| Author |
Message |
Simon Campbell (Simonc)
Junior Member
Username: Simonc
Post Number: 55
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 4:26 am: | |
Sorry Frank, you are right of course. The 400 has horizontal carbs - mine certainly does :-) Typing error, I'm afraid. |
Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 730
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 10:25 am: | |
Well I dug them up. If you emailed me for them I am posting them here cause it's easier;
400-412 production.
carbed cars 1976-1979-400=502 cars
injected cars 1979-1985=1306 cars 886 were automatic.422 stick.
412-1985-1989=576 cars
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Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 727
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 10:29 pm: | |
Like I said it's difficult to use one in a pinch. But possible. You would need the whole 400 to make it happen. The only reason they switched the carbd was due to the hood height. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 1514
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 3:27 pm: | |
Simon, the 400 has sidedraft Webers which are of course mounted horizonally not vertically like downdraft Webers. |
Simon Campbell (Simonc)
Junior Member
Username: Simonc
Post Number: 54
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 3:15 pm: | |
Bruno - the 365GTB4 (Daytona) engine is a different configuration to the 400 engine. Although basically the same there are some major differences. The Daytona has three timing chains instead of the one that the 400 engine has, plus the carbs are vertcal 'inside' the V on the Daytona, whilst on the 400 they are vertical and 'outside' the 'V'.
Simon
1977 400 Auto in London |
Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member
Username: 4re_gt4
Post Number: 471
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 2:24 pm: | |
Yup. That was the car. I went to visit it several times, as I drool over blue 400s. Real bad weak spot. I'll do something foolish someday, I'm sure. |
Gene Agatep (Gagatep)
Junior Member
Username: Gagatep
Post Number: 66
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 1:06 pm: | |
Hans,
I believe that car was at Shelton Jag.
I wasn't too interested in it because it was carb.
But now that I'm looking for one, I think that
car was pretty good anyway. |
Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member
Username: 4re_gt4
Post Number: 463
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 11:33 am: | |
There was a carbed 400 for sale recently in Portland OR (at the Jag dealer). Didn't have cats, but they had to put them on to get it registered in Portland. |
Gene Agatep (Gagatep)
Junior Member
Username: Gagatep
Post Number: 65
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 10:54 am: | |
seems like most 400's didn't come with cat's.
anyone having problems with smog (especially califonians)? |
Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 722
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 4:02 pm: | |
Frank is correct, That is what makes it difficult to use the 400 engine as a replacement for the Daytona in a pinch. |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 1510
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 2:10 pm: | |
All 400 and 412 series 5 speeds had a traditional transmission connected directly the engine, not a transaxle as the Daytona and other Ferraris. |
Douglas A Hunt (Boxercrazy)
New member
Username: Boxercrazy
Post Number: 5
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 1:51 pm: | |
i have a question about the 400 series(i too have always liked their styling)did all the manual shift cars have the big console ie:tranny connected to the rear of the engine? or were there ever a 400 series car with the transaxle ie gated shifter?
thanks
douglas hunt |
Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 720
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 12:52 pm: | |
Well gotta go fire up the 400 got an dentist appointment. Look it even makes that easier to take. |
Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 719
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 12:51 pm: | |
The maintenance is far less than a 308 at 30k. You can do it yourself and cheap.plugs are looking right at you. If the car is on a US title I wouldnt worry much about a cert or emissions unless you live in a strict area.If you do find it to be "Gray" the seller should reduce his price by 10% that was always the difference between the 2. Most of the 400's I see selling cheap are being sold in California and usually MUST leave the state.One thing is for sure these vintage 12 cylinder front engine Ferrari's are overlooked and underpriced with very few cars to go around. Get em while the getting's good. Remember they were never sold directly to the US market. I cant imagine there is more than 500 cars in the US.I am going to be researching this.
Jay I'll let u know when I see one again. |
Gene Agatep (Gagatep)
Junior Member
Username: Gagatep
Post Number: 64
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 11:31 am: | |
I was just forewarned by a San Diego Used F dealer about purchasing a 400 or 412 out of state.
He just sold a nice '83 smoke blue gray / tan auto
a few days ago - d*** I was too late. He wouldn't
tell me how much he sold it for, but his list
price was at the mid $20K - I don't recall exact price.
If the smog wasn't done properly, it would cost me an extra $7000 to get it registered.
