| Author |
Message |
JRV (Jrvall)
Junior Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 144
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 9:53 pm: | |
>>>there was an f50 seized about a year ago here in houston for being brought in on a repair bond and being marketed for sale. the owner, who was a dealer, quickly "disappeared". i don't know what happened to him (possibly jail), but you can't find him anywhere, and he was a good dealer to deal with.<<<
Now let's think this thru in the interest of saving others possible grief if you don't mind...
1) Was selling a car illegally
2) disappeared
3)possibly in jail
4) a good dealer to deal with ????????????
Huhhh??? :-0
It's a Jungle Out There Folks ! The Grief & Money You Save, Just Might Be Your Own! |
william speer (Wspeer)
Junior Member
Username: Wspeer
Post Number: 94
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 9:27 pm: | |
•••• merrit is an old time ferrari collector, if he can't account for the car, there is a problem. with the older cars, there really isn't the problems one would expect. with the newer cars, make sure all the ducks are in a row. unless the car is exempt for historical reasons, you need to make sure the papers are good. there was an f50 seized about a year ago here in houston for being brought in on a repair bond and being marketed for sale. the owner, who was a dealer, quickly "disappeared". i don't know what happened to him (possibly jail), but you can't find him anywhere, and he was a good dealer to deal with. if i was betting by money, i would make sure the car checks out and not take any chances. |
William Badurski (Billb)
Junior Member
Username: Billb
Post Number: 102
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 5:30 pm: | |
A car can be here on a bona-fide title with no EPA/DOT, but that's a problem. As stated earlier, the title is proof of ownership and nothing more. Without the releases, the car is here, owned by you, but not legal. Don't buy anything that •••• Merritt can't account for. |
Bruno (Originalsinner)
Member
Username: Originalsinner
Post Number: 737
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 5:03 pm: | |
This comes up all the time. Let sleeping dogs lie.If it's over 20 years old,15 in Pennsylvania, it's exempt as a classic.The lost title theory would not work here as they only order a duplicate they do not create a new title. If you have a valid U.S. title you are good to go.The rule has always been if a car is not a U.S. car subtract 10% from the going price.Regardless if it is certified or not. |
Ralph Koslin (Ralfabco)
Junior Member
Username: Ralfabco
Post Number: 81
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 11:04 am: | |
I was thinking of importing from overseas at times. There are of course many ways to bring a car into the USA. Some temporary / some permanent. There are also friends overseas who
can bring a car in with a certain type of work
visa. + other ways I am sure. Of course the car is supposed to be exported or converted after the worker leaves the country. You may have to post
some type of bond.
I am sure a few states do not have the ability to
check with EPA/DOT to see if the car is legally here in the USA. Probably every other state has
different requirements. Same old bureaucratic
nightmare. I started digging a little on bringing over a grey market car. I was told that you had to also check with Dept of Agriculture in addition to the others.
Just protecting their domestic markets?
They wanted to make sure that the dirt in the wheelwells was not contaminated with soil.
And it seemed every other inspector had a different story. Of couse the brokers knew the
business who had experience in importing the cars. I do not know; if it is worth the effort.
Resale will hurt you unless the car was never
regularly imported to the USA by the factory.
Ralph |
Charles Barton (Airbarton)
New member
Username: Airbarton
Post Number: 26
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 10:34 am: | |
Why even risk it when there are so many great legal cars available out there! |
Ben Lobenstein 90 TR (Benjet)
Member
Username: Benjet
Post Number: 886
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 11:55 am: | |
I have a friend with 3 such cars (not F cars - but still exotics tho), all with normal title, and NOT having DOT/EPA/Federalization (they are less than 5 year old EURO models). There are numerous ways to get it/them here, and I'm sure there are at least a few ways to keep them here. All are titled and insured. His insurance doesn't seem to mind - I know he has had a few claims. He will NOT tell you how he managed to do it, but I know it can be done.
-Ben |
V.Z. (Ama328)
New member
Username: Ama328
Post Number: 11
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 11:53 am: | |
If memory serves, the FML did some coverage on gray imports around the time the laws changed several years ago, and i thought the one time exemption went away, to be replaced by the 25 yr & older exemption.
My insurance agent(State Farm in TX) ALWAYS checks VIN to be sure it matches the application, and i think St. Farm computers double check the VIN to make sure it's U.S.; if not, you get a call back.
As of several yrs ago(don't know current status), they would cover properly certified gray cars, but you gotta be honest with them up front. |
Paul (Pcelenta)
Junior Member
Username: Pcelenta
Post Number: 205
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 10:37 am: | |
does that once in a life time exemption on a car ten years or older still exist? If my memory serves me...you had to meet DOT but EPA was waived. |
wm hart (Whart)
Member
Username: Whart
Post Number: 583
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 10:26 am: | |
You are getting good advice here. One other anecdotal: the boxer that was featured at the reading pa show a couple years back (it was a 512 bb, not an "i" if memory serves) never had any of the DOT/EPA work done, and was, to the best of my knowledge, a legal car here. I seem to recall that it was offered for sale, shortly after that show, in FML, and it might be instructive to track that (former) owner down, cause i think he was the original owner of the car, and might know how that was done. agree with frank,though, that merritt should be able to help. Also, in searching title, can you find out who brought the car in originally?(granted, many of these companies may be long gone, but...). |
Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
New member
Username: Kaz
Post Number: 20
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 10:19 am: | |
Frank Parker is correct if the car is illegal.
