| Author | Message | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Junior Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 60 Registered: 10-2002 |
Anthony, You want some logical reasons as to why people should buy a Ferrari. I shall try to have a go. The factors which could motivate an individual to buy a Ferrari would, of course, vary from person to person. By and large, you can divide the mainstream factors into 3 general categories. The first category concerns the physcial car itself. The second category concerns the snob value in the owning of a Ferrari. The third category concerns the pride of being a Ferrari owner. First, the physical car itself. A Ferrari, any Ferrari, is always a beauty to behold. The exotic shape of a Ferrari stands out from more than a mile off. And it is a beauty not just in its styling, but also in its engineering. You look at the car, and you would say, "WOW, this is it". You hear the sound of the engine, and you would say, "Heavens, it sure pumps blood through your heart." And it handles like a dream under most circumstances. Second, the snob value. In this day and stage, it would be crude, and rude, to suggest that merely because one owns a Ferrari, he is therefore necessarily better than the other guys who do not. But no matter how we might not like it, it exists. And it exists in both directions. It is a fact that Ferrari owners (and owners of other exotic makes that signifiy $$$s) do often get looked at and received in a more special sort of way. On the other end of the spectrum, many of the Ferrari owners do enjoy getting that attention, too. So it takes two to tango. No one likes vulgar show-offs, but provided that one does it in a reasonably modest, unobtrusive, and considerate manner, it is just about the most legitimate and socially acceptable shortcut towards attracting immediate attention and commanding respect. Third, the pride factor. In this real world, we all know that a Ferrari, for most people, is hard to get. And for many people, perhaps even harder to keep. But at the same time, it is also synonymous with excellence. It has a long tradition, and it has a unique marque. It is the alter ego of a never-ending pursuit, a constant pursuit for perfection, for something better than what is conceivable today. It resembles the collective talents and accumulated experience from some of the best motor-engineering minds that the world has ever seen. Class, taste, drive and determination. A Ferrari has it all. It is outstanding, it is distinctive, and it is the first toy that most guys would have dreamt about ever since their earliest childhood days. It is so beautiful, yet so difficult to get. It is so close, yet so distant. To succeed in owning a Ferrari, and then in keeping it, is a milestone achievement in itself. Everybody owes it to himself to achieve something in his lifetime. Ferrari ownership connotes achievement, and therefore touches upon your pride. That is what motivates the human race, this is what makes us tick. And because it costs you to own a Ferrari, not just in terms of money, but also in terms of care and dedication, soon enough it becomes a PASSION for you, and for those around you. So PASSION it is. Forgive me for returning to the same old theme. Agreed? :-) | ||
| Manu (Manu)
Member Username: Manu Post Number: 571 Registered: 2-2002 |
Carl, I'll send you a full email come Monday mate... there's a lot you need to know. BTW guys - I'm with Frank actually - it doesn't take much tweaking at all to get a 993TT up to McLaren/Enzo-esque performance levels but I'm fairly sure that performance is not the only thing we give a damn about. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1575 Registered: 9-2001 |
There are very few cars out there that will stay with a Porsche TT. They are fast, handle well and are built like a tank. If fact, with just a little chip tunung a Porsche TT will outrun an Enzo from 0-100mph . But, they still don't have the passion of a Ferrari. | ||
| Carl Gustaf Landin (Gustaf)
Junior Member Username: Gustaf Post Number: 61 Registered: 9-2001 |
Anthony, Not sure he has broken the news to her yet... I'm guessing he needs her to be in a very good mood first. I'm not sure if he is going to get it now, I suspect he'll leave it until he can actually drive the thing (I've heard that 550s with P-zeros don't mix with the snow and ice that covers Sweden at the moment). So I guess I'll have to wait a while until I can lay may hands on it (if he'll ever let me take it out that is). Manu, How much louder is the tubi system compared with the standard? I really do think that the sound is just too damped. It needs to be above at least 5000 until it really sings but even then it is too low. | ||
| Manu (Manu)
Member Username: Manu Post Number: 568 Registered: 2-2002 |
Carl - I can't wait to see it - Trust me buying the 550 is just about the BEST thing he could do. | ||
