| Author | Message | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3186 Registered: 5-2001 |
Hey Ralph, did you know that the German cops use Porsches on the Autobahn, most of them unmarked? better make sure that I know where the Ausfart ist  | ||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
Junior Member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 74 Registered: 3-2002 |
Here we go: Just be prepared to haul ass when the cops show up. Know which exgress points to run for. And Martin look for the Asfhart when you here the siren. Sometimes they come in without any lights TOO MUCH TIME Ralph | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3179 Registered: 5-2001 |
Showdown: When: High Noon Where: Main Street by the water well Choice of weapons: old rusty cylinder heads (have to be from a Ferrari though  ) | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 572 Registered: 12-2001 |
Alright, enough!?#@ Tony (or "Antony" as they say in Brooklyn), even the dumb mugs i know from the old 'hood know enough not to threaten to drop the dime on somebody in a way that the threat can be proven. Know why? Cause its considered extortion, and is itself a crime. So play nice, tell Martin you really didn't mean that, and otherwise feel free to whack away and take some whacks. But play fair. (Cause where i come from, they don't threaten people if you get what i mean...). | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3178 Registered: 5-2001 |
Hm I must be an idiot! Buying office space and leasing it out for profit is a leasing scheme! What was I thinking? Greaseball you are really making me laugh. Hey I don't know how you made the money for the cars you claim you own. I know how I did and I do not make excuses for 12h+ work days and the results those bring. Can't handle it? see a shrink! | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1686 Registered: 9-2001 |
man threats of IRS audits - now we are getting serious | ||
| "Tony the Greaseball" (Wopmobile)
New member Username: Wopmobile Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2002 |
Wi du i waist mi tym hair? Know moore a dis. Kneads to wacks mi Furrary. | ||
| "Tony the Greaseball" (Wopmobile)
New member Username: Wopmobile Post Number: 10 Registered: 11-2002 |
Where was this stated EA? Beside the first part of your sentence being elegantly nonsensical the second part must be in your imagination. Please point out where it was stated. By the way, if I would have said that I would have at least spelled "whack" properly. >>>>> Greaseball, you could not have written my comments for all these years, because that would have shown you that I do not wack off on my car sundays for a 10Mile ride and wax it, as you have so elegantly stated. <<<<<< Go back through the archives and read your degrading comments since you registered - I like the one especially about "taking a vacation that most cannot afford" - really nice and rude, probably makes those less fortunate who read this really feel good about themselves and wonder if all Ferrari owners are just like you. I may know they are not but what do those who don't know other members think? Ever hear of humility and manners? Or are there no words for that in German? Put a lid on it. It gets old. That is the opinion of quite a few others who have spoken in private as well. Your ignorance is only superceded by your lack of Ferrari knowledge. Ever been audited by the IRS with your leasing scheme? Wannabe? | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1685 Registered: 9-2001 |
While not an expert - I think as a site in general we are pretty tolerant of dicussions of other brands - hey we have a porsh thread in the showroom section | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 557 Registered: 10-2001 |
I'm confused. This is a FERRARI site, right? Not a "Sportscar" site...so aren't we supposed to have a special part in our hearts for Ferrari? As a non-owner, I don't mind Porsche comparisons, but the "Porsche is king, Ferraris are garbage" attitudes are inappropriate here even if they have a solid basis for argument. This site is dedicated to the love of the Ferrari marque, not to argue what brand car is "best". You guys should hang out in the Lotus Europa group in Yahoo Groups. No one ever compares Europas to other cars, good or bad, because no one cares!! We're all about Europas. When I read posts here, I want to read about Ferraris. All you Porsche guys: yes, maybe your cars are better in lots of ways than Ferraris. So is a Lexus. But WHO CARES???? Save it for the Porsche groups!! | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3177 Registered: 5-2001 |
So this is where this is coming from! Let me say only one thing to this. Ralph has posted "Oh well, ended up with a P-car". With that in a chat room you open yourself up for comments. I am sure Ralph was prepared for that Greaseball was aparently not. My comments were as I stated in my first post "I can not see...". I meaning I, not you or any body else. How clear do you need that? You may dislike what I say, you may disagree, you may think that I am totally wrong, fine! You can even think I am an a*shole, fine! From the quality of your contribution sofar I form my opinion as well, so will others. If somebody posts a topic "how can you afford thee cars?" or "How did you make your money?" and you decide that you rather not disclose this fine. I have no problem doing so. If you want my take on RE and get my opinion on it, as so many here have sent me personal e-mails asking all kinds of questions, you can and you will not get ignored. You don't have to use them, but I will take the time to answer you. Greaseball, you could not have read my comments for all these years, because that would have shown you that I do not wack off on my car sundays for a 10Mile ride and wax it, as you have so elegantly stated. Apparently you have nothing to contribute that is why you have not registered before. Fine! As for the spell check...Rob took that off and that did not help me, but again, if you would have read all of my posts over the years you would know that english is not my first language, but I am sure I am better in writing and speach in German than you are! | ||
