| Author | Message | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 291 Registered: 8-2002 |
"How many threads on timing belt replacement can a human being take?" LOL, i agree, off-topic threads are a way to unwind from unwinding, so to speak... Which is why the off-topic forum on this board was such a brilliant idea... | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 523 Registered: 5-2002 |
Agreed DES. That's one thing I like about Ferrarichat, the Off Topic police don't come down TOO HARD. Bulletin board postings sometimes come across much harsher and cold hearted than they are meant to be. A lively debate helps add a little life to the workday. How many threads on timing belt replacement can a human being take? I probably won't be owning a Ferrari any time soon either unless Santa Claus drops by with one. | ||
| Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
New member Username: Jordan747_400 Post Number: 17 Registered: 12-2002 |
LOL Mark I love what you said really early in this thread. Actually, I'm a competing bodybuilder too...I have a hard time fitting my big legs under the wheel of a Ferrari but I can manage  I don't bodybuild or want to own a Ferrari for an ego boost...I think of both as art...I get a personal satisfaction from both! Like some of you said, a Ferrari is elevated perfection! But hey, a little ego boost isn't a bad thing eh? | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 287 Registered: 8-2002 |
First you were telling me to sell the car, now you're telling me to upgrade it...? What a contradiction...! Barry Goldwater is a politician- a senator, so in my eyes, that makes him evil, by default. i don't know of Patrick Henry, so i can't comment, but i agree with his statement- you have every right to say whatever you want, but blatantly advocating hatred is wrong, i don't care what free fuckin' country you live in... As far as my priorities are concerned, i think they're fairly straight right now: My computer (at work, where i am right now) is not mine- getting rid of it is not my choice. My computer at home is a Compaq laptop i got a great deal on- $600...! unfortunately, it's only got a celeron processor, which means it's slower than my car... i don't have an extra phone line- i only have one and my internet service is what made my computer so cheap- i'm locked into it for another 3 years (which is fine, i get unlimited CompuServe & AOL for only $28 a month)... i think we can both agree that neither one of us will agree with the other, so let's just agree to disagree and if we ever meet, i'll buy you a beer... i respect your right to your opinion and we see that i won't agree with the opinion, itself... i also respect MY right to MY opinion (as we can see, i excercise that right quite often); however, i'd like to respect the right of everyone else here and keep this off-topic subject to a minimum... if you strongly feel the desire to continue this, by all means, email me and we can go back and forth forever (email is free, that's one of my priorities)... If we're otherwise dismissing this, i thank you for the opportunity to argue my point and i wish you a happy holiday season... | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Intermediate Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 1308 Registered: 4-2002 |
hey all we need in this thread is ed gault, matt lemus, and jrv..to be a tag team match | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 522 Registered: 5-2002 |
DES said: ", you seem to be advocating a little too strongly for the right to do so..." To quote a great American, patriot Patrick Henry, "I may not agree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Or another great American, Senator Barry Goldwater: "Obsession in the pursuit of liberty is NO VICE". The above quotes are to the best of my memory, so fellow freedom loving Americans will get the idea. All those not in agreement can raise their hand....as in, Seig Heil!!! Who's waving a Nazi flag now??? As for the $300 value of your car, maybe you should rearrange your priorities DES. Sell the computer, cancel the extra phone line and the internet service and use the extra money to upgrade the car. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 277 Registered: 8-2002 |
Ok, maybe i didn't read your post correctly, but you didn't read mine correctly, either- i don't own a Ferrari... i'd be lucky if i could GIVE my car away...! My car was given to me, for free, as it is... and again, i already stated that my car is not a gas guzzler... Recently, i had to take my car to a junk yard to get a salvage appraisal on it... they said i'd be lucky to get $300-$400 for it... i give more than that to needy people, per year... i just got my renewal letter from my insurance company and they want $6300 a year for my car insurance- that's just over one third of what i make a year, after taxes... that leaves me with very little yet i still give whenever i can... i think i do my share to help others, so please don't preach to me about that... As far as our original discussion goes, with regards to the confederate flag- the bottom line is, it represents something disgusting... and whether or not you agree or disagree with flying the flag, you seem to be advocating a little too strongly for the right to do so... Lastly, i'm not a liberal; i'm a freedomist (another made-up word, by yours truly)... i don't associate with the bullshit politics of this country and i don't identify with any of the parties... my views are case-specific, designed by me, for me... i know quite a few liberals who won't even debate with me, as you're doing now, BECAUSE of my views... | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 521 Registered: 5-2002 |
And DES, a couple of more points. For historical double standards, amazing that it was alright and justifiable for the original 13 colonies to declare their independence from England. We celebrate that anniversary every July 4th. But when the southern states decided to do the exact same manuever in 1861 and secede from the north, well, HEY NOW, we can't ALLOW that. Somewhat of a unique historical double standard wouldn't you say? You said: "if my car offends some energy conservationist, then they're thinking on too small a scale to conserve energy- the two issues are completely different... " You didn't read my post correctly. I said that they should file a lawsuit against the Ferrari CLUBS, which would mean many thousands of gas guzzling cars could be taken off the road that OFFEND people. That would be a LARGE SCALE manuever that could lead to bigger things like outlawing other gas guzzling cars. Big journies start with little steps, so come on DES, save a starving child; sell your car and send the money to a charity. Maybe I am barking up the wrong tree. I keep forgetting the liberal mantra: If somebody else does something offensive, it's wrong and should be stopped. If I do something offensive, then that's alright. If somebody waves a Confederate flag, that's wrong. If I drive a gas guzzling car that polutes the air we breath, that's alright because it's MY car. The OTHER guy should change HIS ways, not me. I understand now. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 272 Registered: 8-2002 |
PS: My current car gets 200 miles per tank on city street and gets almost double that on the highway... my gas consumption is pretty conservative... | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 271 Registered: 8-2002 |
Arlie, you're really barking up the wrong tree, you have no idea... Even if the army in the north was just as ruthless as the confederates, to me, it doesn't matter- they were fighting AGAINST segregation... Also, i never said our country flew a nazi flag or that any of our states were part of the nazi regime (even though some of them were, without even knowing, but that's a different thread, altogether), i was merely making a hypothetical statement... Yes, you shouldn't fly a confederate flag, 'cause it's disgusting and it DOES offend people... and if my car offends some energy conservationist, then they're thinking on too small a scale to conserve energy- the two issues are completely different... Lastly, i don't own a Ferrari- i can't even afford a free Ferrari jacket (Lemus?)... HOWEVER, i DO do my part to help those less fortunate than i... i'm an official member of the PTA in my district (after two unofficial years of volunteering for them, i finally scrounged up the $7 to join)... i donate money to charities and offer my help whenever possible... if i ever have a Ferrari, it won't change the way i am- i'll still do whatever i can, whenever i can... So thank you very much for your wasteful and somewhat tasteless response, i really spent more time on it than it was worth... | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 520 Registered: 5-2002 |
DES said: "i don't give two sh**s about the "brave and honorable" men that died in fighting for the south, in the civil war- they were racists" I guess that those brave and honorable Confederate soldiers weren't honorable men like the Union army's General Sherman who torched and burned and destroyed his way across Georgia all the way to the sea. I guess that he was a real "nice" guy. I guess the innocent southern people that his army slaughtered felt alot better about their demise because he was not a "racist". Hey DES, maybe you need to enlighten me on American history. Which one of our individual states was EVER a part of Adolf Hitler's Nazi Germany? Which ones? NONE OF THEM!!!!! That's why your argument about flying the Nazi flag is full of hogwash. NONE of our states was ever a member of Nazi Germany, but ALL of our Southern states WERE a part of the Confederacy. So it IS historically accurate to remember the past by flying a Confederate flag. It is simply a part of history. It doesn't mean that you approve of everything that went on back then. We're all one FREE country now. So why shouldn't I be allowed to flay the Confederate flag as a historical rememberence? Because it OFFENDS someone? Well hey, maybe your gas guzzling Ferrari sports car OFFENDS some of the energy conservation groups ! Maybe they should file a lawsuit against all the Ferrari clubs? How about that! I'm am NOT in favor of flying the Confederate flag in any officially sanctioned government status. But if some guy wants to hang a Confederate flag on his front porch, that IS his right, just like you have the right to drive an oppulent, expensive, decadent, gas guzzling sports car. Just think about how many starving people you could help feed if you would just sell your gas guzzling Ferrari and send that money to a charity organization. When are you going to sell your gas guzzler DES and help feed the world? | ||
| Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Junior Member Username: Airbarton Post Number: 85 Registered: 11-2002 |
Pete, I'm trying to do my part! I drive mine everyday! | ||
| Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Junior Member Username: Airbarton Post Number: 84 Registered: 11-2002 |
Des, that was a very nice speech but I think you missed my point. I was trying to say that the way to end all of this hatred is not by going out and starting trouble, it is through tolerance and that means on both sides of the debate! I don't like racisim or descrimination any more than you do but trying to force these people to come around to your way of thinking will only make them resent you even more! you can't expect them to change overnight. The best bet is to let time do its work. You can certainly see that things have already changed quite a bit. It only stands to reason that as more time passes we will get closer and closer to the ideal I think we both agree on. Happy Holidays! | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 267 Registered: 8-2002 |
