| Author | Message | ||
| Aaron Williams (Aawil)
New member Username: Aawil Post Number: 7 Registered: 8-2002 |
BTW Terry I love that blue...it looks well taken care of.. | ||
| Aaron Williams (Aawil)
New member Username: Aawil Post Number: 6 Registered: 8-2002 |
Terry I agree porsche's fit and finish is very good at least on the newer cars I can't comment as much on the older but I assume it was comparable. I did also notice the lack of on some of the 308's I've seen. Reliablity probably goes to porsche as well. They are well engineered they seem to lack soul though. I didn't mean to upset any porsche owners hell I only have a vette myself but I'm only 24 so I have time.It's taken me 5 years to remotely warm to the looks of the boxster but I do like the carrera GT.It's ironic that ferrari's race cars are more reliable than there street cars. It could be worse I could be riding around in a riced up Civic..... | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 304 Registered: 7-2001 |
Well said Terry. Gone are the days of the 911 Turbo 3.6 which scared the magazine testers because of its raw power and insane brakes. Now it's all about cup holders, navigation systems, fancy leather options. | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 288 Registered: 4-2002 |
Aaron Williams... I love Ferraris (own a 308) and Porsche (911S). You are mistaken if you think that racing heritage and experience has made Ferrari street cars better engineered than Porsche street cars. Having worked on both... I can tell you that Porsche engineering is simply much more thorough and excellent. (Im not talking about the current crop of new cars, Porsche builds them cheap these days). My hands on experience is with pre-1990 models. Compare the build quality and engineering of a 3.2 Carrera with a 308QV or 328 and I believe you will find the 911 to be much better built, far more reliable, just as fast or faster and much cheaper to maintain. That said, I would totally agree that the Ferrari is a much better looking car! Keep this in mind: Racing does not necessarily improve the breed. These 2 companies went racing for totally different reasons. Porsche went racing in order to develop engineering excellence and ultimatly help them build the best street sportscars on the road while building their brand. Ferrari sold street cars simply as a means to raise capital to go racing. If Ferrari could have raced without selling street cars, he probably would have. Ferrari was "sell on friday to race on sunday". Porsche was the more traditional "race on sunday to sell on monday". To me, the past several years have seen a sad straying from what made Porsche great. They are no longer building the best engineered sportscars on the road and they no longer attempt to prove it on the racetrack. Now they build SUV's for soccer moms and 996's for stockbrokers. If you ever want a P-car... do yourself a favor and bet an aircooled 911. Try a '69 to '73 911S... they are amazing cars. Remember in the early 70's the 2.4 liter 911S whipped up pretty bad on the Daytona in production sportscar racing despite having just over 1/2 the horsepower... | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 287 Registered: 4-2002 |
Porsche is the most profitable car company on the planet. Sounds nuts... but on a net profit basis its true. Money is not the issue... its simply the sole focus of the company today. Racing is gone unless its the for profit sale of customer racecars. Building SUV's for soccer moms is in. Pimping the name and history for $$$ in any way possible is their objective. Im a huge 911 fan going way back, but the "Porsche" company of today is not even a remnant of the company made great by the Porsche and Piech families. The pepper box SUV makes me sick. I also dont like the new 996, the engine is crap. All of the air cooled 911's, the engine was bullitproof. Abuse the crap out of, they come back for more. The 996 engine is junk, no Porsche factory raceing effort has used it, they use a GT1 derived engine instead because the 996 engine cant hack it. I love my '69 911S, its a fantastic reminder of the company that won LeMans 17 times and was the greatest sportscar racing company on the planet. Shame the new Porsche company has totally forgotten what made it great. | ||