| "Tony the Greaseball" (Wopmobile)
New member Username: Wopmobile Post Number: 9 Registered: 11-2002 |
Whoops, Ralph. | ||
| "Tony the Greaseball" (Wopmobile)
New member Username: Wopmobile Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2002 |
I was criticizing Porsche's continuous attempt to enter other markets and chasing about every revenue skirt that walks down the street. Not comparing V-Rod to anything else. I just expected it to be different from other HD motors - it really isn't. May not have Porsche name on it but HD sure lets people know about it and so far (I believe) it is not being well received by the HD buying public. Kind of like the Mooney PFM that flopped in general aviation. Ducatis are the machine I think all sportbike riders aspire to. I did. Bought a new 916 in the winter. Put it in my living room to admire the frame, the pieces and parts, the forks, the castings, etc., pure artwork. However, come spring, more than 50 miles and I wish I had a Gold Wing (kidding). The RC51 gives alot of the same feel as the 916 except I can fit on it much better - I am 6'3', 215 lbs and it at least is a 100 mile bike which is a decent radius. Not interested in riding any of them cross country at my age honestly. Was comparing RC51 torque and wheelstands to the inline fours not the Ducati. The 916 was indeed a rear wheel machine. : ) Hated to see it go but it wasn't the right machine for me. Glad we have a choice. Bottom line, except for probably top fuel dragsters and fighter jets probably not much else can boil your blood like a sportbike regardless of make or displacement. And if you love engine sounds : ). I get out of my Porsche turbo and onto the RC and the turbo seems like a farm wagon. Maybe it is meant only for bad weather? PAUL - CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR PORSCHE PURCHASE - YOU WILL LOVE IT AND NEVER REGRET IT! WopMeister | ||
| Dave Penhale (Dapper)
Member Username: Dapper Post Number: 349 Registered: 4-2002 |
That Harley V rod is no more a Porsche than my MV Agusta, sure they did some of the engine design work, but thats about it. Its a joke, like the old SEATS IBIZA that we used to have driving on UK roads with 'Engineered by Porsche' stickers in the rear windows! | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 413 Registered: 8-2002 |
I think that he's referring to the Harley V-Rod. The design work on the engine was contracted out to Porsche. Porsche had nothing to do with the design or developement of the rest of the bike, however, nor does the Porsche name appear anywhere on the bike. Also, the bike is a cruiser, not a sport bike. Comparing it to a Ducati or CBR, etc is like comparing a Cadillac to a Ferrari. Apples to Watermellons, or vice versa. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 292 Registered: 1-2002 |
Tony, I disagree, in part, with you assesmnet of the 916. Having ridden a '95 916, '99 996, and '99 750ss and having ridden, at length, an RC51; the Ducati's truely stand out. I found the craftsmanship on the Ductai's to be above that seen on the RC51, especially w/ regard to the frame -this is both an aestehtic and functional assesment- and while the components on both the 916 and RC51 are closely matched, I stil find that the 916 feel much more capable. Overall the bike is more narrow, the seating position is more immediate, and, to me, the rake is just right, at either setting. Further, the single sided swing arm gave the bike more bite through the corners, while I'm no pro, that's my opinion. The RC51 is a great bike, Honda is in the hole on every bike they make, but the components are top notch, and dollar for dollar, its brilliant. However, I have never been a fan of the 'standard' frame, nor the wide tank feel of an inline four, full ferring'd bike; which the RC51 has, regardless of being a twin. Also, the controls are funky, the handlebars too wide, IMO, and overall it feels very, very big; going from a 916 to RC51 in the same day makes the 916 seem minature in comparison. But, you are right, the stock gearing on the 916/996 is way too long, namely 1st, and while the bike doesn't have tremendous peak power, getting the nose up was never a problem; maybe you should try an SPS, for fun? Might change your opinion, then again, you probably have. However, as much as I can praise the 916, I can also shoot it down; valve adjustments every 6k miles, belts and fork fluid at 12k miles, shims w/ every valve adjustment, recalls for: rear hub spindle, cush drive bolts backing out, alternator, etc. Regardless of all that, I keep going back, as much as I'm a fan of the RC51 and was of the RC45, and having owned a variety of 'cafe racer' cb's and rd's, I just have something for the Ducati's, but as I've recently found out 2 valve ownership, in the latest generation SS bikes, is nearly painless v. the 4 valve's after '95 -the 888 is still on my 'to have' list- but, as always, even the top bikes in any range are underpowered; then again, I've never been bothered by withering at the spec sheet game. Give and take I guess, but as you've pointed out; there really is no greater visceral experience than a sport bike, something I can attest to, and anyone else that's made the leap to two wheels. BTW- I've been out of the magazine rack loop for a while, Porsche Harley? What the hell? One apt duo though: the ford f350 HD edition. The bike handles like the truck, and the truck out handles the bike, well done. -Hubert | ||
| "Tony the Greaseball" (Wopmobile)
New member Username: Wopmobile Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2002 |
My mistake L. Wayne, Just read in Panorama that beinig in the same family was reason not to compete against Audi in the endurace races. My apologies. WopMeister | ||
| joe saldana (Ironjoe)
Junior Member Username: Ironjoe Post Number: 108 Registered: 12-2001 |
Ralph,After 10 or so their a BLAST and they only get BETTER | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 412 Registered: 8-2002 |
BTW, Porsche owns no part of Audi or vice versa. The fact that their dealers are tied together in the US is through an agreement between Porsche and VW (Audi's true parent company). Neither marque sells enough cars in the US to support dedicated dealerships. | ||
