| Author |
Message |
BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member
Username: Bretm
Post Number: 2781
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 12:47 pm: | |
I definitely said in my post that Ferrari does have the biggest racing budget in F1, my point is that it can't be ignored that when a company is devoting so much of it's resources to one thing that it becomes the life of the company and dictates many of its decisions. If they had more money to work with, even if they didn't increase the F1 budget, it would be good for the company and the products they produce for the public.
As far as I have read in several books, Ford wanted partial racing control of Ferrari (in addition to company influence) if they were to buy them out. Enzo Ferrari wanted exclusive control of the racing team and wouldn't budge from this standing. He also was not big on having others involved in the road aspects of the company, but could have lived with it. I wouldn't be surprised if Pininfarina did influence or introduce him to the Fiat deal and it's obvious benefits. Ferrari wasn't too big with the Agnellis though so either way he wasn't getting what he really wanted, but this was the best of them. Had Ford presented a deal that Enzo agreed on he would have taken it initially, it was the delay that opened the door for Fiat and consequently made Ford a man with a mission in racing. |
William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member
Username: Countachxx
Post Number: 1536
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 12:11 pm: | |
Mitch, Ferrari may sell cars at $150 & $200K but the bottom line is Profits!! WHich are at best 25% of the sales price |
Tino (Bboxer)
Junior Member
Username: Bboxer
Post Number: 161
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 11:06 am: | |
Mitch,
You're on the money; the difference between your valuation and what the big boys came up with is because of an item you forgot: the franchising of the name, logo and designs is an additional major source of income (and it keeps a bunch of lawyers very busy). |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member
Username: Caribe
Post Number: 433
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 10:58 am: | |
Wow, $2.1B. Now, that would be a little hard to swallow for any credit union. |
Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member
Username: Caribe
Post Number: 432
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 10:54 am: | |
I wander how hard it would be to create a Ferrari Credit Union, and have the company member(owner) own. A semi-private company would be great (the number of shares determined by how many F-cars you own, or something like that). We buy and keep it for ourselves and get rid off GM and the like. Hum,... Factory visits as an owner instead of a tourist, I like that. Maybe we even get to help test drive new cars at Fiorano as a company visit perk. Deductible trips to Italy also. Wow, the benefits just keep popping all around. What do you guys think?
Now seriously, I wander if there is anything we can do to preserve Ferrari just the way we like it: GM, Ford, Audi, etc. Free!!! |
ross koller (Ross)
Member
Username: Ross
Post Number: 461
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 10:40 am: | |
yes i think piech went a bit crazy in the last few years. but i also don't think he is really gone either - he will definetely have a word to say about things in the future.
do agree though that they are bing foolish trying to sell a vw flagship w12 engined monster at $80k ish. if they wanted an up market product why didn't they just give it to audi, or if that didn't suit they should have 'invented' another brand like lexus or maybach. nobody in their right mind is going to spend that kind of money on a car with a vw sign on the front and then have to spend all their time explaining how its different and better blahblahblah.....just stupid. |
Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Junior Member
Username: Mitch_alsup
Post Number: 192
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 10:38 am: | |
Ferrari makes 3,000 cars at $150K and another 1,000 cars at $200K plus enough parts to perform a major service every 5 years on cars less than 15 years old. Add to that the F1 racing team cash flow of $300 M:
3000*150 = $450M
1000*200 = $200M
parts $100M
F1 $300M
-----
$1050M
A company is generaly reguarded as being worth twice its anual revenue. Therefore Ferrari is worth on-the-order of $2,100M! or $2.1B! |
Andre Vieira (Goggles_pisano)
Junior Member
Username: Goggles_pisano
Post Number: 53
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 10:20 am: | |
Another post, another agreement with Mr. Sawyer.
Methinks Herr Piech went mad with ego trying to take VW upmarket, and it will only serve to bite Volkwagen, Audi and Porsche in the ass. Too much product fighting for the same real estate. I highly reccomend Autoextremist.com for some great insight on this. |
Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member
Username: Wsawyer
Post Number: 521
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 10:10 am: | |
I agree with him too, William. In case you didn't notice there is a fair amount of sarcasm in my last post.
