| Author |
Message |
TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 1555
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 11:42 am: | |
thats Jeff - you sound like you are on the right track to having a successful business- best of luck |
Jeff Swearingen (Gazill)
New member
Username: Gazill
Post Number: 4
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 8:39 am: | |
A couple of quick notes-
* I don't have the car yet, so I can't say it's been successful until one of my customers buys the car and has a great experience with it.
* For the conversion, I paid twice what some other people have quoted because of G&K's reputation and the fact that they only use real Ferrari parts. I'm not sure that using a reflector from Pep Boys really would make a huge difference, but on such an expensive car, I'm not taking any chances.
I don't mind sharing the cost of my incoming German 360 Spider. My customers buy from me because they know I'm 100% honest and they don't mind that I make a fair profit from selling them a car. There's probably another entire thread in this, but I've watched countless transactions where the customer is lying to the dealer and vice-versa, it's really a shame people can't just work within the truth. Why is that?
Anyway... here are the approximate costs with delivery of a 320 mile German Spider:
*The car itself: $135,000 (includes currency conversion costs)
*Travel $2,000
*Cost of money during process (8% x $150,000 for 4 months) = $4,000
*Shipping cost to US (I flew mine to LAX, you can put it on a boat for less, but you're exposed to time and more elements) $5,000
*Import duties (3.5% of cost of car) $4,000
*Conversion (I used the best, G&K, you can spend $10K or less, but be careful) $16,500
*Enclosed shipping to me from L.A. $1,000
*Total Approximate Cost = $167,500
This is the do-it-yourself price, dealer friends of mine pay 180-185 for already converted Euro Spiders. There's less time and risk (and potential profit) involved in buying an already converted one. I wanted to do it myself on this one so I could understand and explain everything to my customers.
Before this number sends a bunch of bargain seekers on planes to Europe, I should say that I would have NEVER done this without a very experienced broker / importer holding my hand every step of the way. I didn't include any cost from him in the equation because he did it for me for free since he owed me a favor.
Thanks to Martin for sending me his actual Euro experience in e-mail. For all of the talk about how Euro cars are "just like US cars" or absolutely the worst thing since the plague, I was expecting some more responses! If you'd like to share your actual experience, my e-mail is [email protected].
I'm still waiting for someone to tell me that a dealer refused to service their car since it was a Euro. I know you're out there...
Thanks.
-Jeff
PS You can see a photo of my incoming German Spider (I call it the Red Baron) at www.gazill.com/redbaron.htm |
TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 1551
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 2:37 pm: | |
since he is selling the car he might be hesitant to share that - understandably so |
Jeff (Jeff_m)
New member
Username: Jeff_m
Post Number: 11
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 2:14 pm: | |
Jeff,
After all is said and done, what do you estimate your final cost will be not including your personal time and travel to Europe? Just curious what the actual savings are. |
Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member
Username: Miami348ts
Post Number: 3026
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 11:31 am: | |
Jeff,
great to see you had a pleasant experience. I think this is great to hear and also great for those that think about buying a Euro car, no matter 360 or 355.
Your topic has brought us new pictures on a factual conversion and some additional insight from somebody that actually did it. Thanks!
proves we never beat a dead horse with an old topic.
|
J Claxton (Clax)
New member
Username: Clax
Post Number: 4
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 10:45 am: | |
Frank, I'm pretty much in agreement with you about the prices. For the prices that are being asked for a US (or even a Euro for that matter) 360, I'd almost rather buy a Murcielago for MSRP. At least you're not paying an artificial premium for the car. I'm still undecided what to do about a 360, but I think I'm going to wait. I see a lot of 360's sitting at dealers now with pricetags that are lowering. The demand/supply curve has definitely seen it's peak, and things are probably going to change in the next 6 months. Cars that I inquired about 2 months ago are still for sale, and the sellers are contacting me personally asking me to make them my best offer. Sounds like the crazy demand is not what it once was. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 1442
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 10:27 am: | |
A euro car is as good as a U.S. car. The only thing you lose is the warranty. You can buy an aftermarket warranty from several companies that advertise in the Ferrari Market Letter. The only real problem you have to watch out for is to be sure that whoever does the U.S. conversion does a good job using OEM parts. I have seen converted 360s which had BMW side marker lights instead of OEM ones. While the BMW lamps are just as good or better than the OEM ones, they do look a little different. If I wanted a 360, and I don't, I would not hesitate to buy a euro model, which is still priced way more than the little dino is worth IMHO. |
Robert (Rjklein4470)
Junior Member
Username: Rjklein4470
Post Number: 186
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 11:22 am: | |
Jeff,
I am not sure coments like " Dont buy a Euro " are necessary. The bottom line the cars are so close to the same it is comical. And most of the parts for the car are made in the US. Alcoa makes the aluminum frame and some of the body panels, most of the wireing harness is made by Delphi, and this is the reason the FNA lost there petition.
I know that this topic is old, but it is still unproven that the cars are that much different. Bottom line is that Ferrari does not make enough cars to specialize thier manufactuing lines for each country.
I have a Euro 360, and it is one of the best 360's around. I have ridden in some others, US cars that have been plagued with problems. I am not sure it matters much which country it was manufactured for but rather when it was built in relation to the introduction.