| "Tony the Greaseball" (Wopmobile)
New member Username: Wopmobile Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2002 |
If you want a letdown, ride the Porsche Harley. Only good for being towed behind the Porsche Pepper SUV. Porsche seems to have their head up their ass with their peripheral product lines. At least the V10 GT is reality...or is it? When you think about it, what should they do racing-wise? They own Audi which owns endurance so why compete against yourself. F1? With the incredible rules changes on an annual basis and Max's most recent rectal cranium ones I can't believe anyone would cross the barrier to compete and you have to wonder how long Maranello will throw money at it. They hardly need F1 exposure to sell every car they make. They wnet almost two decades for winningh so it is not their F1 victory record that made us but the TR's etc. Maybe they and the other constructors should kiss Bernie and Max goodbye (yeah, I know there are contracts - but they are made to be broken) and go out and start a real formula where only displacement is the restricting criteria like the old days. What about Maranello at LeMans again? WopMeister | ||
| "Tony the Greaseball" (Wopmobile)
New member Username: Wopmobile Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2002 |
I have an RC51 that replaced a Ducati916 that replaced a CBR929. Always had a love affair with the Wopbike. After owning one I can say that she was a letdown in many ways. The workmanship wasn't as good as the Hondas, the maintenance was stupid, it was uncomfortable and I kept getting smoked by machines costing so much less like CBR600s. Gotta love that maintenance-free high performance of the Honda. Not as "Gucci" as the Ducati with the desmodromic but 35 tp 45% less green that the 916, just as flickable and torque out the yin-yang. Third gear wheelstands? Just roll it on baby like a dirt bike. No spinning to five grand and eating the clutch in second. Sure, I have been pulled away from by a ZX11 and a Blackbird on the straights over 135 but not on the twisties. The fun of a light V-twin is wonderful. Remionds me of my kid moto-X days. Penny for penny, nothing beats a sportbike if you have the reflexes, brains and fitness. If you don't, sign your own death certificate. It makes the adrenaline rush from any Ferrari except Schumi's a flash in the pan. WopMeister | ||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
Junior Member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 68 Registered: 3-2002 |
I do not understand why brand loyalty is a religion here. It is not the same but: When I ride sport bikes, you have around half a dozen different brands to choose from. When I ride my Suzuki Hayabusa, ( WM Harts next bike ), the fellow on the ZX-12 is not offended. Again it is not exactly the same thing. I wanted a car that has around 90/ 95% of a 959's performance without 95% of the 959's price! The car with the X-50 option and ceramic brakes is one hell of a stock street racing package for the money. Again: None of these cars we are talking about are investments. Save the very small specials. None of the regular production cars will avoid a "drive it out" nosedive. I got a really good deal on the car. I could probably drive it a year or two and not get beaten up to badly. I am going to enjoy it. Thats all. o/t Why is it almost everyone in Nigeria is wanting to give away money? I am going to sell my letters and e-mail notifications on e-bay. That is working hard for your money. Ralph | ||
| Fred (I Luv 4REs) (Iluv4res)
Junior Member Username: Iluv4res Post Number: 203 Registered: 8-2002 |
Only 1,500-2,000 miles per year? At that rate, it will take you all year just to 'break it in'!!! | ||
| ross koller (Ross)
Member Username: Ross Post Number: 537 Registered: 3-2002 |
like you say, too many cars and not enough time (not enough money also comes to mind.....). i keep a list of all the cars i would like to own someday, and unfortunately for me its getting pretty damn long ! | ||
| "Tony the Greaseball" (Wopmobile)
New member Username: Wopmobile Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2002 |
Mr. Hart and company, Nice to see some Ferraristi share a few of my perspectives. I have a soft spot for the 62 Buick Invicta that was my first car and brought me my first girl I may add and have been looking for one for quite a long time in the right colors...Fawn Beige if anyone knows of one... By the way, I used to be known as "East River Tony" but someone thought it was a bit too attention getting - I was in the concrete business then. So, in line with my obvious nationality "Greaseball" is a natural and makes no other implications. My Boxer is a superb car considering when it was built William, both in and out, but all of the Germans have always paid great attention to the small things - like knobs not falling off, no squeaks, and windows not getting stuck down in the rain. The Boxer was way out of the league of any Porsche back then and really until the 959, Porsche had nothing in the true supercar range. I owned one of the first 84 Vettes in the MidWest at that time and as memory serves me, it was an overall piece of junk, but with those Gatorbacks nothing could handle like it regardless of price including the Boxer...as long as the road was smooth. It was fun for 50K miles though. I agree with L. Wayne: anyone over 18 and who is a marque bigot needs professional help indeed. There are so many great cars out there due to generic advancements in engineering, design and manufacturing that to pick one as the best and to degrade others and their owners is just childish or stupid. You can be the most enthusiastic enthusiast of Ferrari but please do not be critical of others. I can think of probably 100 cars that I wouldn't mind owning and enjoying. If I had to pick one car to drive for the rest of my life, believe it or not, it would be a Chevy Suburban. It fits my lifestyle better than anything else out there and having owned maybe seven or so without problems and running the hell out of them, I'll stick with the Chevy in that