| Author |
Message |
John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
Member
Username: Jjstecher
Post Number: 320
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 7:35 pm: | |
Lou I faced the same decision as I have stated before I stuck with the dual disk set up because it holds the torque much better at higher RPMs and has a better feel in my own humble opinion. The fact of the matter is that the next time you have to do your clutch, especially if you drive it like you should, should be 20000 miles off. Which in Ferrari time is about 10 years for the most of us. I think save the 2-3K now invest it while the stock market sucks ass and hell maybe in 10 years you fight be buying the F70!! In all seriousness I would recommend going with the dual plate and resurface/repack of the flywheel. Also if you have the time I suggest watching the mechanic change the clutch just so you can get a feel of what it is like to work on one of these babies. Who knows it might inspire you to try the next one yourself!
John |
Gene Agatep (Gagatep)
New member
Username: Gagatep
Post Number: 32
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 5:15 pm: | |
billy,
1. do you have a source
where can i get the dual clutch
modified to kevlar faces?
2. just in case my flywheel need reface,
do you have a source for brass refacing?
bearing rebuilt...spherics, i know about...
they're closeby to me
i'm about to do my own clutch job. |
Randy (Schatten)
Member
Username: Schatten
Post Number: 407
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 4:04 pm: | |
someone want to chime in and tell me why the flywheel costs so much? I'm paying that much to develop a flywheel for my car and it includes purchasing 10 pieces once I'm satisfied with the product! |
bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Intermediate Member
Username: Bws88tr
Post Number: 1014
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 4:00 pm: | |
lou
go dual disks also, if back to single your balance will be off
bruce |
Noelrp (Noelrp)
Junior Member
Username: Noelrp
Post Number: 83
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 3:55 pm: | |
I recommend that you stay with your current set up(dual disks) and keep the $2k for something else, for a tubi or a set of 18" wheels perhaps.
Good luck! |
Lou Papaleo (Papaleo1)
New member
Username: Papaleo1
Post Number: 23
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 10:54 am: | |
OK, Guys, this is the bottom line. After several hours of research this morning, including speaking with a couple of you guys here and Wil at Exoticars ( thanks - all you guys are the best!)- this is how it plays out.
The dual-disk job can be done using my flywheel.
The parts are the most expensive part of the job as we have all seen in my previous post. If we repack and resurface the flywheel, the total job will be $ 5k. The independents seem to agree that there isn't going to be much I can save from there.
The changeover to a single disk set-up is what requires a new flywheel, as well as the assorted hardware and parts. The upside of the conversion is that the next clutch-job will be $ 2500 instead of $ 5k. SO. . . the question of the day is do I spend $ 2k more now to save $ 2500 on the next clutch job, or do I say the heck with it and save the $ 2k now?
Forget me doing it myself, I do not have the knowledge, the tools, or the brass testicles to try it!
So, I guess I spend another sleepness night!
Thanks to everyone for now. You guys have made this somewhat more bearable! I will keep you posted. |
Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member
Username: Timn88
Post Number: 1465
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 10:38 am: | |
If you are a tax accountant, you must know a way to write off the repairs, or are there not many loopholes left? |
Ron Thomas (Ronsupercar)
Member
Username: Ronsupercar
Post Number: 347
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 9:59 am: | |
Lou,
I like Johns idea of doing it your self to save alittle. IF your labor charge is $575,it's not worth it..let them do it..
I also like the idea of changing old parts to performance parts.. Might be worth the difference in HP and better drive..
|
magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 3225
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 8:44 am: | |
Billy is correct. If you are a gutsy DIY you can hunt around and do it for much less. The other end of the situation is when you are at the mercy of shops like this,"Bend Over." There are other places out there such as the one Bruce mentions, if you are not a DIY, and they get a legitamate price for the job but it ain't a "Rape" like you are getting. I still would like to hear how much this guy wants for inspection tear down if you decide to take it out of his shop. Be sure you get all your parts. |
ELI (Titanium360)
Junior Member
Username: Titanium360
Post Number: 198
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 7:59 am: | |
Lou,
Call Vinny at Auto Elite in Fort Lee N.J just next to the GWB. His work is great and is extremely reasonable. The ferrari of Long Island takes him on the challenge races and used to work for the wide world of cars. e-mail me if you need any help. He did a major on my TR few years ago for only $3500 all inclusive using oem parts. |
Dr. George Petito (Doc18015)
Junior Member
Username: Doc18015
Post Number: 56
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 7:45 am: | |
Frugal , Billy Bob.......Your an intelligent guy! The Ferrari board needs more creative thinking like yours. Thanks for being here. |
billy bob (Fatbillybob)
Junior Member
Username: Fatbillybob
Post Number: 59
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 7:32 am: | |
Wanna be cheap? Her is how you do it. Personally I like the dual setup.
