| Author | Message | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Dr. Martin; I can feel you about sending it back to Germany. Maybe it is best to fly it over there yourself. As I said, personal contact..... Anywho, it is summer your use clear tape to tape the headlights and stick a teapot light in the frame. I am not sure how we can work the turn signals. Maybe the old fashioned redneck "arm out of the window up and down"-method will do?  | ||
| Daniel B Reese MD (Dbr328gtb)
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this very issue was discussed by Roush in Ferrari Market Letter last month- pros/cons of buying euro 360. Dan | ||
| martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
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Martin: close Amerispec 360 did come from Germany but not from Becker .From EMC GmBH,Dusseldorf. Ben; I too thought the engine had to be pulled for replacing the timing belt tensioner. Learned access can be obtained thru rear panel inside car. Martin I just can"t bear the thought of sending the assembly to Europe and waiting for the parts.I waited 4 mo for a liquid crystal replacement for the dash illumination. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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As I said... worse case scenario, you send the car back to Europe with a toasted engine. $ 2,000 round trip with Wallenius or fly it at $ 4000 each way. You got $50K to play with. And yes, to each his own. For the TR there were more differences, just as you said. The 355 an 360 had no more. Ferrari does not even bother anymore to build two different fenders. One with the side light (Euro) and one without (US). Cheaper this way to build just one car and incorporate all the specs. Again, my point is only that $50K savings goes a long way towards "not covered warranty" repairs. | ||
| Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
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Martin - In *MY* case I would have cared if it was a Euro, since the cats are rather hard to come by and I have to do the smog stuff every so often, I would have wanted the real deal cats not the imrovised. In the Euro Spec TR's there are different camshafts (all 4) and the timing would have to be adjusted back to US spec so as not to burn out the cats, this would require removal of the engine to change and wouldn't be cheap. Not to mention there are other differences. In regards to the one I saw at FSF for $160k it was not a Euro (nor spider, nor f-1) as they were in initial sales agent on it as well, and came with a warranty. I would assume they wouldn't give you a real price on the fone. Now if I can only remember the owners name....ugh... On a 360 not getting the timing belt tensioner update (where more than one engine has been toasted) would scare me, and yes engine has to come out for that one as well. While I don't personally frown on getting Euro cars, to each his own, I would say there would have to be considerable savings (what that means is different to everyone) for me to do it. You can get some cars at sticker in 6 months time, no wait list, obviously not a 360spyder. One more note, keep track and get as many records as you can, when on the hunt for my TR I saw another Grey one (hey 18 months later it's still waiting to be sold) on the ohter side of the country that I was interested in, the carfax report on it turned out to be totally incorrect. As more than half of subsquent (local cars = freinds etc.) reports that I have run thru them. your mileage may vary -Ben | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Dr. Weinert; I would hook up with the dealer that sold that car. Amerispecs buys mostly in Germany. If I take a guess it was an original Auto Becker car. Talk to the dealer and send them the headlight assembly. They will be able to send you a new one free if you pay for the shipping. If you plan on keeping your car, make a trip over there and visit them directly. Personal contact is always better. Slip the service manager some money and take him to lunch. He can make a lot of things happen for you. But smile and think of the $50K you saved initially. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Ben, forgot to tell you. I believe that there were cars for $160K around at one point. The first 360 Spiders were offered at $ 225K as well and sell today for $ 325K I for one can not believe that somebody wants to spend $ 180K on a 355 Spider. Blows my mind. Those prices will come down, once the 360 spider comes down. I can only attest to Dr.M's comment about a good broker. To make sure you do not have a stolen one, let the FBI run the car's VIN through the Interpole computer. I am not sure if the local PD can do that. FBI should be though. Tell them you have concerns about the legality of this car. >In my dealership I was offered once a car from France 348 TB in green. There were only 5 cars made british racing green with tan int. That car was stolen and so was a Porsche, that was in my shop for conversion from one of my customers. I did not import them but had them in my shop. The german FBI was in my shop while the 348 was offered to me. They did not figure that out before the car left and was gone. These guys were arrested a few days later. What I am trying to tell you, nothing to joke with. Can be easily checked. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Ben; thanks for the link. Read through the posts. Very interesting. The Cavallino event was even more interesting. I was there. Oddly enough Shelton Sportscars (Ferrari of Ft. Lauderdael) was at the FCA Spring Spectacular with a US Spider. Guess what...he had the same probelms. Referring to my prior post. Do not buy cars in the first year! I remember back in the early 90s when I was importing from the US to Europe. One of my Ferrari suppliers imported 2 F-40. One he had to run a crash test on for DOT. Yet he sold the cars for $ 1 Mio. What are they worth today? Same as any US model. Overpaying for a car is just plain dumb. Wasting money for nothing in return. So you are the first one on the block to drive that car. Big deal. Those people should be ousted from driving these cars. It is called "Penis enlargement" at the Urologist. Look at your Testa. That is a nice car, clean, has likely great service records. Who cares where the car is from today. The warranty is over. It is the identical car as a Euro Version. There may be a different cat-converter and muffler in a Euro. Thats the extend of that. I have the workshop manual for my 348. It shows the differences. Its the exhaust system only! One thing mentioned was the value declines the same. That is not true either. Check out Euro 308s vs US 308s. Almost identical. My guess is that once the 360 market stabilizes in 3 years, you will buy 2000 360s Euro for about $ 10K less than the US. If at all. I will give it my 5-10% rule´for imports. You still saved tons of money. On the Denmark issue: Ferrari has never subsidized any market to sell cars in. Never! They would not sell in Denmark cheaper that in Germany because they want to get rid of some cars there. Never! If you can not afford it...though luck...make more money! That is Ferrari attitude, back from the Enzo days. Best of all, there is no more differences between euro 360 and US 360. Identical cars! I saw conversions offered as low as $ 5K, but think realistical would be $8K. As Tim said, I'll wait with him 10 years and then pick up my car for a fraction of that! I try to buy cars after they reached their apprechiation low point. | ||
| martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
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no way you are going to close on a US 360 for 160k Parts are at least 50% less in europe.Since both of my hlights were burnt FNA wants 2926 for each assembly plus labor (Bumper must be removed)Agree with Martin re first yr mistake. Robert if you go Euro make sure you use a legit broker so as not to be stuck with a stolen car.I wouldn't touch an E bay vehicle;on the other hand if I was so clever I wouldn't be having so much agita with my Euro. BUT and I guess most impt it is gorgeous (racing red/black)and is a joy to open up.Beats sex esp after 45 yrs of marriage!! | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
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Paying that much is rediculous. They are nice cars, but 350k is pushing it. Luckily, thanks to depriciation, in 10 years when i am ready to buy them, they will be much cheaper. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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As I said Ben; I believe that that was a euro car that the dealer had as a resale. They are allowed to do that once the car was titled in the US. Now the prices for the US 360 Spiders are as rediculous. $350,000, please! And so are the 360 Coupes. Just nuts to pay that much over sticker for the car. | ||
| David Albright (Dalbright)
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The US is the biggest market for Ferrari and if they think they can get away with things, then they are probably right. There are PLENTY of people out there that dont mind paying $50-$60k over MSRP! As long as that happens, Ferrari as well as other car manufacturers will keep these practices up. | ||
| Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
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here I found it for ya: http://www.yourlog.com/discus/messages/21/602.html?985273717 just to see what was previously discussed. -Ben | ||
| Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
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Well when I was there (ok it was SOME time ago) that was the price they were asking for one that was sitting on their showroom floor, I know some of the other FC'ers saw it too. Check some of the older discussions on bringing in euro cars, we have had this discussion before. -Ben | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Ben, just called Ferrari of SF. They do not have any such car. Asking if he thinks that it sounds right at $160, he said that he never heard of a car that cheap. He may get a 360 - 2001 with less than 1000 in but will advise his customer that the car should bring about $200,000 ! That to me makes sense. There just can not be anybody selling cars with very low miles for that price while the market is soooo hot for these babies. Just more of a reason to buy euro! | ||
| Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