genre'. It will start everytime no matter how hot or cold, has A/C that will freeze your balls off, will go about anywhere, rides like a limo due to wheelbase and easily tops 100 mph when needed. I have made the trip to the Montreal GP in a 993, the Maranello and quite a few others and that is all neat enough...but for sheer comfort, roominess and the ability to share the trip with others the Suburban is perfect. Sounds strange I know but we are all different and have different needs. I also just can't see the 996 tt or anything like it getting me to ski country in February and me not feeling bad about abusing it. In the meantime though, since I can have more than one car, I will keep playing with whatever strikes my fancy as most real car people do. And you know Martin, that may "Blow your mind" but me and millions of Chinamen really don't give a •••• what you think. My closest friend is a very rare liver cancer survivor at age 50. He is as much as a car guy as I am and he washes his stuff after every drive. Along with some nice CA wine at Christmas I also send him a selection of Griot's products - what else do you need but dinner at Peter Luger's and Michelle Pfieffer sitting on your lap? Anyway, his stuff included an ElCamino with a hot small block, a Lincoln LSC, a Buick Ultra and a Acura something or other and he loved each one (had a split window coupe stolen and burned as well). He had always wanted a BMW 5 series but denied himself that due to finances and impractability. However, after the sixth and final surgery, I helped prod him into leasing a 5 as "you only live once". I pushed for the 540 based on all I had read but he could better afford the 528 as they had some great lease subsidies then and he also had to get an auto to appease wifey. I dare anyone to tell him he should have bought X, Y or Z because that 528 just doesn't have the soul of a Ferrari. It pleases him every bit as well as an F50 would or better as he drives it every single day he can much like Mr. Hart drove his 550B (btw William I just saw a beautiful one for 310 - the struggling stock market breeds opportunity - plus my dealer friend expects the 360 F1 Spiders to be around 200 in a few months and to drop even further when the 420 coupe hits - imagine the "depreciation" faced by someone who bought in the secondary market at 270). Anyway, damn tangent thoughts, he also became an F1 fan after facing death after my prodding him to see high-tech racing up close and he got me to go to some NASCAR races in return. He hasn't missed Montreal with me since. In my feeble mind, I think that is what being an enthusiast is all about and that is why they paint cars different colors. Who among us would not want to drive a true Winston Cup car as well as a CART or WRC car just because it is not a Ferrari? They all feed our appetite in one way or another. That is what blows my mind about being a car guy...all of these good things to pick from. Too bad we have just one lifetime. Please don't forget that it was us, the Ferrari owners, that were cited as "the gold chain set" back in the 80's and I still hear that often from spectators but have never heard it in the Porsche or even the RR. Oh yeah, I own no jewelry other than a collection of wedding rings. FYI, Ralph probably has 140k or so in the turbo S so he wasn't far from owning a used 360 coupe, 550 or a 355 and getting money back...all of which are technically and performance-wise similar cars...he exercised his American right to free thinking. BRAVO Ralph! It ain't about keeping up with the neighbors. I feel sorry for those who think it is. Ciao, have fun and be well, WopMeister Tony | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 407 Registered: 8-2002 |
My $0.02: Porsche people, Ferrari people, what's the difference? They're all car people. I own a 996 aero coupe and an MBenz E500, am a die-hard and well-documented Ferrari nut, and have recently developed an growing interest in vintage (post-war) Alfa Romeos. People who are "marque biggots" (and are over the age of 18) need to seek professional help. | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 317 Registered: 3-2002 |
IMHO, you can still be part of the tifosi and enjoy Porsches. They come a long way. A friend of mine has a 996 Targa and it's brilliant. About as passionate as a German car can be! | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 303 Registered: 4-2002 |
Home run tony... I have a '69 911S with a 2.6 MFI hotrod motor... 9.8:1 Mahle P/C's, RSR sprint cams and the MFI pump is calibrated to match both. The car weighs about 2100lb and has 230hp.. it just screams. Handles like a go-cart. Steering response and overall feedback are second only to a formula car. The noises it makes between 5000 and 7500 rpm are fantastic. The intake noise from the mechanical injection is awesome. This car runs circles around my 308, and I think it would give stock Ferrari up to a 355 a real run for the money on a tight and twisty track (top speed is only 135 or so due to short gears). People also seem to forget that the 911 is the most successful production based racecar of all time. I have owned many 911's, never been stranded and indeed they just run forever with zero mechanical gremlins provided you keep up with basic maintenance which is extremely simple to do. I like my 308GTB too... and I lust after a Daytona in the worst way, but I will never be without a 911. If it comes to owning just 1 car... it will be a 911. Ferrari purists... open your eyes and enjoy the wonders from BOTH of these great marques! The early lightweight 911's and some of the other turbos and special models like the RS America are just awesome cars. Terry | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
Member Username: Omnadren250 Post Number: 331 Registered: 7-2001 |
Nice post Tony, Nice to see another true car enthusiast on here, rather than the "poseurs" that make up a majority of the members. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 565 Registered: 12-2001 |
