| Author |
Message |
Vincent (Vincentf355)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 21, 2001 - 5:24 am: | |
On the Ferrari in Fast and Furious being a 348...It was a a 355 just had clear euro turn signals. I have the same upgrade on mine |
BretM (Bretm)
| | Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2001 - 4:50 pm: | |
That 2001 Diablo 6.0VT is a sick car. It actually make me like Lambo enough to get one if I had that type of dough, but not as much as I love Ferrari. |
billy zissis (89tr)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 07, 2001 - 11:30 pm: | |
Actually William I was out also fueling both the TR and the 355 when 2 highway patrol cars stopped and came over and asked us if we knew the guy in the Diablo, but I am always hearing about it. Was at a car show in Long Island and everyone kept asking us about it. Someone even showed us some pictures of the accident. The most familiar comment though is ,"Does your license plates say LOV2XL8 (love to accelerate)? |
BretM (Bretm)
| | Posted on Friday, July 06, 2001 - 5:17 pm: | |
Crashing cool cars is a shame. |
Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
| | Posted on Friday, July 06, 2001 - 12:06 pm: | |
William-
daily...
no further comment necessary.
-Ben |
William H (Countachxx)
| | Posted on Friday, July 06, 2001 - 10:43 am: | |
Had an SUV driver at the gas station bring up the LI crash to the attendant while I was pumping gas into the 512TR. Any1 else heard similair comments yet ? |
Sam NYCFERRARIS (Sam)
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 03, 2001 - 10:56 am: | |
Sorry Bill, you are right, hey, in the Volvo driver's expereicne, Lambo certainly named that car correctly, DIABLO |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 11:55 am: | |
And lets not forget to lower the drinking age ....
this is going to resolve most of these bench drinking deaths in High School.
I remember that my parents made it optional for me to have a coke or beer on the dinner table at age 12. My choice. No big deal. So you had a glass of beer. If you take the unknown away you just don't have the desire to do it anyway. As a parent I rather have my kids drink an occasional beer with me than at a fret party.
I guess that made my parents criminals and me a pure alcoholic....
...wait, really neither of that is the case. |
Randy (Schatten)
| | Posted on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 11:03 am: | |
Martin, its actually screwed up more than that over here in the US. For instance, just recently the supreme court found it unconstitutional that drivers license tests are only in english! WTF? all the street signs and directions are in english, well then of course, we have south west houston, one particular area has english AND korean!
If the US were to raise its limits on the driving age to 18, then I'm sure there would be many many high school fathers & mothers that couldn't work to support their kids. (ha!) But seriously, it wouldn't require such a large place to go to school, the parking lots would be much smaller, thus no need for security, etc etc. But who would be upset at this? Car sales persons, insurance companies, and I'm sure the local law enforcement agencies trying to get their monthly revenue from tickets. But it works over in Europe by making such a high cost for drivers licenses and saftey skills classes/tests - which is something we wouldn't dare thinking of doing over here - I'm sure that would need to be in many different languages as well, right? ...things are pretty spread out in the US, and its not exactly easy to get from one place to another in Texas without a car, thus its pretty much required to get anywhere. Back in high school, it was a rather long commute, 45min-1hour, going through a prison farm from upper middle class suburbia, not something you can walk to, not something you can take a bus or train to - but you had to drive quite a ways.
I agree, the fees should be higher, the min. age should be higher, and even more so, I can't get those images out of my head. Thanks for not linking them here. |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Friday, June 29, 2001 - 8:39 am: | |
Anatomy lesson????
I could not see the body....I was sickened by the looks of the car. I guess that will be a salvage title...or better two, one for the front, one for the back.
280Km is about 180Mph
In Europe that is not that bad. I have seen accidents in Germany that were similar. The problem is that when you have people that do not know how to drive get into the left lanes at 55Mph and a car is coming behind them at 180Mph.
With the little driving knowledge of US drivers this country would see 1 Million deaths in the first year if the speed limit got lifted.
