| Author |
Message |
Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member
Username: Vwalfa4re
Post Number: 376
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 11:39 am: | |
Wouldn't it be the same thing if the NCAA made new rules about letting only certain people score a touchdown for a particular team in a football game?
Imagine the horror in giving the ball on first and goal to a kid who is one touchdown away from a school record when another guy one the SAME TEAM is having a better game that day. Just imagine how different the outcome would be if their team wins THAT way. How unfair would that be? If I were the opposing team I would ••••• forever about letting that happen. I mean how dare someone beat me with that player on that play and not with the other player? Unfair, unfair, unfair. |
Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
New member
Username: Tifosi12
Post Number: 43
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 11:22 am: | |
Yeah, good point Ross. Almost forgot that one over the years.
The sticky point about the now illegal team orders is, that they can easily be implemented by hidden actions. That was exactly the reason, why they allowed traction control back into the game, as the FIA couldn't say, whether somebody was cheating or not. So why ban something (like team orders) if you can't control it anyway? It is more honest to have it and admit you have it, than hide it in a prolonged pit stop.
Also heard, that some of the electronic wizardry will be banned again. Didn't hear any specifics though. Would be interesting to know more about it. |
ross koller (Ross)
Member
Username: Ross
Post Number: 489
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 9:18 am: | |
dr tom, as you say.....what would happen now if the 97 incident when maclaren and williams conspired to swap villeneuve places w/ hakkinen to give him the win, when jacques only needed 3rd place to take the championship?.....throw that at any anti ferrari talk that comes your way...... |
Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member
Username: Vwalfa4re
Post Number: 368
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, October 31, 2002 - 9:14 am: | |
Andreas is absolutely right. Watch out for that sticky fuel filler also.
I just do not understand that rule. I can understand it concerning two different teams but between two different drivers on the same team?
Either Ferrari wins or Ferrari wins. Big deal. |
Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member
Username: Fred
Post Number: 662
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 9:08 pm: | |
I don't mind a bit watching Ferrari crush the other teams. I hope they do it again this year. |
ross koller (Ross)
Member
Username: Ross
Post Number: 481
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 30, 2002 - 7:39 am: | |
i don't think these rules will diminish ferraris ability to walk away with the championship again next year. the points adjustment just means rubens gets the second spot quicker. the qualifying just favors schumi who is known to be able to just go out and max his first flying lap. and the tires will still be made specifically for ferrari, never mind what type the others get.
and, i guess i am in the perverse minority, but i love it when ferrari win and walk away from everybody else early in the season. i love watching the races for the sake seeing absolute mechanical, technical, and driver domination. let the others catch up if they can. |
Frederick Thomas (Fred)
Member
Username: Fred
Post Number: 658
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 7:38 pm: | |
They can make all of the rule changes they want but they can't change the fact that shumi drives for Ferrari and he makes the difference. |
Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
New member
Username: Tifosi12
Post Number: 41
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 3:01 pm: | |
Actually it is not about changing the brand of tires, but having more than one particular type at hand. The Michelin teams so far only had the "Williams-Michelin" (a compound suited best for that team), but that didn't help all the others. Same story for the Bridgestone teams, which in essence drove a tire fine tuned to the Ferrari.
I'm thinking they non Ferrari and non Williams teams now will get their individual Michelin or Bridgestone tire that suits best to their suspension etc. This is something they can work out over the winter.
I agree, that no matter what you do, the back markers will always be just that, but the middle field is probably going to be closer and hopefully Mc Laren (gosh, can't believe I'm saying that) will be closer to the two leading teams.
PS: Of course I want to see Ferrari win, but please not by as much. It just ain't fun. |
Mitch Alsup (Mitch_alsup)
Junior Member
Username: Mitch_alsup
Post Number: 199
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 1:49 pm: | |
As to the tires: Modern F1 cars are so sensitive that changing the brand of tires would require a multiday testing event to tune the suspension to the new tire characteristics. Although this rule levels the playing field, I think many of the back marker teams would end up spending more time chasing the tire/suspension settings than they do already today, causing the pack to be further behind rather than closer. |
Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
New member
Username: Tifosi12
Post Number: 38
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 11:54 am: | |
I think Bret pretty much sums it up. Although I'm not a fan of team orders, they have some merit and we saw the sad results of what can happen when egos overplay it like Pironi vs Villeneuve. That year everybody lost out (not counting Keke).
On a different note: IMHO the rule change regarding the tire manufacturers (unlimited versions of tires per manufacturer per race, which means they can now focus on more than one team) will probably make the most difference next year. It'd be nice to see Mc Laren AND Williams get top notch tires to compete with Ferrari. |
BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member
Username: Bretm
Post Number: 2813
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 11:31 am: | |
I think the problem has come about with the ultra egos of current F1 drivers, which are revered as Gods and it definitely goes to their head, as it would nearly anyone. They've been doing ordered finishes since the beginning of Forumla 1, they used to be a lot more discreet about it though like Andreas pointed out. Before they had the wonder cars, they would pretend they missed a shift, lock up the front a little, etc starting a few laps before the end. If you read any of the publications after Austria there are dozens of these old stories by Phil Hill and the likes. I like Rubens a lot, as much as Schumacher, but he definitely should have sat on his ego and not gone through those gyrations at Austria showing that he won and was giving it to Schumacher on the last straight. Same with that trying to tie B.S. at the U.S. What happened to race drivers that didn't care what the corporate guys wanted, that went out and raced their hardest and you respected that whether you wanted them to tie or not. |
TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member
Username: Tifosi
Post Number: 1577
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 11:30 am: | |
they also give points to the first 8 finishers with second getting 8 points instead of 6. Qualifying will take place on Fri and Sat now and each driver will get a clear lap. Also two diff dry tires can be used instead of one |
Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
New member
Username: Tifosi12
Post Number: 37
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 11:04 am: | |
...so Ruben's 2nd pit stop will miraculously take a few seconds more than anticipated
most be some problem with that rear wheel nut, got stuck, too bad buddy |
Bob Campen (Bob308gts)
Member
Username: Bob308gts
Post Number: 354
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 10:52 am: | |
Story in the Chicago Trib on F1 rule changes, all teams have rejected the weight penalty rule change, but the new rules forbide any ordered finish. |