| Anthony_Ferrari (Anthony_ferrari)
New member Username: Anthony_ferrari Post Number: 37 Registered: 11-2002 |
Kenneth, I know. And like I said I don't need to be persuaded. What I was asking is, how can someone use LOGIC to persuade someone to by a Ferrari. I guess the answer is you can't because there is no logical reason to buy one. Carl, That's great news! How does your Mum feel about it? | ||
| Carl Gustaf Landin (Gustaf)
Junior Member Username: Gustaf Post Number: 60 Registered: 9-2001 |
Things are looking up! I think he'll end up getting a red 550 Maranello 00' with a Tubi and Fiorano handling package. His arguement was - if you're gonna do it, do it right. | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Junior Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 59 Registered: 10-2002 |
Anthony, You asked about the difference between a Porsche and a Ferrari. When it comes to passion, you cannot just measure it in simple arithmatic terms. Your adopted name is "anthony_ferrari". There you go. You have the answer. :-) Regards and best wishes. | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Junior Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 58 Registered: 10-2002 |
Carl, You said that the turning circles for the Porsche Turbo and C4 were just as bad. My figures for the Ferrari 456's turning circle is 39.3 ft or 11.978 m. My experience of the Porsche 928s is nothing like that at all. My VOLVO V70 T-5 Turbo, which is a family station waggon, has a turning circle of 34.77 ft or 10.6 m. So that makes a difference of somewhere around the 20% region. I wonder whether or not you could enlighten me about the figures for the Porsche cars, if you would, please? | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Junior Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 56 Registered: 10-2002 |
Chris, Just saw your post upon my return to HK, and note your interest in acquiring a 456. I would highly recommend the 456 for daily driving if you can find a decent car park to park the vehicle whilst at work. But there again, I am hardly in any position to say anything convincing, since it appears that I am tempted to move in the opposite direction - i.e getting a Porsche TT or 360 for daily driving. But I do love the 456 and I am going to keep it at all costs. With Ming also getting a 456 which should be delivered by now, in due course, we might be able to find enough Ferrarichat supporters here to start a "HK 456 Club"! :-) | ||
| eli (ali) Latif (Ninja_eli)
New member Username: Ninja_eli Post Number: 21 Registered: 5-2002 |
If I am correct the 996TT in tiptronic guise is no faster than a 355, so I suspect the 360 will take it. In manual guise with X pack, another story altogether! I have to agree with Manu that I think the 993TT is faster than the new 996TT, and I am sure the 993TT S is definitely faster. It is ridiculously fast, and coming up against these cars in both my 355 and my Supra, they left me like I still had the handbrake on (I had to check the handbrake was completely disengaged in the Supra, in the 355 I knew what to expect ha ha). Thing is with the Ferrari's: will they last as long as the Porsches? And then, do you really care if they don't? Most people seem to think a modern Ferrari engine will need a rebuild after 70K miles or so. Does this sound right? | ||
| Carl Gustaf Landin (Gustaf)
Junior Member Username: Gustaf Post Number: 58 Registered: 9-2001 |
I have tried to suggest a used 550 to him. It is the only Ferrari that my mom really is fond of but then that is another step up the latter. I saw the 993 the other day. It is just darn gorgeous on those rims and that slim wing. Just look at the old mans face!   | ||
| Anthony_Ferrari (Anthony_ferrari)
New member Username: Anthony_ferrari Post Number: 25 Registered: 11-2002 |
I've really enjoyed following this thread and I'm amazed how many of you have Porsches aswell as Ferraris. But you haven't answered the question. What can Carl say to his Dad and (probably more importantly) Mum to make them believe that a 355 or 360 makes more sense than a Porsche? Is it just as simple as getting them to test drive one so they become 'infected'? Or are there any real logical reasons why someone should have the Ferrari instead of the Porsche. BTW I don't need to be persuaded I just think with all the knowledge on this board it must be possible to come up with something more than 'Ferraris feel great!'... | ||
| Manu (Manu)
Member Username: Manu Post Number: 559 Registered: 2-2002 |
