| Author | Message | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1584 Registered: 9-2001 |
Howie, my point was that the internet often brings info on cars available that before only a well seasoned broker would know of. My Boxer was already on ebay for sale before anyone pointed it out to me. By the way, thanks for the heads up ! | ||
| Howie/ExoticAutoBrokers.com (Brokerofexotics)
Member Username: Brokerofexotics Post Number: 278 Registered: 11-2001 |
Frank, I don't think brokers are a dying breed at all. As a matter of fact, my organization is consistantly posting better earnings with each passing quarter. (I make it sound like we're a public company).  By the way, who gave you the heads up about your current 512 bbi? | ||
| Scott Stokes (Desert_trojan)
New member Username: Desert_trojan Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2002 |
Does anyone have any experience with "TheCarExperience.com"? Good or bad? | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1983 Registered: 9-2001 |
Dave, thanks I know - I was talking exotics in general | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 319 Registered: 1-2002 |
TomD, Seinfeld is a Porsche guy. Will, I agree. I have always found it easier to get a fair price from a person or dealer who has the title in hand. A local guy bought a car from a broker and a problem arose in transit. Supposedly the broker had already paid the owner, so no recourse. After a lot of legal bills, he took possesion of the car and it was so bad, he immediately sold it for a big loss to a local dealer. When I am asking about a car, which is often, the first thing I want to know is if they have clear title. Dave | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1577 Registered: 9-2001 |
With the internet auto brokers are becoming a dying breed. I know when I was looking for my Boxer I contacted several to help find one for me. Every car they came up with was one I had already found and ruled out. I was even able to find Boxers out there that was not for sale on various web sites and in magazine articles that the brokers couldn't find. If you are looking for a particular model, run an ad in the FML and FCA Newsletter and start e-mailing dealers ect.. You will find the car of your dreams and save the broker's commission for service. | ||
| Raleigh Smith (288gto)
New member Username: 288gto Post Number: 49 Registered: 10-2002 |
Jonathan Peck is the man I suggest. I have been back and forth with my wife and him trying for a Ferrari and he has been patient the whole time. He is always friendly and informative. He can also find you a great car at a great price. He has spent hours wiping my drool off of his cars and even started them for me just so I could get my fix of that glorious F car sound. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 373 Registered: 1-2002 |
WMontgomery- Seinfeld owns the first and last 993's made. | ||
| WMontgomery (Fiorano1999)
Junior Member Username: Fiorano1999 Post Number: 53 Registered: 11-2002 |
Letterman also owns an older model that was in Cavallino or Prancing Horse a bit ago. Don't think Leno has F. Seinfeld is building a great multi-floor garage for his Porsche collection. Last I heard he owned air cooled 911 SN first and SN last. Will | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 454 Registered: 5-2002 |
I guess that somebody would have to ask Tom Yang about Dave Letterman himself about his Ferraris. Tom is an audio tech on Dave's show. From what I understand, Dave owns a Dino in California. Tom is documenting the restoration of an older Ferrari on his web site. I would imagine the Tom could verify if he and Dave sit around "bench racing" and swapping Ferrari info. As for Jay Leno, he was a car guy LONG before he was a celebrity. | ||
| WMontgomery (Fiorano1999)
Junior Member Username: Fiorano1999 Post Number: 52 Registered: 11-2002 |
Seinfeld kicks tires. I had one broker experience. Never again. Enough said. Ask the broker how many cars he has on his showroom floor and actually owns versus the famous consigment process. See if he'll take your trade or suggest you sell it yourself although he will offer to run it through his books to save you tax on the price offset. Ask what you do when you have a problem and where will he be when something goes awry? I'd rather buy from someone who has made a real investment with bricks and mortar and a real shop and staff and...you get the idea...not fly by night. Not someone who decided today to be a Ferrari expert/broker, start a website, place a few ads and can fly away tomorrow night. "Place you requirements here and I'll find the perfect car for you." Also, I feel much more comfortable buying a used car from a recognized dealer with a written warranty, reputation and assets of value so I can sue them if I ever feel I have been wronged. Sorry it has come to that and maybe it is unattractive logic, but real in this world. Suing