| Author |
Message |
JP Lavigne (Jpl)
New member
Username: Jpl
Post Number: 47
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 10:50 am: | |
Let's not forget the 2 Cyl cars as well. In 55 he built a 2 Cyl 252 F1 and a 116F 2cyl, the other 4 cyl I have been able to track down include some prototypes that had very little race time if any. They included
1952 - F2
1953 - 553 F2
1954 - 700 and 700N prototype
1955 - 555 F1
1955 - 124 prototype
1956 - 354S
1956 - 865/555 prototype
1959 - 854 and 950
1959 - 850 Coupe
1959 - 950
It appears that Enzo tried everything from 2cyl to 12. They only thing I couldn't find was a V4, all of the 4's appear to be inline. |
Ernie Bonilla (Ernie)
Member
Username: Ernie
Post Number: 383
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 1:28 am: | |
The Ferrari four banger was the last time that something in a Ferrari was reliable. Hahahaaahha. |
Mike Dawson (Miked)
Junior Member
Username: Miked
Post Number: 52
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 12:55 am: | |
Wayne
It seems we think alike, I was thinking the same when looking at Batchelor's book. Not much was truely documented at that time.
I agree about Barchetta not always being accurate and up to date. Back about 1970 I had a friend who owned an old racing Ferrari that was just sitting in his garage. He had bought and raced it in the late 50's after several years of racing XK-120's (which is how I came to meet him; because of his Jaguar knowledge). Not having a V-12 dimmed my interest in the car but it was a Ferrari none the less. About 5 years ago I looked it up on the Barchetta site and found that it had sat on the pole at LeMans in 1955! Their data had a big whole in it that corresponded with the time of his ownership. I contacted the web master who sent me additional information about the car. What was really interesting is that local Ferrari driver E.B. Lunken was listed as driving it at Sebring in 1956. It so happens that a friend knows Mr. Lunken's son. My friend called the son to ask about his father driving in the race. He replied that he remembered the car and the race, he was there with his father and the car owner at the time, Jim Kimberly. He also knew of the person whom my friend had bought the car from. I sent my information back to Barchetta but they never added it to their data. The car is pictured in the 121 LM chapter in Batchelor's companion book "Early Spyders & Competition Roadsters". I remember it as shown in the book (re-bodied) but it has since been returned to it's original configuration. DK Engineering's web site has several pictures of the car, 121LM s/n 0532.
http://www.barchetta.cc/gt/99.DK/index.html |
L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member
Username: Lwausbrooks
Post Number: 379
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 10:39 pm: | |
Mike D,
Glad to see someone else with an interest in the early cars. Barchetta was helpful in starting my own database, but it's turned out to be only about 80% accurate and not updated frequently.
Out of curiosity, I pulled Batchelor's "Early Berlinettas" off the shelf to have a look. I can see where your information came from originally. The book actually says, as you stated before, that there were two berlinettas (one Vignale & one PF), that he had no record of competition on either, and that the location of the Vignale-bodied car was unknown to him at the time. He even has them both being powered by the 2 liter 500 Mondial engine. The problem is that Batchelor wrote the book in 1974 when little research had yet been done on the early Ferraris. Still, the man was truly a pioneer.
By the way, the car being driven in the deep south had to be 0452 MD. It spent quite a while here in the US during that time (it is now with Rene Maspoli of Switzerland). 0422 MD spent the last 46 years living in a French castle with long-time owner Jean Piger (since 1956). A few months ago, however, the car was reported sold to an undisclosed buyer here in the US. Just recently, it was revealed that the new owner is none other than well-known Seattle collector, Jon Shirley (of ex-Microsoft fame). |
Mike Dawson (Miked)
New member
Username: Miked
Post Number: 50
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 10:47 pm: | |
Wayne
Sharp eye with all those serial numbers, you must spend a lot of time on �Barchetta� as do I. The picture on the Barchetta site for 0452 does seem the be the PF coupe. They are both in the �Fitzgerald / Merritt� and Dean Batchelor �Early Berlinettas & Competition Coupes� books and no serial numbers were mentioned. I remember back in the late 60�s/early 70�s reading that the owner of one of them used it as a semi-daily driver somewhere in the deep south (an odd place for a Ferrari back then). Perhaps that is were I picked up the idea that they were street cars although their appearence does not say "race only� as does the typical Mondial spyder. |
Jay P. Ross (Eilig)
Junior Member
Username: Eilig
Post Number: 52
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 4:56 pm: | |
As an aside, I was in Maranello a few weeks ago, and at the Galleria they have an experimental "one-banger" that was built by Ferrari's Formula One program for testing.
I can't remember the amount of horsepower this thing put out, but it was incredible. It seems like it was 40-50 hp out of a one cylinder, 4 stroke engine!