Pete, you're right, it DOES make the day better... at least, for me... so, um... can you drive by my house...? i live at......... | ||
| Peter (Bubba)
Junior Member Username: Bubba Post Number: 212 Registered: 5-2002 |
Just my 2 cents: I like Ferraris because they have been my and my brother's (R.I.P) dream cars ever since we were little. Ever since we saw the first Testarossa back in 83/84 in the magazine, we fell in love with it. It was love at first sight. All these years later, the passion is still there and will stay that way. In a funny sort of way, I think we are doing everyone (except the occassional jerks) a favor by driving our Ferraris around. Although Ferraris are fairly common here in Hong Kong, people generally light up when a Ferrari comes around. They will smile and sometimes wave. I think it helps to make their day a better one. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 264 Registered: 8-2002 |
i don't think we should ever forget- i think that's part of the problem... in all honesty, i don't give two shits about the "brave and honorable" men that died in fighting for the south, in the civil war- they were racists, •••• 'em... Sure, when you travel, you don't see blatant segregation, nowadays, but it's out there, nonetheless... Someone once said, 'ignorance isn't bliss- it's oblivion.' i can understand feeling strongly about a cause, but in the end, in my heart, i know i'm right- there's no sense in segregation, no matter how strongly some feel about it... So if there are people in the south who think the confederate flag should continue to fly- EVEN ON OUR NATION'S CAPITAL- well, then, they're wrong... Our nation is really •••••• up if we allow this, i mean, what if it were a Nazi flag...? That's it, let's just fly a Nazi flag right next to the confederate flag, 'cause that's basically what we're doing right now... but NOOOOOO, that would be too harsh, 'cause our government gets too much financial backing from too many Jewish organizations to be that stupid, but as far as the confederate flag, well... you get my point... Let's just replace the presidents' portraits on our currency with pictures of Hitler & David Duke... While we're at it, let's add Trent Lott to that list... Lincoln can stay on the five, 'cause he was a racist, too... he didn't really want the slaves to be free, he just freed them 'cause he thought they would go back to Africa... This country of "freedom" was built on racism and oppression and segregation and, yes, fascism and it stinks of •••• since its inception... ...um... ok, i'm done, now, i guess... | ||
| Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Junior Member Username: Airbarton Post Number: 83 Registered: 11-2002 |
No Des I don't! First of all I don't see where all of this segregation is taking place. I travel all over the country and I have yet to see anyone out there forced to do anything they don't want to do or live were they don't want to live. Don't you think we have gotten to a point were we don't need to have this debate about segregation or descrimination anymore? As far as I am concerned the only people out there that are complaining about segregation or descrimination are those people who cannot take responsibility for their own failures. They seem to want to blame everyone else but themselves for their lack of success. Public education is available and free to anyone who wants to go and fill out the paper work to get it. I also don't think you understand why some of the people in the south defend the Confederate cross. I am not one of them but I understand why they do. First of all they believe in thier constitutional right to do so but also many of them are decendants of men who fought and died during the civil war. Even though they were on the wrong side of the cause they were still brave honorable men who are entitled to be remembered for thier sacrifice. This is not about identifying with the segregationist cause, it is about tolerance. I also find segregation repulsive but I don't feel compeled to go out and protest people that fly the confederate flag. Doing so only fuels the fires of discontent and does nothing to eliminate predjudice. I think everyone should quit debating it and leave it alone for awhile and mabey everyone will just learn to get along. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 253 Registered: 8-2002 |
Charles, you're right, someone who makes many public appearances is bound to slip up, but that's one of the downsides to being a public figure... he's going down and i hope he brings his entire party with him... and, no, there's no way of knowing if he's truly a bigot going by the statement he made, but dollars to donuts, i would bet he's got a white hood hangin' in his closet or a swastika tattoo "from the good ol' days" or something like that... (Doh! i HATE politicians!) In any case, the confederate flag issue is a big issue for some people, and rightfully so... Flying the confederate flag shows that you, in some way, identify with what it stands for... segregation is just downright repulsive and to say that some people are making more out of it than it is, is a little much, don't you think...? | ||
| Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Junior Member Username: Airbarton Post Number: 111 Registered: 11-2002 |
Des, being politically correct in itself is'nt a bad thing, but taking it to far is. I am all for respecting other peoples feelings. I go out of my way to be a good neighbor. I just wish the PC's could have the same live and let live attitude that I have! Happy Holidays! | ||
| Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Junior Member Username: Airbarton Post Number: 110 Registered: 11-2002 |
Arlie, I see we agree on more than I thought! The flap over the Confederate flag has been going on here in ATL for some time now. The PC croud wants the Legislature to change the state flag because of the Confederate cross. Can't they think of anything better to do! I also think the flap over Trent Lotts statement is a bunch of bull! I am sure anyone that makes as many public appearances as he does is going to put his foot in his mouth once in awhile, so what, that does'nt make him a bigot! Happy Holidays! | ||
| David Jones (Dave_jones)
New member Username: Dave_jones Post Number: 14 Registered: 12-2002 |
 if'n you doont like wut i think then keep it to yurself or wait for thisone to fly | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 321 Registered: 8-2002 |
"mostly extreme left wingers & the ivory tower education establishment" LOL, that's awesome... anytime anyone says anything against any type of corporate or policital "establishment", it just makes my day... Dave, yes, i agree with you on that, that facts should not be watered down, i agree that people should know the TRUTH about all things... (but that leads to, like you mentioned, school books but also the media, that trojan horse better known as the television and so on...) If the truth can be conveyed in such a way where it does not advocate for the occurance in a biased or one-sided way, then it is effective. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 534 Registered: 5-2002 |
The Confederate Air Force was flying vintage WWII aircraft with Confederate flags painted on the sides for 30 years BEFORE the politically correct crowd started whining on their soapbox. If seniority and tradition mean anything, the Confederate Air Force wins that argument. Also, and more importantly, the politically correct organizations are free to start up their own vintage air force and fly their "PC" planes just like the Confederate Air Force. That's what I don't like about PC groups. They don't JUST want to exercise their rights, they want to stop any activity that they don't like. What happened to the First Amendment to the Constitution; freedom of speech??? (also applicable to Trent Lotts statements. People may disagree with what he said, buy why isn't anyone defending his right to say it? Everyone seems to have forgotten Patrick Henry in the politically correct world.) | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 628 Registered: 1-2002 |
I agree with you, DES. But I also object to folks changing and/or watering down FACTS--what ACTUALLY happened--just for some touchy-feely wanna-be-your-friend reason. It's a crying shame that kids' school books do this already, instead of respecting them enough to let them make up their own minds. But the rabid PC crowd--mostly extreme left wingers & the ivory tower education establishment--are afraid of this, so they "adjust" the facts to suit their own preconceptions, knowing full well that their agenda would fold up immediately if they allowed their audience free will with ALL of the facts. JMHO, of course... | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 320 Registered: 8-2002 |
i don't feel that being politically correct is a bad thing (keep in mind, this is coming from a guy who's best friend calls him P.C., short for, you guessed it, politically correct)... There are terms, words, phrases, etc that offend people and i feel we should we respect the feelings of others, especially if we want our own feelings respected. (Sorry, Magoo, i'm not trying to jack your thread, although it has abberated quite a bit, since its inception...) EDIT: Arlie: Whether you're a segregationist or just signifying history makes no difference- it's still in bad taste... and no one said you can't speak the truth about history while being politically correct, political correctness is just a more euphemistic approach- i'm not sure everyone has a full understanding of that... Dave, before considering that i might be a whiney crybaby, i try to consider how i would feel, if the tables were turned... i just try to be as open-minded about everything as possible, taking all points of view into consideration, which is what i think everyone should do... that would eliminate alot of the problems in today's society... | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 627 Registered: 1-2002 |
Arlie, I agree with you 100% on this. It's shameful. We'd rather alter the FACTS than deal with them as they were & possile "offend" some whiny crybaby. Good grief! | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 533 Registered: 5-2002 |
In the politically correct world, one is not allowed to speak the truth concerning history. The various veterans groups RIGHTFULLY got into an uproar when the Smithsonian Institution started to put the B-29 Enola Gay on display with a watered down version of the atomic bombing of Japan so as not to "offend" the Japanese government and tourists. Now the Confederate Air Force is "cleansing" its own history by eliminating any references to the Confederate flag and its relationship to southern heritage. NEWS FLASH!!! The vast majority of average people in the south during the civil war NEVER owned slaves. But they still flew the flag because they lived in the south. To the majority of southerners today, the Confederate flag is a historical rememberance, not a rally cry for segregationist activities. (See Trent Lott for those details!) | ||
| Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Junior Member Username: Airbarton Post Number: 109 Registered: 11-2002 |
Des, I think what Tillman means when he says unfortunately is that this whole politically correct thing we are doing now is a load of bull! Tillman feel free to politically correct me if I am wrong. Happy Holidays guys! | ||
| Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Junior Member Username: Airbarton Post Number: 108 Registered: 11-2002 |
Andrew, Tillman is correct they changed it to the commemorative airforce to appease all the politically correct types. Excuse the slip, Happy Holidays! | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 316 Registered: 8-2002 |
Unfortunately...? Why do you say unfortunately...? | ||