Somebody should step up to the plate and change the laws so you have to have certain driving experience before you are issued a drivers license. It is ridiculous that you are "fit to drive" at 16 by driving some DMV guy around the corner, make a stop at a light and park the car head-in.
The driving schools are as bad.I see them teaching people how to blow a stop sign, speed and drive reckless. These driving instructors are idiots themselves.
Think about this:
Your government tells you you are fit to drive at 16. Driving potentially can kill in a second (see the Vette and the Diablo)
Your government accepts that you are knowledgeable enough to make political decisions and gives you the right to vote at 18.
But you are certainly not fit to have a beer until 21!
In Germany we have 40 hours of mandatory driving instructions with a teacher. 20 hours of mandatory theory and a very strickt state test, both theory and driving one hour with your teacher and the state certificator. The driver license cost is about $2000 not $10. If you did not pass you will have to go back to class and driving instructions and try the next month not the next day.
My point is...if you have better instructed drivers you have safer roads. |
BretM (Bretm)
| | Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 9:14 pm: | |
It's like an anatomy lesson. |
Randy (Schatten)
| | Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 7:32 pm: | |
yup, seen the pictures and to be honest with you, I really wish I hadn't. I've seen some pretty horrific pictures before, but this is far from that.
if you are inclined to see it, I cannot even dare to make it easy for you and post a link, but if you go to www.s2000online.com and in the forums - off-topic, there is a thread called:
Do Not Street Race!!! (Links to nasty pics) ****GRAPHIC****
you can find it there. and no, not trying to get ppl to go over to the site that I work on at all, but the pics are just too distusting to make it an easy click for the persons on here that want to be disgusted and/or shocked. |
Bob Pommer (1fstmf)
| | Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 6:36 pm: | |
Has any one seen the pictures of the 355 Spyder owner who crashed and was thrown from the car and was cut in half by the gard rail. Apparently they pictures are floating around and are pretty horrific? |
William H (Countachxx)
| | Posted on Thursday, June 28, 2001 - 7:20 am: | |
Sam, it was a Diablo, Not a Countach
Lens, SUVs want to race your Ferrari? WTH r they thinking/smoking ?
Bob, do u transport cars cross country ? A few friends of mine & I want to transport our cars from the E coast to LA next May for the FCA Nat'l meet. Do u transport cars cross country ?
Ferrarichat discount ?  |
Chris_N_Chicago (Chris_N_Chicago)
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2001 - 10:42 pm: | |
Bret,
Email me off line. It is really disgusting, someone posted a 355 crash with the bodies...
I haven't seen that much carnage since the mosh pit at a Limp Bizkit concert! |
BretM (Bretm)
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2001 - 6:05 pm: | |
Hey Chris, what is this worldzone net thing? |
Peter M. Kamarchik (Pmkamarchik)
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2001 - 3:25 pm: | |
I think the best response to people revving their engines at you was a couple of postings ago - someone mentioned that people only do that because they're jealous of what you've got, as a Ferrari owner. |
Leonardo Soccolich (Lens)
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2001 - 7:50 am: | |
If you want to race, do it on the track! That�s where our cars perform best. I live in northern New Jersey, and can�t imagine why anyone would want to risk tearing up their car on the horrible roads in the tri-state area. At that speed, you just can�t react fast enough to avoid sewer covers, potholes, mufflers, etc. Not to mention the possibility of hurting or killing innocent, unaware bystanders.
We all like to open our cars up a little when we have the chance, but you do have to pick your moments. It never ceases to amaze me how many times lunatics in SUVs come right along side and want to race! The fact is, my 328 may have been state of the art fifteen years ago, but cars today have a lot more horsepower. The last thing I need is to be tempted by a teenage punk in a tricked-out Honda with a ridiculous sounding exhaust and more decals than the Illustrated Man. After the money and time spent finding the car of my dreams, and the additional money and time to get it the way I want, I just can�t justify putting all that at risk for a few minutes of cheap thrills.