That said, Piech is now gone, isn't he? One man can hold back the tide for a while, but when he leaves, the inevitable will happen. I'm not convinced that everything he did at VW was well conceived. The next 18 months will show whether his efforts to bring VW upmarket were genius or ego-driven folly. I vote for the latter. |
William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member
Username: Countachxx
Post Number: 1535
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 9:52 am: | |
I agree with Ross, VW Pres Piech created the Porsche 917, and Audi has a LONG and rich racing history since 1930 at least. Piech is also a member of the Porsche clan & I dont have to tell you about their racing heritage
GM is too big & usually they dont have a clue. |
Bill Sawyer (Wsawyer)
Member
Username: Wsawyer
Post Number: 520
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 9:32 am: | |
You don't think General Motors has a racing heritage? How about the Cadillac Le Mans effort?
What's that? You say they ran away from the series faster than their cars ever ran on the track?
I guess I can't argue that point. Sounds like a good reason to try and buy yourself out of an embarrassing situation. |
ross koller (Ross)
Member
Username: Ross
Post Number: 454
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 5:53 am: | |
i would contend that the reason why the audi ownership of lambo is not such a bad thing is because of their own racing heritage (via porsche, auto union) and current racing program (le mans 1-2-3). so there is great understanding for racing, and sportscarness. unfortunately, gm doesn't quite have the same racing pedigree, no matter what all you getting your flames ready will say about nascar(not truly a factory sponsored event), or corvette at le mans (good result but very johnny-come-lately). |
Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member
Username: Hugh
Post Number: 270
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 3:10 am: | |
Bret,
No team on the F1 grid has more people, resources, and money than Ferrari, period. The size of its competitors is irrelavent when you undestand the magnitude of their involvement in F1 is; Ferrari may be the little car company, but it is the BIG F1 team.
|
John Moretti (Moretti)
New member
Username: Moretti
Post Number: 33
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 1:35 am: | |
Actually Brett it was Pinin Farina who talked Enzo out of the deal and then contacted Agnelli to sort a deal whereby Enzo could continue racing with the support of FIAT while FIAT controlled the sports car side. Upon Enzo's death all of Ferrari belonged to FIAT bar the 10% for Piero |
BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member
Username: Bretm
Post Number: 2779
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 10:21 pm: | |
Picture the kind of technology that comes out of Ferrari now with it's absolutely tiny budget. All their racing competitors have budgets tens of times the size of theirs. Yes, Ferrari spends the most on F1, but the others have so much more available at a moments notice and that does make a difference. Could you picture what Ferrari could do with GM dollars behind it. I don't think GM is foolish enough to get involved in anything Ferrari other than financially.
Plus, remember when Ford kicked Ferrari's ass in racing b/c of that sour deal thing between good old Henry and Enzo (for those that have no idea what I'm talking about Cobras, Cobra Daytona Coupe, finish it off with the GT40, all done to spite Ferrari for not letting them be bought because Enzo didn't like Ford's terms which was understandable). It would only be natural for Ford's enemies/competition to team up, some sort of pay back. |
Tino (Bboxer)
Junior Member
Username: Bboxer
Post Number: 160
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 9:59 pm: | |
William,
The $2.5B was computed from the $850M Mediobanca paid for 34%. |
Dave (Maranelloman)
Member
Username: Maranelloman
Post Number: 500
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 8:22 pm: | |
Yeah, but GM??? Next thing we know, they'd be replacing the 6 litre V12 in the Enzo with another 6 litre engine--the Vortec V8 from the pickup trucks! LOL! |
Dan (Bobafett)
Junior Member
Username: Bobafett
Post Number: 53
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 7:27 pm: | |
I think GM will be good for Ferrari. Let them run their course independantly, but up the QA with fresh dollars. I'm sure the GM folks understand something about maintaining brand independancies.
Just look at Lamborghini and the VW conglomerate. One of the BEST moves for Sant'Agata. Quality and sales are increasing, but the character and soul of the car remains the same.