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Ferrari of BH and SF both had (and may stil have) USA spec delivery miles, cars for that price as discussed before. -Ben | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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I think it is even more than just paying more for the US model. We, the Ferrari consumer in the US is getting ripped of by Ferrari of North America. The reason why there is a $ 30,000 gap ($140 euro imported with DOT/EPA) vs $ 170,000 MSRP FNA is simple profit. That is profit that is made on top of the profit they are making anyway. In Europe the cars are not sold under MSRP. When the exchange rate falls, Ferrari of North America raises prices the same day, when it climbs...nothing. I bought parts in Germany a few months ago for an even exchange 1DM there is the same as 1 US$ here in the US. The true conversion is however 1US$ = 2.30DM. Translated...FNA rippes us off by 200%. Thank you very much I say. Again, it is not just Ferrari, it is all of the European manufacturers. BMW, Mercedes and so on. My 840 muffler...US $ 1,000, Germany DM 1,050 minus 16% VAT. I can only recommend that you all get good contacts overseas. Ship in parts from there. For my 30K service I will have a list will all the parts I need and bring them in August when I am in Europe. Screw FNA. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Doc; the car was then $ 200,000 for a US Spec car. So after all $ 50 Kilo saved is worth buying a new dash and paying $ 3000 for a new headlight assembly. As I said many times before NEVER buy a brand new model of the first production year. The 2000 360 did not have those problems. Live and learn. Never buy a 1978 308, 1985 328, 1989 348 and even 1995 355. Neither a 1999 360 ! Use the same formular with all other manufacturers. Still look at the amount you save. I am not sure where that 360 should be for $ 160,000. If that is the case I would take this car under advise as well. Just make sure the dealer is not selling you a euro as well. They might, once it is a used car that was titled in the US. | ||
| Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
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I have said this before and will say it again 2000 - 360 non f1 - from an authorized F dealer ASKING $160k. What are you saving? -Ben not that Ihave the $ to spend and it's not my decision but, I wouldn't. | ||
| martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
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I did it and am sorry.Bought from amerispec 99 360 with 3k miles.Car came with burnt headlight buckets and no background illumination on dash.Total cost was 150k.Mucho aggravation to get dash fixed had to send the dash back to Italy. Lights still not fixed.Found out thru europe dealer there were 8 recalls on my car.Fna fixed 4 of them mandated by govt but would not do other 4 inc headlight,tensioner belt,exhaust bracket and a/c diode.US dealers cannot even access recalls since they get a blank screen when entering the vin #.Not even mentioning ulcer producing angst dealing or rather waiting for call backs that do not come from broker.Borrow the extra bucks and go US!If you have specific questions E mail me | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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I personally did gray market imports the other way around many years ago. I personally think that it is definetly worth while. You are saving $ 40,000 towards the US purchase price. In other words, what can come out of pocket for $ 40,000 during the warranty period. Worst case scenario. The engine fails completely. You have to ship the car back to Germany and have it repaired there. Petty sh%* you pay out of pocket. Concerning the eBay price. I would NOT bid for this car on eBay. There are several cars out there at this price. The Euro conversion is so good that you will find even new cars at that price. Further I think you can negotiate this guy down if you do not buy through eBay and he has to flip these fees. You should be able to pick up this car for $ 135,000. My guess. Recalls. If it is a safety recall I am sure they have to honor this in the US as well. If it is something like the light assembly. Your cost. Again, if you have the contact to the german dealer he may be able to get you the part on re-call and you just pay to have it installed. Once the warranty is over...the gray market is the same as the US spec yet you will have the gap to be able to lower the price and sell your car quick. | ||
| Robert R. (Multisync23)
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I am considering buying a Euro-spec 360 Modena. I have two options: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=592638164 http://poundwholesale.com/autos.htm These cars offer a $50,000 to $60,000 savings over US-spec cars, but at what price? I'm curious if any of you have any experience or insight regarding Euro-spec, "gray market" cars. My major concerns are: 1. The car does not qualify for factory recalls. 2. The car is not under warranty, and any repairs will be "out of pocket." (But what sort of maintenance is to be expected on a car with 2000 miles?) 3. The car cannot be traded-in to a dealer, and could be difficult to sell on the aftermarket. |