| Author | Message | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 389 Registered: 1-2002 |
Dom- I hear you, sorry it took me this long to reply, but I hadn't checked in on this thread for a while. Anyway, oh well, idealism I guess. | ||
| Jean-Louis (Jlm348)
New member Username: Jlm348 Post Number: 21 Registered: 11-2002 |
I started working at 13 in order to buy a porsche when I was 16. I had set myself goals of having a porsche at 16, Lotus at 18, Ferrari at 21 and a Lamborguini at 25. At 16, after 3 years of hard work, I paid about 18,000 for a used 928S. I worked to basically maintain it and pay the $400.00 per month insurance. I owned it about 2 years when it was stolen. I then bought a 1978 honda accord for about $700 saved money up for a couple of months and bought a 86 Lotus Esprit Turbo. By having both cars my insurance was actually cheaper, about $280 per month for both cars. However the repairs on the Lotus were North of $20,000 in the 3 years that I owned it. It put me in the poor house. I sold it at a huge (financial) loss. I then bought a couple of MBZ in the 6-18K range and started investing in property. It was finally about another 6 years before I could afford another sports car. I did not hit my Fer and Lam goal I am now 27 and recently purchased a 348 Spider. I still have my MBZ for everyday driving and take the 348 out o the weekends. I have realized that when I was younger cars were everthing for me, so it did not matter if I lived in a nice place or ate at the best restaurants. And as I grew older my priorities changed. But I did go back to my dream of owning a Ferrari. (Even if I was a little late) | ||
| Ben Bauman (Fencewatcher)
New member Username: Fencewatcher Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2002 |
I'd go with #2... if my wife would agree! Seriously, I wish I'd bought a 308 when I was single instead of a Corvette! Of course, then I probably wouldn't have been single for so long! | ||
| Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
New member Username: Pupz308 Post Number: 26 Registered: 10-2002 |
When I graduated, I was very, very fortunate to have gotten a job with a fairly stronger salary than most of my peers. Like some have stated, I was quite interested in *Scaling* up my expenditures to be in line with my salary. Since I'm young and naive, I really had no idea what was appropriate to spend on rent, car payment, etc. So, I discovered this concept called budget allocation. I figured that it made sense that, for the most common range of salary/income, there are some pretty well-established figures about what one can afford in various areas of their life. I was trying to figure out primarily how much of a house I could reasonably afford, and how much of a car I could afford. I wouldn't do a Ferrari if it was significantly over the percentage one should allocate towards a car payment. So, off I went trying to come up with some percentages, and I found some good ones in Money magazine (as I recall). Here's what I came up with. This is for 23 years, renting, single, no kids. I think it's accurate for a 50k to 100k salary range, and perhaps outside the range as well. ** Ideal Budget Allocation ** ** LIVING EXPENSES: 26% Food, Personal Care, Clothing, Doctors, Dentists, Rx Drugs, Electricity & Fuel, Entertainment, Hobbies, Water, Newspapers, Books, Magazines, Telephone, Club Dues, Cable & Internet, Day Care, Gasoline, Private School Tuition, Parking, Other ** SAVINGS AND INVESTMENT: 15% 401(k), Stocks & Bonds, IRA, College Savings, Mutual Funds, Other Savings ** INSURANCE: 4% Life, Auto, Health, Homeowner, Disability, Other ** TAXES: 25% Federal Income Taxes, FICA Withholding, State Income Taxes, Medicare Withholding, Local & Property, Taxes ** HOUSING: 20% Mortgage Payment or Rent ** AUTO LOANS AND OTHER DEBT: 10% Personal Loans, Credit Card, Child Support & Alimony, Auto Loans, Other ALL OF THESE ARE VALUES ARE EXPRESSED AS PERCENTAGE OF **GROSS** INCOME (E.g. salary), BEFORE TAXES. ****************** So there are a number of conclusions that I've drawn. First off, the amount of car you can reasonably afford is related to your other debt. Credit cards, student loans, and other loans. I've read that "financial planners say a good rule of thumb is to plan on spending 10 to 15 percent of your total monthly budget on all automotive expenses." This is good advice I believe. I've also read that "you can afford a house that is 3 times your yearly salary and a car that is 1/3 of your yearly salary." Two other points that lenders pay attention to: 1. Annual housing costs, including mortgage, taxes, etc., do not exceed 31%-32% of your gross annual income (yearly salary) 2. Annual payments for total indebitness (total debt payments) do not exceed 37%-40% of your gross annual income. So, this is the best objective advice I've been able to find. With it, and say, 80k to 90k annual salary, I've determined that a 30k car (and associated payments and maintenance) over 5 years is a reasonable venture. That translates to a very nice 308. As somebody else pointed out, I don't want to lie awake at night worrying about payments, nor do I want to upset the balance / scale of the other areas (savings, insurance, housing.) I got what I can afford. As the salary goes up, so too can other things scale up. On 50k with a mortgage, I would respectfully offer that you can pretty much forget about Ferrari ownership unless again you want to sacrifice some of these other areas and change the balance around. By the same reasoning, a 328, 355, or 512TR is similarly out of my reach. Hope this helps some F-chatters--it certainly has been invaluable to me. Best, Mike Procopio | ||
| Robert McNair (Rrm)
Junior Member Username: Rrm Post Number: 176 Registered: 5-2002 |
I consider myself fortunate in the fact that my Ferrari goal is a 308. Some of the $ figures I have seen in this thread amaze me 8-10k a month for a mortgage and taxes wow! | ||