| Tillman Strahan (Tillman)
Junior Member Username: Tillman Post Number: 237 Registered: 11-2001 |
Andrew, Yep, the CAF http://www.confederateairforce.org/ Unfortunately, the politicially correct crowd forced a name change a while back to the "Commemorative Air Force" | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 475 Registered: 3-2002 |
Charles... THE CONFEDERATE AIRFORCE???!?! | ||
| Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Junior Member Username: Airbarton Post Number: 82 Registered: 11-2002 |
Terry thats true in a turning fight as the smaller more nimble German fighters can just barely out turn the P-51 but there is know German fighter that can win against the P-51 in the energy fight. In the hands of a top notch fighter jock the P-51 can munch on anything the luftwaffe flys. It is really a case of knowing your adversaries capabilities and picking your fight on your own terms! Once the U.S developed superior tactics there was no contest! | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 359 Registered: 4-2002 |
P51 is a tough match... but we shoot down plenty. As long as the odds are even, the FW190 is a pretty good match with the P51 in many vs many engagments. Teamwork, good situational awareness, speed, good climb rate and good firepower are critical. Remember, the P51 excelled primarily because its great range allowed to go deep into Germany. IT as a great fighter, but a really hot 109 or 190 driver could give the Pony a headache. | ||
| Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Junior Member Username: Airbarton Post Number: 79 Registered: 11-2002 |
Terry, just wait till the P-51's come to town, I'm sure they will be able to turn the tide just like they did back then! | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 355 Registered: 4-2002 |
I'm a huge WWII Aviation enthusiast! Love the B17 However, I do shoot them down rather frequently. I actually shot down 2 of them on a single sortie over the Zuider Zee 3 weeks ago. My squadron of FW-190A4's intercepted a formation of about 50 B17's on their way to bomb Hamburg. We set up an attack from high 3oclock. I made 2 passes, both slashing attacks closing to less than 50 yards. The first B17 I flamed both his right engines and he burned all the way to the ground. The second I tore his tail to shreds and the crew bailed out. Both of these B17's were from the 305th bomb group. I spoke to the pilot of the second bomber who complimented my gunnery. My squadron, Jagdgeschwader 26 "Schlageter" is based in Cambrai in France. We fly the "wurger", the Fock-Wulf FW-190A4. Currently, most of our missions are against the RAF and we fight the Spitfire MkV and Hurricane MKII along with some P38f's and P40E's. Sound like nonsense? Nope. As close to the real thing as your ever likely to get: http://www.totalsims.com/index.php?url=wbiii/content_home.php | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 503 Registered: 5-2002 |
Try reading either of these two books, "Flying Forts" or "Black Thursday" by the late author Martin Caidin. The grim truth concerning aerial combat over Europe during WWII. | ||
| Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Junior Member Username: Airbarton Post Number: 78 Registered: 11-2002 |
Dave, go to www.b17.org, they have a schedule of the Aluminum Overcast's tour. You can book a flight ahead of time if you like. It is worth the trouble if you are fascinated with this fabulous aircraft like I am! | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 348 Registered: 1-2002 |
Charles, My pappy was a top turret gunner in a B-17. I always wanted to fly in one to get a sense of what it was like for him. Rides were being sold on one locally here a year or two ago, but sold out long before I could pony up. Didn't know about the museum in Savanah. I will try to make a point to go someday. Dave | ||
| Mitchel DeFrancis (4re308)
Member Username: 4re308 Post Number: 745 Registered: 6-2001 |
Hey Wayne and John H! Yes, it was Mr Love whom I was speaking of. That guy knows what driving Ferraris is all about. John, you and I have similar memories! I remember seeing them knock the crap out of the knock off when they changed tires, I remember seeing how they treated that car just like any other car. I remember how much he seemed to enjoy using the 250. Ahhhh good memories, thanks for the recollection fellas!! I think I have some photographs of the car too! Let me dig them up! Wayne, don't forget about my signed copy of your book when the time comes!! | ||
| Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Junior Member Username: Airbarton Post Number: 76 Registered: 11-2002 |
Arlie, I guess there are some things we do agree on. I might point out though that you can also not buy a 1990 348ts today either. As far as the P-38 goes your are again correct, a potential buyer would definately be turned off by the planes lack of authenticity. Luckily the people who restorded it never intended for it to be resold. The aircraft's purpose is exhibition. The owners are planning to tour the country with it much like the guys of the Confederate Airforce do. They believe that by preserving the heritage of these aircraft and others like it we are honoring the people that fought and died to preserve our way of life. It may sound old fashion or corny but I also believe as they do. Just a final note, I also love the B-17. I actually got a chance to fly a mission in one called the Aluminum Overcast last year. It gave me a real appreciation for what those guys did for us when they flew those bombing raids over Germany. If you would really like to know the full story behind the B-17 and the men who flew them you should visit the 8th Airforce museum in Savana Georgia, it is a wonderful experience well worth your time! | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 2043 Registered: 9-2001 |
magoo asked the question, you were actively arguing a view point - to which many argued against you - no need to get upset. does not matter how many postings people have. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Junior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 174 Registered: 8-2002 |
<---------- :::throws cream pie at Magoo::: (Now how's THAT for "FOOD" for thought...!?!) | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 498 Registered: 5-2002 |
Magoo started this entire thread with his question: ""Are we the guys who buy the hand me downs from the big spenders and think we are as classy and uptown as they are?" I like the way that everybody attacks my comments on the issue, when in fact, MAGOO is the original conceiver of those thoughts. I guess it is easier to attack me than Magoo because he has nearly 4000 postings and I'm just a newbie. Why doesn't anybody attack Magoo for asking the question in the first place? I guess the Emperor is wearing new clothes. Hey Magoo, you must be the Emperor, because nobody DARES to counter your question by mentioning you personally in their postings. They just attack me. Buy hey, somebody has to be a private and somebody has to be the general. It's tough up here on the front lines! | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Junior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 172 Registered: 8-2002 |
i would take a used Enzo... (Ok, ok, really, i'll shut up, now...) | ||
| Ken (Allyn)
Member Username: Allyn Post Number: 580 Registered: 10-2001 |
Arlie Says: So I guess the owner of a 1962 Ferrari GTO would have equal respect and admiration for a 1962 Rambler 4 door or a 1962 Chevy low-rider? That's correct. Absolutely, if he was a fan of those cars. I hate Hot Rods but I understand the passion of the owners. Arlie plods on: Can't speak for others, but if I REALLY didn't care what people thought of me, I would wear a 50 cent shirt, drive a $100 dollar car, and save alot of cash quicker and buy a new Ferrari. That statement implies you haven't read all the reasons people here bought Ferraris. It's the love of the car, expressed in different ways. And you speak for others quite often actually. Arlie speaks for others: I think most people would rather own something when it is current and relevent. My Europa is not current or relevent, and will challenge ANY Ferrari for maintainence headaches. I love the way it looks and drives. I'm like most people here I think. Arlie quotes Magoo: "Are we the guys who buy the hand me downs from the big spenders and think we are as classy and uptown as they are?" Some might. You seem to be like that in you equate Ferrari ownership with money and status and NOT the love of the car. Posers drive pick up trucks too you know. Arlie on Bret's drug comment: I mean by your logic, you should have at least tried one or two illegal mind altering drugs before you dare to make comments about addictive drugs in general. Well...until you own an exotic you're in love with, you really don't have ANY idea. I sure didn't. Same with drugs. Arlie, you really do need to buy a Ferrari, Lotus, Lamborghini etc. to expand your mind. All these cars have models available used at afforable prices to buy. You just need the commitment to maintain them. Until you dedicate yourself to these cars like owners do, you really are blowing a LOT of smoke. But if you bought an 'affordable' exotic, then you'd be taking a hand me down huh. Too bad you feel that way; you're really missing something! | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Junior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 170 Registered: 8-2002 |
The Enzo ROCKS...! (ok, i'll shut up, now...) | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 495 Registered: 5-2002 |
Charles, I can't believe that we also agree on a few things. I think the Enzo looks somewhat like a hawk-beaked Pontiac show car. Not the most attractive car to me either. As for the '57 Chevy being somebody else's old junk; yes, it was. But unfortunately, one can not go out and buy a 1957 Chevy today, or I probably WOULD go out and buy a nice Belair Convertible. But they don't make them any more and I can't afford to buy a new Ferrari! So we do the best we can. I tend to agree with you on the real/repro P-38 issue Charles. But I don't know if a potential buyer would tolerate a 90 percent repro. I am also a mild vintage aircraft enthusiast. I did some research on another B-17 crash in Greenland (NOT the B-17 that crashed with the P-38s). I got ahold of the original accident reports from Norton Air Force Base in California. From all I could determine, the plane is probably still there. Unfortunately, it is probably in the same shape as that P-38. | ||
| Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Junior Member Username: Airbarton Post Number: 72 Registered: 11-2002 |
Arlie, It is an LS6 454 and it is in mint condition. I like it too and happen to think it was one of Chevy's finest muscle cars. That millionaire happens to be my Father in law so I am very familiar with the car. I think you may have missed my point. I was trying to say that it is not about the cars age, desirability, ect, it is about what the individual finds attractive. Beauty after all is in the eye of the beholder. I for example don't like the look of the Enzo wouldn't want one new or not. I happen to think my 348 is a much prettier car. My wife on the other hand thinks my car is ugly, go figure. Lets face it everyone has there own taste when it comes to cars. By the way I also think the 57 Chevy is a good looking car. I am curious why you bought the delivery wagon, couldn't it also be considered someone elses old junk? and when are you going to finish it so we can see it on the road! I also know one of the guys who was responsible for the salvage of the P-38 you are refering to. His name is Pat Epps. He owns the FBO our airplane is hangared @. I have talked to him about that expidition. You are correct that there is very little on the airplane that is original and that the new parts were manufactured using the old one as a model. They are identical copies of the originals so why does it matter if the metal they are made of is new or old the airplane is still a P-38! | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 325 Registered: 7-2001 |