Frankly, the whole national pride thing doesn't work too well. Just look at the whole Daimler-Chrysler mess. Two perfectly matched companies, and stuff goes awry in the end (although it's still too early to tell).
As for 2.5B - are you kidding me? If *I* were in control of Ferrari and someone offered me 2.5, I'd sell it so fast they'd wonder what was up. That would be GROSSLY overpriced by any measure. Ferrari may be undervalued, but not THAT much.
--Dan |
William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member
Username: Countachxx
Post Number: 1534
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 5:58 pm: | |
Tino, I cant see Ferrari valued over $1B, maybe a little more if you include their engineering business. $2.5B is WAY overpriced, Its a tiny outfit after all |
Jim Glickenhaus (Napolis)
New member
Username: Napolis
Post Number: 3
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 1:33 pm: | |
Ferrari is not included. Ferrari has already been spun off. |
A.Tonokaboni (Senna1994)
New member
Username: Senna1994
Post Number: 48
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 1:29 pm: | |
Please keep GM away from Ferrari! It would be a joke the heritage and essence would be tainted. Hopefully Eccelstone, Schumi, and Montezemlo will get first dibs before the clowns at GM ever do. |
Horsefly (Arlie)
Member
Username: Arlie
Post Number: 315
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 12:58 pm: | |
GM will just start putting chrome horses on the front of Corvettes, and everybody on this board will then extole the wonderful virtues of the car.
Of course, parts and service prices will then go through the roof! |
Patrick Pasqualini (Enzo)
Junior Member
Username: Enzo
Post Number: 57
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 12:50 pm: | |
If Ferrari goes to GM does that mean that Ed will like them again? |
Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member
Username: Miami348ts
Post Number: 3028
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 12:37 pm: | |
Rob,
I propose a $1000 per post fee. I like Tino's forward thinking.
Lets buy Ferrari from Fiat! |
ross koller (Ross)
Member
Username: Ross
Post Number: 452
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 12:17 pm: | |
tino, i won't argue with your numbers but....i lived there for a while and the italians do not like to let foreigners get hold of their crown jewels. blinding national pride. they will come up w/ some kind of internal bail-out or exit for ferrari to stay within some kind of italian controlled entity. berlusconi couldn't dream of getting re-elected if ferrari went to an american company.
fiat is a different matter, no love lost there and decision will be money driven only. |
Tino (Bboxer)
Junior Member
Username: Bboxer
Post Number: 159
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 11:27 am: | |
Ross,
Luca (not even Piero) can do nothing but watch; here are the facts:
Fiat Group owns 56% of Fer
Mediobanca owns 34% of Fer
Fiat has a buy-back agreement with Mediobanca
Fiat is in REAL trouble(lost 91% of its market value in 2 years). If GM insists on including Fer (and they are as Fer is valued at $2.5B), Fiat will be forced to give in; even the italian government is in the pot now. Only other solution is for Rob to impose a $1K per post, then perhaps a consortium of Rob, Magoo, Martin and Frank can try a take-over. |
William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member
Username: Countachxx
Post Number: 1532
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 10:53 am: | |
Dave , problem is $1B is loose change to GM. Ford helped Jag a lot at first. The XK8 & XKR r very cool although in need of a manual & a redo since the MB SL has taken over. The rest of Jaguars line up is pretty much a mess if you ask me, apart from the XJR & XKR Jag has nothing I would even consider buying. S & X type ? Give me a friggin break, those things r cheap & ugly
Ford has done better with Aston Martin, the DB7 is cool although it started life as a Jag XK8 for twice the $, who thought up that brilliant scheme ?
The Vanquish is WAY cool
Chrysler gave Lambo the Diablo then lost interest after Lambo designed the engine for their Viper.
AUDI seems to be doing very well with Lambo now, but they are a european Co & the Pres was the designer of the Porsche 917. Definately not GM |
Dave L (Davel)
Junior Member
Username: Davel
Post Number: 217
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 10:18 am: | |
I would suspect given Ferrari's heritage and its well known...very well known logo and brand recognition and its market value in the low billions, if GM was the owner, it wouldnt be destroyed or written off. One would hope the marque would continue and prosper.
