| Author | Message | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2816 Registered: 2-2001 |
I'll be interested to see me proved wrong and only an auto or a sequential offered on a Corvette or a Mustang. Everyone's always predicting the end of things automotive, currently it is the stick shift. 5-10 years ago everyone was getting hooked in this alternate fuel technology and predicting the gas engine would die around now. Technology changes, most things automotive essentially stay the same though. If they get rid of sticks keep your current Fcar forever, then sell it for ridiculous amounts of money 30 years from now. | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 267 Registered: 1-2002 |
I read that in the US, fewer than 10% of vehicles sold have manuals in them. Obviously, the bulk of these are economy and sports cars as well as small trucks. The vast majority of people prefer automatics. Combine this with the fact it is easier to get fed emissions approval on automatics and I would say the stick shift's days are numbered, I just hope it's not too soon. Dave | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 290 Registered: 4-2002 |
How about a unlimited ratio transition that keeps your engine at peak power RPM while accelerating? I know they can not handle much tq right now, however they are working on it. No more shifting, no more gears, and more acceleration. The MN6 will be gone then. Or if we go to electric engines (GM is already gearing up to make electric cars for 2010) then we won't have any gearing as the "engine" will be able to turn as fast as we want it to with 100% torque available from 0rpm - 30,000+. The MN6 will be gone then. I always find it funny when people say "always" when talking about anything. Technology will change, and fast. I bet in less than 20 years the MN6 will not be sold on a single production car. A far cry from "never" but not soon enough to keep me up at night. ;) | ||
| VS (Vs1)
New member Username: Vs1 Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2002 |
Let's not overlook the fact the the sequential gear boxes shift smooth at high revs - but aren't nearly as smooth as a stick at slower speeds. I haven't driven Ferrari's sequential - but can tell you from BMWs SMG that you better get the revs up unless you want to feel a decent whack when you get into the next gear. I think the stick will be around for a while for everyday drivers who don't want a slushbox. What's Lamborghini doing about a sequential? | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 2804 Registered: 2-2001 |
We know the Americans aren't going to eliminate the stick shift anytime soon, so at least the Corvette will always have one. I think you'd have a hell of a time justifying eliminating the stick shift and would turn away a large number of people. They would make greater profits just keeping both, even though it obviously entails greater production equipment, etc. I see these sequential gearboxes as a nice replacement for an automatic, but by no means is it a replacement for a manual. There are some very very useful features of a manual in regards to car control and balance that would be lost. Isn't the BMW SMG a touch slower than the manual, I'm pretty sure it is. EuropeanCar just did a test comparison between the two and found exactly that, I think BMW even released the figures that show that right from them. So let me see, in the article he says the M cars are vehicles that require top performance and the SMG is that, alright the slower trans is the performance one, obviously... Instead of catering to idiots, maybe they should keep the manuals around and hopefully people will leave their ignorance and learn how to drive them again. It's not hard, my mom is not what I would call a coordinated person, yet she can drive a manual very very well. She used to drive my Dad's second vette which was a hot rodded 63 split window coupe (he kept it for like 20 years) and she would have to put both feet on the clutch to hold it down for a long period of time like a light or something, LOL. My point is, if she can do it, then any self respecting man should be able to, and IMO needs to take off their skirt if they can't drive a stick now. And no, I'm not picking on you F1 shifter guys as most (or all) of you can drive stick, just choose not to which is your choice, I'm referring to the fools that can't drive stick and make a large portion of these sequential markets. | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 470 Registered: 3-2002 |
personally i hope we will always at least have the option to buy a stick shift. re the joy stick, i seem to remember an article in road and track a few years ago where dennis simanaitas tested a saab with a joystick and that this was one of the inovations they were trying out (they make jet fighters so they have the tech). anwyay, he liked it but agreed it was somewhat impractical. | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
Member Username: Solly Post Number: 422 Registered: 6-2001 |
But the new Cirrus airplane uses a miniature joystick on the left side of the pilot for all controls, and flying a plane is a damn sight more complicated than driving an F-car; more tasks to do at the same time. It's proved extremely popular and easy to use. Most pilots are right-handed. | ||
| David Burch (Merlyn)
New member Username: Merlyn Post Number: 20 Registered: 8-2002 |
I doubt there will ever be a joystick car for the simple reason that not everyone is right-handed, not to mention holding a map, cup of coffee. Phone or any of the many things we now hold in our right hand while driving. From an ergonomics point of view it's not feasible. | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 266 Registered: 1-2002 |