Wow this just keeps getting uglier and uglier. Hey guys!.....guys!.....I......I....love you man!!! | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 493 Registered: 5-2002 |
You are correct Peter. It has always amazed me that historic cars can be completely rebuilt with nothing much left but the serial number plate and still be called the "same" car. The same thing happens in vintage aircraft circles. I remember seeing a documentary on the P-38 fighter plane that was recovered from under the icecap in Greenland that was then rebuilt in Kentucky. The restorer of that plane said that it was in such bad condition that 90 per cent of the plane was reproduced using the original parts only for a pattern. | ||
| Andrew (Mrrou)
Member Username: Mrrou Post Number: 441 Registered: 3-2002 |
Horsefly do you consider yourself one of the elite who can afford the best? I always thought that success was measured through ones character and degree of happiness rather than his finiancial accomplishments. Andrew | ||
| john w. houghtaling, II (Johnhoughtaling)
New member Username: Johnhoughtaling Post Number: 33 Registered: 11-2002 |
Wayne, Mitch: Saw Mr. Love with the Pontoon fendered TR at the historic races this year. Seeing him race, seeing him and his wife working on the car between races, themsleves; seeng them unload it from an open car trailer, after being towed with the 1,000 van-tow vehicle, was the best thing I saw all year. I cannot think of a car that has had a better life that this one. What could be better than being owned by a true enthusiast, to be raced by the consumate gentlemen racer for nothing other than the sure genuine pleasure of it. I can think of no more "real" car, "real" enthusiast, or "real" story. There is no better example of what it is all about. Bravo, Mr. Love. | ||
| peter brinzey (Ferraripete)
New member Username: Ferraripete Post Number: 35 Registered: 11-2002 |
for the record, properly chopped daytonas are really great cars to drive and admire. they also represent a comparative bargain. they would benefit from steel inner fenders as on the real thing...more rigidity. i love all daytonas! it is strange however, that ferrari sports racers can be rebuilt completely save the s/n plates and still retain huge value. | ||
| jeff ryerson (Atheyg)
Junior Member Username: Atheyg Post Number: 117 Registered: 8-2002 |
People with real money don't want or need to prove to anyone they have it, it may be an ego boost that people think you are wealthy but they come out of the woodwork looking for handouts and scams to take your money The biggest pretenders I know are constantly buying the latest and greatest overpriced crap on credit and live in elaborate houses with all new vehicles and they are all broke have the IRS after them and have no spare cash, they'll get a new line of credit and celebrate by going out for a 150.00 dinner, then a few weeks later hit up everyone for bridge loans These people also have the newest l exotics/luxury cars Ferrari/Porsche etc on lease, people with real money are secure and don't flash it, the wannabes and pretenders are the flashiest and brag most of what they have to anyone that will listen | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 345 Registered: 4-2002 |
Wayne, Your right and Im done responding to the horsefly trolls. Its all either trolling nonsense or a mild psychological disorder. In either event, I wont be responding to it any further. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 491 Registered: 5-2002 |
Your millionaire friend may indeed prefer his 70 SS Chevelle (perhaps the LS6 454 option?) over any new Ferrari that he can well afford, but that doesn't mean that others who would like to buy a new Ferrari today can afford them. Instead of having them now, they will have to wait until years from now when they have dropped off the desireability scale that the "elite" are able to afford TODAY. In other words, the poor folks WANNABE buying a new Ferrari, but they have to wait years until they are well used and MUCH cheaper. Not that 57 Chevys aren't nice too. I have a 57 Chevy sedan delivery wagon. (another project). | ||
| Charles Barton (Airbarton)
Junior Member Username: Airbarton Post Number: 71 Registered: 11-2002 |
I thought these cars were about the feel, the sound, the performance, the look. It should not matter if its new or old you buy the car you like. Why do people like classic cars such as a 57 Chevy over a new Chevy? Mabey they like the look or the way it drives or mabey it brings back good memories, who knows. The bottom line is your not a so called "wannabe" just because you don't have a new Ferrari. I personally know a millionaire that can easily afford any car he wants and owns 6 but his favorite car is his 1970 SS Chevelle. I personally don't care what anyone thinks of my 348, I love it! | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 489 Registered: 5-2002 |
L.Wayne, glad to see you respond. I just thought that it was contradictory and a double standard that one Ferrari guy, that E-Bay rare prototype Daytona seller, was TOUTING the virtues of his car being converted at the Scaglietti factory (without factory approval); and other guys on this board were turning their noses up at rare former race cars that were also converted at the Scaglietti factory because they were done without factory approval. I thought it was an interesting double standard. One rare prototype Ferrari is TOUTED BECAUSE of its NON-factory approved Scaglietti conversion and another rare racing Ferrari is DEGRADED BECAUSE of its NON-gactory approved Scaglietti conversion. Apparently nobody else can see the 180 degree opposite situation. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Junior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 143 Registered: 8-2002 |
Tim... My front axel just snapped in half not too long after i hit 190,000 miles (and i don't think that would've happened if the tow truck driver was a little more careful). Mine's a 4 door, too and she's a real trooper (194,101 miles right now)... i've put her through some harrowing ordeals and she stays by my side, through thick and thick... she only left me stranded twice (the broken axel was one time) and another time she just wouldn't start (i don't remember the name of the part, put it cost me $300 to get her back)... i would recommend a Nissan to anyone... no one drive's a car harder than me, (not even Schumi) and my car seems to thrive on the beating she takes... Viva La Nissan...! | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1739 Registered: 6-2001 |
nothing;s wrong with sentras. my friend had a 91 4dr 2 years ago. The back seat was so comfortable, it was like a couch. It wasnt that hard to work on at home either. we learned that when one of his axles broke while i was driving it. (176k miles on an axle is alot!) | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Junior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 142 Registered: 8-2002 |
Mitch, i don't know why it keeps coming out, that i drive a Sentra, it just happens that i keep mentioning it... maybe, subconciously, all these conversations with people of wealth (or apparent wealth) leads to feelings of inadequacy... ...naaah. In any case, i'll try to stop mentioning it (Sentra), i'm sure it's getting annoying by now... please feel free to point it out again, if i continue to do it... | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1735 Registered: 6-2001 |
"""That just doesn't cut it. In reality, unless you're one of the rich NEW Ferrari buyers, you're just a WANNABE who is 20 years too late.""" i agree with you bret, that is a stupid comment. | ||
| David White (Dwhite)
Junior Member Username: Dwhite Post Number: 78 Registered: 7-2002 |
Arlie, I hope when you have the money to buy a new Ferrari you actually will like the design and the way it drives. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 2004 Registered: 9-2001 |
Arlie doesn't throw a hook out -- he bites at you like a fly with his off the wall analogies - ah hence he name horsefly. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1650 Registered: 2-2001 |
Back when I bought my 512TR around 2000 for about the same money I could have ordered a brand new 355, with good looks but less power, no 12 cyl. I wasnt interested in the starlet du jour, I knew what i wanted and I have no regrets. I really love the 512TR its such a gorgeous car, I'm sure it will be a classic in the future but thats not why i own it. & no way I would trade it for a 360 spyder or a 575 even if they offered me a straight trade. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 557 Registered: 8-2002 |
To all: Ha! Ha! It just doesn't matter how many times Arlie throws the hook out, you guys just continue to bite. He's been posting on this site (and stirring things up) since May and you guys still take the bait every time! Hillarious. Mitch DeFrancis: The gentleman with the pontoon-fendered TR wouldn't happen to have been David Love, would it? When I spoke with David a few years back, he told me he traded a Porsche 550 spider and $3500 for 0754TR in the 1960's. He has raced the car ever since and his car is one of only two that have participated in the Monterey Historic Races every single year since the inception in 1974. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 3096 Registered: 2-2001 |
And that's my last post on it, you can retort, etc and show me wrong, just don't expect a reply or think that because I don't respond I agree or succumb. | ||
| Raleigh Smith (288gto)
Junior Member Username: 288gto Post Number: 62 Registered: 10-2002 |
In March when I get my first Fcar, whether it be a 308 or a 355, I will go to bed with a big smile on my face and know that I have one of the best cars ever made for driving. I will drive it in the rain, cold, and heat. If it is running and there isn't a tornado in my way I will drive it and be happy. I too deal with people that have money and most of them hear "Ferrari" and think $100k car even if it is a 308. My boss easily makes 2.5 to 3 mill a year and can't believe he dropped $60k on a Lexus. Will other Fcar owners think less of me? If that is what they have to worry about, then life isn't too bad. For me knowing my wife and dog are safe and riding around with the targa top off will make me happy. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 3095 Registered: 2-2001 |
I just think Arlie made a stupid comment """That just doesn't cut it. In reality, unless you're one of the rich NEW Ferrari buyers, you're just a WANNABE who is 20 years too late.""" and instead of just letting it be, he tries and rationalize this with several largely incoherent side arguments. The bottom line is you believe that the vast majority of owners here are "wannabes". I disagree with this citing the numerous reason why an older Ferrari is an excellent choice in light of its cost and comparable car in the price range and the fact that no one on here is pretending to be something other than the owner of an old Ferrari. Then on one of your side arguments I further apply what you tell me about what one should talk about and not talk about, and you try to make it sound like I said someone with a 308 shouldn't talk about other Ferraris, which is clearly not the case, but good try, read your posts, you started that interesting concept, I simply commented on what you said. I just think it's dumb, you made an unpopular and untrue comment that applies to probably 90% of the day to day posters here, instead of letting it go though you kept going at it. And Tim, people don't do coke because it isn't fun. . All you coke addicts out there come down, I'm just joking, and if you're mother, brother, sister, etc OD'ed I'm sorry for that. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1731 Registered: 6-2001 |