How would you like to have that run your lawn mower!!?? |
Phil Bryson (Phildo)
New member
Username: Phildo
Post Number: 22
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 1:52 pm: | |
Wayne,
I'm fairly new to the site, but already I couldn't agree more with Hubert. When chatting with other known experts, try to convince them to help proliferate their knowledge to keep the lore alive!
Regards,
phil |
L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member
Username: Lwausbrooks
Post Number: 376
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 2:05 am: | |
Thanks, Hubert. Actually, there are a lot of us out there and many that are much more knowledgable than I. The rest of 'em don't contribute to message boards like this one, that's all. Here I get to be a big shot know-it-all but when I'm chatting with fellow historians, I'm actually quite humbled.
Wayne |
Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member
Username: Hugh
Post Number: 262
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 1:05 am: | |
L Wayne,
Whatever your day job, quit. I have never 'seen' a person more suited to be a bonefied automotive/marque historian; you should be working for Ferrari! Honestly!!
-hubert |
L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member
Username: Lwausbrooks
Post Number: 375
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 12:38 am: | |
Mike D.,
Which "one-off coupe road cars" are you referring to? The only original coupes that I can think that you might be referring to are 0302 TF by Vignale and both 0422 MD and 0452 MD by Pinin Farina. You refer to them as "road cars", however, all three were definitely competition cars. 0302 TF was actually powered by a 2.5 liter 625 TF engine and was later detroyed in a fire. The Pinin Farina coupes both competed in the 1954 Tour de France (as well as other races) and are still around today.
If you are referring to different cars, please let me know. I'd be very interested to hear more about them.
Wayne |
Mike Dawson (Miked)
New member
Username: Miked
Post Number: 49
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 6:42 pm: | |
Ferrari did make two "one-off" coupe road cars in 1953, both built on Mondial chassis. One bodied by Vignale and the other by Pininfarina. Don't forget the 6 cylinder cars, 118LM & 121LM which were both based on their then current 4 cylinder engines with 2 extra cylinders added on. |
Ron Thomas (Ronsupercar)
Member
Username: Ronsupercar
Post Number: 359
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 3:00 pm: | |
I think the original Mondial came with a 4 banger..
That was a beautiful car... |
L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member
Username: Lwausbrooks
Post Number: 372
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 12:45 pm: | |
Taz,
You died in 1953. The 500 TR in your profile (0652 MDTR) wasn't completed until June 1956. What gives? Resurrection? :-)
Wayne |
Dave Penhale (Dapper)
Member
Username: Dapper
Post Number: 293
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 8:52 am: | |
"the car would destroy 355's down the straight".
i.e. it makes a great dragster!
In the real world you would unfortunately have a corner to negotiate! |
Tazio Nuvolari (Nuvolari)
New member
Username: Nuvolari
Post Number: 24
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 8:45 am: | |
Wayne is correct with all of the models he quotes. Ferrari did indeed produce a 4 cylinder engine and raced it. If you look on my profile there is a picture of me driving a 1958 500 Testarossa. This car began life as a 4 cylinder and was converted to a 12 cylinder by the factory while it was still a works car. In fact, it only ever raced with the 4 cylinder about 4-5 times before switching to the 12. Lucky for me I got to play with the 12. BTW. the car would destroy 355's down the straight. |
Modified348ts (Modman)
Member
Username: Modman
Post Number: 393
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 2:12 am: | |
Yes, the Ferrari did produce a 4 banger, at the lot behind the club!... sorry, I had to let it out.... |
John A. Suarez (Futureowner)
Junior Member
Username: Futureowner
Post Number: 197
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 11:45 pm: | |
And people wonder if you guys know about older F-cars! |
L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member
Username: Lwausbrooks
Post Number: 370
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 11:34 pm: | |
1953-57 Ferrari produced the following 4 cylinder competition sports cars: 625 TF, 735 Sport, 750 Sport, 500 Mondial, 750 Monza, 625 LM, 735 LM, 857 Sport, 860 Monza, 500 TR, and 500 TRC. In addition, there were several F1 cars powered by 4 cylinder engines during this time as well (500, 555, 625, and 750).
As for road cars, the ASA 1000GT and 613RB models were produced from 1962-66, but were badged as ASAs and not as Ferraris.
|
Steve Magnusson (91tr)
Intermediate Member
Username: 91tr
Post Number: 1131
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 11:19 pm: | |
IIRC it was on Victory by Design that Alain DC described Ferrari's strategy to enter fast, but risky, 3 litre 12s and more rugged 3 litre inline 4s just for insurance in the same race.
http://www.ferrariturbo.com/Ferrari/Old/750mon54.html |
Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member
Username: Fred
Post Number: 650
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 11:04 pm: | |
I am pretty sure that they raced a car in the 50s that was a 4 banger. I don't think on a production car but am not 100% sure. |
John A. Suarez (Futureowner)
Junior Member
Username: Futureowner
Post Number: 193
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 10:49 pm: | |
Thinking about the pre-1997 Lotus Esprit has made me wonder. If they have, how many and in what cars? |