| Joel Belser (Driver)
New member Username: Driver Post Number: 23 Registered: 9-2002 |
There is a saying, "even a turtle has to stick his neck out to get anywhere." And we all have our comfort zones in terms of financial security. I put about 7500 miles/year on my Ferrari, and I know that will bring bills along with the smiles. You have to be able to live with your decision...but then again, it's ONLY money. The worst that could happen is that you have to sell the car, and maybe take a bath in the process. Could be worse. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3732 Registered: 2-2001 |
Ric, I think you summed it up pretty well. | ||
| Ricky Nardis (Rickyn_f355)
Junior Member Username: Rickyn_f355 Post Number: 115 Registered: 8-2002 |
I guess it depends on were you live but I couldnt see owning a $100,000 car and making less than $500,000 gross/year while owning a home in a premium area. Mortgage plus taxes on a nice home in Westchester NY is going to run at least $8,000 to $10,000 a month right off of the bat....then add in all the other bills plus spending money and $20,000 a month net isn't exactly alot...that being said my best friend died from cancer at 26 yrs old in april, so sometimes you have to say to hell with being rational and live a little...it's all about indifference curves!!! | ||
| Ric Rainbolt (Ricrain)
Member Username: Ricrain Post Number: 300 Registered: 2-2002 |
If you're strething financially to buy a Ferrari, be prepared for the fact that said Ferrari may possibly need thousands of dollars of service. No matter how good a PPI you have, things can still happen. Based on your salary ($50K). I suggest you start smaller (308 QV, 328). Even if you do your own service, parts for TR's are quite expensive. My "60K service", which turned, sadly, into an full engine rebuild has cost over $7500 in parts alone. Someone who has been in the exotic business a long time told me that one of the most common problems he sees is someone buying their first exotic, and not being able to afford to operate it. You have to figure that with depreciation, insurance and all the stuff, that normal "bland" cars are costing $0.35/mile, then pretty much any Ferrari is going to probably run $0.70-$1.00 per mile to operate. In my case, it's probably actually more than that due to the track expenses. I don't want to scare you away from an exotic, but please don't make the mistake of assuming that the cost ends at the monthly payment plus insurance. | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
Member Username: Bahiaau Post Number: 419 Registered: 12-2001 |
Clark I agree you have to live a little, but everything is a trade off. Like Dave I have a firm percentage point that I won't budge on. I like to keep all of my possessions under that number(including house, cars, everything material). As my net worth increases, so do my toys and possessions. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 327 Registered: 4-2002 |
A years gross sounds high to me as well. However, I admit, if I only made 50k a year I might feel differently as I would basically have to forget about ever owning anything I truly wanted. I guess it is all about what makes you the most happy. Having a Ferrari in your garage, but not being able to drive it due to a repair you can't pay for, or laying awake at night worried about money does not sound fun to me at all. I doubt that sounds like a good idea to anyone. However, lots of people choose this rout. Why? Maybe the same reason lots of people are over 300lbs in weight. They have no self control? Or is it that most of these people confuse being ABLE to GET something to being able to AFFORD something? Remember, just because you can convince a bank / leasing company that you can make the payments, doesn't mean you should. | ||
| Clark Driggers (Clark)
Junior Member Username: Clark Post Number: 77 Registered: 11-2001 |
Wife and family always come first after that enjoy your other passions. I see death every day at work and alot of it comes unexpected. You only live once and you can't take any of it with you. So why not enjoy some things without having to save for 100%. It always sounds crazy to someone who is not even 30 but bad things can happen at any time. Live a little | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 333 Registered: 1-2002 |
When it comes to toys, I always look at the price in terms of how long does it take to earn the money and percentage of my net worth. I have points where I am comfortable and I'm sure other people's points would be different. Some people spend half their anual income on a leased, pricey SUV as a daily transport, but only think of the payments. Personally, as much as I enjoy Ferraris, there is no way I would spend a year's gross income on one, unless I was retired with 8 figures and living on social security! Dave | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 326 Registered: 4-2002 |
Good advice Joel. Interesting point on never owning a car over one years earnings. What about savings? If someone making the said 50k a year saved for 5 years he / she could "afford" a 80k car. Would you still consider this to be something foolish? If that is the case, we are telling everyone out of the top income bracket that no matter how much you save, you should never buy your dream car? I myself am pushing my limits by looking for a 512TR. I was going to buy a 88 1/2+ TR, but my wife told me she likes the 512TR a lot more and wants me to just buy that one "If you're going to blow that much money anyways." lol. | ||
| Joel Belser (Driver)
New member Username: Driver Post Number: 22 Registered: 9-2002 |