Gotta laugh from your name and "handle"(still in my 70's Cannonball mode). Guy in my office collects captions from Mafia criminal cases eg "Dominic aka 'Tony Clams' Maranello." Substantively,Tony, you are correct that the 550's have taken a beating. Of the current models, the only one that seems to be holding its value is the 360, spider pricing remaining significantly over sticker. A good friend managed Algar for years, and now runs a Porsche dealership nearby. I don't know about long run value (that isn't the primary reason for buying cars like these-you'd have to be insane), but the Porsche turbo has huge performance for the money. I have not seen the latest interiors-i seem to remember they were to be upgraded-but in all honesty, they don't compare to the 97 S Turbo that had that beautiful set of instruments. As to fit and finish, Ferrari seems to be much better as to consistency than in the old days (although the older cars are in many ways more appealing to me). My old boxer was actually very nice, inside and out, but comparing that car to a P -Turbo is apples v. Germany. I think Martin may have been a bit heavy handed in condemning Ralph's choice, but, as you know, it ain't logic that drives us here. Otherwise, we'd probably all settle for an AMG version of the new SL and put the rest of the money into a track car... | ||
| "Tony the Greaseball" (Wopmobile)
New member Username: Wopmobile Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2002 |
So, Martin, why don't you keep you opinions on other's personal purchasing behaviours to yourself? And before you criticize other cars or buyers perhaps you should accept them for what they are and what they are meant to be and what consummated the purchase. To find that you can drive a full warranty supercar everyday and get your kicks more than just on a dry Saturday or by looking at your car parked in a bubble is a good thing. And, if you are a collector and get your rocks off looking and waxing and driving ten miles a summer then that is a good thing too. Who is anyone else to judge you? As far as finances, first of all that is none of your damn business but in case you haven't noticed, those of us who bought the "Ferrari Flagship 550's or 456's have lost our financial asses. Those who bought a 96 993 tt for 99,000 list at the same time still have a car worth 80 to 85 if it is at all decent. Hardly 50% in two or three years. Yeah there is junk out there available at 65 but look how cheap ALL 550's are and a 95 456 I looked at in FoSF was 90. I bought my 996 tt for 110, it is two years old and will bring 95 wholesale. Any real car guy will tell you that all 911's (and Mercedes SL's)have been historically great value retention cars if they have been maintained. If you are close with any FNA dealer ask him what cars to stay away from as they were junk when they rolled out of the factory. I have been steered from any 348 and any TR earlier than the 512 due to design and reliability issues based on warranty claims. Sure there are exceptions and from your tone I would expect to hear that your car is perfect or even better than perfect and one of those exceptions. That would go along with the proclamation you made some time ago about being so wealthy. By the way, most wealthy people will not talk about personal wealth as it is considered rude. Ferrari is hardly a perfect manufacturer as it is run by humans not gods. Ferrari made new junk just like Porsche has and BMW has. Junk is junk whether it be Ferrari, Chevy or Porsche and should be steered away from. To compare a high tech new 996 tt, especially an X50, with a 512 bbi, is a meaningless comparison. To testdrive one back to back with a Boxer and blindfolded would likely result in anyone buying the tt especially knowing you can drive it everyday and have no regard for miles or reliability. To compare a twenty year old Boxer with an 86 or 87 turbo would be more valid. The 86 turbo is as crude as a Boxer but based on my experience is a better car in most all aspects, especially reliabilty and maintenance, that the Boxer. The Boxer is great on the outside, OK to drive but the interior is tacked together - find one with an original dash that isn't warped. I have seen 360 dashes warped already and the airbag cover on all 355's amd 456's eventually will get there - great design and manufacturing, eh? Ever been stuck in your Ferrari? I have in every single one I have ever owned. Five grand for a hot start upgrade amd A/C fix on a Mondial is bullshit. My Mondial with a perfect history is one of the biggest pieces of junk that I have ever owned. I bought and keep it because I like it for my own personal reasons however even with the 348 engine. The 550 is much better quality-wise but is nowhere near the quality of a tt and it does not pull like a tt in normal speed ranges. I have never been stranded in any 911. You can own most any 911 and not spend five grand over 250,000 miles if you care for it properly. And if you think a 911 is sterile and/or lacks historical significance perhaps you should spend some time reading and learning. There are many of us who love the look of the VW based 911 and sound of a flat six even versus the sound of a 180 degree V 12. I happen to love both and also the sound of the Dodge, yes Dodge, V10 so that is why I own and drive them. As far as jerks in specific makes of cars (ala the KC Porsche club thread)- I think expensive cars bring out jerk behaviour at one time or another as to afford the vehicle you probably had to have an pretty strong ego to do well in your profession and that ego usually cuts across all parts of life. The arrogance that you have shown while I have been reading the FerrariChat though is really the type of behaviour that most people associate with Ferrari, Porsche, BMW and MB owners. I am not defending one make or model versus another. I owned and have owned about all of them over my years and have judged each objectively. All have advantages and disadvantages and I belong to quite a few marque clubs. I am as big a tifosi as anyone and am waiting for my 360 spider, but feel those who think everything except Ferrari is garbage is obnoxious and childish. To each their own. Why deflate someone's elation with buying a great car with your ingnorance and rudeness? I think you owe an apology and should take a course in civilized behaviour. As you profess to be some kind of dealer/roker and portray the same attitude I hope your wife works. My apologies to the balance of the chat members for this post but Martin's comments reflect upon all of us and prompted me to register and respond. Ciao fellow car lovers, back to my hole, WopMeister Oh yeah, what is "in the whole"? Take a spelling course too - your spell check doesn't catch those things. | ||
