| Author | Message | ||
| William Badurski (Billb)
Junior Member Username: Billb Post Number: 100 Registered: 6-2001 |
Russ Moore's comment is spot-on. And if Mojo's Camaro scares you, what about a Ferrari badged Aztek! | ||
| Joseph (Mojo)
Junior Member Username: Mojo Post Number: 114 Registered: 9-2002 |
I just can't wait to buy a new camaro with s/f badges on the fenders. Or maybe if I save my money I can buy a new 360 Modena with the optional 5.7 liter. Can't wait. | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
Member Username: Tenney Post Number: 275 Registered: 2-2001 |
Would suspect GM would maintain a hands-off approach re: the Ferrari brand. And so if the tangibles remain intact, I'd lose no interest. That said, might be cool to see Ferrari go sans giant corporate "partner". Perhaps with Luca at the helm. The road cars have never been better, IMO. And the race team seems to be doing okay on his watch, too. Like Harley-Davidson has accomplished in the world of two-wheeled transportation, Ferrari is a truly unique brand that sells all of the product that it can build. Would guess they'd be able to succeed reasonably well on their own merits. | ||
| Russ Moore (Rem9)
Junior Member Username: Rem9 Post Number: 103 Registered: 6-2001 |
Interesting question. By the same token, I also have a very nice E-Type Jag in the collection. I think it's one of the sharpest designs ever made by Jaguar, I don't think of it as a Ford, even though that's now the controlling interest. I'm not interested in a new Jag, nor am I interested in a new Ferrari. The older ones are just drop dead gorgeous. They will always be thought of as being Ferraris, even if another company did buy them. I had no affection or endearment to any Fiat ever built, yet their involvement with Ferrari didn't transform the cars into altered 124's with poor QC....... It's all about the cars themselves. If quality and design go to hell, then it doesn't matter who is at the helm. We wouldn't judge an old Autounion historic racecar by the poorly built Audi Fox, even though it is the same company plus a few years and transitions. The point is, I suppose, cars are usually judged as individual accomplishments. | ||
| Mark (Study)
Member Username: Study Post Number: 337 Registered: 10-2001 |
Ferrari boss Luca di Montezemolo is expected to replace PaoloFresco as chairman of Fiat Group as early as next month. I think GM needs to buy Ferrari and fix it! Ferrari is getting pretty flabby. 360 $169,000 0-60 in 4.3 sec (blurb in AutoWeek today) Your basic Corvette entered that phone booth and came out, well, Superman. The Z06 offers splendid performance (how's 0 to 60 mph in about 4.0 seconds sound?) and is a hell of a good sports car for your $50,000. (When people say "a $50,000 Chevy?" here's the answer: No other automaker offers this much sports car for so little money. If value is a Chevy character trait, Corvette fits.) The LS6-powered Z06 truly takes the standard Corvette to the proverbial next level. Do you guys want to drive and have fun??? or do you want to dream of history and trivia? Give me a GM ZO6 and I'll use my change to buy a vacation condo in Vegas and I'll show you how to party!!!! Sorry, I just don't give a damn about history. Never liked it in school and still don't care about the dead and the past. Technology Junky sick of paying 3 times what its worth! (i'd pay twice what its worth, and I think that's what GM could bring to Ferrari). But don't worry it won't happen. Ferrari is best at what it does- Expensive cars (they could charge more and they'd still sell out). There is something very important to men, to be in a club that only few can join. (PS before you guys get pissed my favorite car is the 360 and I have never given a crap about 0-60 times. Corvette is very tempting but I don't like them. Never been an American car fan) I just like to make the conversation a bit more interesting with my ramble. | ||
| V.Z. (Ama328)
New member Username: Ama328 Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2002 |
Hmmm, interesting question...couple yrs ago my sister & i toured both the Jaguar & Aston-Martin assembly plants(north of London, highly recommended for motorhead types); wasn't quite as neat as a tour we did of Ferrari/Maranello in 1987, but was still definitely worth the trip(s). Any rate, i was very curious to see what impact i could detect from both plants being owned/run by Ford and what the employees thought of it. Well, nobody on the tour was gonna squawk about it to a couple of Americans, but my take was: * They were glad to have jobs - don't forget that the Ferrari employees are living with this every day, while we just think about it during web surfing time. * Quality was up, consistency was up, designs looked good, production was up(still pretty limited at Aston-Martin, tho, but that's to be expected). * My overall take was that it was a good thing, and i think the employees thought that, too. Gotta wonder, tho, when you consider some of the crap that GM puts out, and some of the mgmt. practices. Having said that, there's no doubt someone in GM upper mgmt. that realizes that fooling much w/Ferrari could really squash the golden goose. What i'd pay attention to if GM buys 'em out is how many of the top employees hang around, and what word comes out of Maranello. They're gonna know the score first, and if it starts goin' south, we oughta be able to tell from the employee reactions. Btw, might not be all bad - how about a cross reference parts list of Ferrari/Chevy/Buick/Oldsmobile? "Not your father's Ferrari?" | ||
| Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
Junior Member Username: Ralfabco Post Number: 80 Registered: 3-2002 |
How did GM do with Lotus? I do not know the answer to this. I think the Esprit has only improved over the years while GM owned Lotus. Ralph | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3216 Registered: 5-2001 |
The Italians will rather allow the Coloseum to be sold to Disney than Ferrari to GM | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 2246 Registered: 2-2001 |
Karsten, we know how to make cars here in the U.S. too. | ||
| VS (Vs1)
New member Username: Vs1 Post Number: 41 Registered: 10-2002 |
Ahh - Bryan, the Chrysler/Maserati TC I believe it was. Completely forgot about that little debacle. Interesting point. | ||
| Bryan Phillips (Bryanp)
New member Username: Bryanp Post Number: 7 Registered: 8-2002 |
This might not be a fair analogy, but I remember how sad it was when Maserati, in dire fiancial straits in the 80s, hooked up with Chrysler and you ended up with a big, extremely mediocre Detroit product running around with the Maserati trident on the nose. Are my facts right here? (what was the name of that car? I'd nearly banished the whole affair from memory. I'm glad Ferrari has resurrected one of the legendary marques in automotive history in a dignified way - I hope it works). I'm sure the same thing would never happen to Ferrari, but you never know. There's no telling what GM would do if it got its paws on the most recognized trademark in the world. | ||
| VS (Vs1)
New member Username: Vs1 Post Number: 40 Registered: 10-2002 |
I'm with Dr. Cosgrove. Certainly wouldn't lose interest in my car and I think that Ferrari as a company will not change drastically going from big European company Fiat to big American company GM. Seems more like a bolt on acquisition than anything else to me. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 870 Registered: 2-2001 |
I would not have the same interest. The company would change, no mattes how much people try to say it wont. Maybe reliability would increase, but I would rather have current reliability (2+ year with my 360 and no problems) than have GM butt its nose into Ferrari. Ernesto | ||
| William Badurski (Billb)
Junior Member Username: Billb Post Number: 99 Registered: 6-2001 |
In my opinion, if GM were to take over Ferrari, even if they left it alone, this action could drive the value of "pre-GM" cars up. Just as cars like the F40 are acknowledged as the "last car introduced by Enzo Ferrari", those cars built while Ferrari was still Ferrari might see an increase in the collector market. | ||
| Dave Penhale (Dapper)
Member Username: Dapper Post Number: 356 Registered: 4-2002 |
I am lucky enough to do a lot of business driving in my job and with a good variation of run of the mill lease cars from manufacturers in Japan, Italy, Germany, UK, France. Of all the cars myself and my many working colleagues drive and have driven over the last 20 yrs, the worst by a huge margin in terms if BUILD QUALITY is FIAT. In fact so much so that many of us now refuse to take a FIAT from the lease company that our employers nominate. Clearly from the latest economic situation with FIAT people are voting by their reticence to buy cars from that manufacturer. This happened with Rovers in the last couple of years, they are now recovering the situation..ish It is felt strongly here that Renault are also probably going down the same road but in their case its not due to poor quality but poor styling, the rear end styling of the latest bread and butter saloon, the 'Megane' could really spell trouble for Renault if they don't do a restyle in short order. | ||
| Dr Tommy Cosgrove (Vwalfa4re)
Member Username: Vwalfa4re Post Number: 428 Registered: 5-2001 |
Absolutely, positively, 100% YES!!! | ||
| Karsten Jensen (Karsten335)
New member Username: Karsten335 Post Number: 47 Registered: 11-2002 |
Well thank you mate  | ||
| Roel de Fouw (Spawnz)
Junior Member Username: Spawnz Post Number: 68 Registered: 6-2002 |
Karsten: No Offenses made, we're all just trying to get the facts straight :] | ||
| Karsten Jensen (Karsten335)
New member Username: Karsten335 Post Number: 43 Registered: 11-2002 |