Mitch...rarely do all the planets align. When you are young, you are usually at the lower end of the pay scale...when you start to earn $, you get married and need a house...when the house is ready, along comes a kid. You get the point. Can you take a financial risk and own a Ferrari with less than perfect circumstances? Yes and no. Not with your FAMILY money! Yes, with spare cash. As others have pointed out, MAINTENANCE!!! Expensive cars, expensive parts. Personally, I would never own a car that cost a years gross income, no matter what my income was. You would be asking for trouble. Save up your money and get a model that you can reasonably afford. It's like gambling...spend what you can afford to lose, and you will be OK> | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3716 Registered: 2-2001 |
Well said Sean, When you get to where you can buy yourself that Ferrari toy you want,which is the light at the end of the tunnel and the passion hits you, it is a reward to yourself for all the work you have done even though it is not practical. | ||
| Sean Ruckel (Sruckel)
Junior Member Username: Sruckel Post Number: 120 Registered: 10-2001 |
I vote #2. While you should take advantage of being young (and most likely single, no kids), a few years is not much to wait, and as always said - the best things come to those who wait. I have been very fortunate in that I learned to save at an early age and it has paid off so far. I also realized that I didn't mind a steady diet of Ramen noodles and Mac 'n cheese in order to afford my cars or my home. It's all about trade-off as others have stated. Live below your means whenever possible, but still allow the occasional indulgence. Cash does accumulate fast if you know how to manage your finances. And when you get the extra cash, blow it on something you will truly enjoy. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3702 Registered: 2-2001 |
Do most of us really set goals or do we go into a line of endeavour and work at it so it pays our bills and if we have some light at the end of the tunnel we go for the toy we always wanted and buy a Ferrari. What's it all about Alfie......? | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 326 Registered: 1-2002 |
I do believe in goals like Jim. Owning a Ferrari was never a goal for me. I just thought it would be nice "someday". But, I have had many goals in my life, some financial, some personal. Some, I did not meet, but that's OK. Many I did, and then I set still greater goals. For me, at least, striving is a goal in itself and money is not the only thing to strive for. For instance, how about being the best spouse you can? However, a goal is only useful if you have a plan and this is important no matter what your age is. Whatever one's goals are, I doubt being hamstrung by bank payments will achieve it. I really enjoy my Ferrari and other hobbies/pastimes. However, if I was making payments on the Ferrari and felt like I had no wiggle room financially, I would resent the car and undoubtedly sell it. Dave | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3693 Registered: 2-2001 |
Guys, I agree with you because you are talking about the sensible approach. But a lot of these cars are bought out of passion and not looking at what happens tomorrow if..... Having said that the problem with our society anymore is instant gratification. That's why plastic is what the majority lives on and the question is "Can I make the next payment." | ||
| Robert McNair (Rrm)
Junior Member Username: Rrm Post Number: 172 Registered: 5-2002 |
Jim I was thinking along the same lines the other day. My original goal was 30 but I didn't make it, Im 33 now and it seemed to get farther and farther away. I got very discouraged but the other day I decided well why not just pull myself up by the bootstraps and reorganize the goals I failed to achieve. | ||
| Jim E (Jimpo1)
Intermediate Member Username: Jimpo1 Post Number: 1034 Registered: 7-2001 |
I'm still a believer in setting a goal for yourself and working towards it. I promised myself a Ferrari for my 35th birthday. I bought a 2nd home instead. I postponed my Ferrari to 40, and I picked it up the day after my birthday. I knew the day was coming and I saved for it. There was never a question that I would get it. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1710 Registered: 6-2001 |
Great suggestions. I'll keep these all in mind for 4 years down the road. I nominate this threat for thread of the week. | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
Member Username: Bahiaau Post Number: 414 Registered: 12-2001 |
Dave, you're exactly right. People forget that income is not the same as wealth. Build your wealth and you'll never have to worry about income. | ||
| Ron Dallas (328infoseeker)
Junior Member Username: 328infoseeker Post Number: 121 Registered: 12-2000 |
#2 plus this: Passions change for many reasons particularly at your age. - 3 years is not to long to wait. Save your money. pay cash and take out a loan for say 25% cost of car. - check into insurance cost you may not be insurable at your age if you have had any ticket/wrecks. Have fun! | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 322 Registered: 1-2002 |
It's been interesting reading views from the 20 somethings here. Good plans and lots of enthusiasm. I wish everyone success. Now, if you will indulge me briefly from my 50 something perch. If you listen to people past 50, the 3 most common regrets are as follows: 1. "I wish I had started my own business or switched careers back when...." 2. " I wish I spent more time with my family" 3. "I have made a lot of money and have nothing to show for it." These 3 laments are actually related and caused almost entirely by people spending all they can borrow. If every penny you earn is earmarked for something, you have no flexibility. So, you can't change jobs or start a business, even when it would be better in the long run, because you can't afford a temporary pay reduction. You have to spend more time workiing and less time with family or leisure. And last, because you blew so much money on interest and junk you don't need, you can't build equity. The solution is easy. No matter what your income level is, try to live on less. It's amazing how fast cash builds when you are not paying a bunch of monthly bills. You don't have to live like a pauper, just be a little patient and you will end up richer and with more toys quicker than if you get into the borrowing habit. Spending all you earn just puts you in a straight jacket financially and in your pesonal life. Dave | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 337 Registered: 4-2002 |