| Joseph (Mojo)
Junior Member Username: Mojo Post Number: 100 Registered: 9-2002 |
Ralph you seem to talk a lot about that toyota, So I think you should drop a 454 chevy in it and make those people cry with the $30,000 civics,eclips,ect. Would'nt that be a hoot. | ||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
Junior Member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 66 Registered: 3-2002 |
Thanks for all the positive responses. I guess I am now a porcupine man. You know what I am saying? Also I better not hang around with those Jerks in KC. Those tires cost some $$$$ Does'nt anyone have anything nice to say about my 00 white on gray Corolla. I am always looking for those Yugo's to smoke. It has a 1.6 with a rare 5-speed. 71,000 miles without so much as a glitch. My drivers use it after I bring the car to work. They deliver hot- shots. I twice made a hot shot delivery to a Dr's office on my yellow mono 748 Ducati. Can that be written off as a business expense? Ducati yeah.... I have nothing against anything from Italy. A great place. I love it OH well here I go with my short list: F Cars L Cars Armani Pizza Gucci La Perla Oh yeah Nikka know what that is! Thanks Ralph | ||
| Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member Username: Originalsinner Post Number: 698 Registered: 5-2002 |
I've owned 3 P cars. Thers nothing wrong with them other than they arent Fcars.Much more driveabilty and dependability.Enjoy | ||
| Todd (Tkrefeld)
Junior Member Username: Tkrefeld Post Number: 69 Registered: 11-2001 |
I have got to hear more about how you like the Porsche ceramic brakes when you get it. I read a test on those things. WOW!! | ||
| Richard Lawford (Rich1231)
New member Username: Rich1231 Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2002 |
Ralph, congrats on the Turbo. Great choice, but please drive it more than 2000 miles a year. It deserves, no demands to eat more miles than that. Richard | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2650 Registered: 12-2000 |
One quick ass great handling car no matter of the other considerations. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3125 Registered: 5-2001 |
Ralph, to each his own. Just bugs my mind to see that. The depreciation is based on other models Porsche. The 996 is barely a low production number car, so more and more will come onto the resale market and people need to drop them...price will be dropped to move them and here is your 3 year prediction for the 50% loss in value. We had that before in discussion with the M3. If it only depreciates 40% you are still $40K in the whole. How much service can you get on a TR for $40K? Lets see....4 mayor engine out services. But if you drive the car only 2000 Miles per year, chances are you won't need that in those 3. As I said, to each his own. As for the dealership you were referring to, some of the old chatters will remember them. Find them also in the "Hall of Shame" in the Keyword search. | ||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
Junior Member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 65 Registered: 3-2002 |
I will only drive the car a few miles a year because the Corolla is so AWESOME. "Oh what a feeling." NO - I use a beater (T car) as an everyday car. Real Reason - - I do not feel it is appropriate to drive a very nice car to my office when other people have a 88 Dodge that is falling apart. It could also draw keys along the way? Do not kick sand in the face of my (T car). Remember I have the (S bike); if you want to kick sand !!!!! Bring on your F40/50/60/70 etc..... I LOVE SPEED ahhhhhhh...... It is insanely fast. Just ask a chopper pilot. Bar room bravado at its finest ! Ralph | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Member Username: Doody Post Number: 577 Registered: 11-2001 |
RE: the test drive: the salesman was wrong. there's no way a test drive would cause the prospective buyer to suddenly offer even less for the car unless there was a real obvious problem with the car. if they were within 7% on the price, a nice test drive could easily have chisled some more margin in there for the dealer. clearly ralph was an interested, qualified buyer with a history of being serious. either the salesguy was having an off day, was late for lunch, or knew there was something wrong with the car. and depreciation is only one factor. i've spent 3X more on 355 service in 7 months than i've spent on the 996TT in nearly two years. the 996TTs definitely do depreciate fast. not a car to flip right now. they boosted production into the stratosphere - so you should only buy one if you really love it. it's not a smart investment (no car is). doody. | ||
| Mark Freeman (Mrpc12)
Junior Member Username: Mrpc12 Post Number: 79 Registered: 11-2001 |
Ralph: Don't take this the wrong way. But why only drive the Turbo 1,500 to 2,000 miles a year? That just seems like a travesty. I got my 2002 Turbo less than two months ago and already have 3400 miles on it. It makes such an awesome daily driver that I only use the 550 Maranello about once or twice a week now. | ||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
Junior Member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 64 Registered: 3-2002 |