Reface dual clutch discs to kevlar $? Regular face $30.disc
Modified T/O Bearing 1300.00 keep old system can have bearing rebuilt from place like sphrics an areospace rebuilder $60.00
Flywheel 3200.00 reface with brass face $150.00
Ring (Seals ? - illegible) 500.00
Hardware 225.00 NONE NEEDED!
Flywheel Bearings (2) 170.00 get the nuber off bearing and buy from bearing house at perhaps $60.00 per unit.
Exhaust Seals (4) 100.00 Not needed but if you change them they are 2-5 bucks at autozone
Labor 575.00 I can do this in 2 hours 4 if I regrease the flywheel and I am not a mechanic! at 100/hr labor this is still to high.
Misc 412.20 What the hell is this?
Even if you go all OEM parts this is too high. If you go cheapo you will never know the difference. If you go kevlar faces you will be very happy.
|
Michael N. (Man90tr)
Member
Username: Man90tr
Post Number: 693
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 7:21 am: | |
The Modified t/o bearing is way off in my opinion. I paid think $200 bucks for mine for the TR. Call around about that one for sure. BTW, when you say your flywhell is destroyed what does that mean? Did you see it? I had my TR one machined to new specs for unde $100.00 -- be careful -- why go to single plate if you can machine the double plate for 100 bucks. It might not be the dealers policy to machine older plates so a couple scratches and they say its destroyed. You should see it for yourself. |
Lou Papaleo (Papaleo1)
New member
Username: Papaleo1
Post Number: 22
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 6:55 am: | |
Thanks for the all the help guys. I just got the written estimate:
Replace Clutch w/Single Plate - $ 800.00
Modified T/O Bearing 1300.00
Flywheel 3200.00
Ring (Seals ? - illegible) 500.00
Hardware 225.00
Flywheel Bearings (2) 170.00
Exhaust Seals (4) 100.00
Labor 575.00
Misc 412.20
Total $ 7,282.20
Any thoughts besides trying to get away with the
flywheel? Does that make sense?
I'm a tax accountant, what the HELL do I know
about this stuff ??
Thanks for the all the input. |
John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
Member
Username: Jjstecher
Post Number: 319
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 12:28 am: | |
If you think you have it bad this is the cost equation of my 348 so far in the year since I have purchased it. $3.12 per mile driven! And yes I have totalled up a whopping 3142 miles since I bought her. But you know what there is nothing that makes me happier than driving here so in my mind it is all money well spent! :0) Keep your head up man there are always worse things that could happen then your clutch going out....like your differential possibly breaking! :0) |
John J Stecher (Jjstecher)
Member
Username: Jjstecher
Post Number: 318
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 10, 2002 - 12:24 am: | |
Lou,
Man take it from me I just changed my clutch out a while back here and I also have a dual plate kit. I got my clutch (looking at the reciept right now) from GT-Carparts for $2800. The actual job of removing the clutch assembly and what not is very simple, only about a 2-4 hour job depending on how mechanical you are and what not. I did it myself at my mechanics shop and it took around 3 hours. This was a complete disassembly of the housing removal of the clutch and flywheel, along with installation of the new clutch. My flywheel wasnt quite in "horrible" shape, but was not the greatest so I went and had it turned at a competent machine shop. This cost me a whole $40!! A hell of a lot better than buying a $3000 flywheel!! I would suggest at least attempting to have it turned before writting the check for 3k to get the new one. Anyway Lou like I said the mechanics and rest of the crew are feeding you a lot of Sh*t in my opinion by quoting you $7K for the job. Anyway if you want anymore help feel free to ask. I am in the process of hopefully just replacing a rear axle and hub, but possibly the whole tranny depending on what I blew apart, so I have lots of free time to talk! :o( I wish you the best my friend! |
BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member
Username: Bretm
Post Number: 2728
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 10:58 pm: | |
Screw stock, you can get some nasty clutch/flywheel packages made up for a 308 for around $3K. This is a heavy duty multi plate system probably 150% the strength of stock, if not more. That said, there can obviously be 348 systems made up. Try Nick Scianna and see what he has to say www.nicksforzaferrari.com or try Classic Coach 1(908) 352 3939. I know they made up a lightweight clutch/flywheel package for an ex-LeMans NART 512, I think they sent over to Italy to have it done and I'm not sure of what the price was. Check those two out though before you spend $7K for stock stuff. If you wanted to keep it all stock I would think that either of them could help you with that also. |
magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 3224
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 10:33 pm: | |
Since they have torn into it to check it out, Lookout he will probably have a hell of a bill for you. |
Chris A. (Asianbond)
Junior Member
Username: Asianbond
Post Number: 68
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 9:46 pm: | |
One more point, the 348 is one of the easiest ferraris to change a clutch, you basically put the car on a lift, drop the exhaust and the transmission is right there sticking out from the back of the engine, shouldn't take more than 4 hours labor. |
Chris A. (Asianbond)
Junior Member
Username: Asianbond
Post Number: 67
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 9:41 pm: | |
Lou, I just changed my setup to single disc from double-disc, these were my costs:
Single disc clutch-$700
Throw out bearing-$500
Single disc flywheel-$3,000
If you stick with the double disc set-up, the clutch kit should cost about $1,800, not sure on cost of throw-out bearing, maybe the same one.