Im with Paul and some of the others. Plus your option #3 is not realistic. Im in the mortgage and R/E biz, you cannot make enough net from 2 rental properties in 5 years or so to buy any Ferrari. Not unless you put 75% down. Also, perhaps a TR at $55K would be a bit aggressive. I suggest you run a debt to income ratio. Add up all your monthly payments and compare to your gross income, it should not exceed about 35%. Figure up how much car payment this allows and buy whatever fits. Like Paul, I aspire to a more expensive Ferrari (a Daytona in my case) but my 308 sure is a blast in the meantime. Im also a P-car nut and drive a hotrod early 911S. There are tons of really cool cars you can get and drive that are not expensive. You can buy a great condition 911SC for $12K and they are a ton of fun. Drive it for 4 or 5 years and then get your TR? | ||
| Joseph (Mojo)
Junior Member Username: Mojo Post Number: 150 Registered: 9-2002 |
If your married #2 If your single #1 If you want a lot of responsibility #3 | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1620 Registered: 2-2001 |
I have friends who won a bank & I have revolving credit with them so I always put my toys on credit. Using OPM beats using MM all the time  Buy it as soon as you can afford the maintenance, which is probably more than the monthly bills. I figured out that my 512TR costs about $1 per mile to operate including major services, oil, gas, tires, brake pads etc | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3678 Registered: 2-2001 |
Yasir, You make my point exactly. If the practicality over shadows the passion then you probably won't make the decision to own one. A Ferrari is not a car for those who want to be too practical. It is a unnecessary expensive toy that is part of a dream of the passion. So being practical as you have stated tells me that you won't have a Ferrari because it comes before the passion and the Ferrari is not a practical car. Regards, | ||
| yasir saifullah (Yasir)
New member Username: Yasir Post Number: 9 Registered: 7-2002 |
Well passion is one thing and practicality is another.I'm a physcian and just recently bought a practice here in Kentucky.I joined the club few months ago hoping to have my childhood dream ( Owning a Ferrari,ofcourse)come true too but the more i read this site the more i think Ferrari is not for me.My problem is time and also i want things done my way and at my terms which seems difficult with owning a Ferrari ( Ferrari Mechanics).The other thing that we all should consider is the Maintanence cost and how far is a Ferrari dealership is and in my case its about 3-4 hrs. Any way i'm still doing my homework and we'll see how things turn out in coming months. Later, Yasir | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3668 Registered: 2-2001 |
I don't think there is any set rule. I think Ferrari passion dictates when one buys a Ferrari and when the passion strikes you WILL work it out to own one. | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
Member Username: Bahiaau Post Number: 411 Registered: 12-2001 |
I think #3 is the way to go. Cash is king. Insurance brokers can do very well(though most fail). My life insurance agent drives a 360 spider, though I'd say his work week is closer 80 hours, not 10. | ||
| Raleigh Smith (288gto)
New member Username: 288gto Post Number: 48 Registered: 10-2002 |
There is a slight problem with working 40 hours a week. People to see. To make money I have to meet with people when it is good for them. Most people can't meet during the day because they work, so I am slightly limited to the number of hours I work. Hours I work is not a good term. I do paper work and make trades during the day. work to me is when I am in front of someone. | ||
| V.Z. (Ama328)
New member Username: Ama328 Post Number: 32 Registered: 11-2002 |
"I am now a financial advisor that works on average 10 hours a week and make about $6k a month. I will have a car in the next year..." Hmmm, how 'bout working, say, FORTY HOURS/WEEK and make $24k/month ? Hell, at those rates, i'd work as much per week as i could reasonably handle and make some real $$... | ||
| Raleigh Smith (288gto)
New member Username: 288gto Post Number: 46 Registered: 10-2002 |
I must clearify. In financial planning as I do it we do life, long term care, and disability policies. The place where people have issues is the property and casulty insurance. In Texas most P & C sellers don't touch life sales due to conflict of interest. There are problems with life policies that people have incountered, but those are usually term life policies that are very rarely worth the paper they are printed on. That was big in the 70's and 80's. There are life policies I deal with now that have cash values that are earning returns that CD's and other fixed investments can't touch. It is safe and when the cash is used it is tax free. Plus it is your money so there is no problem getting to it and premiums are fixed for 15 years. Great products IMHO. Especially if you buy a house or an F car. You want to make sure your family is covered to take the monetary hit if something unthinkable should happen to you. I'll stop now. Sorry for the ramble. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Junior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 85 Registered: 8-2002 |
