| Author | Message | ||
| Marcus Mayeux (Mmayeux73)
Member Username: Mmayeux73 Post Number: 342 Registered: 4-2002 |
Thanks for the response acw-still learning. | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Intermediate Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 1013 Registered: 7-2001 |
She is now, but she wasn't then! :-0 | ||
| Matt Karson (Squidracing)
Member Username: Squidracing Post Number: 280 Registered: 3-2001 |
Good one pal...LOL! | ||
| Willis Huang (Willis360)
Intermediate Member Username: Willis360 Post Number: 1038 Registered: 8-2001 |
LOL!!  | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 812 Registered: 3-2001 |
Oooops, that one went right over my head. Right Matt!!!!! | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 512 Registered: 7-2002 |
Bob he meant the girl...is she pre '84 aka over 18. | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 811 Registered: 3-2001 |
Matt, I negotiated the price of my car ahead of time based upon the seller's description. Then I flew from Dallas to Ogner in Woodland Hills, CA to take a look. My car was 10 years old when I bought it nearly 4 years ago. So to answer your question, no.... not necessarily pre '84. | ||
| Matt Karson (Squidracing)
Member Username: Squidracing Post Number: 279 Registered: 3-2001 |
Loud and clear pal, loud and clear. Just for the record...we are talking about a 1984 or older model year, right? | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 810 Registered: 3-2001 |
Matt, I can't state it any better than Chris did below.... I wouldn't have chosen my wife based strictly on someone elses PPI and personal viewpoint. I had to see her, feel her, touch her and drive her before making any decisions. I had to raise her bonnet so I could see for myself what was under her hood. But my wife was more than 15 years old... yet still in mint condition. Get it? | ||
| Matt Karson (Squidracing)
Member Username: Squidracing Post Number: 277 Registered: 3-2001 |
Bob, I know its just a difference in our approaches, but I have always been comfortable with the PPI of an authorized dealer. Door dings, scratches, bolster wear, etc., would preclude a car from being 'mint'. Any authorized dealer is capable of noting any and all of these issues, as well as issues that most people have no idea about. As far as taking a car for a test drive, I'm curious...what exactly do you think you would find that the specialists in an authorized dealer could not? This is not a personal attack, just a difference of approaches. I have bought some amazing machines sight unseen, (and then spanked the living s*it out of them on the track). Just my jaded opinion. | ||
| Chris A. (Asianbond)
Junior Member Username: Asianbond Post Number: 110 Registered: 5-2002 |
Any items such as suspension, steering racks, shift linkage, transmission synchros, throttle response, brake feel can be in either poor, acceptable, average or excellent condition. Only a personal test drive will reveal these conditions. The mechanic who does your PPI may have a different standard than you, he may go by the "it's a ten year old car with 30km so it's expected for the suspension to be a bit worn" Darn, would you marry a woman based on someone else doing a PPI on her. But I have to admit that for newer cars like the 360 the chances of worn parts are much less. | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Intermediate Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 1002 Registered: 7-2001 |
I purchased my car sight unseen with the caveat that when I DID see it, if it wasn't as represented, I could walk away. However, I did buy through a dealer which made this possible. I can vouch for BobD's definition of "Mint" having seen his car. :-D | ||
| Hans E. Hansen (4re_gt4)
Member Username: 4re_gt4 Post Number: 659 Registered: 4-2002 |
Bought my lowly 308GT4 w/o test drive, but that's only because a VERY highly respected mechanic did a PPI, and proclaimed (in his Italian accent) "Itsa gooda car". | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 809 Registered: 3-2001 |
***BobD....other than confirming that the car actually exists, what do you feel you would actually gain by taking it for a drive?*** Matt, beyond just driving the car, I want to see it in person. Mint condition is a relative term... and it shouldn't be. Mint to some means, "it's in pretty good shape for a 15 year old car, just a few scratches and a couple of door dings". To me, mint means as new condition. I also want to feel what the car drives like before wiring some guy I've never met before this kind of money. I would absolutely, positively NEVER buy a car sight unseen. On the other hand, I know a lot of people do.... I'm just not one of them. I'll bet there's more than a few guys on FC who have purchased their cars sight unseen... and wish they wouldn't have. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 311 Registered: 4-2002 |
yasir, I am offended by your reply. ;) | ||
| yasir saifullah (Yasir)
New member Username: Yasir Post Number: 5 Registered: 7-2002 |