Everytime I stop at a light, the kids in my neighborhood say, �great car!� That�s enough satisfaction for me. |
David Albright (Dalbright)
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2001 - 7:37 am: | |
They had a pretty good ferrari chase scene in the movie "The Rock" with Nicholas Cage. Not a bad scene or movie for that matter. |
bob behner (Ferrari4bob)
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 27, 2001 - 3:24 am: | |
Billy it's a shame you don't like american steel.Ive owned a lot of them and In my eyes HEMI"S rule.I live here in HOLLYWEIRD thats were almost ever thing is fake.I own a transporting service I mainly move exotics you name we probably move I've have seen a lot of weird things especially on movie sets. there's two movies In which I like one is NO MANS LAND which stars Charlie Sheen,who steals porches It' a pretty good one.And my favorite is THE HIDDEN in which the 15 mins. is great it has a great Ferrari chase scene they used five 308's to this movie.the rest of it well whatever.But as far as I know this the best ferrai chase I've sheen |
David Albright (Dalbright)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2001 - 9:39 pm: | |
do these pictures actually show the dead people or is it just the cars all torn up? |
billy zissis (89tr)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2001 - 9:36 pm: | |
Listen I am sure we all put the pedal to the metal at one time or another in our cars. I mean that is what they are all about. But we use good judgement. We do not cross over the yellow lines to pass someone from on coming traffic. The guy with the diablo was a moron. Sure they'll blame the movies,TV, and radio because someone has to be the culprit. It's just a shame. |
Frederick Thomas (Fred)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2001 - 9:23 pm: | |
I would like to chime in on this. We all bought these cars and you have to admitt that we like speed and there is a time and a place for it. That is what these cars are made for. Yes I have raced people more them a few times but only when the situation is right. On a clear open road. I never race when there is alot of cars around. I don't go swerving thru traffic and I never speed thru a neighborhood. What an ass I would be to kill someones dog because I want to have a little fun. Not to even mention a child!! These two were idiots plain and simple. If the road is clear and someone wants to run I am with him. If there is a crowd around forget it. Just my 2 cents. |
Chris_N_Chicago (Chris_N_Chicago)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2001 - 9:01 pm: | |
Out of respect to Rob ( and his site ) , I didn't post the Ferrari massacre story from Worldzone.net
What the heck happened there ? What a mess!?
I wish my Spider had a roll bar now... |
Tenney (Tenney)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2001 - 8:49 pm: | |
This isn't the first movie to glamorize street racing (American Graffiti, Two Lane Blacktop, Bullitt, even Cannonball Run I, II ... whatever). Nor is this the first time the press has made a big deal of street racing incidents such as the one with the Lambo. This stuff will pass. But street racing won't. The smart guys will race in remote locales where there's no potential for injury to 'innocent' parties. The knuckleheads won't. Darwin will intervene. There will be another movie. And the cycle will continue. Truly a shame about the family in the Volvo.
BTW - I also have pics of the 355 vs. Fiesta. Very rugged stuff. |
BretM (Bretm)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2001 - 8:30 pm: | |
Yeah seriously, what were they thinking? Apparently this stretch is known for racing, but it's so obvious. I never race cause I don't want to die quite yet or even worse wreck the Ferrari, but if I did I would think that some place a little less populated might be a better choice. The biggest reason I don't race is that I know that most cars out there will beat my 308, but as long as we don't tell them that they'll never know. |
Danny R. West (Dan_West348ts)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2001 - 7:12 pm: | |
This is a perfect example why high performance sports cars do not belong in the hands of children. The insurance companies agree by telling young drivers, people under 35, that if you have these cars then it is going to cost you plenty.
Those of us that are older, know better than to drag race on crowded city streets. We take it to the country.&#;
Dan |
BretM (Bretm)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2001 - 6:51 pm: | |
This post is all about typical Bret comments, so brace yourself.
If I had to go out in a car crash though I would want it to be in or with a Diablo(or a Ferrari of course). It's such a cool car.