Raleigh's right- i work for a small insurance brokerage and my boss does pretty well for himself. Life, health, auto, homeowners (commercial and private), mutual funds, financial planning, auto, dental- you name it, we do it. This job was a very unlikely position for me, however it wound up being the longest job i've ever had (2 years...! 2 years, for me, is a long time- this is my 21st job, total) and it's very stable- i've made a very comfortable position for myself, with the company and although i'm not licensed ('cause i suck as a salesman), i'm still projected to continue earning more and more money and i might actually have a car worth doing a double take at, some time down the road... on the same token, Horsefly is right, too... dealing with beaurocratic red tape insurance company bullsh!t everyday makes you a little bitter (at least, that's how it is, for me)... | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 456 Registered: 5-2002 |
The insurance business. The only business that charges you a fee for doing absolutely nothing for you. And of course the insurance company will bend over backwards to avoid paying you if you ever need them. But if you're late on your payment to THEM, their coverage ends at the stroke of midnight. What a racket. No wonder the phone book yellow pages are 30% insurance companies. | ||
| Raleigh Smith (288gto)
New member Username: 288gto Post Number: 45 Registered: 10-2002 |
Patrick, one more thing. Securities are good and need in a total financial plan, but the real money is in insurance. It is something everyone needs. | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Junior Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 109 Registered: 8-2002 |
Good plan but forgot one thing, maintenance Buying the car is 1/2 the cost my 86 328 has over 40k in receipts from POs, 12cylinders F cars would be double that You may think well I can do my own maintenance and save money, nice thought but I am sure many Ferrari mechanics have many horror stories of owners thinking they can fix things themselves and cause major expensive damage, Ferraris have many aluminum exotic metals in their design and are not like normal cars and are very to mess up ridiculously expensive parts, unless you want to be one of the owners JRV has delt with and asked for used plugs for his TR cause they are expensive I recently went to a independent repair shop here where a 355 owner put the wrong anti freez in his car and destroyed his 2 radiators /water pump and corroded the alumuninum in his heads Unless you have the extra money to afford repairs and the unfortunate things that happen while driving, owning one of these cars would be a very stressfull experience | ||
| Raleigh Smith (288gto)
New member Username: 288gto Post Number: 44 Registered: 10-2002 |
Patrick, I don't have a degree and when it is all said and done in this career it isn't the degree that makes it. I was a freakin' English Lit major in school. I knew many people that started with me that had their CPA and masters in finance that failed miserable in this business. The key to being a financial advisor is to have good real world training and to have tons of integrity. Go with a smaller firm as well. I started at American Express Financial Advisors and they pay you 40% of the commisions that you actually earn. They trained me well, but paid me crap. Remember Patrick that this is the only job that you get paid for being a nice guy. | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 431 Registered: 8-2001 |
Interesting, this came by email from Monoster - the job board: What do mid-career professionals say when asked what they would change about their education if they could do it again? Many say they would take more risks and follow their hearts. This answer may seem somewhat out of step with MonsterLearning, a site designed to help people find the right education to fuel their careers, but it's not. In fact, answering the question, "What am I passionate about?" is a key part of building a successful work life. "If I had to do it again, I would take the risks to explore other areas I was interested in, and not just make all my educational decisions based on 'it's the right thing to do.' I would travel more, live where I really wanted, and do some things I regret not doing because I felt I had to take the 'right' fork in the road." -- Sheila, Ohio What questions should we ask ourselves at the start of our education or when considering a job switch? Try: What will hold my interest for eight hours or more a day? Or what subjects inspire my curiosity? Finding the right courses or career path doesn't mean choosing either the heart or the head. It's about aligning the ambitions of both. "I majored in psychology, mainly because it was popular. If I had it to do over again, I would have majored in geography, my real passion, and done something with it -- travel guide, explorer, professional adventurer, multinational commercial pioneer, State Department functionary, etc." -- Tom, Massachusetts Following one's heart is often viewed as being in opposition to following one's head, as if the decision is always between learning to yodel show tunes versus preparing to perform brain surgery. Tom wrestles with the decision he made to major in psychology instead of geography, but education in both those fields could lead to a number of rewarding careers. This third tale of unrequited learning comes from another Tom who regrets a life-building opportunity he passed over. "I had a summer job I loved on a cattle ranch in Wyoming between my junior and senior years in college. At the end of the summer, I was asked if I'd like to stay on through the winter. 'Oh, no,' I said, 'more important things to do back East.'" -- Tom, Connecticut Tom goes on to say he easily could have slipped back into college life a year later with a wonderful, unorthodox education in the real world under his belt. While a tangent to his later career, he nonetheless sees this missed opportunity as one that could only have helped him stand out in the crowd of identical graduate school applicants. His comment reminds us that our lives -- including our careers -- are built on everything we've done, and that learning happens in many ways and many places. Aligning the Heart and Head The need to "take the 'right' fork in the road" is based on positive impulses: A desire to become financially independent or take on mature pursuits. But before ditching your passion on the way to becoming the responsible person you long to be, see if you can't have both. | ||