I'll vouch for the Porsche - the 993TT is a viciously fast car... it's devastatingly quick... It snacks on F355s and will probably take out a 360M too... In fact I've read a test where they put it up against the 996TT and the newer car was actually SLOWER in a straight line. (QUICK ASIDE: Why is it the pedals on the 993s are so STUPIDLY mounted... it's soo uncomfortable - the brake pedal is a bloody joke - I need to lift my heel off the floor to work it) I wouldn't classify it as a boring drive but performance is not the be-all and end-all and that's the bottom line. The F355 even in non-tubi guise is one of the most fabulous sounding cars of all time. It looks wonderful. The 360 is a WEAPON... in the right hands.. Ferraris look wonderful - they're extrovert cars and they get you EMOTIONAL... with the right mods they sound SPECTACULAR in a way no other car can... Does your 993TT get you emotional? Is it entertaining when you're going slowly - NO - but I bet your Ferrari is! | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 315 Registered: 8-2001 |
I have to agree with Art. Before owning my first Ferrari I had owned 3 911's (930 T, 911 3.2 and a 993). I have spent considerable time in a friend's 993 Turbo as well. As Art said the Porsche is just a Porsche. Speed wise the 993 Turbo will eat any 355 or 360. the 0-150 time for the 355 is about 27 seconds, 24 seconds for the 360. The fastest ever recorded time for the 993 was 20.03. The new 996 TT will do it in about 19 seconds while the GT2 will do it in 18 something. But that is hardly the point. The feel of a Ferrari vs. a Porsche is like comparing a Ducati to a Honda bike (I am sure Art can cover this topic). The Honda in some cases may be faster but it's sure not as much fun. I traded in a 1995 993 for a 89 TR and folks thought I was nuts for doing so. I went from a new car (only a year old) to a 7 year old car with older technology (no ABS, stupid motorized seat belts, FIAT switchgear and 16 inch tires). But the bottom line is that the TR was more fun to drive eventhough it was slower in some respects. Don't get me wrong I am a huge Porsche fan but the cars I like they don't build anymore (with the exception of the 996 GT2 and a factory 996 GT3RS racer). Porsche's have become way too civil and foregiving. The 996 will eat a 911S for lunch but it just plain boring to drive as is any 993/996 Porsche compared to the Porsche's of old. The cars that really appealed to me were the 911 RS's of the 70's and the 930 Turbo's. None as fast as the current Porsche lineup but you never saw your hairdresser driving those cars. You had to have huge balls to drive a 930 T fast. And now we have a Porsche SUV. God, I hope Enzo strikes dead anyone at Ferrari that ever contemplates a Ferrari with more than 2 doors. Regards, Jon P. Kofod 1995 F355 Challenge #23 | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Junior Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 99 Registered: 6-2002 |
Turning circle?! Exotics are getting too easy, we need to bring back the cars that have non reverseable gearboxes. Always park uphill, or PUSH your way out of the bank's parking lot! ;) Seriously. If you dream of an F-car at night, nothing but NOTHING else will ever fully satisfy you. There's no explaining it, and there's no logic to it, it's a matter of passion, of the heart, of love! Get both, drive the AWD 911 in the winter :D) Best! Ben. | ||
| john (Johnwto)
New member Username: Johnwto Post Number: 30 Registered: 6-2002 |
hey art, you ever drive a 993tt? i've owned all three and i can tell you that the 355 cannot keep pace with either the 360 or the tt. the tt is a very special car and very fast. you shouldnt be so fast to dismiss it. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 820 Registered: 6-2001 |
The difference between the 355, 360 or the Turbo is that both the Ferraris are about as fast, they hold their resale value. You can drive the Ferrari a lot longer than you think: when you need studded tires, chains, etc., you won't be driving any of them. The Ferrari is a Ferrari. The Porsche is just a car. The difference in driving them is why we owners pay sometimes twice as much as we would for a Porsche. They may not be faster on an absolute scale, but they sure are easier to drive quicker, and feel a lot better when doing it. The bonus is their image, and the looks. Art | ||
| Chris A. (Asianbond)
Junior Member Username: Asianbond Post Number: 102 Registered: 5-2002 |
Now then that's a whole different story. Owning a ferari and wanting to be discrete is quite an oxymoron. I would suggest the 456 then, an older one is quite affordabe now and they are very fast with a much more distingush look. I'm actually looking for a 456 to replace my 993 for a daily driver. The 993 is stock with 272hp which is plenty fast enough to keep up with any exotics in this town. | ||
| Carl Gustaf Landin (Gustaf)
Junior Member Username: Gustaf Post Number: 55 Registered: 9-2001 |