I just love it how the media is gonna blow this out of proportion and further lobby for the insurance companies to tighten their reigns on us. There is a good article in C&D this month about those bastard insurance tycoons and their oppression of motorists. I mean two people died here and they're making it out to be such a big deal with that movie and all. It's sad and I would never want to be in the situation of those families, but there are 6 billion people in the world, what makes me really upset is that they only make a couple hundred diablos a year and this was a brand new 2001. I think if I ever get a 12 cylinder car it's gonna be a lambo, I gotta start saving my pennies though. That guy was only 30 and he had one. |
Sam NYCFERRARIS (Sam)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2001 - 4:34 pm: | |
I remember watching cannonball run and it was a fun movie it didn't make me go out and speed like a crazyman...although my Triumph Spitfire 1500 could only muster about 70 mph with a tail wind, anything over 80mph and the huge front "bonnet" would work loose and fly open and become a huge airbrake to slow me down as well as fend off oncoming Volvo's....does anyone see any irony in a crash (tragic as it is) between a Volvo and a Countach...who would ever imagine these two cars would meet like this and the sad thing is the Volvo driver probably bought it for safety. The way that Lambo pancaked..I bet it was a euro. |
Tim N (Timn88)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2001 - 4:29 pm: | |
All i have to say is that the movie fast and furious was a horrible movie! I saw it last night and it was terrible. Like billy said, if that was a 10sec car then the ferrari did pretty well. It also wasnt a very realistic movie. They made the cars look fast in the race scenes by the way it was filmed. |
Sam NYCFERRARIS (Sam)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2001 - 12:19 pm: | |
I tell you those Countach guys are just crazy ! Or maybe the cars just make them that way..Lambolunitics, I say, ruining it for all of us in the slow and friendly Ferrrari drivers club. This is what happens when they stop importing Panteras into this country....these guys get hold of Lambo's instead. |
Jeff Cooper (Coop)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2001 - 12:16 pm: | |
WANG,
I to was emailed a link to a site that had a 355 in an accident. It was so gross, real or not I don't even feel right posting the link to it. (If people really want me to I will.) Any way it really makes you think twice about racing on the streets. |
billy zissis (89tr)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2001 - 11:15 am: | |
Sorry Bob, you are right my mistake again. Cudas chargers, challengers all look the same to me. That is why I never liked American cars and rice burners, they all look the same to me. As for the 355 if that other car was a 10 sec car the Ferrari faired very well nothing to be embarassed about (only the stupid driver's attitude). What was with all the graphics painted on the rice burners? |
William H (Countachxx)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2001 - 8:31 am: | |
Damn, why would any1 spemd $150k modding a $30k car ? Must b some esoteric investment trick I dont know about LOL |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2001 - 7:26 am: | |
Wouldn't this be a true marketing stunt for race track owners to go out now, while NBC and ABC this morning had the subject to announce they will open their tracks for street racing for a minimal fee of$3.00 each Friday night?
Just think of the possibilities in terms of coverage. These guys will be interviewed by every station covering this subject. We all agree there will be LOTS of coverage over the next months.
Get these kids involved in racing. If they love it so much...open up the tracks You hook them today with their beefed up rice burners and they will be loyal fans later in life.
Who wants to open up a race track....I see MONEY!
Anybody know if that Lambo is for sale? |
Awang (Wang)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2001 - 3:12 am: | |
Speaking of accidents, I was emailed some pictures of a ferrari (355) i think in a horrific accident with another car. both drivers dead and the ferrari driver was dismembered and decapitated! Yuck! |
bob behner (Ferrari4bob)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 26, 2001 - 3:03 am: | |
to billy if you are going to talk about cars please get the car(s) right that car in F/F isn't a cuda but a Dodge Charger not a Plymouth cuda.lets get the facts right.And as for the race with the 355 I thought it held up pretty good against that rice burner.In all I saw some of the fliming of this movie and I was told that rice burner had over a $150,000 into it not counting the price of the car so tell what would happen if you put half that money into the 355. |
Chris_N_Chicago (Chris_N_Chicago)
| | Posted on Monday, June 25, 2001 - 10:04 pm: | |
for me not to post anything stupid, funny, or
diabolical...means something here.