| Patrick (Patrickr)
Junior Member Username: Patrickr Post Number: 75 Registered: 4-2002 |
Mike, Great post. Raleigh, I am trying to work towards becoming a financial advisor... I have concentrated on investments in college and will most likely go back to school and get a masters in finance (investments concentration) or my MBA. The job I will be starting next summer after graduation is with the largest bank in my state. Hopefully things will pan out! Patrick | ||
| Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
New member Username: Pupz308 Post Number: 21 Registered: 10-2002 |
Mitchell, No prob. I sorta realized at the end of the post that you weren't in this situation. So, let's just replace "Mitchell" and "you" everywhere in my post with "Some Kid". --Mike | ||
| Dom Vitarella (Dom)
New member Username: Dom Post Number: 15 Registered: 11-2002 |
Hubert, You went wrong by trying to be a scientist. I know, cause I went down that slippery path as well. I went to grad school right after college, spent 5 years getting my Ph.D. Then 2 years of post doc at a salary of $30k/year. So, If I had had gone into computers or something, that's 7 years of good (i.e., $50k/year) income I missed out on. So now I'm well situated in my career, and though I make good money (finally), I also have a $300,000 mortgage, and wife and baby. Oh, and I'm feeling pretty old at 34. However, I guess I pretty much followed scenario 2 and finally bought a 308 GT4, so there is a happy ending there. Although truth is, if I wanted a TR at $55k, I don't know if I could do it. In addition to the purchase price, there is maintenance (I'd guess at least double the price of GT4 maintenance), and I do need to save for retirement, and kids education. At least with the GT4, there was less of a cash outlay, leaving me with money for planned and unplanned maintenance on the car, the house, the wife, and the kids. Dom Still waiting for the repairs on his GT4... | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 318 Registered: 4-2002 |
Thanks Mike, though I was not posting my situation. Your vote is for 1. Interesting, there does not seem to be any agreement. lol. | ||
| Mike Procopio (Pupz308)
New member Username: Pupz308 Post Number: 20 Registered: 10-2002 |
This hits pretty close to home with me, Mitchell, and though are situations aren't exactly the same, I might be able to offer some perspective. I'm 23, just got out of grad school, and I got myself a job. I worked my ass of throughout school, held down whatever jobs I had to in order to avoid accumulating debt. I graduated without school loans--though I was very fortunate to have entered school with the support of some significant scholarships. On a related note, and I do not intend to highjack this thread, if you pay 25k/yr for four or give years to go to an IVY league our out-of-state public school, and you don't get 100% financial aid or help from your parents, you will graduate with debt, end up in a similar paying job anyway, and not be able to afford things you otherwise would have. In other words, if debt is involved on a 50k salary, forget an F-car. I went to the University of Florida (in state), and landed a solid job afterwards with no debt--this is one of the reasons why I'm able to be here right now writing this (e.g., I was able to afford a Ferrari). That said, upon graduation, I soon found myself renting an apartment. Not a mortgage payment, but up there. I got the cable and the high speed internet and all the other things that eat away from the monthly net income. However, owning a home (not renting like I do), all of the sudden you're not throwing money away--you're building equity, and with any luck you're not actually decreasing your net worth significantly (as opposed to renting). This is an important factor to consider, as it ties in closely with the idea of savings, something that should not be overlooked, even at the expense of an F-car. On a related note, again not hijacking the thread, though many F-cars that people in our situations can consider have already mostly depreciated, it is generally false to consider these F-cars an investment (such as a home can be), though one could justify it as savings of some sort. (Would you otherwise blow that car payment on stuff that you really didn't need, and couldn't get back? I.E. Would your disposable income encompass that car payment and disappear on home theatres and such, or would you actually put in savings?) Now, the emotion comes in. But you cannot ignore the logistics--do not let an F-car ruin you. There are ways to work it out, but can involve sacrifice. I purchased my 78 308 for approximately 30k, about 600/mo for 5 years. The result? Things are a bit tighter. I know every bill down to the last dollar. I nickel and dime where I can (save a stamp, dispute silly suspicious charges on bills, buy used / out of box stuff, repair when practical--don't replace, all of these sorts of things). Pure irony: I'm more of a miser now than I ever was, or ever would have been--and I have a Ferrari to show for it. I'm happier now than I have been in a long while--for me, the 308 makes every day rock--I'm an enthusiast who realized a dream. You, too, seem to be an enthusiast, though your dream of a TR is, without room to argue, a bit costlier than mine for a carbed 308. So, the logistics all worked