someone who has nothing but cars on consigment and a computer terminal is kind of fruitless, isn't it? Want to go to a doctor who works out of a van in a parking lot or a lawyer who meets you in a Motel 6 room? No facilities, no staff. I think Wmhart uses someone because that someone is a close personal friend of his not because he is uninformed, lazy or won't kick a tire. He has a good resource to second guess his decisions which is invaluable. None of my busuness, ask him. Someone who just wants to sell something, anything, well - I'd be cautious. No different than a standard used car salesman - don't sell, don't get paid. When is judgment blurred? One difference I can see are the guys who are connected with the true high end collector cars or F1 cars. A little different that 3x8's Will | ||
| Dr. I. M. Ibrahim (Coachi)
Junior Member Username: Coachi Post Number: 143 Registered: 5-2002 |
Start by reading all the ads in the Ferrari Market letter.. the call a few people who are close by where you live...go look, see for yourself..it works. I don't like too many middle men between me and the car...it ads to the price | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1980 Registered: 9-2001 |
what about letterman, seinfeld, ralph lauren - you think they are out kicking tires on their cars | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 317 Registered: 1-2002 |
Overall, I think a higher percentae of Ferrari owners are gearheads than other performance cars. Unfortunately, there are many who just want to be seen in a Ferrari. I had a potential buyer once who wanted to drive by the local high school to show off to the teenage girls who were about half his age! Ugh. Dave | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1971 Registered: 9-2001 |
Arlie you have only broad paint brushes in your arsenal. you want to paint everyone with the same brush. All I am saying is not everyone who uses a broker is a non-enthusist and a poser. For example Jim and Whart on this site both use brokers/personal car locators to find cars for them because they are too busy with other things. Furthermore is Jim not an enthusist because he is the patron paying for someone to restore his car - I don't think so | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 452 Registered: 5-2002 |
So if I pay someone to locate a Ferrari for me, that means I am just as much a Ferrari enthusiast as a Ferrari owner who locates his own car, buys and transports it himself, pulls the engine and rebuilds it, and then restores the rest of the car himself? Are you saying that both people are equal enthusiasts? I hardly think so. One person simply let his checkbook do the work. The other person is much more of a knowledgeable enthusiast who is much more skilled in all facets of the Ferrari world. If a billionaire goes out and buys himself a surplus Russian space rocket, does that make him an astrophysicist? Hey, one of those kids from the Back Street Boys was trying to buy himself a seat aboard the Russian space station. I guess that makes him as good an astronaut as John Glenn or Neil Armstrong?????? | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1970 Registered: 9-2001 |
arlie, there are just as many celebrity vette owners. All I am trying to say is just because some one uses a broker does it mean they are not an enthusist? There is a theory that if I make $500 an hour then why spend 10 hours not working to save $1,000. Just pay someone to do it. doesn't mean you don't care about it. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 451 Registered: 5-2002 |
Well Todd, nobody really cares, because none of the comments on this board will mean anything to anybody outside of the Ferrari world. People will still starve in Africa. And the salmon will still swim up river regardless of any comment on this board. Life goes on. My point from the beginning is that car brokers are not really needed by the true Ferrari enthusiast because the true enthusiast will make the time to educate himself and seek out the desired automobile without the need for a broker. If that was not the case, why would there be a need for Hemmings Motor News, Cars & Parts Magazine, dozens of internet for-sale sites, classified ad sections in every newspaper in the country etc, etc? Not to mention DOZENS and DOZENS of EXTREMELY high dollar car auctions all across the country every year. | ||
| Todd Gieger (Todd328gts)
Member Username: Todd328gts Post Number: 276 Registered: 6-2002 |
Who cares... | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 450 Registered: 5-2002 |