I bought my 360 with 300 miles on it for mid 130's, and the savings is worth it because I have not spent a dime in the car.
just my 2cents |
Jeff Swearingen (Gazill)
New member
Username: Gazill
Post Number: 2
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 4:10 pm: | |
Hello again-
I�ve had several requests for information and photos, so I�ve uploaded them to my website for anyone and everyone to see. They�re accessible at www.gazill.com click on resources and then the Euro info link. Please forgive the primitive website, I just put it up this weekend.
I�m interested in hearing real stories from people who have actually experienced what�s involved in owning a converted Ferrari. I had some work done on a European 355 at a Ferrari dealer and it was not an issue in the least. I understand that some dealers won�t work on them, but I�ve never heard a story about someone getting shown the door when they went in for an oil change or to pay for a repair out of pocket. I�m not on either side of the debate, I�m just seeking empirical evidence so I can be a better seller of all types of Ferraris.
Sorry if this has been an over-posted topic, I'm not really interested either in debating the philosophy of free markets or Ferrari NA's rights.
My gut instinct tells me that a European car is perfectly acceptable for some buyers (price sensitive, can�t wait or high mile drivers) and a poor choice for others (money-no-object buyers, those that truly can�t get service locally & collectors).
Please send your personal experience to me at [email protected].
Also, since a couple of people have requested it, here are some of the costs associated with buying and importing a Ferrari from Europe:
� Travel to and from to locate / purchase
� Car purchase itself
� Wire transfer / currency conversion fees (Fidelity charged me over $1,000 for this)
� Local shipping to airport or seaport
� Transportation across the Atlantic (about $5,000 to fly, $1,000 to float)
� Import duties (3.5% of vehicle price)
� Customs broker fees
� Conversion fees
� Shipping from conversion shop to your driveway
� Time value of your $ during the process
I had some serious help to learn my way through this process, and would recommend that anyone else interested in importing do the same.
I hope this information is useful to all of you and would be happy to assist anyone on an individual basis.
-Jeff |
Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member
Username: Miami348ts
Post Number: 3006
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 10:59 am: | |
Jeff,
it would be nice to hear your story in detail. Why don't you post someting when you have been through with how long it took, some pictures of the parts exchanged etc. I think that will make a great extension to this topic.
Clax,
with the membership growing rapidly you have not seen that topic. We will all see lots of topics re-appear on F-chat in the next months. Don't feel bad. I think it has not been discussed lately, since the import ban has been lifted. Good to see this re-appear for additional knowledge. |
Jeff Swearingen (Gazill)
New member
Username: Gazill
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 4:13 pm: | |
Hello Clax.
I'm new to the group also and am in the process of importing a 360 Spider that I purchased in Germany. I even visited it during the conversion process (at G&K in California) and have some before and after photographs of the components that are modified to meet EPA & DOT requirements. My e-mail is [email protected] if anyone has any questions about the process or would like to request some photographs. This is the first Euro I've purchased so I'm not an expert, but I'm happy to share what I've learned.
-Jeff |
TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 1464
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, October 04, 2002 - 2:24 pm: | |
clax
don't feel bad about bringing up an old topic - we were just trying to answer your question as fast a possible - thus directing you to the search function. Welcome to the site and good luck |
J Claxton (Clax)
New member
Username: Clax
Post Number: 2
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 04, 2002 - 2:15 pm: | |
Thanks for the feedback thus far. I did do a search, and read some interesting threads on this subject. I am still sitting on the fence about the Euro import. I really want to own one, but I will not pay over MSRP. The US versions are still hovering in the $250K range, and there is no way I'll pay anything close to that.
Sorry I brought up what appears to be an old topic on this board. I'm glad I came here, however, because you seem quite knowledgeable. |
martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
Member
Username: Mw360
Post Number: 590
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 10:55 pm: | |
Clax,
I E mailed you with my phone #.
Martin |
J.D. Smythe (Jeff)
Junior Member
Username: Jeff
Post Number: 59
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 5:45 pm: | |
Oh no, here we go again with this topic. Clax, I say this with a smile on my face because I know what emails are about to follow. You see Clax, this question has been asked before by 30 other Claxes. Of course you don't know this or shouldn't know this because this is your first post. Please look in the SEARCH area. It's at the bottom of this screen. You will get a lot of good detailed information on your questions. If you just want to get to the bottom line. The majority would answer, DON'T BUY A EURO.
You will find this site to be very helpful. People love to share their knowledge here. It's just that on this question it's been beaten to death already. |
TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 1461
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 5:40 pm: | |
search the archives as we have had extensive discussions on this board - Martin on this board imported a 360 a few years back. search 360 DOT or 360 conversion |
Al Johnson (Bigal)
Junior Member
Username: Bigal
Post Number: 76
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 5:36 pm: | |
There's a guy in our local F. club who is in the process. His car in in Conn. now being converted. I can try to get his ph# for you. |
J Claxton (Clax)
New member
Username: Clax
Post Number: 1
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 03, 2002 - 4:56 pm: | |
Does anyone have any experience in importing a 360 from Europe? I have done some research, and have obtained some general information, but would like to know if anyone on this board has already done this. If so, who should I deal with? I have heard G&K is pretty good for importing & conversion. Any idea of good European sources for cars? I hope to be able to go to Europe in November and have 4 or 5 cars lined up for inspection prior to purchase. Also, what type of costs can I expect for shipping, escrow, import, conversion, etc. Any info that you can provide me would be greatly appreciated. |