out. On a more emotional side, I am definitely in favor of the first. I have learned the lesson over and over again--and that is to not live with regrets. In college, I worked a lot, but spent money--dinner parties, study abroad, all sorts of stuff. I lived it up--and the only reason I'm content now in the job-world is to know that I spent my time in college, I got the most out of it, I lived it up. Like you, I was working these things out, wondering whether to buy now with a car payment or let it ride. I thought about college--and living it up--and I jumped on the best 308 I ever did see. No regrets--but make sure the logistics are right. My affirmation? Everyday, all of the nice, older folks that I worked with--instead of envy--are super happy for me. "It'll never get easier to own one," they say--family, school, all of that stuff. Not wishing to offend anybody here, but I think this advice is indisputable for people living and working on standard (50k to 100k) salaries (as opposed to being independently wealthy, successful entrepreneurs, dot-com beneficiaries, or any combination of the 3). My opinion is that it never will be easier to have a Ferrari. If kids enter the picture, on a standard salary, you may find your priorities rapidly shifting, and the Ferrari being put lower on the list--unless you are willing to make some sacrifices in terms of quality of living. My vote, Mitchell, if for #1. However, on 50k, that's really tight. You'll have to make sacrifices--hopefully your mortgage payment isn't too big. You might have to forego some creature comforts here and there (drinking at bars!), but you could swing it with a 5 year car payment. That being said, I think a TR might be a little ambitious given your means--you must always keep that in mind. A 1200 car payment is greatly constraining on a 50k salary with a mortgage payment. Don't forget, also, that in general a TR is usually a more expensive car to maintain--don't just afford to purchase a TR, afford to own it. Well, that's my perspective, having been there--hope it was of some help. Best, Mike | ||
| Raleigh Smith (288gto)
New member Username: 288gto Post Number: 43 Registered: 10-2002 |
When I met with the owner of my firm he asked why I want to do my job, to help people, to make a difference? I looked him in the eye and said "I want this job so I can buy a Ferrari." He said that was the right answer and I was hired on the spot. I was an English major that didn't finish college because I hate taking science classes. I am now a financial advisor that works on average 10 hours a week and make about $6k a month. I will have a car in the next year. This is the goal that drives me. I am buying a house because my wife wants it, and I bought her a Mercedes cause that is also what she wanted, but now it is my turn. I suggest to all my clients keeping at least $10k in cash, but if they say their priority is something else I work it in their financial plan. I guess the moral of all of this is to do what it takes to make you happy. Someone elses timeline doesn't really matter | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 777 Registered: 12-2001 |
How about another option. I want a 512bb. I think a TR is a stepping stone to one. I currently own a 308. Im enjoying my 308 while i set a goal to get a TR. Im not wasting time without a ferrari, instead I will enjoy more than one before I get what I am dying for. Who knows, maybe Ill keep the 308 but its there as a downpayment if I choose to make a switch. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 370 Registered: 1-2002 |
>>22 - 25 year old with a job paying around 50k a year. Just bought first home, has little money in savings.<< Where did I go wrong? 4 years of classes: physics, calculus, physical chemistry, thermodynamics, quantum, advanced synthetic methods, and on; and I'm not even near the mentioned salary, will only surpass with my ph.d, and another 5 years of school. Ouch. At least I've got a house, whew. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Junior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 83 Registered: 8-2002 |
Go for it, Patrick, you sound like you're in a very stable position... once you get on that Horse, don't ever look back... | ||
| Patrick (Patrickr)
Junior Member Username: Patrickr Post Number: 73 Registered: 4-2002 |
This thread is hilarious... I am in this EXACT position. I graduate in May of 2003 with an undergrad in Finance. I am at the top of my class and was able to secure one of the best, most sought after job in town. Will be in the salary range being discussed. I will be graduating with no student loans (thanks Mom and Dad) and will be living at home for the first year of employment (thanks again Mom and Dad). In all honesty, I have always "told" people I will have a Ferrari by the time I am 25. I like the idea of purchasing the car when I have enough money... and since I have concentrated most of my studies on investments, I can invest the money (wisely I might add ) and earn some decent returns on it. We will see though what I will do. I have the girlfriend of five years that is wanting a ring on her finger. Also, she will be attending medical school next fall. Sooooo... it may be easier to afford one in my late 20's... In regards to grad school, my company will pay 50% of my expenses. That will be in about two years. I am currently 30 hours away from my MBA. I'll definitely be around here for awhile so I'll keep everyone updated ;) Patrick | ||
| Dave Wapinski (Davewapinski)
Member Username: Davewapinski Post Number: 430 Registered: 8-2001 |