He said look for the BAR (Beaureau of Auto Repair) sticker and recommended pre-smog before
purchase. |
brett swaykoski (Brettski)
New member
Username: Brettski
Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 6:57 am: | |
well said magoo.i have enjoyed your posts many times before.i really just can't get enough of my '78.i know beauty is in the eye of the beholder but come on,there is no way a 400 doesn't make heart beat a little faster when you see one in motion.unfortunatley,pictures just don't do it any justice. |
magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 3503
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 10:10 pm: | |
5 speed or Auto., these cars are pure class. |
Ken Ross (Kdross)
Junior Member
Username: Kdross
Post Number: 172
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 10:04 pm: | |
What is the required maintenance for the 400/412 cars? Do they have the usual 15K and 30K services even though they have chains and not belts? |
John Ashburne (Jashburne)
New member
Username: Jashburne
Post Number: 8
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 7:56 pm: | |
Just to clarify, it was the second 400i, s/n 44121, that was sold at the Kruse auction. |
John Ashburne (Jashburne)
New member
Username: Jashburne
Post Number: 7
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 7:50 pm: | |
In addition to the difficulty of finding a 5 speed to drop in for a conversion, you also would need to change the rear end ratio: the automatic has a "12/41" final drive ratio (i.e. 3.42) while the 5 speed's rear end is a "10/43" (i.e. 4.33). The 4.33 plus the 5 speeds accounts for a much more responsive move off the line.
Be patient, there are 5 speeds out there. I looked at 7 or 8 all over the country before finding mine in California.
The October 5 issue of Ferrari Market Letter has a 1986 412 5 speed for sale for $57,500 (THAT won't sell very quickly at that price).
Currently there are two 400i 5 speeds for sale that I know of, both 1983 production year: s/n 46009, taupe met./black with 26K miles in CT advertised in the October Ferrari News Bulletin and s/n 44121, white/black with 51,000 miles at Motorcar Gallery in Florida. I do not know anything about either of these cars other than what I have read in the ad for the first one, and in a Ferrari Market Letter report (October 5, 2002 issue) on the Kruse auction in Indiana, where it sold for $21,306. Motorcar Gallery in the same issue is advertising it at the marked up price of $31,500!
The only question about 44121 was that there was no mention of DOT/EPA releases for the car. That can be easily determined by calling the two agencies. They will tell you over the phone if the car is cleared to be in the U.S. and will fax you a copy of the release letters if they exist.
Look at old ads also and call those sellers. These cars don't really sell quickly and so some of those still might be available even though they are not advertised currently. There tends to be a large bid/offer spread! ;-)
John |
Jay Morris (Jm3)
New member
Username: Jm3
Post Number: 9
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 7:11 pm: | |
I agree it is best to have a nice unmodified car, but I want a 5 speed so much I would almost consider a black one with a green interior (Almost)
Well, if you wait, it will come. Bruno, you seem to be very on top of the world of 365 / 400 / 412. keep me in mind also, for a 5 speed.
JM |
Jay Morris (Jm3)
New member
Username: Jm3
Post Number: 8
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 7:06 pm: | |
I agree it is best to have a nice unmodified car, but I want a 5 speed so much I would almost consider a black one with a green interior (Almost)
Well, if you wait, it will come. Bruno, you seem to be very on top of the world of 365 / 400 / 412. keep me in mind also, for a 5 speed.
JM |
brett swaykoski (Brettski)
New member
Username: Brettski
Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 7:00 pm: | |
bruno,
your right ,they are much rarer which is cool.i think you already now what will happen when you put them side by side at 60mph(308 v.s.400)and put the hammer down,no contest.really. |
brett swaykoski (Brettski)
New member
Username: Brettski
Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 6:52 pm: | |
hey dudes,
first post! i've had my 400a(1978)for 13 months now and have racked up 27500 kilometers in that time.it is a true daily diver in it's comfort,payload and reliability but it also offers the sound and performance you would hope for from a '78 ferrari gt. i could not be happier.it has never been towed or left me stranded and parts are available. i thought i would miss my 1979 308 gts(5 years-32000 miles) alot more than i actually do.i just could not afford to keep both and after all, who doesn't really want a 12 deep down?
|
Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 716
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 6:42 pm: | |
But it's not a Ferrari trans.