Dear Martin: You are correct in alot of observations. I have been looking for a car since March. I tried quite a few places to locate a car. Perhaps I could have sent up a flare on Ferrari Chat. I am NOT being a smart *** by saying that. We can go back and forth all day about cost of ownership and what the car could be worth in the end. Of course the Boxer can go in only one direction with the TR in generally the same area. You have to figure the cost of the service with those two cars. I really did look for just the F mid engine 12 for quite some time. I paid to have two cars checked out at an authorized dealership. I had asked for a test drive on the Boxer (after) I had spent a few days before an hour and a half looking and talking about the 68K TR at the sister dealership. The salesman knew that I had spent alot of time looking at the 68K TR. We both knew he had spoken to the other salesman at the sister dealership. I was happy with the condition of the Boxer I had seen. I felt that I should test drive the car BEFORE we spoke about the price. I was at the dealership about three months before with the same salesman. I had spent about 15 minutes looking at an early 88 TR. I did not like the condition of that car. I did not ask for a test drive or any information on the car. Giving test drives is part of the process of selling a used car. I do sales part time in addition to other duties. We all know you cannot always read people correctly. I did not feel it necessary to show up to the dealership with a Mani jacket and Gucci sunglasses. I did have the Hugo Boss jacket though! I posted before on a previous post how my father purchased a new Mercedes in an undershirt on a Saturday. I do not think the Porsche will drop as far as you think. None of these cars we are talking about are investments. I will drive around 1,500 - 2000 miles a year at best with the P car. My 01 Z-3 has 850 miles. I really should drive this car more. It is just that the 00 Corolla provides such "sterling" performance. I love to attack the helpless Yugo's on the street! And do not forget My Corolla is armed with the rare 5 speed manual. This is really an option for racers and foreign people used to a manual !!! Wannna race my Corolla. All fun talk folks. Thanks | ||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
Junior Member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 63 Registered: 3-2002 |
Thanks for the compliments: I was going to pay for the used Ferrari without any financing. I used the money for the Ferrari as a down payment on the Porsche. I found a dealer who was willing to give a significant discount on the car. Believe it or not - it is a relatively stripped out car ! It does not have alot of cosmetic options. There are only five options on the car. X 50 power package, ceramic brakes, technology wheels, aluminum gauges, and floor mats. Of course the first two options are quite expensive as options go. As far as a second toy fun car? How about a 1961 Chrsyler 300? That is a real head grabber !! Thanks Ralph | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3115 Registered: 5-2001 |
I can not see where you can make that decission. A Porsche with no flair vs a Boxer or TR. Having owned both, you should have waited a while longer. You will lose an arm and a leg on the Porsche in value vs a steady Ferrari you were looking at. Boxers have not lost any and TRs are pretty much where you can not lose much more. The Porsche will be worth half in 2-3 years. In other words you will lose the value of a TR in 2-3 years or steril Porsche ownership. The problem I see is that you were not looking for one particular car. I think you yourself had doubts if you wanted to own a Ferrari so your sub conciousness was set on not finding the right car. There is plenty of TRs out there and plenty of Boxers in great condition that would have fit your criteria. We all know how bad you can be treated at a Ferrari dealership or any exotic car dealer for that matter. But you can not expect a dealer to give you test drives based on 5 minutes of looking over a car. Hell if I do that I have a line wanting to test drive a nice car for once in their life. Try to see their side as well. As you said, you could not even agree on the price so why take the car on a testdrive. Would you have paid the extra $5K you were apart if you had driven the car? The comparison alone is strange. Looking for a 80s Boxer or late 80s TR and ending up buying a 2003 Porsche. Blows my mind. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1634 Registered: 9-2001 |
I see your point but I don't think people are paying 130 for a 355 spider anymore. furthermore if he went with the TR or boxer - depreciation is minimal - the p car will depreciate fast- in the end it is his choice and I am sure he will be happy | ||
| Michael Fennell (Mfennell70)
Junior Member Username: Mfennell70 Post Number: 73 Registered: 7-2001 |
You have to make an allowance for cost of ownership. $125k worth of 355 Spider is probably going to cost much more to own than $125k worth of fully warranteed Porsche. Or maybe Ralph is substituting one Porsche for a Ferrari plus a daily driver. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 562 Registered: 12-2001 |
Interesting story, Ralph. I'm sure you'll be happy with the Porsche. But, clarify something. On the one hand, you were describing a search for two used ferraris in the 75 price neighborhood, but bought a car which i would assume is about 115-125k. I'm honestly not sure what ferrari i would buy at that price point (335 spider?), but the market price for boxers and testarossas is considerably lower than what i would assume you are paying for the Porsche. I fell in love with a restored lp400 periscope car Burtoni had but the thing was so claustrophobic i couldn't see driving it. You are probably better off with what you bought than any of the cars you mention, although there is something addictive about the 12's. enjoy. | ||
| acw (Acw)
Junior Member Username: Acw Post Number: 128 Registered: 2-2002 |
Congrats Ralph! The 996TT is a great choice. I'm sure you'll end up with both P-car and F-car sometime. You may also want to add ROW suspension to the list of interesting mods. The car is way too high in its US form. ACW | ||
| BJ (Bjkim)
New member Username: Bjkim Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2002 |
congrats Ralph!!! 996TT is my another dream car. I am soooooo jealous. Joseph: you can try http://www.funcarsonline.com | ||
| Todd (Tkrefeld)
Junior Member Username: Tkrefeld Post Number: 68 Registered: 11-2001 |
Joe, I have a 73 911!! Love it. c'mon over to rennlist.com and pelicanparts.com for top-notch message boards | ||
| Joseph (Mojo)