I think one has to be practical/conservative. However, I think there is also an emotional side to consider. Sometimes one needs something outside of oneself to struggle for or be the reason to overcome other things. To say I can only afford the Ferrari I just bought if I finish this can be motivation to go to higher levels. Of course a little risky, so has to be used with caution. So can putting the money away in cash to get something be a good motivator. An example: When I was in US Army Engineer Officer Candidate School during the Vietnam War, my younger brother Daniel was killed by his own men - single M-16 round to the back of the head. I was very disillusioned, but I like to finish things. While on emergency leave, I bought my then dream car - the Austin Healey 3000 Mk III. The only way I could really afford it was if I finished OCS. When things got rough, the next step was for the Healey, not for me. Without the Healey, I would never have finished OCS. I think the desire for something fuels many a success. One has to get a good balance between money responsibility and emotional needs. Dave | ||
| Omar (O. H. B.) (Auraraptor)
New member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 42 Registered: 9-2002 |
22-25? Wouldnt they have college loans still? And what of Gradschool/its subsiquent loans? | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Junior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 82 Registered: 8-2002 |
#1 definitely doesn't work for me... like Mitchell said, #2 seems to make the most sense... #3 would take me the rest of my life just to start- i would never own a Ferrari... There is something to be said for #5, though, and that is: Just live life comfortably- like #1 suggests, you only live once. If you're meant to own a Ferrari, you will... things will come along and work out... As strong as my passion is for an exotic sports car, i can't put all i have into obtaining one- what if i pour all my efforts and resources into years of saving and planning and restructuring my lifestyle and the day comes that i finally have the money to go buy an Enzo and as i'm walking out of the dealership, i get hit by a bus and i become paralized...? Having your best friend drive you around in your new half a million dollar sports car while you're propped up in the passenger's seat just isn't the same... There's no one out there who wants to be at the controls of an exotic more than me but i know if i am meant to have one, it will come when the time is right. Struggling with bills and a mortgage and such while you've got a horse in the garage kinda takes away from that feeling that you've really earned it and can really appreciate it. How can you be proud to own a Ferrari when you're too busy working to ever drive it...? Patience sucks, but it's still a virtue. | ||
| Matt (Matt_lamotte)
Junior Member Username: Matt_lamotte Post Number: 80 Registered: 10-2002 |
Buy it right now....meet a very rich lady and your set for life. | ||
| John Delvac (Johndelvac)
Junior Member Username: Johndelvac Post Number: 168 Registered: 11-2001 |
4. If you can't wait, pay principal or get equity up to $55K + 20% of current value on your home. Get home equity line of credit for 1/4% under or over prime (small banks are better). Buy Ferrari with credit line. Live there 5 more years and pay off credit line as you "save". Invest money you paid off on credit line in land with 20% down. Make credit line bigger to pay more down payments on land as home equity grows. In 5 years, sell home which pays off credit line and gives you 20% down on your next home with paid for Ferrari and land down payments. Sell land, buy more land. Of course by then you will want a 360 or 550. Your Dad won't like the plan and a wife would hate it, but it works. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1975 Registered: 9-2001 |
no one other than the individual him or herself can better make this call. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 453 Registered: 5-2002 |
My advice is pretty worthless, but consider this. The answer to the same question 5 years ago might be different from today's answer. Five years ago, crazed lunatics weren't flying jet airliners into skyscrapers in an attempt to destabilize the entire country and/or world. Who is to say that 5 years from now, we might all be fighting over scraps of food in a nuclear wasteland? Buy now, have fun, because as one poster said recently, the future has no guarantee, today may be as good as it EVER gets. | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 316 Registered: 1-2002 |
#1 is academic since no one making 50K a year can afford a mortgage (probably around 1200/month) and a 1400-1500/month car payment. I vote for #3. In 15 years he'll be able to buy a big garage full of Ferraris. Dave | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 317 Registered: 4-2002 |
There has been a lot of talk about when to buy your first F-car on the board as of late. However, everyone is of a different opinion. Some say, save and buy after you have a financialy secure future and can confortably afford one. (This makes sence to me) Other say, this is not a dress rehersal, this is the only change you get! Live life while you are alive and get what makes you happy. Both sound like good advice. So here is a test. Senerio A: 22 - 25 year old with a job paying around 50k a year. Just bought first home, has little money in savings. Wants a 80's TR (in the 55k range.) Should he: 1. Buy it now, finance it out and enjoy having a ferrari for the five years it would take him to pay for it 2. Save up the money for 4 years then pay cash for the TR and own it outright a year earlier but go four years with no Ferrari driving say a 1988 honda civic dx. 3. Take the Ferrari money + normal morgage payment and payoff his house in six years. But another home and pay that off in five years using the rental income from his first home. But another home and pay it off in four years using the rental income from the first two. Buy another home and then buy a Ferrari with the rental income from the first three rentals but go fifteen years without a Ferrari driving his Honda civic. Interesting talk. Lets give the kids some good advice. I pick #2. |