Chris, I'm guessing that the 360 would be a stretch, at least according to my dear mom. I say it is still worth it. She is also against the fact that the Ferrari could be interpreted as a car for show offs. Dad likes his cars to be somewhat discrete but then again he is really into Lamborghinis, never quite understood that. I'm guessing that you live in Hong Kong? I lived there for two years and just love the "mountain" road over victoria island to stanley market, but I'm guessing you are familiar with it if got those kinds of cars. What kind of bhp do you get out of the 993? | ||
| Chris A. (Asianbond)
Junior Member Username: Asianbond Post Number: 100 Registered: 5-2002 |
If you have the opportunity to get into a 360, go for it, don't even bother considering anything else. It does not get any better than that. There is no way any current porsche holds resale values better than the 360, 99's are still going for near listed retail prices. Stephen, I have a 94 993 C2 coupe converted to full turbo specs except for drivetrain, it's the daily driver.  | ||
| Nick Berry (Nickb)
New member Username: Nickb Post Number: 41 Registered: 8-2002 |
I presently own both; 360 Spider and a 996 Cab. As most have written both are fine performance cars. However, for me there is nothing like getting into the F car, starting it and driving it. Compared to the F car the P car is very tame, civilized and not very fun to drive (though it is an excellent performing car). To enjoy a P car requires driving it near its limit. That is not the case with the F car. I could be driving it at 25mph or 100mph and the "rush" is the same. Finally the one MAJOR issue I have with the P car is they are very common today. There are just too many of them on the road. I cannot see paying near a $100,000 for a car which looks like a $40,000 car (Boxster). The P cars mystique which captured many of our fancy when we were young is fast loosing its attraction. Living in S. CA they are a dime a dozen. | ||
| Carl Gustaf Landin (Gustaf)
Junior Member Username: Gustaf Post Number: 54 Registered: 9-2001 |
Another factor that really speaks for the Porsche is that they really hold their value much better than Ferraris do (at least on the Swedish market). We used to have a 993 Carrera 4S 96' which hardly lost any of its worth during the time we had it. But then again it really could be argued that one shouldn't buy cars like these for investments purposes. As far as the turning circle is concerned it is pretty bad on the Porsches as well, especially on those with 4 wheel drive like the turbo and C4. | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Junior Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 54 Registered: 10-2002 |
I agree that the Ferrari is for special days, and that for daily driving the Porsche is going to be more suited. For this reason, I am very much tempted to get a 911 (or 911 Turbo) as well, but I am still pondering over the whys and why-nots. One of the reasons why I would not use the Ferrari for everyday purpose is because of its huge turning circle, which makes it rather troublesome to get around in tight car parks. This means that you will often have to do a few forward and backward manoeuvres before you can get to where you want, and in the process you can easily dent your bumpers if you are in a real hurry. And to tell you the truth, the bumpers on the Ferrari are no real bumpers. They are part of the bodywork. | ||
| Robert (Rjklein4470)
Junior Member Username: Rjklein4470 Post Number: 207 Registered: 3-2002 |
I had a 993 TT, and sold it for a 360. The porsche was a freak of engineering, and I loved driving the car. But it was a $100+K car when I bought it, and people would assume you paid $60K, with a Ferrari you may pay $100+K, but people will assume you paid $200+k. It is not about the money, and I think we should be able to have them all. | ||
| Carl Gustaf Landin (Gustaf)
Junior Member Username: Gustaf Post Number: 53 Registered: 9-2001 |
Thanks you guys for the input. I love this site because you get first hand experiences and not some wannabe's unfounded opinions. I've driven a 360 F1 on a track and I must say that the way it handles really amazed me. The entire car felt like an extension of me instead of something down right scary (like a 911 turbo when pushed hard). The steering is without question the best I have ever tried and the throttle response was just amazing. As you all have pointed out the 911 is more easy to live with for more of the time and the old man really tries to use the car as much as possible. But I still think he is leaning towards a 360 or maybe a 355 with a tubi. All this after he had a little run in with a 360. He was completely stunned by the noise and the poise of the car. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed. | ||
| stephen r chong (Ethans_dad)
Junior Member Username: Ethans_dad Post Number: 120 Registered: 3-2002 |
Great choices Chris! Which 993? Coupe, Cab, Targa! Beautiful 348 too! | ||
| Chris A. (Asianbond)
Junior Member Username: Asianbond Post Number: 99 Registered: 5-2002 |