I asked local Ferrari sales manager about this. He doubted that the stick would be eliminated. Also told me some dealers have orders about 50/50 for F1's and sticks. Also more popular in Europe. He figured it is not that difficult to keep both since it is really the same tranny, just different opertaions. And I think the F1 fad may actually be fading somewhat. He said that when the 360 first came out, you could not give away a used one with a stick. Now the price difference is maybe 3K at most.I think sticks are easier to sell now because they are hard to come by. Personally, I think manual transmissions' days are numbered for a variety of reasons including emissions standards and fewer people who can even drive one. Me, I am a dinosaur and I hope it won't be too soon. One of my more fond transmission memories was the summer of '74 driving an old cement mixer with a dual stick 5X4 with no synchros, of course. These were already banned from new production because of the ease of missing a gear and ending up freewheeling. It did make descending a steep grade with a full load of concrete an adventure! Dave | ||
| ty (360mode)
Junior Member Username: 360mode Post Number: 72 Registered: 9-2002 |
hope not, if a traditional manual is not available i wouldn't ever buy a new ferrari again. someone said 90% of new ferrari's are F1's which is pretty close to what the dealer has told me (around 80%). | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Member Username: Doody Post Number: 548 Registered: 11-2001 |
nope, this is apparently an honest-to-goodness sequential manual. http://www-search.inter-ut.daimlerchrysler.com/cgi-bin/docview.pl?doc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Edaimlerchrysler%2Ecom%2Fnews%2Ftop%2F2000%2Ft00818%5Fe%2Ehtm&query=sequentronic&suchergebnis=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Dsearch%2Einter%2Dut%2Edaimlerchrysler%2Ecom%2Fsearch97cgi%2Fs97%5Fcgi%3Faction%3DFiltersearch%26QueryZip%3Dsequentronic%26Filter%3Ddc%255Ffilter%255Fe%252Ehts%26ResultTemplate%3Ddc%255Fdetail%255Fe%252Ehts%26QueryText%3Dsequentronic%26Collection%3DDC%255FALL%255FE%26ViewTemplate%3Ddc%255Fview%255Fe%252Ehts%26ResultStart%3D1%26ResultCount%3D20%26userquery%3Dsequentronic%26hostname%3Dwww%2Edaimlerchrysler%2Ecom&hostname=www%2Edaimlerchrysler%2Ecom&lang=g http://www.caraddict.net/ccoupe.html http://www.mercedesbenz.co.za/pc1/I_Article10.asp scroll down i heard that it was going into the SL350 on MBWorld here: http://forums.mbworld.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19119 the fact that it's not going into the new E55 suggests to me that they're sourcing it from somebody who can't build to the torque of the AMG cars. you know if BMW-M and Ferrari are doign it then AMG customers must want it. doody. | ||
| Viken Bedrossian (Vikenb)
Junior Member Username: Vikenb Post Number: 204 Registered: 5-2001 |
Doody, Is that a new transmission? From what I understand, the MB transmission you are referring to is an automatic with a manual shifting feature. Similar to the "Tiptronic" and "Steptronic." The MB version is called "Touch Shift." Please tell us more if that is a new transmission in the works. | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Member Username: Doody Post Number: 547 Registered: 11-2001 |
MB is also doing sequential manuals now with their "sequentronic" system, though i've yet to see a real review of it. the CLK is or will use it and the SL350 is going to have it standard, apparently. mixed messages on whether it'll hit the US market anytime soon though. doody. | ||
| Tino (Bboxer)
Junior Member Username: Bboxer Post Number: 164 Registered: 8-2001 |
Ben, MBZ is doing that only because they offer nothing but a slush-box, quite different form an F1 and not exactly performance friendly. | ||
| Jay P. Ross (Eilig)
Junior Member Username: Eilig Post Number: 59 Registered: 8-2001 |
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I actually ENJOY going through the gears of a 6 speed. I have driven the F1 system and the SMG system, and don't like it. If I were on the track all the time, maybe a different story. But for street driving, without a doubt, I prefer 6 speed. Going through the gears is an exercise of which I never grow tired! | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3054 Registered: 5-2001 |
That is so funny Tino! I have been wondering since the introduction of the joy-stick in the airplane cockpit why not make a joy-stick driven car? forward gas, backward brakes, left and right steering. Through ECU to electric motors controlling steering and brake and gas. Why not? | ||
| Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
Member Username: Benjet Post Number: 831 Registered: 1-2001 |
on the flipside I believe MBZ is re-introducing the stick shift in a few models in 2003. | ||
| Tino (Bboxer)
Junior Member Username: Bboxer Post Number: 163 Registered: 8-2001 |
We may finally be vindicated. Ross, I predict that in a few years from now (probably in our lifetime), clutches will join drum brakes in the realm of the obsolete, not exactly collectors items. (Maybe our grandchildren won't be using steering wheels.) | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1527 Registered: 6-2001 |
I;ve never driven a ferarri with an F1, or any ferrari forthat matter, so i cant comment, but i think shifting is fun. Im no pro and i still need alot of practice do drive a stick shift car on the track, but i think its more involving. Are they only offereing the SMG in M cars, or their whoole lineup? I think disconinuing manulas is stupid because they are cheaper so more people would be able to buy the car, and some people just like manuals- just like some people would rather have a 6spd in their 306 over the F1. | ||
| Nick Berry (Nickb)
New member Username: Nickb Post Number: 27 Registered: 8-2002 |
I have to believe there are financial considerations in BMW's decision. Ferrari, Lambo and Porsche produce substantially less cars and if the demand for manual is exist they will provide it. However, I am told that in ordering new Ferrari's almost 90% is with the F1 tranny.  | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 467 Registered: 3-2002 |
`order your 6 speeds now coz they'll b collectors items in short order........ | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Member Username: Doody Post Number: 546 Registered: 11-2001 |
wow. neat info. i guess it's a logical progression. though the lack of clutch control does limit the amount of moronic things you can do ;-) doody. | ||
| Viken Bedrossian (Vikenb)
Junior Member Username: Vikenb Post Number: 202 Registered: 5-2001 |
Looks like BMW is axing theirs: http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/e_article000103391.cfm?x=240231,6283993 Could Ferrari be next? |