| Dave (Parts_man_soda)
New member Username: Parts_man_soda Post Number: 21 Registered: 8-2002 |
Check it out... www.cayennedebut.com | ||
| Joseph (Mojo)
New member Username: Mojo Post Number: 33 Registered: 9-2002 |
When you pay $180,000 for a 400hp ferrari, A $88,000 450hp suv by porsche doesn't seem to bad to me. just my opinion. | ||
| Ryanab (Ryanab)
Junior Member Username: Ryanab Post Number: 118 Registered: 3-2002 |
That's about $51, 450 too expensive. | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Junior Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 217 Registered: 8-2002 |
What is $88K in Canadain funny money? $53k US? | ||
| Ryanab (Ryanab)
Junior Member Username: Ryanab Post Number: 117 Registered: 3-2002 |
"The Boxster was clearly a first step in providing a Porsche for everyone. Cayenne is another step in that direction." At $88, 000, I think it will only be in the hands of a few fortunate people. I also love the fact that the wheelbase is too short pull anything, absolutly hilarious.. What a joke. Ryan | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Junior Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 215 Registered: 8-2002 |
I was reading the new Car and Driver....Porsche is going to build a truck for the US market. sad time ahead. | ||
| Mark Freeman (Mrpc12)
Junior Member Username: Mrpc12 Post Number: 70 Registered: 11-2001 |
I think it's an awesome machine and I can't wait to test drive one. Shure beats a Cadillac Escalade. | ||
| Michael N. (Man90tr)
Member Username: Man90tr Post Number: 681 Registered: 4-2001 |
Stephen, it was a 245 hp model. It had the extra little flares, the racing seats etc.. The 220hp models look a lot plainer. I like those older models -- they look like porsches ought to look. For that car the 328 would be a better match. Michael | ||
| stephen r chong (Ethans_dad)
Junior Member Username: Ethans_dad Post Number: 84 Registered: 3-2002 |
Michael: Dead on regarding the 3.2 Carrera's sweet spot. I think he was pretty optimistic trying to run with you as he couldn't be working with much more than around 220-245hp. As a P-car owner too, I can assure you that most of the real enthusiasts have been turned off by the company years ago when they needed to capture market share. Cup holders were the last straw for me. This SUV is no surprise to me. | ||
| tommy jones (360mode)
New member Username: 360mode Post Number: 21 Registered: 9-2002 |
honest observation - look carefully at the cayenne and compare the lines to a hyundai santa fe - no joke, very very similar... maybe porsche is stealing designs from hyundai?????  just glad to hear that most f-car owners wouldn't tolerate a ferrari minivan!!!! | ||
| Joseph (Mojo)
New member Username: Mojo Post Number: 32 Registered: 9-2002 |
Hey Scott That is a great web site!! www.wreckedexotics.com | ||
| Joseph (Mojo)
New member Username: Mojo Post Number: 31 Registered: 9-2002 |
Sorry Paul I always thought they were like little gocarts, but you have to admit they did get a bad rap. They were considered Porsche's mistake. Oh well it's all good! Mojo | ||
| Paul (Pcelenta)
Junior Member Username: Pcelenta Post Number: 174 Registered: 7-2002 |
mojo, is that a dig at the ol' 914? I kinda miss my old 2.0 litre. | ||
| Scott Wistar (Pzerowaster)
New member Username: Pzerowaster Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2002 |
I knew Porche wash sh*tting the bed when they put a slush box in the twin turbo. But a Porche sport ute? When a friend of mine told me about that I thought he was pulling my chain. But as the saying goes, there is an ass for every seat, and I'm sure there are plenty of posers out there clicking their $150.000 twin turbo into "D" to cruise down the pike. And another thing... a 450 HP topsy turvy grocery hauler? I wonder how long it will be before they start appearing on www.wreckedexotics.com? | ||
| Joseph (Mojo)
New member Username: Mojo Post Number: 30 Registered: 9-2002 |
Remember people this is the same company that made the 914. So this suv wont hurt them. Might help them. For you porsche lovers that would be a great way to tow your 911rsr to the track.Now that would be cool! | ||
| Erich Walz (Deleteall)
Junior Member Username: Deleteall Post Number: 135 Registered: 12-2001 |
