| Author | Message | ||
| John Whelan (Fodee)
New member Username: Fodee Post Number: 10 Registered: 10-2001 |
Safety Devices has a dealer in the US. Call Stable Energies at (973)773-3177. The product is called the unlimited brake balance control. It is an adapter bracket that allows dual master cylinders to be mounted to a vacuum brake booster. It will accept and brand of master cylinders and comes with a remote adjuster cable. Really trick, and works great on an F40 with an electric vacuum pump to run the booster. The price is $349.00. Should be a simple hook-up. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1462 Registered: 2-2001 |
Eric, Chris called me & we spoke about the double master cylinder he is using on his F40 now, Can you help me out with a better master cylinder for my 512TR ? Thanks, William | ||
| Eric Dahl (Brembo)
New member Username: Brembo Post Number: 31 Registered: 8-2002 |
Okay fellas, Drilling rotors was originally done to lighten and ventillate racing rotors in the sixties and seventies. Manufacturers have adopted this drilling pattern as it did have some function and gave the race look to the rotors. Porsche was the primary manufacturer to do this. Drilling can, if done incorrectly, and if heat cycles are too rapid or extreme, crack. Street cars will almost never have this problem. Which is why manufacturers are confident to sell drilled rotors (as long as they are done to Brembo standards) Brembo long ago perfected the proper pattern spacing and chamfering to avoid cracking problems. So we still sell drilled discs, and yes, it is mostly for aesthetic reasons. modern racing discs are slotted for several reasons; the slot acts as a wiper for the pad face and leaves a fresh pad surface with rotation. It can ventilate any debris away from the pad as well. The slot does not run out to edges so that it does not leave a potential stress riser on disc corners. With modern pad materials, the more disc mass you have to absorb heat, the better your performance. The modern Brembo racing disc has specially designed internal vanes which act as a cetrifugal pump and vent air more evenly than a drilled disc could. (a drilled disc creates turbulent and uncontrolled internal airflow)A drilled disc can be slightly lighter, but there is also a cost in disc surface and mass. Modern pad materials no longer need to be ventilated like they did 20 years ago. Modern high performance pads can also withstand and operate effectively at higher temperatures, so keeping heat in the disc is a good thing. A drilled disc in a racing situation with a modern racing pad will cool too quickly and then absorb extreme heat before a corner, and cool again too quickly, this extreme cycling will definetly cause a drilled disc to crack. For any extra high performance or racing systems that we sell, we recommend a slotted disc. For the 512, we have a 355mm (14") front disc with an F50 spec caliper as shown previously. The two piece slotted disc is several pounds lighter than the OE 1 piece disc. I am glad to hear that the system is performing as well as we expect it to. Soo drilled discs still look cool, but if you want to look like you really drive hard, get some slots. And if you really want to drive hard, get a Brembo system. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1460 Registered: 2-2001 |
Mike Ferrari also made the F50 a convertible which is ridiculous for a GT1 car then they wouldnt let anybody race them against Porsche, McLaren, & MB, also ridiculous. Ferrari has never really been on the cutting edge of auto technology. The F40 used basically the same frame as a 1950s racer, The F50 had a CF tub, but about 2 decades after F1 used them so that wasnt really groundbreaking | ||
| John Whelan (Fodee)
New member Username: Fodee Post Number: 9 Registered: 10-2001 |
To find Safety Devices on the WEB, do a search for Safety Devices Roll Cages. They are located in the UK. I have a brochure at home that I will try to find. | ||
| Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
Member Username: Benjet Post Number: 812 Registered: 1-2001 |
Brembo recommends against (most) drilling, for a street car, they do it because they are asked to. There is/was an engineer at Brembo who was quite vocal about this... 355 Challenge cars were supplied with CD rotors, which supposedly cracked routinely, until they were replaced with non-CD rotors, problem disappeared, similiar with then 360 challenge cars. Others would know more about this than I. Offical word at the dealers regarding the option of drilled rotors on most cars, is it's all appearance just like painted calipers, at least that's what I've been told. Anyone want to explain the other benefits (non-appearance) of a painted caliper? http://server.ferrarichat.com/~ferrari/ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/112/38007.html FWIW, -Ben PS. Carbon (non-metal) rotors are a different ballgame entirely... | ||
| Mike Charness (Mcharness)
Junior Member Username: Mcharness Post Number: 79 Registered: 8-2002 |
John, I wouldn't worry too much about drilled versus slotted rotors. FERRARI put Brembo crossed drilled rotors on the F50, so what does THAT say?!? http://www.ferrari.com/cgi-bin/fworld.dll/ferrariworld/scripts/gt/car_data.jsp?car_type=GT&CAR_ID=F50 Ferrari also puts cross-drilled rotors on all 360's and 575's, and had them on 550's also. Check pictures at www.ferrariusa.com Check out suspension pics of the 360 at http://www.ferrariusa.com/360Modena/img/Suspension02_480.JPG What about the new ENZO? It has carbon rotor discs, but they're drilled also! See pictures at the left bottom of the page at http://www.roadandtrack.com/features/bts/PrintArticle.asp?ArticleID=293 I don't imagine Ferrari is using "old technology" on their latest cars. It ain't just for looks! I'm going to put Brembo cross-drilled rotors on my QV. Evosport.com has them for around $200 per wheel for my car. Having stock rotors drilled is probably "dangerous". Buying Brembo rotors designed that way is a different matter. Here's what Brembo.com's website says about drilled rotors. From the Brembo.com website FAQ: "The main advantages of drilled and slotted discs are the same: increased brake "bite", and a continuous refreshing of the brake pad surface. Drilled discs have the additional advantage of being lighter and running cooler. However, there are certain pad materials that should not be used with a drilled disc. The number of holes in a cross-drilled disc is part of the engineered system. Brembo has done extensive testing with regards to the number of holes, their size, their location and their chamfering. This attention to detail is what truly sets Brembo apart in the world of braking. The same attention to detail that is delivered to the Ferrari Formula One effort is a component of the high performance program. The number of holes in a disc is in part a function of the size of the disc and the internal venting (if it is a vented disc)." | ||