Also the production numbers on these cars 400-412 are extremely low. They made less over the entire run than 308's in 1 year. |
Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member
Username: Timn88
Post Number: 1587
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 6:34 pm: | |
If it's a turbo 400 you could just drop a m22 right in, its cheap and will never break but there mihgt be driveshaft legnth problems. the only downfall is its a 4 speed. actually, now that i think about it a T-56 should fit, in 5th gen vettes and 4th gen camaros the auto's are 4L60E's, and the manuals are T-56's and they use the same driveshaft, which means they are the same legnth. |
Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 715
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 6:28 pm: | |
Also, I havent done it yet. But I will put my carbed 308 next to my 400 soon side by side at 60mph and see what happens. I think the 308 is going to get eaten up. |
Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 714
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 6:25 pm: | |
I checked into swapping transmissions. The biggest problem is getting the Ferrari 5 speed. If you drive it in an automatic like I did after a whike your glad. It's not a race car.It was meant to be a country club cruiser to compete with the Benz.And it does so wonderfully. In the line of beamers and benzs at the club you will have the only Fcar and you pull the clubs out of the trunk. |
Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 713
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 6:22 pm: | |
I have an 80 400i. I recommend it over you other options for most of the reasons already stated. The pricing on these cars right now is well below their worth. It is a low maintenance 12cylinder front engine Ferrari. Let me know how you make out. I wilo try to find some leads I had from last summer when other members were looking to buy or sell.Feel free to contact me with amy questions. |
Jay Morris (Jm3)
New member
Username: Jm3
Post Number: 7
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 5:48 pm: | |
Well, what to you do if every nice 400 / 412 for sale lately is an automatic? It is a Turbo 400, so what about swapping trannys? I know it must have been done several times (and probably vice versa a few times as well)
I don't suspect that the value would be hurt that bad one way or another either. JM |
Gene Agatep (Gagatep)
Junior Member
Username: Gagatep
Post Number: 63
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 11:49 am: | |
All your comments are helping folks,
John - great post. |
Schumi (Schumi)
Junior Member
Username: Schumi
Post Number: 74
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 9:55 am: | |
I have a 1982 400i 5-speed that I really like. If you like the rear end of the 412 then that is the car to be no question. I personally do not like the rear treatment nor the wheels on the 412, and I prefer the 1982 interior much better than the later 400i's and the 412's. I hope this helps. |
John Ashburne (Jashburne)
New member
Username: Jashburne
Post Number: 5
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 1:55 am: | |
Key differences between 412 and 400i:
1. 4.9 liters and 340 hp on 412 vs. 4.8 liters and 315 hp on 400i
2. Two distributors on 412, one on 400i
3. 412 top speed 155 mph vs 150 mph for 400i
4. 0-60 mph is 6.7 sec. on 412 vs 6.9 sec.
5. ABS on 412 (first road Ferrari to have ABS)
6. Minor chassis and body differences for 412:
Slightly wider front and rear tracks;
Bumpers and rear taillight panel painted body color;
Wider front spoiler to reduce lift;
Rear deck trailing edge about 1/2" higher to reduce lift;
Rear fog lights moved from bumper to below bumper position;
Wheels less recessed with simplified hub design (still TRX 415 wheels on early 412s, later cars had 7 1/2X16 inch wheels;
7. Interior changes:
Electric adjustments for front seats;
Dual a/c standard on 412, optional on 400i;
Instrument numbers red on 412, white on 400i;
Additional high frequency speakers added on the dashboard.
There were 1,308 400i cars produced from 1979-February 1985 (424 with 5 speed, 884 with automatic).
There were 576 412s produced from 1985-1990 (270 with 5 speed, 306 with automatic).
Both are great cars.
John Ashburne
1983 400i 5 speed, silver/black |
magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member
Username: Magoo
Post Number: 3495
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 12:43 am: | |
Also Gene, I think you will like the carb. version over the F.I.. JMO |
'75 308 GT4 (Peter)
Intermediate Member
Username: Peter
Post Number: 2179
Registered: 12-2000
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 12:30 am: | |
Gene, don't bother trying to convert a carb car to FI, you could buy the entire FI car for the same cost to purchase the correct FI components.
|
Les Hodges (Les)
New member
Username: Les
Post Number: 3
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 11:40 am: | |
412's are marvelous automobiles -last of the series - many inprovements over the 400 including ABS - looked for 3 years before buying a one owner 412 - 5 speed last year. The same car featured in Forzna last year. Beleive that its important to have the history on the car you choose and to be patient - know the "complete history if possible". The only downside is in the lack of availability of the original TRX 240/55 VR 415 tires - not even Croker had them - gave up - had Fiskie make 17 inch wheels with Bridgestone SO-2's -WOW - what a difference - BTW -sorry, its not for sale. GOOD LUCK!! |
JRV (Jrvall)
Junior Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 53
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 11:10 am: | |
412i Hands Down!!! You'll never look back. |
Gene Agatep (Gagatep)
Junior Member
Username: Gagatep
Post Number: 60
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 11, 2002 - 11:00 am: | |
I'm beginning my search for a 400i or 412i.
I may consider an old 365 or 400 carb
for the right price and convert it to injection.
If you're selling one private e-mail me.
I may consider one that needs minor restoration
but I prefer a '7 to 9' point car.
Something nice to drive with, not necessarily
a garage queen, and not embarrassing to drive with
to car shows that it looks uncared for.
[email protected] |