Hey Guys though i haven't contributed much to this site but i have been reading this board for quite some time now.Well i want to ask the members that are in favor of buying the car unseen/without a test drive to answer few things that would atleast,prevent me from buying a car unseen.I mean when you take it out for a spin you might not like the way seats feel(i would rather sit in the seats then on the seats),the interior might not appeal to you ,the car might not handle or might feel less powerful/torque then anticipated & etc,etc.On top of that the most important thing for me would be to meet the owner before i finalize the deal.Btw i hope i didn't offend anyone with my reply here. Later, yasir | ||
| Chris A. (Asianbond)
Junior Member Username: Asianbond Post Number: 108 Registered: 5-2002 |
A guy had showed up in an old honda civic to buy my 348. I let him test drive it without any hesitation because: first-it's just a car, people treat their ferrari like a treasure yet rarely if ever keep it for a lifetime, so once sold it does not really matter how well you babied it before or how you never took it out in the rain, blah, blah, blah; Second-I love sharing the ferrari experience with anyone who asks, especially for those who have never been in one, because I would really appreciated it if someone had treated me the same way when I was a newbie. Guys, it's only a car, bet you can't imagine how many dealership & factory personnel or previous owners had beated on your car before you bought it. | ||
| acw (Acw)
Junior Member Username: Acw Post Number: 133 Registered: 2-2002 |
Thanks for all the opinions. Yes, it is going to be hard to sell in the current economy. But quite honestly, I'm doing this as a reasonable move in order to invest more. If nobody wants it at a correct price, I'll be quite happy to keep it longer (: Marcus, the 996TT is faster, has more torque and also is less visible. I can take it to most places I'm going, without worrying about the car safety. The 360 has a much more entertaining driving experience, due I think to the engine sound, steering precision and suspension. Also the 360 does not have turbo lag, causing it to be more responsive in some situations. The other issue is that I need a car I can track. I did track my red 360 previously and cannot justify the high maintenance cost. The turbo is a lot cheaper to maintain between track events. It is also a lot cheaper to repair if something happens. ACW | ||
| john beaucher (Spider348)
New member Username: Spider348 Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2002 |
Regarding the test drive issue. I recently purchased a 348 spider from the original owner. He would not allow any test drives prior to sale due to many of the concerns listed in other posts. He took me for an extended drive in the Ferrari. Performed any and all maneuvers requested. Perhaps 1 of the most obsessive/fanatical Ferrari owners I have personally met. Had a thorough PPI performed and all was as represented or better. 4 years ago purchased a 1986 Euro TR. Again no test drive. Had a thorough PPI performed by Gary Bobileff, who certainly knows far more than I about any Ferrari. Ferrari was flawless for the 2 years I owned it. On the flip side, when I sold my 1st Ferrari 308, no test drive due to weather. Snow and salt. Owner purchased and was extremely satisfied. Sold my TR to a fellow club memeber and friend. No issue allowing a test drive. After PPI and purchase, he drove the TR to the DC area. Still owns the TR and pleased. Just another data point. | ||
| Matt Karson (Squidracing)
Member Username: Squidracing Post Number: 276 Registered: 3-2001 |
BobD, I do understand that checking out the car yourself can/would put you at ease, but isn't that more of a non-technical issue? | ||
| Matt Karson (Squidracing)
Member Username: Squidracing Post Number: 275 Registered: 3-2001 |
Patrick, that is an interesting issue you bring up...and believe it or not, I don't have an opinion on it! BobD....other than confirming that the car actually exists, what do you feel you would actually gain by taking it for a drive? | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 792 Registered: 8-2002 |
I have noticed that Ferrari owners and lovers don't drive the cars. They know what they want and usually know what to expect. A Ferrari that leaks oil will usually not so much as raise an eyebrow. A Ford Mustang that leaks usually will make potential owners walk away. Good example of this would be, in this case, my 308 I paid $31K for a 24 year old car that leaks oil, coolant, and water like a sieve, questionable electronics, expensive parts and labor. Yet I knew all of this before I bought it. And I really could have cared less. If I was going to buy an orange 78 dutsun B210 for $500.00, these problems would have made me cringe. It's all perception | ||
| Patrick Pasqualini (Enzo)
Junior Member Username: Enzo Post Number: 94 Registered: 2-2002 |
What happens to all the people that have never driven one but are looking to buy one? Why would they spend money to have a car inspected before they even know if they like the way it drives. | ||
| BobD (Bobd)
Member Username: Bobd Post Number: 805 Registered: 3-2001 |
I'm with Frank (Parker) on this one.... I would NEVER purchase any car sight unseen without a test drive. I don't care WHO did the PPI. If I'm going to spend that kind of money on anything, I want to see it and I want to drive it. If the car is in another city, it's worth a $500 plane ticket IMO... or in my case, burning some frequent flyer miles. | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 507 Registered: 7-2002 |
