| Author |
Message |
neal (95spiderneal)
Junior Member
Username: 95spiderneal
Post Number: 58
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, December 05, 2002 - 1:58 pm: | |
thanks for all the info. this is fun to think about while there's about 6" snow here in ny.
i understand all of above and this is probably just fantasy anyway but i love open cars esp the lemans sports racers of the 60's and 70's so i'll always want an open car.
Hubert, i was talking dry weght of 2500 lbs. is 3207 wet with driver? i really want to get rid of windshield and pilars for the right look. i agree with everything else you suggest! i would probably have work done in ny area though probably autosport design in mineola.
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Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Member
Username: 95f355c
Post Number: 317
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, December 05, 2002 - 12:32 am: | |
Ditto what Chris said. Doesn't matter what your ability is or how fast you plan to push it. Get a dedicated track car with roll cage and roof.
I race open wheel cars and spec racers, neither of which have a roof and I can tell you that I am not all that comfortable knowing that a roll over could have serious consequences, even with a FIA mandated roll bar.
I hear folks say "...I am not going to be pushing it out there...." Point is you don't have to be pushing it to loose control. Could be someone dumped anti-freeze in a turn or you have a tire blowout. One of the worst wrecks I have seen at an SCCA race was actually on the cool down lap when someone dumped oil on the track.
Never compromise saftey. The guys who get paid $50+ million like Schumi don't do it, why should we do so for a whole lot less (in most cases nothing).
Get a 348/355 and put in a cage or better yet buy a Challenge car.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Good luck!
Regards,
Jon P. Kofod
1995 F355 Challenge #23
1988 M5 BMWCCA Club Racer #44
1998 SCCA Ford Spec Racer #6
2003 SCCA Formula Spec car #6 |
Cmparrf40 (Cmparrf40)
Member
Username: Cmparrf40
Post Number: 499
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 04, 2002 - 10:21 pm: | |
Neal, sell and buy a coupe, or better yet, sell and buy a 348 or 355 challenge car.
I see more people hurt on open track days than I do racing.
You will be money ahead with a challenge car, and you will most likely survive any trouble you might get in.
Do not be cavalier about safety, TS and spyders are nice cars, but they are not designed, nor will they survive at the track!
If your driving ability is modest, you need more protection, not less.
I consider myself to be a modest driver as well, I do not compromise on anything!
Good luck, stay safe, get rid of the open car for the track! |
Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member
Username: Hugh
Post Number: 360
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 04, 2002 - 9:31 pm: | |
Well, let see. 3207 is the spyder stock curb weight, and it's rated at 300hp; the speciale has 312, the c/r is the same, so there must be something going on in the ECU. So, you need to drop 700! lbs and gain 50hp, wow, a lot of work to be done.
To Remove:
top w/ motor
glass
bumper supports (not sure you'd be allowed on the trakc w/out bumpers; some groups wouldn't allow you to run, most require fendered and bumpered cars)
sound deading material (dry ice, alchol, and a chisel)
seats/carpet/paneling/insulation/power window regulators/stereo/speaker/a/c
headlight/headlight motors
spare tire/jack/
exchange wheels for magnesium pieces
steering wheel; replace w/ racing wheel
Don't know if I'd dump the windshield right off, maybe later.
seat belts and associated items
tear out the dash/heater core, replace w/ racing dash, or just tear out heater core
replace exhaust w/ lightweight racing, replace cats w/ straight pipes, headers w/ lightweight tubi pieces
remove all wheel well lining/splashguards, etc.
To be added:
6 point roll cage (chromoly if possible)
racing seats
momo/omp/sparco steering wheel
harness'
wheels (kinesis/speedline/ I'd vote for magnesium volk te37's; as used on 360 modenas in the jgtc racing teams)
brake ducts (you can make these yourself w/ home depot parts and zip ties, seriously)
look into some panther/portefield pads
find the lightest slick out there
ok, so, you could probably get the car under, not sure by how much, 3000 lbs, thats for sure; then again, you meant dry weight of 2500 lbs; i.e. no gas, fluids, driver, etc.? You can get close, want some help?
As for costs? Well, lets see:
roll cage 1000
seats 2000 w/ slider (recaro spg's/omp carbon back seats)
harness' 250
wheel w/ hub 400
wheels 3000
tires 700 set
tubi 3000
straight pipes don't know
headers 3000??
bushings??
speciale/challenge ecu??
brake ducts 50 bucks
and all the removal work would be free.
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neal (95spiderneal)
Junior Member
Username: 95spiderneal
Post Number: 57
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 04, 2002 - 8:21 pm: | |
i get your points but im only an int-adv track day driver and i wont be actually racing just lapping at a moderate speed. i doubt if my ability is anywhere near whats needed to tell difference between open and closed cars.
i could add structural bracing too if necessary since i would want to avoid any stess fractures.
i still think it would look incredible as i've done some imaging of what the result could be.
im just curious if goals of 2500lbs and 350 hp are possible |
Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member
Username: Hugh
Post Number: 359
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 04, 2002 - 7:49 pm: | |
I don't think it's a good idea; structurally you're starting w/ a 'non-ideal' layout namely, an open top car. Now, people do run vintage sunbeams, 1500 fairlady roadsters, etc. in SCCA vinatage, which are open top, but I wouldn't reccomend it; those cars have been seam/stich welded and so on. Getting into acid dipping your Ferrari, stich/seam welding it, etc. will cost big bucks, as will the rest of the work you plan to do.
If you're really got a hankering for a track car, don't know if you must have an Ferrari, but there are a lot of 'prepped' cars for sale, most of which come w/ sets and sets of spares and when said and done will, more than likely, cost less that it would to convert your 348 into a track car.
Check out:
www.grmonline.com check the classifieds;
http://www.improvedtouring.com/Classifieds/#IT%20Race%20Cars there's a bargain to be had there too.
Considering the cost of converting a street car to a track car, I'd seriously consider buying a 'turn-key' car, IMO. As far as resale, you'd be stuck w/ it, unless, you found someone with an exact need for your car, otherwise you'd, more than likely, take a big hit on resale/overall worth. |
JRV (Jrvall)
Member
Username: Jrvall
Post Number: 272
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 04, 2002 - 7:35 pm: | |
The factory raced "B's" for a reason.
Even the early B's had frame cracking problems when driven hard. |
neal (95spiderneal)
Junior Member
Username: 95spiderneal
Post Number: 56
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 04, 2002 - 6:36 pm: | |
maybe i just miss the track but ive been dreaming of converting my 348 spider into a track car. do you guys think my goals are reasonable or pure fantasy
weight reduction to under 2500lbs
remove bumpers, lites, strip trunk, gut interior, remove glass including entire windshield and replace with low 250tr style plexiglass wraparound shield, remove rear bumper and expose engine suspension etc similar to 70's lemans cars like pcar 917.
extra hp to 350: remove all emisions, improve cooling, etc
susp: lower, hard bushings ets
brakes: cooling ducts from front grill, brembo
i think this would be a wild ton of fun on track. i dont care about loss value, but do you think it would be worth it? |
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