With the recent posts on the 360 problems some owners here are having and the treatment from FNA, any changes made would hopefully improve quality and treatment of owners. Like say... FREE loaner vehicles for people who have paid 6 figures for a NEW US MARKET Ferrari. Even if GM doesnt own Ferrari, Ferrari itself needs to address some of these very pertinent issues I keep reading here. Lets hope they do no matter who is driving the front office. |
Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator
Username: Rob328gts
Post Number: 2487
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 10:16 am: | |
I prefer Ferrari the way it is, but even if GM buys them and within a few years they produce 20,000 Ferrari 914's and 20,000 Ferrari SUV's. I will still be a fan, supporter, and collector of pre-GM Ferrari.
I think Jags image has actually improved with Ford. Although it's risky if that would happen with Ferrari, Ferrari really can't get a better reputation. |
magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 3258
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 9:46 am: | |
Exactly William, G.M. could care less about the history of the car, only how well the public accepts it. If it doesn't take off then what?????? Also who would take the limelight in G.M., Ferrari or Corvette. If it doesn't profit G.M. they will shoot it down the tubes in a heartbeat. |
William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member
Username: Countachxx
Post Number: 1528
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 7:20 am: | |
When was the Lotus Elan 2 done with the Izuzu engine ? Wasnt that when GM owned Lotus ? I think GM had a deal with Izuzu then. What an abortion that was.
Big difference between GM & FIAT is obviously that FIAT is Italian & Ferrari is an Italian National Treasure. Something GM probably doesnt understand or care about.
I think GM buying Ferrari would be a tradgedy.
You think GM is gonna keep pumping $200M + into F1 every year ? What about the Corvette ? |
ross koller (Ross)
Member
Username: Ross
Post Number: 444
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 5:58 am: | |
it isn't going to happen that way. gm will get fiat, and maybe a small part of ferrari, but no controlling interest. there is a rumor circulating other chat boards about some kind of consortium of ecclestone, schumi, and luca doing some kind of takeover with the help of commerzbank. |
magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 3257
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 12:48 am: | |
Dan, Enzo may be dead but he lives in every Ferrari that is built. People relate to the heritage of Ferrari and it makes the car unique. This is the attraction of Ferrari, It's heritage. Associate it with some other large Co. like G.M. Ford etc. and the whole meaning and mystery of Ferrari will vanish. Hold on to your orig. built Ferraris because if this happens your cars will be worth more on the market being orig. Ferrari built cars. JMO |
Dan B. (Dan_the_man)
New member
Username: Dan_the_man
Post Number: 33
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 12:38 am: | |
I must admit that I would hate to see any major player get their greedy little hands on Ferrari. But, Enzo is dead. No more is this evident than in the Ferrari's of today. I am one whom likes the sound of the road, and the smell of fuel. I like having my window down because when my car was built power, handling, and redlines were more important than A/C, power steering (this in a ferrari???) and comfortable leather. It is no secret that Enzo did not indulge in the street cars. He made them to make money. But he made them to run. They weren't made to pamper the rich. They were raw and sometimes unpredictable, but beautiful, and they had no fat. Enzo is dead my friends, and we must accept that the company that he built died with him. I hope the best for Ferrari, but I fear that the people making the decisions are more interested in the dollar than the ideas. |
A.Tonokaboni (Senna1994)
New member
Username: Senna1994
Post Number: 47
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 12:35 am: | |
Modman are you speaking about Mr. Marriott? Also I agree I hope GM never gets there hands on Ferrari as I agree that the Lotus Elan of the late 80's was front wheel drive and had an Isuzu motor with a Camaro steering wheel. In regards to VW/Audi group, great they have Bentley and our putting in a lot more VW parts in the GT Coupe they are coming out with (all wheel drive Phaeton-A8 based platform) than Audi did with Lamborghini. The small Lambo coming out will share parts with an Audi as well but the Murcielago is a clean sheet of paper that does not share anything with any existing Audis. By the way the final Diablo 6.0's were terrific cars. |
magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 3255
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 12:05 am: | |
You are referring to the 308 GT4. |
G.Peters (Wfo_racer)
Junior Member
Username: Wfo_racer
Post Number: 54
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 12:00 am: | |
" An affordable Ferrari" you can buy old 308, the four seater 308 (not sure of the model#), and some others for the price of a Camry. How hard is that? Maintenence is a different matter but buying one is not that out of reach for the great unwashed. |
magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 3253
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 11:48 pm: | |