I am not even a serious student of Ferraridom, but several prominent Ferrari owner names come to mind. Michael Jordan, Charlie Sheen, Ali McGraw, Roman Polanski, etc. Do you actually think any of those people are REAL car enthusiasts? How many rich celebrities run out and buy their wife a Ferrari to drive? Did their wives suddenly become car buffs? One prominent name comes to mind: Nicole Simpson. The now dead wife of O.J. Simpson who was driving around in a Ferrari paid for by O.J. the sports star. I never knew O.J. and his wife were such big Ferrari fans. Were they in the process of doing a 30K service on her Ferrari at her condo the night that she was murdered by "Jamaican drug dealers"????????? | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1969 Registered: 9-2001 |
Arlie your view of this is akin to those on this site who think non-owners should not be allowed to post i.e if you don't own how can you have the passion or understanding | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1968 Registered: 9-2001 |
I know plenty of guys on Staten island driving new vettes who don't know the diff between a piston and fuzzy dice | ||
| John Delvac (Johndelvac)
Junior Member Username: Johndelvac Post Number: 164 Registered: 11-2001 |
There is a huge number of gold-chain sports figures in Atlanta with Ferraris. Some have the ugliest chrome wheels on them too. Well, that's besides the point. They don't know jack about cars. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1967 Registered: 9-2001 |
and none of them ever collected a 427 big block - come on. Its the blue collar guys driving around in 40 year old vettes worth 60 to 100k. When ever you have something that is a status symbol (ferrari, vette etc) you will have owners that don't know their ass from their elbow but it seems to me you are always out to lump f-car owners in to the negative catagory. | ||
| John Delvac (Johndelvac)
Junior Member Username: Johndelvac Post Number: 163 Registered: 11-2001 |
What Horsefly said! | ||
| John Delvac (Johndelvac)
Junior Member Username: Johndelvac Post Number: 162 Registered: 11-2001 |
4% ($2k) was the deal on mine. Well worth it to me for the piece of mind. With what I know now, I could have saved the money. But how can you expect someone without a Ferrari already to really learn as much as the need-to-know owner of one? It was after gettig my car that I learned all of the right folks to talk to. I'm just glad I did not buy from a dealer. Now that's a premium I'd be afraid of (being a poor guy like me). Like I said, anyone who found this website can certainly find enough good info to buy a 308 or TR. The price is another matter. The values you see on FC are for normal cars. If you insist on a 98% or higher car like me, expect to pay the premium. Another real good start for a 1st time buyer would be to join The/A Ferrari Club and get to know folks besides the local dealer. That's what Mitchel did. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 447 Registered: 5-2002 |
TomD, Sorry but I DO think that the majority of Ferrari buyers are wealthy people who really don't know much about what they are buying. And I DON'T think the same applies to other marques like Corvette. I think the average Corvette (or other sports car) buyer knows alot more about their cars than new Ferrari buyers. How many people with BIG money walk into a Ferrari dealership and buy a new Ferrari knowing all the technical details about the engine, transmission, suspension handling characteristics, etc. I'll bet most of the new buyers are wealthy folks who simply want the flashiest, most well known sports car in the world. Get realistic. How many movie stars, rock and roll stars, sports celebrities, and rich business people actually sit around reading Road & Track or Forza magazine long enough to cultivate the automotive knowledge of a true enthusiast? The history of Ferrari owners is FILLED with the names of internationally known people, and the vast majority of them wouldn't know the difference between a piston and a camshaft! | ||
| Matt Karson (Squidracing)
Member Username: Squidracing Post Number: 284 Registered: 3-2001 |
Regarding PPI's, we just had an interesting conversation about that in a recent thread. . Newcomer - PPI Education. . I am sorry to see you guys who have spent thousands of dollars on PPI's on cars which are not as represented. There is another approach which will weed out the good from the bad. . My opinion - for what its worth - brokers do not work for free. I find it hard to believe that using a brokers services won't end up costing you money in the end. I have bought several Ferraris', and getting the right price was never a problem. 16 years of Wall Street trading has reinforced the idea that no one will sell anything for less than they can just because they like someone. . Just my jaded opinion. | ||
| John Delvac (Johndelvac)
Junior Member Username: Johndelvac Post Number: 161 Registered: 11-2001 |
A person new to Ferrari circles would be a fool not to buy with a knowledgable broker. If you are on this site already, you probably can get all the info you need to check out most newer Ferrari's OK. However, when looking at a Daytona or older, one better know what they are looking at. Steve Algrim was my broker. I probably would not have a Ferrari if not for his knowledge. | ||