Speechless,
Chris N Chicago |
billy zissis (89tr)
| | Posted on Monday, June 25, 2001 - 8:36 pm: | |
Just wanted to correct myself, that was a hemi cuda pulling a wheelie. Anyway I get this sort of thing happening everytime I take either of my cars out. Every honda and nissan want to race at every light it gets so annoying. I've seen many accidents due to these kids who have too much power and do not know how to drive them. I don't think anyone who watches this movie will pull off the stunts they did in the movie. After we got out of the movie theater all the ghettofied cars popping their clutch and just acting retarded. Here in Queens,NY they cracked down on drag racing. The highway patrol confiscated two cars that were racing last year (a Viper and a juiced up Saleen Mustang) and now they are part of the police force with writng on the doors (THIS CAR WAS CONFISCATED DUE TO STREET RACING) |
billy zissis (89tr)
| | Posted on Monday, June 25, 2001 - 8:07 pm: | |
I read the papers and saw the pictures. What a shame. The Lambo driver must have been retarded or something. Feel sorry for the wives. But on another note, I saw the movie it was OK. Loved the challenger that pulled a wheelie. Anyway the ferrari in the movie was not a real 355, it had a 348 nose (maybe that's what is was and i missed it). I went with about 20 people and everyone started staring at me when the Ferrari lost. I just answered them, "What would you like to be caught driving in?" |
Danny R. West (Dan_West348ts)
| | Posted on Monday, June 25, 2001 - 7:45 pm: | |
Here is the url that shows the Lambo crashed in the article mentioned by Sam. What a mess!
The article also mentions that the Vette may have been equipped with nitros.
http://www.nydailynews.com/2001-06-25/News_and_Views/Crime_File/a-116129.asp |
Don Norton (Litig8r)
| | Posted on Monday, June 25, 2001 - 7:08 pm: | |
William -
Don't think for a moment that somebody won't sue the studio! I'll bet you an oil change that somebody will, maybe not for this particular accident, but for one where it can be proven that somebody involved saw the movie, and maybe had a similar type car.-DN |
BretM (Bretm)
| | Posted on Monday, June 25, 2001 - 6:18 pm: | |
I put a thing about this on the other italian part under fast and furious. It happened relatively close to me, I saw it on the news today. What a waste of people and a beautiful car. |
William H (Countachxx)
| | Posted on Monday, June 25, 2001 - 6:13 pm: | |
If I was the Vette driver I would sue the studio that produced THE FAST & THE FURIOUS cus its obviously there fault for releasing such an irresponsible movie. I mean its not like any1 is responsible for there actions in the US. Thats it, it was the Rich Evil movie studios fault |
Sam NYCFERRARIS (Sam)
| | Posted on Monday, June 25, 2001 - 6:09 pm: | |
Gentlemen,
You should see the picture of the Lambo (pancake)in the NY Daily News. It is frightening. I can't begin to imagine how this guy's wife survived in there. The Volvo just flattened it. The V-12 and the rear clip look like they made it out ok though. The Daily News said the Vette was equipped with Nitro and they are already linking it to the movie "fast and furious". Why don't these guys join a club and hit the track? Dead at 30, killed another at 43, good thing it is a little tougher to get a airplane pilot's license. |
Martin (Miami348ts)
| | Posted on Monday, June 25, 2001 - 5:11 pm: | |
What was the guy in the Lambo thinking...racing a 90 corvette?
How can you make enough money to pay for a 2001 Diablo and not have brain enough to laugh about the Corvette driver?
Reminds me of the El Camino that wanted to race me a few weekends ago. Every red light he was next to me pumping the gas pedal.... It was so annoying that I hit my engine on one of the next lights with him...the light turns green and off he goes in a cloud of burned rubber. He must have smoked $100 worth of tires. I laughed until he was over the intersection and shifted into first gear and slowly followed him to the next red light. You should have seen his face he was fuming. I saved my clutch my tires and had the last laugh.