Different folks, Different strokes. When you have all that money sometimes a hamburger tastes better than a steak. |
Modified348ts (Modman)
Member
Username: Modman
Post Number: 405
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 11:37 pm: | |
There is this person in our area who owns multiple exotics in his 20 plus car garage and says he likes his Z06 the best due to reliability and least cost of maintenance and this guy is a multi millionaire. Rich folk mentality? like to know what that is like to understand. |
BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member
Username: Bretm
Post Number: 2769
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 11:18 pm: | |
You'll never get a Ferrari without an intensive maintenance program and problems, they are too close to the edge of street car performance. Running 11:1 on engines twice the size of competitors running 10.5:1 will insure you need to bring it to the dealership regularly. I do think swapping to chain drive would be a good idea, kind of. I'm still up in the air, but lean towards chains. Surprisingly a lot of the work that comes in isn't belts, so I don't think the dealerships have to worry if it was done.
Ahh, Chevy Cavaliers revving to 10K rpm, I can see it now. |
magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 3250
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 9:07 pm: | |
Oddly enough the frequent servicing, the high prices of servicing, and the high price of the car keep Ferrari in the place of not everyone being able to have one. These are things that make the car untouchable by just anyone. Like it or not this is part of the appetite that others see in the car and admire not to mention timeless design and beauty. Those who can afford a new Ferrari don't worry about gas mileage, pricey service and related costs. They want a car that is unique and not seen on every street corner. This is the image and this is Ferrari. |
Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member
Username: Hugh
Post Number: 269
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 9:00 pm: | |
100K services? Maybe. But, I don't think that Ferrari's will benefit from any influx of technology from GM; sure, 100K service intervals sound good, but at what expense? Also, while your GM car may have a service interval of 100k miles, what about the barrage of irritating little and not so little fixes it will need in the mean time? I'm not trying to say that Ferrari's are flawless, but just bring up the fact that while 100k intervals sound good, very few manufactures can/do insure trouble free ownership w/ in the time it takes to acrew those miles. |
Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member
Username: Irfgt
Post Number: 2138
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 8:47 pm: | |
Ferraris that could go 100,000 miles between services. That would really piss the Tifosi off. |
Dave Trbizan (Davidt)
New member
Username: Davidt
Post Number: 34
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 8:47 pm: | |
Don't forget the cup holders!!!!!! |
Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member
Username: Hugh
Post Number: 268
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 8:40 pm: | |
Arlie:
You forgot Starbucks. Regarding the merger, I can't see an upshot to GM owning Ferrari, or being involved, or anything of the sort; there is a missive b/w a what would seem to be Amercian business sense and Italian passion and the conglomeration will eventually lead to parts bin sharing, platform development, etc., something I'm pretty sure is already happening at Ferrari under the FIAT name, but will surely expand to a possible cross pollination b/w the two; and, it will happen, if there is a justifable fiscal gain involved. Also, how strange would it be to see a GM logo on the F2003 F1 car? Yuck! |
Francisco J. Quinones (Frankie)
New member
Username: Frankie
Post Number: 38
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 8:31 pm: | |
I think GM has this little habit of killing off cars when they finally start to get them better,but they do have Bob Lutz now don't they?at least he is a true car guy and not some ex lingerie exec talking about "product" and "unit" sales.BUT thinking about a "FERRARI edition Excalade" or "cavalier with handling by Ferrari" does make me nervous.Oh jeez, kinda like the new Jaguar Contour i mean X-Type,Aston Martin XK-8 uh,DB7 and Jag LS umm,S-type,I no feeeel good... |
Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Member
Username: Bob308gts
Post Number: 352
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 8:23 pm: | |
For that reason, I will not shop at Walmart have anything to do with Microsoft or buy any GM products |
Joseph (Mojo)
Junior Member
Username: Mojo
Post Number: 58
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 8:19 pm: | |
Ferrari in NASCAR. Oh my god thats rock bottom. |
Horsefly (Arlie)
Member
Username: Arlie
Post Number: 312
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 7:59 pm: | |
Eventually, there will only be five companies in the world: Coca-Cola, McDonalds, Disney, Wal-Mart, and General Motors. They will all be owned by Microsoft. All sheep must march in the same direction. Accept the inevitable. |
Ernesto (T88power)
Member
Username: T88power
Post Number: 825
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 7:46 pm: | |
Oh God.. I can see it now... horrible Vette interiors, 5.7L engine redlining at 6,700RPM, GM Radio and A/C controls, Ferrari in NASCAR, and an affordable Ferrari-based GM product... ugh!