Okay, I rest my case. I've just haven't heard about it, I was just questioning it, I didn't say you were speaking untruthly. In that case, I hope that Mercedes og BMW is gonna be it's new owner. I would prefer a European owner of Ferrari, because Ferrari is European. And we know how to make cars | ||
| Amar Inam (Amar360)
New member Username: Amar360 Post Number: 12 Registered: 10-2002 |
Karsten, Fiat has been in trouble for the last few years with dwindling sales certainly outside Italy and an eroding market share in Italy. It has cut jobs this year and is about to cut thousands more soon. The Italian Govt is worried enough about the impact on the national economy that it is now trying to put together a private sector financing consortium. Part of Ferrari has been sold off by Fiat to banks already to raise finance and incidentally one of the banks expects shares to be listed on the market early next year: http://www.ferrariownersclub.co.uk/happenings/2002/november/commerzbank.asp So Ferrari's future ownership is very much up in the air... | ||
| Bart Boonacker (Sharky666)
New member Username: Sharky666 Post Number: 42 Registered: 9-2002 |
Well actually Kartsen, Roel is right. Fiat surely isn't doing very well. I found a news bulletin about it, it dates from 6 November this year : http://europe.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=3212 As I quote "A slump in Fiat Auto revenues, which include sales of its Alfa Romeo and Lancia cars, have dragged the Fiat group into the red, forcing it into a debt-slashing, job-cutting restructuring." Being dragged into the red, isn't really what you call "almost unlimited capital" But to keep on the topic : I think that when GM would take over Ferrari, then there will probably be a touch of GM in the newer Ferrari's. And you never know how that goes, but it might be good IMHO. For the history of Ferrari it wouldn't be a good thing, that's for sure. | ||
| Karsten Jensen (Karsten335)
New member Username: Karsten335 Post Number: 40 Registered: 11-2002 |
Bad? - Hmm that must have slipped throug my nose, because Fiat's are all over Europe, and in Italy, there are the only thing driving around But hey, if you say so.. That's just not what I've heard. | ||
| Roel de Fouw (Spawnz)
Junior Member Username: Spawnz Post Number: 65 Registered: 6-2002 |
Karsten: Euhm, Fiat is doing some real bad business atm, and they are far from having unlimited capital. Their car sales are simply bad in europe, and this hurts the company alot. Atleast their new Stilo seems to become a succes, that should help them somewhat. | ||
| Karsten Jensen (Karsten335)
New member Username: Karsten335 Post Number: 39 Registered: 11-2002 |
Why this Question? GM would never take over anyway. Fiat as a VERY big company, and have no riscs of going down + Ferrari is a good business to them. Fiat has almost unlimited capital to keep Ferrari running, so I don't think it will ever be a issue But okay, I think the Ferrari as we now it, will die. The old models are still there, but the new will almost absolutely have their touch of GM, I'm pretty sure | ||
| Edward Gault (Irfgt)
Intermediate Member Username: Irfgt Post Number: 2244 Registered: 2-2001 |
Saab seems to be doing quite well. | ||
| Dan (Bobafett)
Junior Member Username: Bobafett Post Number: 94 Registered: 9-2002 |
I would imagine good things coming from a GM purchase, and if managed properly, I would imagine that Ferrari desirability would only increase. Imagine Ferrari with the kind of financial backing they needed all along. While I don't necessarily agree with the commercialism Luca di envisions, I can't imagine Ferrari staying afloat for much longer as an 'independant.' --Dan | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3530 Registered: 2-2001 |
So far I agree with both posts but what about the legend, knowing it is now in the hands of a big auto manuf.. Is it still alive or did it die with our cars? | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 2741 Registered: 12-2000 |
I think I would loose interest in the new models, but would still respect the old for what they are. Remember that when Fiat bought Ferrari some may have considered it the end. However, that really pushed through the highly exotic mid engined cars and produced enough numbers to allow most on this board to have one. | ||
| Jeffrey Davison (Jeffdavison)
New member Username: Jeffdavison Post Number: 17 Registered: 7-2002 |
If, and only if, they were given complete autonomy and if they allowed the F1 effort to continue and.........zero down, zero percent for 6 years and no payments until 2005 wouldn't hurt either ;^P Jeff Davison | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3528 Registered: 2-2001 |
We have talked about this before but never asked this direct personal question. Would you still have the interest in your Ferrari car and Ferrari as a company if G.M. or some other large auto manuf. bought it. |