Arlie, i agree with you, but only on the fact that you have to care what people think about you. I'm pretty sure thats what you were tying to say at least. If i went to my college interveiw wearing torn and dirty sweatpants smelling of alcohol and body odor and wearing no shirt, do you think i would have been accepted? Its important to care what other people think about you, but you cant let self consciousnes dictate your every move. As for old cars, i find them as interesting (some m0re) interesing than old cars. They are automotive history, not to mention fast (at least the ones i like). Dont get bret started on trying drugs to judge them. not that he does them or anything, but i've heard his humorous thoughts pertaining to that topic before. | ||
| Joseph (Mojo)
Junior Member Username: Mojo Post Number: 166 Registered: 9-2002 |
Don't some girl's show parts of thier body to ferrari owners? Thats why I would buy one. Don't tell my wife. | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 344 Registered: 4-2002 |
Nothing went over me. Your point that this car is indicative of some double standard is still flawed. As you point out, though it was cut in Italy and perhaps even by some of the same people who cut the original factory authorized Daytona Spyders, this car is not a factory authorized machine. It is an aftermarket cut car. It will is being valued as such. This car is not worth any more than one of the cars Sheehan cut in the 80's. There is no double standard except in your head. The owner may spout off all he wants about Italy and prototype and whatever else he wants, but the market is still going to value this simply as a cut Daytona. I see nothing wrong with this. Its a beautiful car and if done really well I would rather have a cut car at 1/3 the price of a "real" one anyway. Then again, I dont care what others think of the car or what its ultimate collectibility may be but just how good it looks to me and how much fun it is to drive. | ||
| Omar (O. H. B.) (Auraraptor)
Junior Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 58 Registered: 9-2002 |
As far buying the car to get noticed....some of us buy fars because we think they are pretty and evoke a sense of joy. The feeling I had when I first sat in a TR was undescribable. I was in heaven with a smile from one end to another on my face | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3753 Registered: 2-2001 |
Incidently Guys, These questions that I put forth here are not my opinions but strictly food for thought, and how you see them in relation to your life with your Ferrari. Maybe I should have said this earlier. Anyway a good thread with your posts. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 488 Registered: 5-2002 |
Terry, my concern for the e-bay Daytona is not just that it is a "cut car". The concern is that it was "cut" in Italy, which, judging by the seller's description, makes it just as good as a factory authorized Ferrari conversion just because it was done at the Scaglietti factory as were the factory authorized conversions. As LWayne indicated in another thread, conversions done at the Scaglietti factory without the authorization and blessings of the Ferrari factory, are not held in the same light of high regard as factory authorized conversions. Sorry this went over you, I hope my clarification is sufficient. | ||
| David Jones (Dave)
Member Username: Dave Post Number: 485 Registered: 4-2001 |
Well the dinner was great... Burp! And I have plenty more Coronas to kill as I sit in my fancy 114 year old house wondering if a Daytona spyder will fit in my daughters room now that she has moved out... Hmmm, how to get the Daytona up to the second story. | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 342 Registered: 4-2002 |
Arlie, Sorry the reference to housing as part of a more general inference toward a specific attitude and lifestyle threw you such a curve. I think it was fairly clear my point was not that fancy homes are a true representation of a persons value in the eyes of others but instead may perhaps simply be another indication of someone living beyond their means due to an irrational need to present a particular image due to a fixation on what others think. Sorry this went over you, I hope my clarification is sufficient. Also, there is no double standard being applied to the cut Daytona in the ebay ad. This car will be valued by the market as a cut car. A real Daytona Spyder would bring $375K - $450K. I would be very surprised if the car referenced breaks $120K. If its being valued in line with all the other non-factory created Daytona convertibles out there, where is this magical double standard you are fixed on proving and is apparently driving you insane? | ||
| Todd (Tkrefeld)
Junior Member Username: Tkrefeld Post Number: 86 Registered: 11-2001 |
Geez Jerry, haven't you been following the post about newness?? It's not a tube. It's a CRT, LCD, or Plasma... ;) | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 323 Registered: 7-2001 |
Anyone know when that Charlie Brown Christmas special is on the tube? | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 344 Registered: 1-2002 |
Getting back to Magoo's original question "aren't we really a bunch of characters who like to be noticed?" Many of us are answering NO. I know one guy who bought a Ferrari to be seen in. He bought the newest, most expensive one that the bank would let him buy. I wouldn't take a check for $100 from him. I know of another guy who bought his first Ferrari with cash and sold it a few months later because he couldn't deal with the attention he got. Took a bath on the car, but just wanted his privacy back. I think most of us fall in between. I'm closer to the second guy than the first. When we are young we tend to make more judgements about people's wealth from their appearance. As we age, experience teaches us better. I am to the point where I actually suspect someone who "looks rich" is not rich at all. IMO it is a great thing to be able to afford almost anything yet be happy with something less than you can afford. I chose my 328 because that's what I want, not because it's all I can afford and that makes owning it all the more pleasurable. Dave | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 487 Registered: 5-2002 |
Terry, you need to reread your posting of 3:03pm. Here it is: "In my work as a mortgage banker I see the intimate details of hundreds of people. The people who live in the fancy house, dress fancy and drive the latest/greatest fancy car are usually up to their eyeballs in debt and just barely able to finance their lifestyle. " See the words, "fancy HOUSE". Those were your EXACT words. So why would you say that you weren't talking about houses. It came from YOUR posting. Speaking of double standards, here is a great one. On another thread, somebody is discussing the 1967 Daytona prototype on E-bay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1874633035 Here is some of what the seller is saying about the car in reference to its spyder conversion from a coupe. "This car was definitely done in Italy...and not in the U.S. Likewise the work took place in 1970. It was done exactly the same way as the 121 cars that ferrari sent to Scaglietti to be converted into Spyders as all cars were originally built as coupes with the convertible conversion being done only after they left the factory as coupes." So this guy is selling his Daytona that was converted to a Spyder in Italy, but it was NOT DONE WITH FERRARI FACTORY authorization. The seller even says so. Once again, the sellers words: "Chassis number 11929 is an ORIGINAL DAYTONA COUPE PROTOTYPE. Ferrai never authorized the conversion from coupe to Spyder for the 365 GTB/4 Daytona Ferrari produced 121 Original Daytona Spyder and 1260 Original Daytona Coupe" The above just verifys one of the double standards that were discussed earlier on another thread. If Joe Bigshot has a car that was rebodied without factory authorization, its great. If Joe Average rebodies his car without factory authorization, then its a hack job. I couldn't ask for a better example of a double standard. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 357 Registered: 4-2002 |
I would say someone having an F-car is almost certainly NOT wealthy .... at least, not after servicing it. ;) lol! | ||
| Todd (Tkrefeld)
Junior Member Username: Tkrefeld Post Number: 85 Registered: 11-2001 |
I have a freind in REal Estate and also one who works in a large home improvement store. In training, they have both told me that one of the first things they were taughtwas this: Do not go along with the watches and shoes ideal, basing someones financial worth on that. Do not judge on someones appearance(this is sales). In the home improvement store they were told some of the highest spenders are often very dirty/grubby looking on a regular basis and seems as if they don't have a pot to piss in, and a large percentage of the shoplifters they catch are dressed VERY nicely. The dirty guys are working and making the money and have it to spend. In real-estate loans my friend was shown statistics that many who come in a fancy SUV and J crew couldn't get financing for a pencil, and some of the dirtiest looking people are as rich as rooselvelt. I remeber a few years ago meeting a guy with messed hair, dirty overauls, and driving a dented Dodge Neon. I visiting the secretay at a private school, and assumed he was maintenance. Let I found out he one of the most respectedsurgeons in the state, and donates so much money to the school that he actually kept them afloat at one point. A lot of rambling, but I do agree about appearances. Yes they do matter, but anyone shallow enough to make that the deciding factor I feel sorry for. You are really going to miss out on some great people and experiences. Old Ferrari you say. New Ferrari you say. Who cares..Buy what YOU want and makes YOU happy and alow people to get to know your individuality and style. Billions of people in the world. Living to impress and make them happy is going to make for one hell of a stessful and unhappy life. Also, with regards to some wealthy people I know, most could care less about cars, and don't even want anyone to know their rich. If they buy a car is is an old Pierc Arrow or something like that. THings are not as they seem, and the world is full of BS. Make yourself happy and don't worry about others....guarantee they are not worrying about you. | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 341 Registered: 4-2002 |
Arlie said: So you're saying that people WILL buy a fancy 10, 25, 50, or 100 year old house to improve their image, but that my thought about their buying a 20 year old Ferrari sports car to improve their image is "NUTS". Actually I didnt mention houses at all. I have no idea where your getting that. I also didnt mention anything about old cars and status symbols one way or another as a general reference. My point is that if your buying anything for "status" then perhaps you have a serious self image problem. As to your fixation with double standards, I would submit that as hard as you are apparently looking for such alleged double standards you will find more pretty much everywhere. I doubt you would be happy with a Ferrari as you would always be worried it was not "right" in your own or a total strangers mind in some way. Im having a hard time buying your arguements. They smack too much of a simple troll. | ||
| Paul (Pcelenta)
