than their predecessors. That said, no guarantees of a trouble-free ride regardless of manufacturer, and so buy the car you like best, I guess. Or the one with the best warranty, maybe? | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 700 Registered: 2-2001 |
Dave, I have your solution. Don't buy a Ferrari. Get a Z06 Corvette and enjoy your "reliability" and "quality." Ernesto | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 360 Registered: 8-2001 |
I have been considering buying a 360 and have a $5,000 deposit down on the 360 Spider Replacement. Therefore current build quality is a matter of concern to me especially reading all the problems that ferrarichat members have had with the 360. Just see the current threads and look at the large number of threads about problems in the past. Will I have similar problems with the replacement? I still love the 348, but things like the following make me look close and ask questions like this tread. Of course, he was talking about the earlier 348s. Ferrari CEO Montezemolo, "I had just bought a new 348 with my own money, and, with the exception of its good looks, I was utterly disappointed. This was clearly the worst product Ferrari had developed for some time." Reading things like this cause me to ask questions and hopefully learn. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2924 Registered: 5-2001 |
the leaky roof is a protective measurement intentinally built into Ferraris to prevent owners from driving them in the rain. right Enzo? | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 360 Registered: 3-2002 |
well dave, tell us what build quality issues you have with your ferrari (s), and let's see if anybody else experienced them, or they are just one-offs. | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 359 Registered: 8-2001 |
My Austin Healey 3000 MK III received the best preventative maintenance. The only time the roof leaked was when I left the top down and an unforecast thunderstorm came up or I drove the car in snow storms with the top down. This is also a very old design. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2922 Registered: 5-2001 |
...again, I can not see any poor built quality in any of my cars. Maybe somebody could point some things out? I think this is more of a myth than really fact and most people just repeat some rumors that have been put out by some car magazine for whatever their motive was. My car is still better, stronger, more reliable and better finished than any of todays built MBs. Look at the leather on the F-cars and the MBs. What a friggn difference. ...maybe I am bias! | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 358 Registered: 8-2001 |
I love the design of the 348. However, for an example of my concern for quality control on the 348 see Forza, June 2001, pages 32 through 40. However, the article goes on to state that they did correct many of the issues. Is that one of the reasons why Ferraris sales fell 50 % in 1993? From reading and talking to others, it appears that the quality control issues are back with the 360. | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 357 Registered: 8-2001 |
Montezemolo might have wipped everyone into shape, but they have dropped the ball again. It does not take rocket since to see that. I have bought hand build things that were better than machine built, but these were not cars. Ferrari has the design. But the question is why cannot Ferrari maintain quality at least equal to custom motorcycle builders or muscle car restorers/builders, many of which are on shoe string budgets. Ferrari has some of the world's best engineers and virtually unlimited capital. This is suppose to be a passion with them. From what I have been told and read, Ferrari did have good quality control until around the 348. Years ago everyone thought Maserati could never go down the tubes. But they did and became third rate players due to things like this. It would be a tradegy if something similar happened to Ferrari. | ||
| Robert (Rjklein4470)
Junior Member Username: Rjklein4470 Post Number: 178 Registered: 3-2002 |
I have a 360, and I think the fit and finish is very nice, yes there are some defects in the paint, and some other areas. I did not buy a Ferrari to have a perfect car. I bought a Ferrari, because I feel like I have a piece of history. And the car is as sexy as my wife, and puts out when I ask her too. Ok I am going to get sht for that last comment, but it is funny. | ||
| Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member Username: Wsawyer Post Number: 475 Registered: 2-2002 |
Good point, Solly, although I recall that you put a lot of money into a restoration on the Dino, didn't you? It seems unfair to compare a restored car to the average clunker. | ||
| Dave Penhale (Dapper)
Junior Member Username: Dapper Post Number: 224 Registered: 4-2002 |
I've just spoken with the second owner of my last car, a MB SLK230. I had the car from new and picked it up from the factory in Bremen, Germany. To cut a long story short the current owner has just had a windscreen crack, they took the A pillar covers off to replace the windscreen (apparently they are easy to clip off) and found worse than surface rust at the base of the pillars!!! I know MB have a lifetime body warranty but I wouldn't expect to be calling on it with a car thats only just turned 3 yrs old! and it can't be due to excessive washing or rain as I hardly ever used the car, certainly not in the rain or on wet roads and consequently I only ever had to wash it about 4 or 5 times in my ownership. By comparison my 348 is now 11 yrs old and holding up extremely well. Its general fit n finish is every bit as good as it was on that SLK, perhaps not quite as good as the BMW 3 series coupe I had before it though. | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
Member Username: Solly Post Number: 403 Registered: 6-2001 |
I have had only 1 minor problem with the 360 spider and it was fixed in 1 day. The top was malfunctioning. I track the car and find it extremely well made. No squeaks,rattles or any other problems. I also have a Dino reaching its' 30th birthday and it runs great, I have performed only oil changes, tune ups and carb adjustments. How many other 30 year old cars are on the road? | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1426 Registered: 2-2001 |