I can see both sides. I mean when you decide to buy a Ferrari you probably know what you want and know all the details so it is just a matter of finding the car. Also, they usually are well maintained and if it passes a PPI then great. However, if I said I have a '86 cavalier for a fair price you would probably want to see it/drive it. Maybe part of driving it is that it convinces you the car is good. Which is needed on a generic car. On a ferrari, once you have the $$ it is go time baby! | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 791 Registered: 8-2002 |
I purchased my 308 after seeing it one while I was looking at a Lotus Esprit. After the Lotus fell throught I asked about the 308, Came to a price, Went to the bank and got a cashiers check. Never drove it or sat in it. I purchased the boxer as a backetcase with no idea if I would ever get to drive it. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 928 Registered: 2-2001 |
I purchased my 360 without ever even having sat in it. I knew what I wanted. The drive would tell me nothing new. Ernesto | ||
| Matt Karson (Squidracing)
Member Username: Squidracing Post Number: 274 Registered: 3-2001 |
Frank, all due respect, but what are you going to find out during a test drive that an authorized dealer would not? | ||
| Matt Karson (Squidracing)
Member Username: Squidracing Post Number: 273 Registered: 3-2001 |
I have owned 4 Ferraris. The last 3 of them were bought sight unseen. I knew what I wanted, and after a PPI (and road test) by an authorized dealer (with the satisfactory results) I bought them. Negotiations were done before the PPI. If the car failed the PPI, the owner would pay for the PPI, and the deal would be cancelled, or subject to renegotiation...my choice. . I do not think it is necessary for someone to take a car for a test drive in order to buy it. . There are only a couple of exceptions I would make to this: one being if it were someone I knew (ie: club member). . Maybe a way to get around this is - Tell the 'buyer' that negotiation of price, PPI which is paid for buy the 'buyer', then test drive before certified check is cashed. Everyone is covered. . AND TEST DRIVE DOES NOT MEAN FINDING OUT HOW THE CAR RUNS WHILE BEING TRASHED! . That should remove any and all non legitimate 'buyers'. Just my jaded opinion. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1557 Registered: 9-2001 |
I would NEVER buy a car of any type without a test drive. You are going to have a hard enough time selling the thing in this economy as it is. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 308 Registered: 4-2002 |
That's insaine! I would be very angry is someone did that to me. What are these guys problems? | ||
| Brent Gibson (Bgibson)
New member Username: Bgibson Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2002 |
You can't always tell if someone is for real by the way they look or sound. When I went to test drive the Ferrari that I eventually bought I was wearing track pants and a cut off t-shirt. I hadn�t shaved for three days and I had just come from the gym. Luckily the owner still took me seriously despite my appearance and I ended up buying the car. Brent | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 310 Registered: 1-2002 |
Last year, when I sold my 348 TB facatory challenge car, the guy was so excited, he barely looked at it and started negotiating. I told him he could not negotiate until he had a test drive and heard every negative thing about the car I could think of. This was for my protection as well. It was a local club member who I already had a 308 and I knew he could drive well and knew he could afford it. The best way to avoid tire kicking test drivers is to keep the car out of the local papers. Try the market letter, Hemmings or club newsletter. If you do advertise locally, screen the callers carefully. Dave | ||
| Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
New member Username: Kaz Post Number: 47 Registered: 11-2002 |
ACW - I agree with TM328 - I have sold some nice cars in the past and my policy is that we will go for a test drive...but only I drive the car. Sitting shotgun they can get a good feel for the car, how it runs, how it shifts, etc etc. I tell them honestly that I don't want anyone driving the car unless they come a second time to look at it. I work it in thier favor my saying "How would you like to buy this car knowing that several test pilots wanted to see what she could do...". If they come back a second time I know they are a real player and we usually close the deal on the spot. My $.02 | ||
| Marcus Mayeux (Mmayeux73)
Member Username: Mmayeux73 Post Number: 336 Registered: 4-2002 |
I have to ask, is the 996 more fun to drive or easier to drive than a 360? It would seem to me that I would be selling the 996...sorry to hear you have to let her go. | ||
| tm328 (Tm328)
New member Username: Tm328 Post Number: 14 Registered: 4-2002 |
test drive is a must.Clear out the tire kickers with the following 1.10% refundable deposit subject to satisfactory test drive ,viewing and professional inspection | ||
| acw (Acw)
Junior Member Username: Acw Post Number: 132 Registered: 2-2002 |