| Howie/ExoticAutoBrokers.com (Brokerofexotics)
Member Username: Brokerofexotics Post Number: 277 Registered: 11-2001 |
Mitchel, U still da man. | ||
| Mitchel DeFrancis (4re308)
Member Username: 4re308 Post Number: 734 Registered: 6-2001 |
Well said Howie! I completely agree. There are some very knowledgable brokers. Some brokers are marque specific, that is important when buying a Ferrari. They know of cars that are not advertised locally or nationally, and you have a greater chance of finding exactly what you want. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1962 Registered: 9-2001 |
Arlie Certainly there are people like you describe but they are not specific to ferraris. Corvettes have these types of buyers too. I think you are unfairly catagorizing a majority when it really relates to the minority. Look at Whart on this board - he is a ferrari nut but uses a broker to find his cars | ||
| martin J weiner,M.D. (Mw360)
Member Username: Mw360 Post Number: 705 Registered: 5-2001 |
Frank L, Enjoy the anticipation! Happy for you. | ||
| Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
Junior Member Username: Kaz Post Number: 55 Registered: 11-2002 |
Howie - Monday before Christmas... Have not told anyone about it...Gonna tie a big red ribbon around it | ||
| Howie/ExoticAutoBrokers.com (Brokerofexotics)
Member Username: Brokerofexotics Post Number: 271 Registered: 11-2001 |
Bruce and Frank - Thank you for your kind words! (Frank L - did you take delivery yet????? ) Howie | ||
| Jean-Louis (Jlm348)
New member Username: Jlm348 Post Number: 14 Registered: 11-2002 |
I spent form 11-01 to 7-02 looking for a 348. I saw a lot of them before I made my purchase and I did spend money doing inspections, but in the end I was a very happy camper. Sometimes you can not put a price on enjoying a hobby. Bottom line if you or a broker finds the car at the right price jump on it. Just be patient. There are a lot of 348's out there when you find the one for you you will know it. | ||
| Todd Gieger (Todd328gts)
Member Username: Todd328gts Post Number: 273 Registered: 6-2002 |
I'll second Jim's post: This is a no brainer...call Martin in Miami www.4ferrari.com This is right in his sweet spot too (348) | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Intermediate Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 1239 Registered: 4-2002 |
jim schad another one to your broker list is howie.. i know him well, a great guy, layed back, very trusting and knowledgable... please add him to your "broker list" also thanks, bruce | ||
| Frank K Lipinski (Kaz)
Junior Member Username: Kaz Post Number: 54 Registered: 11-2002 |
Hi Frank & Welcome! I just bought my first F-Car about 3 weeks ago. If I had to do it over again I would defenitely go with a broker who is a member of this site. It took me over 3 months to find the right car. I no longer have to work and have time on my hands. I literally dedicated 7 days a week searching the net, magazines, e-bay you name it. I spent over $2K in PPI's for cars that I did not buy. Cars that a broker had probablly already known about and would have steered me away. That was a 2K mistake on my part. Brokers provide a valuable turnkey service. They know these cars, what to look for, what's good, what's bad and are on your side of the deal. I have come to know Howie & Martin (after the fact) and both are an excellent professionals that I hold in high regard. If I buy a preowned F-car in the future, they will have my business. Good choice on the 348 | ||
| Howie/ExoticAutoBrokers.com (Brokerofexotics)
Member Username: Brokerofexotics Post Number: 268 Registered: 11-2001 |
! | ||
| Howie/ExoticAutoBrokers.com (Brokerofexotics)
Member Username: Brokerofexotics Post Number: 267 Registered: 11-2001 |
Wade - It's good to see you here! | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 444 Registered: 5-2002 |
"Furthemore, most people interested in purchasing an exotic do not have the time to contact all the dealers and private sellers. But isn't it amazing that they DO have time to drive their stable of classic cars, fly off to the Bahamas six or seven times a year, spend their evenings attending ritzy dinner partys, etc. Face it. Most wealthy folks want it NOW; RIGHT NOW, and don't want to go to the time and effort to become a TRUE BLUE enthusiast. They can pay somebody else to do it for them! It's not that they don't have the time or can't make the time, it's usually that they don't WANT to go to the effort to actually become a Ferrari (or other car) enthusiast. They just want to "pose". A friend of mine is a doctor in solo practice and he works 80 hours or more each week. And he still MAKES the time to mow his lawn, do his own oil changes, pursue other hobbies, etc. I think it is safe to say that most NEW Ferraris are sold to wealthy "posers" and that most older Ferraris are owned by TRUE enthusiasts. | ||