If you can afford any of these cars I doubt relative service costs would be a prohibitive factor. At this stage of the game it's all about which one you have more passion for. They are all excellent cars. I personally solved the dilemna by having both (348 & 993). | ||
| stephen r chong (Ethans_dad)
Junior Member Username: Ethans_dad Post Number: 117 Registered: 3-2002 |
Carl: I think you have a pretty good read on the differences between the Pcars and Fcars. Is the 993TT his daily driver? Weekend toy? Everytime you approach, open the door, and start a Ferrari, it is a special event. And driving one... forget about it. Nothing matches the pure celebration of driving a Ferrari. Anywhere. Any distance. People, all walks of life stop and stare. This takes some getting used to. Some are uncomfortable with this(myself included) while others love it. To each his/her own. But the simple truth of it is that owning/operating a Ferrari really elevates the daily chore of driving into something really special. Having said that, I think Porsches may very well be the best darn cars on earth. They do everything so well, that they become easy. Things at triple digit speeds seem normal. They in short, are superb daily drivers. Thats what I do. And many other Fcar owners too. Just check out the profiles. If you want something for everyday commuting, then the 993TT is a pretty tough car to beat. Maybe a 996TT might be the more logical upgrade? But if your looking for something special, then the Fcar is the only way to go... | ||
| Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
New member Username: Kaz Post Number: 40 Registered: 11-2002 |
Both are fine examples of performance cars and each has it own characteristics of benefits and drawbacks. I have owned 5 P-cars, most recently a 993 TT and purchased a 355 Spider a few weeks ago. I have always wanted a Ferrari for a variety of reasons. Looks, styling, performance, and rarity. I recall not to long ago waiting at a light in my Turbo and a red 355 pulled up next to me. I could not keep my eyes off of that wonderful car (of course I pretended not to be looking-lol). Love the lines of the 355 over any other car with a 348 being second. F-Cars are in a league of their own and IMHO nothing else comes close. The looks, the sound, the soul of the car�there seems to be a mystic to the whole thing�. The P-cars have lost their styling appeal to me and are commonplace. I live in Florida and a quick trip between Ft. Lauderdale and Miami is about a 20 minute ride. Do that ride and you�ll see at least 10 P-cars. If I drive across America, I might see one F-car. Admittedly, prior to purchasing my F-car I was concerned about high upkeep. That was until I found this site, listened to everything owners said and researched the achieves. The F-car is slightly higher (but not enough to sway my decision) and the only major difference is the belt change service due every 5 years or 30K miles. Here in the U.S. a dealer charges about $7K and reputable independents charge around $4500. Is it worth it? I think so. Of course, this is all opinionated. Is red better than blue? But there is no question that a Ferrari is a Ferrari. Period. | ||
| Randy (Schatten)
Member Username: Schatten Post Number: 494 Registered: 4-2001 |
I can't comment too much on the Ferrari purchase. Its either what you want, or something you don't want - regardless of the price. Regarding pushing the Pcar in the corners, well, from following some of those guys at the track, they take really weird lines. Its totally different driving a true rear engine car, than anything I'm used to (Front engine - RWD), or even different than a mid-engined car. So, all I gotta say is, take it out really really really wide, and expect me waiting for you at the next apex. (sorry for the jab p-guys!) | ||
| Carl Gustaf Landin (Gustaf)
New member Username: Gustaf Post Number: 50 Registered: 9-2001 |
I am the proud son of a car enthusiast. Problem is he's got a thing for Porsches and we live in Sweden (where it gets real cold and you can drive a Pcar for a longer period of the year than a Ferrari). Don't get me wrong, I sincerly love Porsches but they just aren't as filled with soul and passion as a Ferrari is. In short they lack that Maranello magic. We now own a 96' 993 Turbo and that car simply blows me away each time I drive it. The acceleration above 4000 rpm, when the twin turbos start to do their thing, just makes me laugh out loud. I can't help being worried about the weight hanging over the rear axel and therefore I won't really push it through corners. Now to my question: Is it worth it to switch to a F355 or even a 360? They are more expensive, have shorter service intervalls, the service bills are higher and I can't drive them for as long as I can do with the Porsche. I'd appreciate any input so that I can have good arguments when I try to convince my dad. Ciao amici! |