Heard the rumor they're going to produce a pick-em-up truck? | ||
| Michael N. (Man90tr)
Member Username: Man90tr Post Number: 680 Registered: 4-2001 |
For you regular porsche haters, you would be happy to know at my TR just ate up a 1987 911. It wasn't a turbo model, it was the one just below that. I was on the way home and we happen to take the same exit that leads onto a nice 1 mile stretch of empty road. He was right behind me on my right side, in my blind spot. He started to speed up and I was in 4th in the TR going 80 already. He really started coming along side hard, but when the TR hit 4750 we just pulled away when all the "jets" came on. The game was over at 110 -- he was in my rear view and the TR was pulling away. Seems that the non-turbo porsche is best bewtween 60 - 100 and then after that the TR is much stronger above 100. Is that about right? | ||
| Rikky Alessi (Ralessi)
New member Username: Ralessi Post Number: 24 Registered: 5-2002 |
Well, if you look at it one way, it would be kind of neat to have the same brand of track car and tow vehicle... heck, you could even take the tow vehicle onto the track and run some hot laps. I do think it is a bad idea, though. | ||
| Aaron Williams (Aawil)
New member Username: Aawil Post Number: 4 Registered: 8-2002 |
I've never been a fan of porsche's rather ugly cars and now trucks. I think long term they'll end up killing the brand like jaguar is doing with that $30,000 car. Porsche's will never be what a ferrari is. The lure of a ferrari other that looks has to be that all there cars come from the racing experience. Perhaps in a few years I will own my own ferrari. | ||
| Paul (Pcelenta)
Junior Member Username: Pcelenta Post Number: 172 Registered: 7-2002 |
Ferrari is not only jack'in every one on parts prices...the new management is also working on mass marketing the brand...you guys all heard of the plans...boutique stores, a casino,going public... both enzo & dr. porsche must be rolling in their graves...face it guys, the old days are over..decisions are now made by a bunch of talking heads and pencil pushing Execs... | ||
| Joseph (Mojo)
New member Username: Mojo Post Number: 29 Registered: 9-2002 |
If I had the money to waste, I would buy one, Put Kia emblems on it and have some fun. whooo whaaa  | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 298 Registered: 7-2001 |
ACW is right. Porsche is trying to generate income the more traditional way by diversification, whereas Ferrari chooses to generate income with prohibitive pricing on their parts. You guys in the new ferraris better watch out for soccer moms with a coffee in one hand, cell phone in the other trying to pass you in the fast lane with their turbo 4x4's. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1472 Registered: 2-2001 |
Soccer Mom + 400hp tall vehicle = Flip, crunch, lawsuit WHy couldn't Porsche make up some stupid name like so many Cos have with Acura, Infiniti,Lexus etc & sell thier nonsportscar Crappp through there. Thats what Maserati is all about for Ferrari. I feel sorry for Ferdinand | ||
| acw (Acw)
Junior Member Username: Acw Post Number: 119 Registered: 2-2002 |
$1K per axle was the quote I got from Ferrari Of Los Gatos for my 360 Modena. ACW | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 749 Registered: 2-2001 |
acw, what ferrari uses $1K per axle brake pads? I certainly know my 360 doesnt! Ernesto | ||
| Joseph (Mojo)
New member Username: Mojo Post Number: 26 Registered: 9-2002 |
The looks are all opinions, the true of the matter is how many will they sell? I was completly shocked at how much HP. 350hp in the standared model and 450 in the turbo, WOW!!!! Maybe we are all a little threatened by that. could you imagine at the stop light or on the freeway being beat by a soccer mom in a wagon with her kids in the back? More embarrassing ferrari stories. oh well its all good!! | ||
| acw (Acw)
Junior Member Username: Acw Post Number: 118 Registered: 2-2002 |