| Wade R Nunez (308nut)
New member Username: 308nut Post Number: 28 Registered: 7-2002 |
Frank, There is no comfortable way to make it easier I have been brokering cars for several years now and I know Howard has and I'm sure a few others that post here are. Most of the guys who are public on a forum that talk about their work are trust worthy. Ask some questions and find someone that you are at ease with. Wade www.fortunemotors.com | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 529 Registered: 7-2002 |
I agree with Horsefly about learning all you can, but sometimes it is worth it to let somebody else help you out. Like I said, use somebody you trust not someone you found on the internet. The guys here will not do you wrong. I mean if they do they are crapping in their own beds. I would personally recommend 3 guys for sure off the board who have helped me a ton with no strings attached. They are: Jonathan Peck in Dallas Website: http://www.AutoLeaseAdvantage.com Email: [email protected] martin in Miami www.4ferrari.com Mike Weaver in Dallas www.exoticcarworld.com | ||
| Howie/ExoticAutoBrokers.com (Brokerofexotics)
Member Username: Brokerofexotics Post Number: 265 Registered: 11-2001 |
"Isn't going to a broker and trying to buy a Ferrari and admitting you don't know much about them, sort of like walking into a poker game with cash hanging out of your pockets and saying, I don't know much about this game but it sure looks fun. Can I play too?" ==== Not at all! In fact, if the broker is well liked in the industry and well connected, he can obtain the same car at a lower price than a regular retail buyer could. Throw in solid purchasing advice, the arrangement of a PPI, transport, logisitics, negotiations, financing etc., it makes a world of sense to use a broker even if you are "exotic car educated". Furthemore, most people interested in purchasing an exotic do not have the time to contact all the dealers and private sellers. That's another reason why brokers exist. Frank - There should be NO NEED to place a deposit UNTIL a car is located/secured. Furthermore, the deposit should be refundable should the PPI reveal problems with the car. Just be careful who you choose. Good luck, Frank. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 443 Registered: 5-2002 |
Isn't going to a broker and trying to buy a Ferrari and admitting you don't know much about them, sort of like walking into a poker game with cash hanging out of your pockets and saying, "I don't know much about this game but it sure looks fun. Can I play too?" I would do everything that I could to educate myself so that I WOULD know as much as possible about what I was trying to buy. Instead of paying a broker a finders fee, why not buy some books and manuals, research everything you can about the models that you are interested in, dig through the archives of Ferrarichat, etc. No excuse for being uneducated. Same goes for refrigerators, toasters, houses, or cars. Isn't there a name for uneducated Ferrari owners? Aren't they called "posers"? In other words, not TRUE enthusiasts. | ||
| Fred (I Luv 4REs) (Iluv4res)
Junior Member Username: Iluv4res Post Number: 249 Registered: 8-2002 |
Stay away from dealers who want an up-front deposit. There are several, search the archives, who won't return the deposit! Usually, they don't have the car. Use someone trustworthy. Get a PPI. | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 528 Registered: 7-2002 |
I would use somebody I trust rather somebody geographically close. Seriously there are probably 5 guys on here who broker cars and know their stuff and shoot straight with you. If you dont' want to have to learn EVERYTHING in the world about a particular car and are willing to let them work for you they will not steer you wrong. But I would say be ready to buy cause they can/will find it for you pretty quickly. | ||
| Jonathan Peck (Jonathanp)
New member Username: Jonathanp Post Number: 18 Registered: 7-2002 |
Mr. Jaloma, Check your email.. Jonathan Peck | ||
| Frank Jaloma (Carmel348ts)
New member Username: Carmel348ts Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2002 |
Pardon if this is a duplicate post. Original received an internet error. I'm collecting WAY too much information for my wife's comfort level. But a promise is a promise! I know cars pretty well, but I don't know Ferraris. I'm considering using a local broker to aide me in locating a 348 of my likeing. Understanding there are "profits" to deal with, but from the view point of locating the car, making arrangements for PPI, transportation etc, it might make sense. Being a rookie Ferrari buyer, let me ask you this, What are the pro and cons for using a broker to locate and purchase an F-car? What should I look for? Good & bad. Below is the website of a local broker near my home. This is someone I'm considering using. http://ooley-blackburn.com/ Frank |