You can try machining your existing flywheel. If you want the dealer to warrant the job you should expect to pay a little extra than independent mechanics.
I may have a used double-disc flywheel for sale if you're interested, need to check with my mechanic.
Regarding driving differences between single or dual clutch set-up, I did not notice any, in fact, the clutch uptake is silky smooth.
|
Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 636
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 9:03 pm: | |
I am not staisfied with Miller.Both price and quality. |
Lou Papaleo (Papaleo1)
New member
Username: Papaleo1
Post Number: 21
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 9:01 pm: | |
I am going to stop in at the dealership in the
morning to get the estimate breakdown. . . and put a hold on the job.
Wil at Exoticars just emailed me that he would check into the parts and get to me tomorrow.
You guys are helping me out of this Blue Funk -
Thanks! I was already wondering what bank I was going to rob to pay that damn bill !!
I'll post more as soon as I get the information. |
Michael N. (Man90tr)
Member
Username: Man90tr
Post Number: 692
Registered: 4-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 8:49 pm: | |
Way too much!! I had an independent (who I no longer use) charge me $5,000 for a bad TR clutch job. Even if it was good, it is still 1K to high. I had it fixed properly and then went back to him for my money. Took 9 months, but I got satisfaction. The point is it should cost no more than 4.5K for a great one. A dealer is always 25 - 30% higher, but watch the independents closely as they could try to stiff you also. Took me three mechanics to find the one I really like and trust. |
Ernesto (T88power)
Member
Username: T88power
Post Number: 778
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 8:26 pm: | |
Lou, can you post a detailed breakdown of the estimate (ie, how much for each part, as well as the required hours of labor and hourly rate)? Thanks.
Ernesto |
Lou Papaleo (Papaleo1)
New member
Username: Papaleo1
Post Number: 20
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 8:23 pm: | |
Miller in CT. They quoted me $ 5200 w/o the flywheel, but they couldn't warranty the job without it because it is ruined. $ 7200 with the flywheel -that is to change the double-disk to single-disk.
To keep the double disk - $ 8200!!
I tried to contact a couple of the independents that were recommended here last week, with no success. I will contact Exoticars right away. Thanks for the heads-up. |
bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Intermediate Member
Username: Bws88tr
Post Number: 1005
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 7:09 pm: | |
you live in ny?? who is your mechanic?/ miller in ct or wwoc in spring valley?? my guy is a sponser here on f-chat, exoticars in nj, hes reasonable and knows hes ••••..7k wayyyyyyyyyy toooooo muchhhhhhhhhh
regards,
bruce |
Stanley DiGuiseppi (Standig)
Junior Member
Username: Standig
Post Number: 69
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 7:05 pm: | |
Who gave you a quote of 7k? I live in CT and have 348ts and that sounds unreasonable. |
Ernesto (T88power)
Member
Username: T88power
Post Number: 775
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 6:41 pm: | |
$7k for a clutch? I think you'd better get a second opinion...
Ernesto |
BobD (Bobd)
Member
Username: Bobd
Post Number: 678
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 6:31 pm: | |
If the clutch pedal engages high, it is broke and it needs attention IMO. If the $7K was quoted by a dealer, I suggest you find a GOOD independant and cut the bill in half. BTW, I can appreciate your frustration... ouch! |
Lou Papaleo (Papaleo1)
New member
Username: Papaleo1
Post Number: 19
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 09, 2002 - 6:27 pm: | |
It finally happened. . . my fears have been realized. The "high" clutch pedal which everyone said "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" just broke!! Damn.
They took it apart and the dual-disk plates were down to the rivets and the flywheel was totalled. This is going to be a $ 7k job !!!
As I said, I am depressed. I can't believe that it was changed by an independent at 11500 miles -
a year before I bought the car - and it started
slipping at 15k miles. Damn.
I'm going to convert it to a single disk and change the flywheel. I just hope that this is the last of it. God, I love that car, but I'm starting to wonder if I just should've kept the Corvette.
Damn, I'm depressed !
|