Junior Member Username: Mojo Post Number: 91 Registered: 9-2002 |
Ralph 2003 twin, How cool!! Most street horsepower Porsche's ever made. Let me know if you find a good p-car chat site, I would love to get a 73 911 someday. Great buy Ralph, Bet you can't wait. Mojo  | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Member Username: Doody Post Number: 575 Registered: 11-2001 |
interesting story ralph. one thing that i am constantly amazed by, as it concerns f-cars, is how damn hard it can be to spend this much damn money! i love my 355 to death, but it surely was a painful process to get someone to take the cash off my hands. you'll be back though :-) when enzo bites - he bites hard ;-) doody! ps: three words for you: "clear side markers". pps: two words for you: "bumper plugs". | ||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
Junior Member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 62 Registered: 3-2002 |
Greetings: I ended up with a P Car. I ordered on 31 Oct 02 a 2003 Twin Turbo with the X-50 package / 450bhp and ceramic brakes. I obtained an allocation car from Porsche of N. Orlando. The car will be at the dealer the middle of Dec. I will obtain the car after 7 Jan 03. I had a difficult time obtaining a used TR / Boxer. Perhaps I was looking for a deal that really does not exist? I was trying to obtain a superb driver with documentation for the mid 60's. One of the cars inspected was a white and tan 88.5 TR. I understand the Boxer is a little more typically. I had two TR's inspected. One at F of Beverly Hills around September, and the other at F of New England in October. I was told that both cars had never been repainted. I understood the cars had the front bumpers repainted. This is quite normal. However both cars had been completly repainted with 10K on the clock. I do not know if the owners were aware of what I really expected. There was paint on the weatherstripping in several locations on the car. Maybe it was just bad luck? The other problem was how I was treated at a Ferrari Dealership. ( Hey: I know I am not the only one to complain about this ). - Certainly not the first and not the last. The service dept at F of B.H. did above and beyond the required job. The dealer in Dallas was very pleasing. Another dealer was not an enjoyable experience. I had an appointment to look at a Boxer. I looked the car over for about five minutes. I asked if I could test drive the car with the salesman. I requested a test drive after I had looked the car over for about five minutes. I was told I could test drive the car after a price was agreed upon. This was not exactly a F-50 with 1,000 miles. This was a 84 Boxer with 10K. ( A very nice car IMHO ). We could not agree upon a price. We were 5K apart on price. At this point the salesman tried the bait and switch approach. I cannot pay or afford 75 for the Boxer? How about 68K for the TR at another dealership? I explained that I was looking for a car that had not been repainted. I had already seen the 68K TR at the other sister dealership. The salesman knew I had seen the TR. At this point the salesman was becoming slightly irate. I told him that I would rather pay more for a better TR with documentation and original paint - less the front bumper. At this point he told me that there were "all kinds" of people who NOW OWNED TR's. That a large majority of them cannot afford to upkeep there cars. I suppose this automatically included me! This was why I should not concern myself with trying to obtain a car that has not been repainted. The car also did not have any documentation. The salesman told me that the only thing that really was of importance was that a major was being performed at the dealership. I then explained that quite a few respected publications mentioned documentation / documentation / documentation x 3 !!! Then I was told about how the publication was incorrect quite a few times. Really this is no B.S. Try trading in your car without documentation and I am sure the story will be different. I am sure if you accidently find the documentation at home your car perhaps might be worth more. I then located a 83 Boxer forsale in CALIF from Carbuyer. We agreed upon a price. I called the service mgr at the new F dealership in San Diego for a buyers inspection. Two days before the service I called the seller to reconfirm the appt. You guessed it - You are correct. The car was sold. At this point I jumped ship and looked at everybodys favorite kit car! You are write again. William Countach's and every other kids favorite who obtained their drivers license in the early 80's. The Lamborghini Countach. I took the advice and asked Ted at Milano Imports ( Al Burtoni ) where I might obtain a nice original Countach that had been sorted out to some degree. There was a real nice one that Ted told me his grandmother could purchase. The seller and I agreed upon a price. 3K from his asking price. I told the seller I would be in NY to look at his car last week. NO Problem. The seller seemed very forthcoming with minor problems on the car. Paint bubbling on the spoiler, speakers do not work etc.... I called a few days later to reconfirm the appt. He told me another potential buyer wanted to see the car. Of course this buyer was ready to pay list. I mentioned that he might ask for some kind of discount? He told me that the potential purchaser was on the verge of just paying the money for the car sight unseen. I asked if I had the option of purchasing the car after I had inspected the Countach. He told me that business was business, and he now wanted the buyer who seemed ready to pay full price first look at the car. I could look at the car. I could no longer buy the car within 3K of his asking price until after the other potential late buyer had first crack at his Countach. I obviously began to rethink the whole idea of a mid 80's supercar. Anyway perhaps in the near future I might obtain an F car. My friend in Chicago is on his second car. He had a 92 512TR. He just obtained a 01 red 360 Modena Berlinetta. Thanks for all the help and advice people posted and e-mailed me. I will drop by from time to time. Mr. Doody when do you want to race ? Thanks Ralph Koslin Houston, Texas |