Anyway, FIAT has let Ferrari be free for the most part on their road and racing programs. But, the new Murcielago is basically a rebadged Audi with a Lambo engine, and Jags ARE rebadged fords, and Aston uses ford engines. Not a good sign. It would be a sad day if GM takes control of Ferrari...
Ernesto |
Jeffrey Robbins (Teachdna)
Junior Member
Username: Teachdna
Post Number: 74
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 7:40 pm: | |
I understand what people ae saying but I think that a large company would be smart enough to realize that the profit lies in keeping the mystique and reputation intact. Otherwise, won't they just be killing the goose that laid the golden egg?
Ever hopefull and painfully naive..... |
magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 3247
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 7:34 pm: | |
IMO, Whenever any large Co.,no matter who it is, takes over Ferrari, the passion will die. There is a history and a story of Enzo and his life building Ferrari. Once that image is removed, and the concept of hand built cars with Enzos influence going into each and every custom car is lost, the passion will die and you will see them on every street corner as you now see Corvettes. Enzo may be gone but he still lives in the Ferrari Passion of each and every car. |
Noelrp (Noelrp)
Junior Member
Username: Noelrp
Post Number: 94
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 7:21 pm: | |
I do not mean to attack Hans' comment, but when GM owned Lotus, there was a period when Lotus used GM's steering wheel in their cars (maybe they still do). It was so ugly -- an exotic with a Camaro steering wheel? Come on.
I really hope that Ferrari stays the same. Do whatever - make the price unaffordable, build 400 cars per year, let the oil leak, I dont care! Just keep it independent.
Ferraris are for the selected few (and I'm so lucky to have one), so let it remain that way forever.
|
Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member
Username: 4re_gt4
Post Number: 323
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 6:57 pm: | |
There seems to be some dread in the idea of GM being mixed up with Ferrari. I don't think it would matter. After all, Ferrari is *currently* owned by a mega car company. Audi owns Lambo, Ford Aston and Jag. While I would agree that Ford has perhaps a little too much influence with Jag, Aston seems to have faired well.
Also, remember that GM owned Lotus briefly. They had a hands-off attitude re product (for better or worse), but did meddle a little in US distribution.
GM would know better than to 'Americanize' Ferrari. I think they would overhaul the US distribution arm, tho. Read: No more FNA.
Hans. (who has spent the last 30 years dealing
with GM execs, big and small) |
Tino (Bboxer)
Junior Member
Username: Bboxer
Post Number: 158
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 6:01 pm: | |
In yesterday's Automotive News: Two options left to save Fiat. Favored one is to merge Opel and Fiat which would give GM control without forking new capital. GM is willing to do this only if Fiat will include Ferrari (and not just Fiat's 56% stake in Ferrari but 90% as Fiat has a buyback right on the 34% sold to Mediobanca). Poor old Piero keeps his 10%. |