I don't like the Cayenne but I'm really not into trucks and SUVs... I don't understand why people are annoyed by Porsche producing a new model. The Boxster was clearly a first step in providing a Porsche for everyone. Cayenne is another step in that direction. Porsche is a business and needs to make a profit. Selling only 911 wasn't enough. If the Cayenne means they can stay in business and keep producing interesting cars (996 Turbo, GT2, GT3, Carrera GT), so be it. Ferrari only produces sport cars, however, let's face it, they overcharge for everything. Sometimes part prices are so high that it makes me feel like I'm getting screwed by a big scam. (eg: break pad $1K / Axle - Clutch $5K - etc...) I would personally prefer to see Ferrari or Maserati build a few cars for everyone, lower prices and allow more car enthusiasts like us to buy and maintain amazing cars. ACW | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Junior Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 52 Registered: 8-2002 |
Great, now we will have more mad soccer moms to challenge us and need to blow off thru the next light | ||
| Paul (Pcelenta)
Junior Member Username: Pcelenta Post Number: 171 Registered: 7-2002 |
while I think it is one of the ugliest things on the road...4 wheel drive is part of the porsche heritage....Her Doctor designed the ugly asss kubblewagon of wwII vintage and how about the 959/ralley versions...The technology is there...However, I think the target market is the Soccer Mom crowd which is a waste. | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Junior Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 212 Registered: 8-2002 |
Porsche is becoming the Ford/GM of Germany. Now they are bringing back the 928. They have the 2 seaters convertables(boxster), the fast sportscar (911) and now the Mini Van (Cayenne). They are trying to be everything to everyone now. Very sad. What next, a special BMW version of a Porsche truck similar to the HD ford? | ||
| Brian Saligman (Brisalig)
New member Username: Brisalig Post Number: 11 Registered: 8-2002 |
The cayenne---WOW. I really dont know what to say about it. I do love porsches...but I dont know about an SUV. Whats next...the ferrari station wagon. In spanish Carrera means "race". I guess this car appeals to the split personality mother...soccer mom by day, street racer by night. | ||
| Matt Karson (Squidracing)
Junior Member Username: Squidracing Post Number: 180 Registered: 3-2001 |
First of all, it is not an SUV....it is a LARGE STATION WAGON. Secondly, it is BUTT F*CKING UGLY!!!!! Third, since you can't tow with it, as the wheel base is far too short, is it really important that this vehicle is so powerful and fast?? Fourth, $88,000???? | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Junior Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 51 Registered: 8-2002 |
As a former Porsche 911 owner , when I heard about the SUV it said me "sell out", they have always made sportscars even a few crappy VW hybrids but never a truck, so they prostitute their name and stop there racing program to finance it, Porsche has a bunch of bottom line counting greedy suits running it now, not the vision Ferry had Ferrari has always remained true to its vision and image and I respect them for that | ||
| Michael N. (Man90tr)
Member Username: Man90tr Post Number: 679 Registered: 4-2001 |
What's your point, William?? | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1468 Registered: 2-2001 |
Not only is it an SUV, its the ugliest thing since the Asstech. See the Asss on the Cayene ? Its friggin Huge. Nasty Good thing Ferrari now has Maserati from which to launch nasty things & not subvert the Ferrari legend | ||
| tommy jones (360mode)
New member Username: 360mode Post Number: 18 Registered: 9-2002 |
do any of you all frequent the boxster board? i've got an S that i drive everyday and it amazes me how so many posters on that site don't care or think its great that porsche is making an SUV!!! i understand it's a business but part of the charm/appeal/mystique of porsche is its racing history! by venturing into any profitable market, then doesn't that conflict with the underlying purpose of porsche? why not make mini-vans? pick-up trucks? (although they do race semi-trucks now so...) i'm guessing that people on this board would have a cow if ferrari made an SUV (and i don't care that lamborghini made an suv, lambo is not ferrari). BUT, maybe i'm wrong... (i've been wrong before!!!) no flame - just that as a past owner of many 993's, 996's and 986's, i just find it weird to think of porsche making an SUV! curious what f-car owners thoughts are... |