The insurance should not care if it's a Euro with a title that is legally here(exempt from entry requirement procedures) - BUT, if the car was required to meet DOT/EPA and did not then, yes, you can loose the car. They can take it away from you. I'm familiar of one such case here in Ft. Lauderdale where that happened.
|
JRV (Jrvall)
Junior Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 116
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 10:07 am: | |
Actually you need more info. There were "1 time exemptions" availible back then.
Certians import situations allowed a person to bring in 1 car on what was known as a "1 Time Exemption"....bypassing the dot/epa requirements.
So, do a little more homework, be cautious and diligent, not scared. |
Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
New member
Username: Kaz
Post Number: 19
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 10:05 am: | |
Not sure but I think it's
CFR 19
12.73(e) - Restricted Merchandise, exemptions |
Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member
Username: Parkerfe
Post Number: 1522
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 10:01 am: | |
A title is only a document of ownership, not of legal status. A gray market car that does not have DOT/EPA releases is subject to confiscation by U.S. Customs. If a car has ever been legalized, Richard Merritt at DOT in Washington,DC will have the info on the car. I have checked out several Boxers with him over the last few weeks. He can provide you with a certified copy if needed. And, an insurance carrier CAN deny a claim on a gray market car without the DOT/EPA releases since it is considered illegal! You can not insure an illegal car no more than you can insure an illegal pot stash. If you are considering buying a gray market car, be sure you get the DOT/EPA releases AND confirm they are not forged with Richard Merrit before you give up your cash. And, confirm the serial number with Gerald Roush of the Ferrari Market Letter. During my search for a Boxer I have found several illegal cars claiming DOT/EPA releases that turned out forged and a Boxer with a 400i serial number. Stay away from such cars or risk loosing it. |
Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
New member
Username: Kaz
Post Number: 18
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 10:01 am: | |
Code of Federal Regualtions (CFR Title 19)
I can get the exact part and citation, but not till Monday if you wish...
|
Paul Wehmer (Pwehmer)
New member
Username: Pwehmer
Post Number: 8
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 9:33 am: | |
Thanks Frank, the car is over 20 years old so maybe its a non issue. Is that a law- over 20 years old it's exempt nationwide?
I live in a state where emission testing isn't going to be happening anytime soon. I just didn't want to end up with a car that may have paperwork problems or be a headache to sell. |
Craig Dewey (Craigfl)
Member
Username: Craigfl
Post Number: 489
Registered: 1-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 9:24 am: | |
My 86 euro 328GTS has stickers on the doorsill showing information about who imported it plus other typical DOT info. I happen to have copies of the importation papers but they just came with the paperwork and I didn't specifically ask (or knew to ask) about them.
I do remember reading about "gray market" cars and how to get around the import laws back in the 70s & 80s but don't remember all the details. But I can recall reading that cars made it in and got titles here without the proper procedures of the time... |
Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
New member
Username: Kaz
Post Number: 14
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 8:56 am: | |
Paul -
I have a U.S. Customsbroker License & had the largest practice in the U.S. before selling my company to a subsidery of Fed Ex. The only way to my knowledge to bring in a Euro car and not have it conform to EPA/Dot is to enter the car under a Temporary Importation Bond (TIB). The TIB is usually good for 6 months and can be renewed 4 times not to exceed a period of two years. In theory, one could circumvent the law but I will not discuss that for obvious reasons.
Are you sure the car did not clear DOT/EPA and you just might be missing the paperwork? The Customs Broker is required to keep the docs 5 years after the date of entry. There is a number in Wash DC you can call to see if it is in the fed computer. All you need is the VIN number. What me to see if I can dig it up? |
Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
New member
Username: Kaz
Post Number: 13
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 8:55 am: | |
I agree with Mark -
Insurance should not care as long as you have a title and it's registered.
Also - If the car is over 20 years old it does not have to conform to EPA or DOT. |
Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Junior Member
Username: Me_k
Post Number: 158
Registered: 5-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 8:36 am: | |
I guess it depends on the year car your talking about. It is pretty hard these days, but a few years back you could find adds for"replacement" titles. There were a few states where the laws were loose enough that you basicly sent a tracing of your vin tag and a letter saying you lost the title, and out came a new one, no checking to see if the car deserved one. Also if the car is over 25 in a lot of places that may still work, I've done basically that with motorcycles in NY, not with a new car or bike though. I don't see the insurance company asking to see inport documents, it's registered and you have a tilte, you should be fine there |
Paul Wehmer (Pwehmer)
New member
Username: Pwehmer
Post Number: 7
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 8:03 am: | |
OK- I've searched the achives and don't find the answer. Sorry if if this has been amswered before and I didn't find it. This website is a wealth of info.
How could a euro car be in the US and have a normal title but not have the EPA/DOT paperwork or federalization work done to it?
Could you have insurance claim problems if they found out the car wasn't legal? |