That's how you treat idiots! |
David Albright (Dalbright)
| | Posted on Monday, June 25, 2001 - 4:35 pm: | |
and the guy in the lambo was racing with his wife in the car......what a moron!! |
William H (Countachxx)
| | Posted on Monday, June 25, 2001 - 2:35 pm: | |
Sounds like another good reason to trailer my car to the track in my 8,000# International Harvester |
Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
| | Posted on Monday, June 25, 2001 - 1:51 pm: | |
It's not much better here on the West Coast...
artciles on some recent races that made the news:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/06/21/MN171858.DTL
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/06/22/MN141945.DTL
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/06/12/MN2165833.DTL
video here:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/kron/archive/2001/06/21/race.DTL
Somehow I can't find the one article about the street racers here in SF that raced thru a residential neighborhood blowing a stop sign and was killed by an LRV (light rail vehicle) it is referenced in at least one of the above articles..
Sad state, TAKE IT TO THE TRACK!!!!!!
-Ben
PS here's one from Washington DC:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12634-2001Jun17.html |
Mark C. Gordon (Markg)
| | Posted on Monday, June 25, 2001 - 1:40 pm: | |
The Lambo' driver and the 'Vette driver were mutually engaged in a criminal act (speed contest) which makes both parties equally culpable for any results of that act. The 'Vette driver is as legally responsible as if he had hit the Volvo. Concept is similar to conspiracy law, where all parties to the conspiracy are held liable for the acts of all co-conspirators (which is why we see non-trigger men executed for the acts of the trigger man). Something to think about next time the temptation to race on public streets hit us!
In California, speed contest has always been a book-able offence with resulting impound at our discretion (used to be cop out there...)$1k fine seems a bit low from my memory... |
Mitchel DeFrancis (4re308)
| | Posted on Monday, June 25, 2001 - 12:53 pm: | |
Fellas, I have already noticed a lot more racing going on in Atlanta since this weekend. Its probably going to get worse, and we will more speed related accidents too. I was driving around in my VW GTI VR6 and it seemed every little teenager was giving me crap and revving at me. I ignored them, of course Just be careful out there in the Ferraris my friends, PLEASE! |
Randy (Schatten)
| | Posted on Monday, June 25, 2001 - 12:29 pm: | |
esp. with the recent movie release of F&F, street racing will get more attention in the media than it has in the past. such glorified racing will be attacked with realistic articles like the one here. it happens and the only thing you can do to prevent it - take it to the track, teach your kids to take it to the track (if you have any, which I don't...yet), or else, take it out on some back country road where no innocent bystandards are effected or can be effected.
I'm smarter than this, and I'm assuming that you are too (whoever reads this).
there was a rumor that this past wkend in some parts of california, that if you were caught racing (because of the movie), you would spend one night in jail, fined $1k, and your car will be impounded for 30 days. then again, it could be a scare tactic, not really nessesary to debate this one.
growing up in Houston, I admit, I breathed on Westheimer all the time - racing up and down all night long. Not good at all, but it took a while to age out of it, or rather move away from it. But if they really wanted to solve the problem on Westheimer, don't you think they'd just water down portions of the street, making it look like an 'oops, the water overflowed here'. sure it would cost a bit at first, but it would be a deterrant and make it an impossibility for 99.9% of the cars to race out there on the four lane road. just an idea.
/my two cents |
William H (Countachxx)
| | Posted on Monday, June 25, 2001 - 12:16 pm: | |
A Lambo Diablo racing a Vette in Long Island crashed head on into a Volvo. killing the Volvo & Lambo drivers. & the Vette driver is being accused with Vehicular homicide & being threatened with 3rd degree murder charges. So get ready guys cus the media & the morons r going to get nasty with us sports car guys Very soon.
I think the Diablo driver was a moron but I dont think the Vette driver deserves to b screwed cus the article clearly states the Lambo was weaving in traffic & ultimately made a fatal error. The Vette driver was just in the wrong place at the wrong time
http://www.newsday.com/news/daily/lidrag25.htm |