Junior Member Username: Pcelenta Post Number: 229 Registered: 7-2002 |
so the young punk on the cell phone I saw the other day in the new 360 spyder is the real money? Please...I don't mind being 25 years late on my 308...infact, I wouldn't mind being a little later with another ferrari "production" car like a daytona...and by the way...no one with Real Money wore polyester back then... | ||
| djmonk (Davem)
Junior Member Username: Davem Post Number: 155 Registered: 1-2002 |
Can you do an intervention on the web!? | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 486 Registered: 5-2002 |
BretM, by your line of logic, someone shouldn't say anything about smoking crack cocaine until they've tried it, correct? I mean by your logic, you should have at least tried one or two illegal mind altering drugs before you dare to make comments about addictive drugs in general. Hey Dave, when will the enchiledas be ready? I'm off work at 8PM. I could be over to eat by 8:15PM. But then again, since I don't live in Mexico, I'm sure that I couldn't make any statements concerning Mexican cuisine. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 355 Registered: 4-2002 |
David, that sounds good. Any special ingredients in your Enchiladas? I do so love good Mexican food. | ||
| David Jones (Dave)
Member Username: Dave Post Number: 484 Registered: 4-2001 |
Boys, boys.... I have had enough of your quibbling. You want some food for thought? I'm sucking back a cool Corona Extra as we speak, while a pan full of Enchiladas cooks in the oven... to be accompanied by Spanish rice and black beans on the side, and tacos to boot. | ||
| djmonk (Davem)
Junior Member Username: Davem Post Number: 154 Registered: 1-2002 |
Mitchell. Im not sure Arlie likes Ferrari's. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 354 Registered: 4-2002 |
Hey guys, relax. We all like Ferrari's here. Our reasons may vary, but the passion is the same. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 3090 Registered: 2-2001 |
Saying because you own one particular Ferrari doesn't allow you to understand what is involved in ownership in general is a bit of a stretch, but if that's how you feel then shouldn't someone that doesn't own any Ferrari not be talking at all about them, needless to say making decisive, offensive comments... In your argument against double standards you present the largest double standard so far, do you think before you make these comments? | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 485 Registered: 5-2002 |
Terry said: "They are also stressed out to the max as they sweat what everyone else is thinking of them and what can they finance next to improve this image." So you're saying that people WILL buy a fancy 10, 25, 50, or 100 year old house to improve their image, but that my thought about their buying a 20 year old Ferrari sports car to improve their image is "NUTS". Once again, another double standard. Will they ever end??? | ||
| Michael Zaic (Mikez_nj)
New member Username: Mikez_nj Post Number: 7 Registered: 12-2002 |
Re: The ideology of non-owners I think many people who have Ferraris now had that same ideology when they didn't have one. Some probably still do, despite the fact that they are difficult to maintain. I find it just as humorous that people own Ferraris for status. To each his own, I suppose. That's really what this thread is about anyway! | ||
| Terry Springer (Tspringer)
Member Username: Tspringer Post Number: 340 Registered: 4-2002 |
Man Arlie, I couldnt disagree more. I dont own a Ferrari because of what anyone else may or may not think. I could care less. I pay a service to mow my lawn so the wife wont •••••. I wear whatever I want, jeans and a sweater today. I never wear a suit or tie, ever. I work when I want too and answer to nobody (except of coarse the wife, I mean lets get real). My choice of cars is all about what turns me on. How it looks, drives and sounds. Sometimes this does get attention. The 308GTB indeed draws attention almost every time I get gas. At first I did not like this and its still a bother at times but the flip side is you meet lots of nice people. I also have a '69 Porsche 911S hotrod that is very fast and handles like a go-cart, 225hp and 2100lb is a quick car. It is loud and also gets attention. However, my daily driver is a 1989 Isuzu Trooper with 160K miles on it and a bashed in passenger side door. It looks horrible and though my wife hates it I could care less what people think of it. Not everyone is so hung up on other peoples perceptions. On some reflection, most of the "well off" people I know are more the type who actually do not care one bit what others think. They dont dress fancy, often dont own fancy homes and usually spend their money on seeming eccentric things that suit their personal taste. In my work as a mortgage banker I see the intimate details of hundreds of people. The people who live in the fancy house, dress fancy and drive the latest/greatest fancy car are usually up to their eyeballs in debt and just barely able to finance their lifestyle. They are also stressed out to the max as they sweat what everyone else is thinking of them and what can they finance next to improve this image. I do cash-out refinances for people like this all the time paying off $100K in credit card debt that is the by-product of their absurd lifestyle. Your old car = yesterdays rich guy status symbol but todays poser wannabe standin is nuts. Remember the line in the movie Gone in 60 Seconds: If I buy a Ferrari 360 Spyder then I am just Pretentious.... but if I buy a 275GTB I am a Connoisseur... My next car is either going to be a Daytona or a Vintage Porsche 550 Spyder replica. I wont own either because of what they cost, represent in status or of what others may think, but just because they light my fire. Buying any car based on what it may or may not cause others to think of you is indicative of a serious self worth problem IMHO. I got a news flash for you: Others dont think about you anywhere near as much as you think they do. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 484 Registered: 5-2002 |
BretM said: "And another thing, what do you really know about Ferraris? I laugh my ass off when I read non owners talking ideologically about Ferraris," Not trying to throw Bret's words at him, or picking on him specifically, but just because somebody owns a 308 Ferrari, does that mean they have the knowledge or experience to discuss 1962 GTOs, or 250LMs, or F50s or whatever? If I can't say anything about a Ferraris unless I own one, shouldn't a 308 owner not say anything about other Ferraris unless he owns one of those? Once again, what's good for the goose should be good for the gander. Or have I run across yet another Ferrari double standard? | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 350 Registered: 4-2002 |
Des, you don't need to say you own a Sentra every post, we remember. (I remember while in my Mitsubishi!) lol | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 349 Registered: 4-2002 |
Jerry, I think you are too self conscious. Relax, here is a secret. They don'y care / know / want to know you and are not going to talk about you later in the week. ;) They might remember the car though ;) | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Junior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 137 Registered: 8-2002 |
Jerry, That's a very valid point; a friend of mine says i'm constantly looking at the cars next to me, when i'm driving (in my Sentra) but i do that in my Uncle's beamer and my Aunt's Navigator as well as my bosses wife's Mercedes- like you said, i'm scopin' for hot chicks and i'm perpetually in search of someone who might wanna take off, from the line, to get see who gets to the next light, first. i am truly the same person, no matter what i'm driving (however, if it's the BMW i'm driving, i'm still the same person, just in front of you, the whole time ) | ||
| Jerry W. (Tork1966)
Member Username: Tork1966 Post Number: 319 Registered: 7-2001 |
There are obviously going to be a LOT of different opinions on this so let's not get heated about someone else's views or try to convince others of yours. If I may go astray a bit...do you guys feel like if you look at other drivers when you are at a light or something that they will think that you are looking at them to see if they are looking at you. In other words, I hardly ever glance around at other drivers in my F as I do in my Trail Blazer (scoping out the hot chicks or whatever). I feel that people will think that I am just trying to see who is looking at me. Therefore, I'm sure I come across as snooty because I just look straight ahead. Anyone else feel this way? | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 3087 Registered: 2-2001 |
Sorry my mistake, you said wannabe instead of poser, that changes everything. The Corvette is simply an example of a car that is new, and hence no longer useless as old ones are as you suggest, you could throw 350Z, M3, etc in there if you would like to instead. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 3086 Registered: 2-2001 |
And another thing, what do you really know about Ferraris? I laugh my ass off when I read non owners talking ideologically about Ferraris, they're so great, perfect, etc. I'm not picking on your dreams, cause all the young guys here I hope the best for you and that you get a Ferrari, it's worth it. It sure aint like having an angel though. It's like a woman, they're all a pain in the ass so you might as well have a hot one. There's a reason everyone doesn't get a Ferrari, it isn't an easy car to live with to be honest. That said, is it worth it? Absolutely, to me. For every guy like me though I know a dozen more that wouldn't put up with it though. I think owning an older Ferrari shows you want it that much more, cause God knows it's a lot more work than owning a new 360. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 483 Registered: 5-2002 |
Matt, read Tillman's posting of 1:38 pm to understand the reference to "bored". And DES said: "i couldn't give a sh!t what people think when they see me, it's not about other people, it's about me." No need to direct the comment specifically at me DES because, once again, I must remind everybody that Magoo started the thread with comments like: "Isn't it a boost to our ego to own one and it is not like having a Vette that everybody else has. Aren't we really a bunch of characters who like to be noticed?" What's up with you guys? Magoo makes a comment that I agree with so everybody acts like I started the whole thread and jumps on my case??? And BretM, I have never mentioned the words "Corvette" or "poser" in this entire thread. What are you babbling about? | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 3085 Registered: 2-2001 |
Mitchell I think the Ultima weighs in around low 2000s, I'm surprised the Mosler weighs less even though it is more user friendly, ie accomodating to the driver. I thought it weighed like 2300lbs, impressive, I'd still take the Ultima though since it costs a small fraction of what the Mosler costs, but that's just me. Arlie, so it is wrong to drive a $300k Cobra, but alright to drive a $675k Enzo because it's newer... No ones making an argument for older cars being better as a whole, they just contain infinitely more character and require more of the driver than newer cars do. People are arguing with you because you make a ridiculous comment like "you guys are posers" because we don't buy a run of the mill new Corvette and instead opt for something special to us. I didn't know it made you a poser for getting something that meant a lot to you. And I highly doubt anyone on here is trying to pretend he is rich uncle pennybags drive a 308, so how many of us really are posers as you generalize? | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Junior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 134 Registered: 8-2002 |