| Randy (Schatten)
Member Username: Schatten Post Number: 401 Registered: 4-2001 |
one tech q - regarding the slotting - some slots go all the way to the edge, but the real stuff doesn't, it ends right before the edge. I have Wilwoods on my car at the moment and they do not go all the way to the edge. Why do the better ones ending right before the edge of the rotor? Just looking for a technical explaination of this. | ||
| Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
Member Username: Benjet Post Number: 811 Registered: 1-2001 |
Here is some rotor mod info: http://www.teamscr.com/rotors.htm agree with things at your own risk..altho I think WilliamH went the right way no doubt. -Ben | ||
| John Delvac (Johndelvac)
Junior Member Username: Johndelvac Post Number: 102 Registered: 11-2001 |
Thanks guys. I would have made the mistake of drilling them. I was thinking about putting them on my 328.  | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1450 Registered: 2-2001 |
John W, do you have a website for safety devices ? John D, cross drilling is old tech, comes from the 60s. Depending on who you speak to the holes have 2 well 3 purposes. 1) Cosmetic 2)they were used to evacuate the gas built up from the brake pad glue that tended to melt & 3) to squeeze water from between the rotor & pad in the rain. Downside is the holes plug up with race pad smeg & they detract from the surface area, meaning you have less rotor so your brakes r that much weaker. The slashes on my rotors allow the gas to escape but they also maximize the rotor surface The seperate rotor & hat is for racing so you can just swap out the rotor & leave the same hat (the black center part) on the hub | ||
| Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Junior Member Username: Mitch_alsup Post Number: 169 Registered: 4-2002 |
Drilled holes (whether actually drilled or cast into the rotor) are a point of stress risers. A large heat inducing event--say like stoping from max velocity--can impart massive stress around these holes. In addition, the holes will cool at a more rapid rate than the surrounding material--thereby you have setup a situation where the rotor is likely to suffer from cracks eminating from around the holes. Slots, on the other hand, do not have the stress riser phenomenom, and still allow the hot gas a means of escape from the surface between the pad and the rotor (the reason holes were drilled int he first place). | ||
| John Delvac (Johndelvac)
Junior Member Username: Johndelvac Post Number: 100 Registered: 11-2001 |
Educate me. Is there a reason the new rotors are not drilled? BTW - THEY ARE FREKIN' HUGE! | ||
| John Whelan (Fodee)
New member Username: Fodee Post Number: 8 Registered: 10-2001 |
Safety Devices in England makes a twin master set-up that bolts onto a factory brake booster. Complete with balance bar assembly. Really trick! | ||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
New member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 47 Registered: 3-2002 |
Es binders grande !!! No problemas ( alto ) Muy bien Enjoy Ralph | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1443 Registered: 2-2001 |
14" free floating rotor, 4 piston calipers & they weigh less than stock also. I think the kit was around $6,000 front & rear. These brakes are so powerful they can tear the rubber right off the tire if you lock them up!!!! I spoke with Chris last night, seems I should upgrade the master cylinder as well & use a double but cus the 512TR uses a servo system its a bit more difficult to do than on an F40. | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 279 Registered: 10-2001 |
Drooling ! What is the size of the disc in mm ?? | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Junior Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 81 Registered: 6-2002 |
What size rotors? They look absolutely stunning! Best! Ben | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Junior Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 244 Registered: 1-2002 |
William, Nice setup; 2 piece rotor, aluminum hats?, and 4/6 six pot calipers? Did you do a master cylinder and prop valve upgrade as well? | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 741 Registered: 2-2001 |
Come on! Let's see the beer boobs! Ernesto | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 830 Registered: 7-2001 |
You guys are lucky, in my file right above the picture "Brembo" was a picture titled "beer boobs". Good thing I clicked correctly. | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 829 Registered: 7-2001 |
installed  | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 828 Registered: 7-2001 |
 | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 827 Registered: 7-2001 |
Well, hell. Stand by... | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 826 Registered: 7-2001 |
 | ||
| Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member Username: Cmparrf40 Post Number: 426 Registered: 3-2002 |
William, I need to talk to you. email me your telephone number [email protected] | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 823 Registered: 7-2001 |
Email me one William, I'll post it. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1442 Registered: 2-2001 |
Ahhhh!!!!!! SOB, What am I doing wrong? Help!!! I'll try another pic & see if that 1 works  | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 963 Registered: 4-2002 |
ernesto how can you see it, i cant even pu;; it out? | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 739 Registered: 2-2001 |
looks great! cant believe the difference! Ernesto | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1441 Registered: 2-2001 |
Bloody HLL gonna try once again | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1440 Registered: 2-2001 |
OK lets try again, this pic is supposed to show the Brembo rotor on the right & the stock Octave 512TR rotor on the left | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1439 Registered: 2-2001 |
Ok, I finally got the pics on line lets see if I can get them posted, Test #1 |