The key issue is to screen people and to qualify whether or not they are for real. Of course, as a non professional sales person, this is quite challenging. Jim convinced me that having a no test drive policy was too strong. I have since then removed that statement. This said, I don't think test drive are that necessary. I for one bought a few cars without a test drive. I prefer to have cars professionally checked. D.E.S, thanks for the sympathy, but don't worry, I have a long list of toys in mind to replace her (: ACW | ||
| Scott A. B. Collins (Scott)
Junior Member Username: Scott Post Number: 89 Registered: 6-2001 |
Having recently (within the last year) purchased my first Ferrari (and, I guess, my first very serious high performance car), I definitely see the need for a test drive. Maybe not your car (I would buy another 360 without a test drive), but I would never purchase a car that I hadn't driven a like example of. | ||
| Robert (Rjklein4470)
Junior Member Username: Rjklein4470 Post Number: 209 Registered: 3-2002 |
I am not sure a test drive is needed, I sold my 993 TT to a guy in Denver and I live in Indy. He bought the car sight unseen. I gave him a list of all the local people who I trust to inspect the car, he picked one the car was fine and I sent it out to Denver. Two days later he called me and said the car was just as I represented it, and he was estatic. | ||
| Joseph (Mojo)
Junior Member Username: Mojo Post Number: 141 Registered: 9-2002 |
That was an interesting thread D B, That guy is a total loser!! The one guys response about karma was right on. back to the subject good luck selling your car acw. | ||
| D.E.S. (Sickspeed)
New member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 33 Registered: 8-2002 |
D B, does that mean i'm a stroke, too...? (and if it does, that's cool, i understand... we all show our passion in some way, right...?) | ||
| D B (Threesixty)
Junior Member Username: Threesixty Post Number: 98 Registered: 8-2002 |
It may be a little extreme, but look at what this kid does. If I ever got a chance to meet him... http://www.rx7club.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=92194&highlight=ferrari | ||
| D.E.S. (Sickspeed)
New member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 32 Registered: 8-2002 |
SIGH... it's a sad day in Ferrariville... i'm sorry to hear that you're getting rid of her, acw... if i had the money, i'd gladly give her a new home... One day, i took a friend of mine out to Glen Cove, here on Long Island... we went to the Ferrari dealership... i dressed up real nice and pretended like i was really shopping around for a Ferrari... i sat in a few (i actually sat in them...!), the salesman talked to me about them and then i casually inquired, "i'd like to set up an appointment, to come in and test drive one or two..." "Sure", he said, "we'll just need a $5000 deposit, and it has to clear before you can take one out..." Anyone who's truly in the market will have no problem furnishing 5k for you, when they come see the car... -des | ||
| john (Johnwto)
New member Username: Johnwto Post Number: 29 Registered: 6-2002 |
i'm with acw. when i sold my 993tt the guy nearly crashed the car and when i sold my 355 the guy scraped the front on a curb causing about $1000 in paint damage. both these guys were real players for the car but i would not allow anyone to test drive my high perf. cars again. i never asked to test drive my 360 when i bought it. i liked it, knew i wanted it and that was it. do you really need a test drive to buy a 360? | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 300 Registered: 4-2002 |
Acw, what do the people say who are just looking for a drive? Do they act like they are going to buy it then change their mind afetr the drive? What could they be thinking? That seems amazing to me. If they want a ride in a 360, surly they could just go to a local Ferrari club meeting? | ||
| acw (Acw)
Junior Member Username: Acw Post Number: 131 Registered: 2-2002 |
You are correct. This is a bit extreme. I had some issues in the past with some people wasting my time just to get a drive. I'm not sure what the right compromise is but I assume that anyone buying this car will get it checked by a professional anyway. I'll reconsider. Thanks for the input. ACW | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 482 Registered: 7-2002 |
Sorry you are selling it. I have a question and please don't take this the wrong way, but I notice you say you won't allow any test drives. Is this simply to keep tire kickers away or what? I realize you can go testdrive a 360 at a dealer...(maybe if you meet their requirements!), but to not be able to test drive the car I may actually purchase seems absurd. Would you buy a 3 br house without seeing it simply because you know what a 3 br house looks like? No. I agree if it passes the PPI then it should be fine, but do all Ferraris drive identical? Again, just asking not trying to blast you. | ||
| acw (Acw)
Junior Member Username: Acw Post Number: 130 Registered: 2-2002 |
I have just made the tough decision to sell my 360. I'm about to run an ad in ferrarimarketletter but would prefer to sell it to one of you. I have put together a web page about the car. It is http://www.vmgear.com/acw/360/360.html The car is located in the SF bay area. Why am I selling? Well, I drive my 996 TT all the time and would prefer to invest the 360 value. I will definitely buy another Ferrari. Maybe a 420? ACW |