William... Our opinions on new vs. old BMWs, Cadillacs and the like may differ, but our taste in supercars is like a sysygy...! If you asked me to make the decision FOR you, i wouldn't be able to. Please let me know which one you decide on- the F40, the Carerra GT or the Saleen. Arlie, if you're so concerned with being at the top of the food chain, why do you continually portray yourself as being at the bottom...? A few times a year, my uncle lets me drive his 530i and i get in and out of it the same as i do my Sentra- i couldn't give a sh!t what people think when they see me, it's not about other people, it's about me. As far as taking a modern car over a classic, i have to say (and i know i'll get some death threats for this one) that i'd take a 360 over 'Eleanor' in a heartbeat, but that's just my taste. Don't get me wrong, Eleanor is a beautiful car and i'd give my reproductive organ to be alone with her, for a day, but the 360 whets my appetite just that much more. | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 941 Registered: 8-2002 |
Magoo....are you the bored one? Not sure what this means but Horsefly wanted someone to ask. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 482 Registered: 5-2002 |
Notice the contradiction in everyone's logic. The CONSTANT theme is that Ferraris are made to be driven and that the true enthusiast will DRIVE them. Now everybody is saying that the older cars are really at the top of the food chain; like the GTOs and the 427SC Cobras. Well tell me this everybody, how are you going to AFFORD to INSURE a 3 million dollar GTO or a $300,000 427SC Cobra or others and actually DRIVE the thing??? You can't contradict yourself and say that the older, rarer cars are better to have and then NOT be able to drive them! I would think that it would be better to have a 308 and drive it like everybody always talks about over owning a museum piece that is so valuable that you are afraid to take it to the streets. Don't forget that Magoo originated this thread with the exact same thought: "Are we the guys who buy the hand me downs from the big spenders and think we are as classy and uptown as they are?" Why not ask if Magoo is the bored one???? | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 347 Registered: 4-2002 |
Bret, the Ultima WITH ENGINE is less than 1900lb's? I find that hard to believe. Besides, it's ugly! ;) (IMHO of course) | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 3080 Registered: 2-2001 |
Utlima GTR would be worth checking too. Like $80k with a 6.0L LS6 (SBC). Could easily have Lingenfelter make a 700hp monster if not more for you. Weighs less than the Mosler I think and costs a hell of a lot less. It is a true track car though made for the street, you might be able to get A/C but don't expect roll down windows etc. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 346 Registered: 4-2002 |
William, have you considered a Mosler Photon with a 700hp engine? The best track car you could buy and still drive on the street from time to time IMHO. Though, the 962 would sure be awesome as well. | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1648 Registered: 2-2001 |
DES I have my 40th Bday coming up in 13 months so I want to buy myself something spectatcular to mark the occasion, Besides I havent made my mind up yet Porsche 962 or an F40LM are at the top of the list, we'll see how I feel next fall Arlie a 275GTB4 is still a hell of a car. I am a lot more impressed with a 275GTB4 or a Daytona or a 512BBi than I am by a 360 spyder. The classic cars are cheaper for the moment but you have to be a real tifosi to put up with lousy AC, a hot cockpit, & questionable electronics. The 360 just doesnt do it forme, 550, 575 is a little better but the MB 55SL is the only new sportscar i'd buy. For the same $275-300k I'd take an F40 over a 360 spyder any day of the week. The F40 is a SERIOUS sports racer, the 360 is todays starlet, within 5 years you'll be able to pick 1 up for half the price & it performs nowhere near the F40 New is not necesarily better. Look at the new BMWs with that awful design vs the outgoing models or how about todays nasty caddy's vs the caddys of the 60s. then there r jags, I'd take an E-type over an XKR in a heartbeat | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 3079 Registered: 2-2001 |
Arlie I think you're missing the whole point, which is probably why you don't have a Ferrari yet, or will never have one. You present such a shaky, somewhat ridiculous, argument. The top of the food chain? A 1965 Shelby Cobra 427SC is still at the top of the food chain, how would you value that car? Kind of contradicting your old = no longer relevant. What about a 250GTO? They're faster than all but the highest of sports cars nowadays... still pretty damn close to the top of your food chain. What about a GT40 like James' on this site... Is that not on the top of the chain anymore? It's pretty old though... The basis for your argument is like a block of swiss cheese. Oh wait, I'm a poser though because I bought a 15 year old Ferrari, which happens to be arguably the best platform around for making an extremely fast sports car. Tube frame, mid engined, great suspension geometry, light, enough parts around.... but wait, when you make a 308 faster than a new Corvette around a track it's still not relevant because the 308 will originally have been 15 years older... maybe the guy that just lost will agree with you to try to rationalize to himself... | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 340 Registered: 1-2002 |
Arlie, I do wear torn though usually clean clothes. My lawn gets mowed when I feel like it and I relish the dandelions in it because they are pretty and piss off the neighbors. I have a business which deals with mostly very well off, self made people. The vast majority drive mundane vehicles, wear mundane clothes and have nice but not overly large houses. You can't judge someone's wealth by what they look like. In fact, I've grown to believe that people who "look rich" are often the true wannabes and can't come up with $1000 without whipping out a credit card. I could write a check today for any new Ferrari on the market. I like my 328 just fine, than you. Dave | ||
| Jeff (Jeff_m)
New member Username: Jeff_m Post Number: 32 Registered: 9-2002 |
Magoo, I think you are right on, I find it hard that many people say they bought there Ferrari for themselves and don't care what anyone else thinks. If that is the case, what are you buying, build quality, Horsepower, for tripple the price? I agree witht the nice lines but come on.Also I think there are a few classes of owners. Ones that scraped by to purchase, ones that are pretty well off and the payment doesn't make much difference and people that can buy the 170 plus cars and not think twice. I think about it all the time and sometimes think that the Ferrari could be a nice downpayment on a beach house that would actually appreciate in value and why do I keep it? Who knows, I think it has been a good experience but not the end all be all. | ||
| Tillman Strahan (Tillman)
Junior Member Username: Tillman Post Number: 217 Registered: 11-2001 |
"when they were REALLY relevent and you were at the top of the food chain" Arlie, I still don't understand your obsession with this point of view. I own my car because I wanted it. I could not care less about relevance and food chains. I like the feel of the car, I like the go-cart handling, I like looking at it, and I like letting my friends drive it. None of that has anything to do with anyone else, nor anyone else's opinions of me. Hell, most people at work don't even know I own the thing. It's not about them, or about impressing them. Do you have a point, or are you just bored? | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 345 Registered: 4-2002 |
Horesfly, that's why you have an Enzo on the way. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 481 Registered: 5-2002 |
Raleigh, I think it's like this. Which is more important; to be 60 years old and have a spare $100,000, or somehow be able to turn back time and be 16 years old and have a spare $1000? I think most people would rather own something when it is current and relevent. Would anybody get excited that they were finally able to afford a COLOR television set in 2002? Doubtful. Probably YES back in 1965, but not 37 years too late. Does a guy get excited when he buys a 275GTB for $200,000 in 2002? I guess he probably does. But I would have rather been driving one back in 1967 when they were REALLY relevent and you were at the top of the food chain. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 344 Registered: 4-2002 |
Magoo, as we should. I would venture to guess that the most any of us have in common is a love of Ferrari / exotic cars. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3745 Registered: 2-2001 |
Amazing, The many different opinions and how we see ourselves in relation to our Ferraris or dreams of having one. | ||
| Ton Visser (Lion315)
New member Username: Lion315 Post Number: 43 Registered: 12-2002 |
I agree! | ||
| David Lewis (Davidlewis)
New member Username: Davidlewis Post Number: 21 Registered: 2-2002 |
I do care what people think and am careful how I dress. My sports car obsessions are a different animal. I don't indulge in sports cars for other people - it's entirely selfish. Having owned sports cars all my life, it is my hobby, my recreation, my sports. I've owned about 3 dozen, mostly Alfa's, Triumphs, Jags, and made good money on most at resale. This process allowed me to afford an Fcar. Although I am very proud and fortunate to own an Fcar, most people that know me didn't realize I had one for the first several years(word eventually leaked out). I also purposely selected a subtle color. I guess I'm saying I would be happy to own/drive an "invisible" Fcar only I could see (that'd be great for avoiding Smokey!). I don't really care about "being seen" and almost never see the gawkers. I very much agree with Dave328 below. For me it is all about the total sensory experience. I am open-minded about Pcars, Ccars, Jcars, you name it.... but I haven't been able to surpass the fix I get from Maranello products. | ||
| Raleigh Smith (288gto)
Junior Member Username: 288gto Post Number: 61 Registered: 10-2002 |
Horsefly, are you saying that those who own 275's, Daytonas, or F40's are just 30 to 40 years too late? What about a 67 427 Vette, or a 427 Cobra? Too late and wanna bes on those as well. I don't think so. You get what you love. If you have to get an older car by a maker just to get your first taste then you buy a 308, 328, 348.... you get the point. There is no shame in buying an "affordable" Ferrari is you don't have the cash to get an Enzo. I don't think anyone goes "look at that old car," I think they say, "look it is a Ferrari." | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 342 Registered: 4-2002 |
Don't get me wrong, I care as much as any normal person what I look like etc.. however the old saying goes: "If we knew how seldom others thought of us, we wouldn't care so much about it." I love The 512TR, loved the TR when I was 11 (didn't care what other people thought about my car back then lol) Having people think I am either successful or a rich prick or a poor poser just goes along with the car. BTW, I DO drive around in a $1,500 car with some primer on it all day. I leave the corvette and Porsche at home for a nice drive in the evenings if I feel like it and it's not raining. I will do the same with my Ferrari in a year, or however long it takes me to find the right one. (Black 512TR anyone?) There are all kinds of people on this world. And not all of them care about impressing you. ;) | ||