this reminds me of a joke: In heaven the Italians are the artists, the French are bakers, the British are cops, the Germans are mechanics & engineers In Hell the Italians are the mechanics and engineers, the French run the trains, the British are bakers, & the germans are the cops | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1425 Registered: 2-2001 |
Ferrari is built by Italians not Americans, Germans, or Japanese. Being a latin myself I can tell you that they have serious problems grasping concepts like efficiency, electronics, & mechanical perfection; although as far as art & design are concerned NOBODY tops the Italians | ||
| Najib Amanullah (Najib)
Junior Member Username: Najib Post Number: 200 Registered: 4-2001 |
Personally, I cannot see the poor quality. OK they dont like very hot sun +45c (gremlins in the electrics appear) or too much rain (TS roofs leak) but niether do most cars. All British convertibles leak like sieves, as do some Porsches. The leather interiors are better quality and certainly more beautiful than most cars without exception. What about the light and indicator stalks on a Porsche? They look cheaper than most mass produced cars. I am considering buying an MB S320/350 but have been putting it off since I heard that most owners complained of niggling problems almost from day one. They range from bits falling off to total power failure. This from a company that has endless resources and research to improve build quality and reliability. If you say that a problem with a Ferrari will be more expensive to fix and therefore, hurts more...I will have to agree. But thats the price of EXCLUSIVITY. | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 353 Registered: 3-2002 |
i think their build quality has improved immmensely between the 80's and 90's. my 348 was not built that well, but the 512tr, built about 6mths later, is great. i think of it as bm and am; before montezemolo and after montezemolo. he saw the light and whipped everybody into shape when he got there in 92 and it shows. now whether its built as solidly as a mercedes is a different story; it isn't and never will be, but i do think they are striving to get close given the competition in the market place for their high-edn wares these days. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 2910 Registered: 5-2001 |
I can not see why the Ferrari and especially the 348 should have poor built-quality. My car is built just fine. All the others I have seen are built fine. What the *+#% hell is everybody talking about? I see it more that people want to look for faults with Ferrari. Just wait for the day that the next F1 car blows an engine. The papers will be full with questions of the reliability and "is that the end of an era". My wifes MB is built like •••• and nobody complains but me. Her previous SLK was built worse and both cars are poorly designed. 50% of all 430CLK lose the front spoiler piece. Just look at them driving. A mere $450 plastic piece that MB can not get to stick on the car with a screw or a better clip. THAT is poor quality to me and I would fire that plant engineer. | ||
| yellownsx (Gomaidy)
New member Username: Gomaidy Post Number: 9 Registered: 7-2001 |
Honda/Acura NSX revolutionized the exotic car world in 1991 and forced Ferrari to get its acts together with quality control issues, since then the F355 and 360 Modena has been improving. Just because a car is hand built does not mean it has quality problems, NSX are hand built and the motor is assembled by one master engine builder, but its quality/reliability is better than the Civic and Accord siblings. However a Ferrari has the "Soul" thing, its part of owning such a special car, right? :D | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Junior Member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 192 Registered: 3-2002 |
Any car that costs $50-$300k should be well built... | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 291 Registered: 7-2001 |
In the end, it all comes down to company philosophy, regardless of how the cars are made or where they are made. Honda and Toyotas will always be well built because the company feels that it is important. | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Junior Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 126 Registered: 5-2002 |
Hand built by itself means niether high or low quality. It does mean the production volume is too low to justify automation. The more steps you need to trust a person to follow, the harder and more expensive quality assurance becomes. Also, the higher the performance of a design, the more sensitve it becomes to things like part and assemble tolerances. Race cars are built by hand by the best mechanics using the best parts and are maintained perfectly, but they still break down. The closer a street car comes to being a race car, the more difficult it becomes to make it function propperly all the time. Personally I thing Ferrari does a pretty good job of walking the line. You need to understand what you're buying when you bring it home and realize that it will require more attention than an average car because it is not average, it's a Ferrari. JMO | ||
| Mitchell Le (Yelcab1)
Member Username: Yelcab1 Post Number: 418 Registered: 11-2001 |
I don't believe that hand-built is an indicator of better quality. Have you seen the welding seams left by a robot on a mass-produced japanese car? It is absolutely perfect. My opinion is when a vehicle is handbuilt, it is often of shoddy quality and workmanship. | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 354 Registered: 8-2001 |
Generally when one thinks of hand build, one thinks of pride of workmanship and better quality than mass production. However, in Ferraris, this appears to be opposite. For example, many think that the 348 was an outstanding design. Then the quality control was bad at the factory and not up to traditional Ferrari standards. This comes from several magazines (including Forza) and conversations with experts. From reading reviews in Forza, the mechanical design of the 360 was great. However, from the threads on this chat, it is obvious that the quality control on the 360 is not what it should be. Have noticed that some magazines have also noticed qualtiy control issues. Why can't Ferrari solve these quality control issues? Why is the plant manager not fired? Most places the plant mangager would be long gone for such continuing quality issues. Are quality control issues likely to be a continuing problem on future cars? |