| Ton Visser (Lion315)
New member Username: Lion315 Post Number: 42 Registered: 12-2002 |
Although I am actually someone FROM the crowd. It gives me a chance to break away. | ||
| Ton Visser (Lion315)
New member Username: Lion315 Post Number: 41 Registered: 12-2002 |
Common cars are for the crowd. I find the air better when I am out of the crowd. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1727 Registered: 6-2001 |
Ed Gault would have something to say about this. I wonder the same thing too, if something is usually a problem, why deal with it if there are much more practical alternatives. If ferrari made a car that was as practical and reliavle as the vette, would you still want one? what if i was as common as the vette too?? everyone already beat me to saying the good things. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 480 Registered: 5-2002 |
As I have said before in other places, it amazes me how many people will say that they don't care what other people think, yet they always make sure they never leave the house wearing dirty or torn clothing; always mow their lawn and keep their car washed; make sure their house is well kept so as not to be a neighborhood eyesore; etc. For a bunch of people who don't care what other people think, we sure go to alot of effort to look good in other peoples eyes. Can't speak for others, but if I REALLY didn't care what people thought of me, I would wear a 50 cent shirt, drive a $100 dollar car, and save alot of cash quicker and buy a new Ferrari. | ||
| Ton Visser (Lion315)
New member Username: Lion315 Post Number: 40 Registered: 12-2002 |
It's just about trying to break out of the crowd. The trick is to do that without a billion $$$$ in your account. | ||
| Tyler (Bahiaau)
Member Username: Bahiaau Post Number: 421 Registered: 12-2001 |
I buy the cars I like. What other people think of what I drive is not a consideration. Arlie, I agree that appearances do count. They count towards the first impression people form of you but they do not affect WHO you are. I also agree that there are "groups" of people who will look down on you for driving an older mass produced Ferrari. However, you can find snobbish groups anywhere and for everything not just cars. It wasn't that many years ago I played a round of golf at a club that didn't allow minority members of any kind(including Italians) and had some pretty selective religous policies as well. My point is that there will always be "people" who derive satisfaction from there lives by excluding others for any number of reasons. As far as fitting in with the uptown crowd, a new Ferrari won't cut it. The wealthiest people I know have 9 and 10 figure net worths and none of these people own Ferraris or have any desire to. Owning Ferraris is not a rich mans hobby, never has been. | ||
| Mitchel DeFrancis (4re308)
Member Username: 4re308 Post Number: 740 Registered: 6-2001 |
In the late 80s I was aquainted with a fellow who had a 250 Testa Rossa a pontoon fendered car, he raced it all the time, when he raced it, he crashed it a couple a times. When he was asked "Aren't you upset that you smacked up a multi million dollar car??". He calmly replied "I only paid $7500 for it in 1968, so that is basically what it is worth to me now...so I use it the way it is supposed to be used" I have always remembered that. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Junior Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 133 Registered: 8-2002 |
Not to side track, but William, what's keeping you from picking up a McLaren or a Carerra GT or an F40...? | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 933 Registered: 8-2002 |
Magoo, I have loved Ferrari's since I was 7. To me, there are no other cars that compare. Sure other cars can outperform a ferrari but it the heritage of Ferrari that is key to understanding the alure. When I purchased the 308, It was the best. I knew about the real problems and now the rumor problems. I did not get it for a midlife crisis or to pick up women, I got it to enjoy. What I was not anticipating the stares and gaulks. M | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1645 Registered: 2-2001 |
besides if we just wanted to show off our $ we'd just buy some POS Rolls Royce and tool around in that gar-barge. Somebody with a Mondial told me I should drive my 512TR every day like he does. The 512TR is a totally different animal, She's a pure bred rocket whereas the Mondial is Ferrari's family car. I would rather just drive her on the track 90% of the time & just cruise around on the odd ocassion | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1644 Registered: 2-2001 |
Hmm, In reality there just is no automobile i would choose over my 512TR, Yes I could go down to the dealer today & buy a Murcielago or a 575 and put the $ down on it but compared to the looks of the 512TR those other 2 leave me sort of cold. I dont really want people to know I can blow $300k on a car, besides it really doesnt make a lot of sense to me to drive a supercar on the road, although I drive the 512TR around once a week or so. Its just WAY too much car for downtown Miami which is why I usually tool around in a $12,000 Chevy Tahoe. When Ferrari builds another car similair to the 512TR I would consider buying it, I'm just not wild about their current cars, even the ENZO, I'd rather have an F40 or a Saleen or a Porsche Carrera GT | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1643 Registered: 2-2001 |
I used to think I bought sportscars to get more chicks, Now that I am older & wiser I realize I buy them cus I really dig them & I dont care what anybody else thinks. The 512TR is drop dead gorgeous, handles well, has some SERIOUS power & finally serious brakes too. I am in love!!!! Thats why I own her. Love & Passion. Tooling around in a pricey car is like walking with your hot GF in public, its ok but it gets tiring after w hile having everybody check out your GF, sometimes you just want some peace & quiet or in the case of the Ferrari a nice track to scream around on away from public eyes | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 2000 Registered: 9-2001 |
your talking about impressions and everyday norms - I am talking about character. If one college grad showed up in a a GTO and was a horse's ass to his collegues and lazy and one showed up in a beater pacer but was cool and willing to work his ass off, who you fire first - assuming the horse's ass would not let you borrow the GTO - LOL. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 339 Registered: 4-2002 |
Horsefly, I agree. I just don't care. Lol. You should see what I drive every day. Ferrari's are good fun. Nothing more, nothing less. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 338 Registered: 4-2002 |
Joseph, I would say 200k a year is "Well off" Rich is not really your income, but your net worth. You can make 35k a year as a teacher and be rich. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 476 Registered: 5-2002 |
But unfortunately, in the real world, people ARE based on their cars, their appearances, their houses, etc. There are plenty of farmers in overalls driving beat up trucks that have more character than you can shake a stick at, but that farmer wouldn't be allowed in the front door of the same restaurant that a GTO owner eats dinner at. Appearances DO count. Tell a young college graduate that it's allright to wear blue jeans and dirty sneakers to his first day of internship at his new job. I'm sure his CHARACTER will speak volumes more than his appearance. NOT! | ||
| Joseph (Mojo)
Junior Member Username: Mojo Post Number: 164 Registered: 9-2002 |
Mitchell What is your definition of rich? I know it's a relative word, but im thinking $200,000 a year. I wonder what everone thinks about this? | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Intermediate Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 1271 Registered: 4-2002 |
tom and arle round 2 ????? | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1999 Registered: 9-2001 |
I don't know, you would have to ask the person. If you want to judge and respect people based on the cars they drive - go ahead its a free country. I chose not to - I will focus more on their character | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 475 Registered: 5-2002 |
So I guess the owner of a 1962 Ferrari GTO would have equal respect and admiration for a 1962 Rambler 4 door or a 1962 Chevy low-rider? Since the age of the car doesn't matter, I guess they would all be equally admirable even if not equally valuable, correct???? | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 335 Registered: 4-2002 |
I would say the TRULY wealthy people don't drive the "new" Ferrari. They drive the car they WANT the most at any given time. A lot of the time the "new" crowd is a good 1/3rd posers with a little over 100k a year income and a lease. Of course, if you make 100k a year and want to lease a new Ferrari, go ahead. Just do it for the car, not to have people think your rich. That's a stupid reason to do ANYTHING. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 1998 Registered: 9-2001 |
yeah, lets put people in classes based on how old their cars are and whether they are state of the art. That would put old GTO owners in the gutter?????? | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 332 Registered: 4-2002 |
I just like the 512TR. Lol! | ||
| Tillman Strahan (Tillman)
Junior Member Username: Tillman Post Number: 216 Registered: 11-2001 |
I don't have a Ferrari because of what others think. I've never cared too much about what others think. I own a 328 because that's the car shape that I fell in love with as a kid. There's no question that there are other cars that make more sense, but a toy doesn't have to make sense. | ||
| Horsefly (Arlie)
Member Username: Arlie Post Number: 473 Registered: 5-2002 |
Magoo said: "Are we the guys who buy the hand me downs from the big spenders and think we are as classy and uptown as they are?" I think Magoo hit the nail on the head with that line. A friend of mine has made the same point to me many times. The people who have the REAL money and are REALLY uptown are the people who can afford the expensive cars TODAY, RIGHT NOW, when they are new and state of the art. You're not really UPTOWN if you can't afford the car until 20 years later. That just doesn't cut it. In reality, unless you're one of the rich NEW Ferrari buyers, you're just a WANNABE who is 20 years too late. Think about it this way. If the car came with a brand new suit of clothes in the trunk from the same year the car was made, would you just as proudly wear that suit of clothes? Wouldn't you look COOL riding around in your 308 Ferrari wearing your polyester leisure suit and wide lapel shirt with the open collar so that everybody could see your gold chains? Holy disco reject BATMAN!!! Unfortunately, you just can't be really uptown 20 years after the fact. Who was it that said, "You can't go home again"? | ||
| Robert McNair (Rrm)
Junior Member Username: Rrm Post Number: 177 Registered: 5-2002 |
In my case it is a passion. I know what I like! I don't care if others like it or not a Ferrari is pleasing to me to look at, hear, drive and even smell. I'm a behind the scenes kind of guy so I am not looking for attention. I have always loved the 308 since it came out, I started taking pictures of them at the age of 10 when I infrequently saw them in person. The first thing I did when I got my computer was type in 308gtsi on Yahoo. Ask anyone who knows me what my favorite car is and I guarantee you will unanimously hear 308gtsi. Sometimes I wish I loved a cheaper to own car but the fact is I don't. | ||
| Dave328GTB (Hardtop)
Member Username: Hardtop Post Number: 338 Registered: 1-2002 |
Magoo, I do not own a Ferrari to bring attention to myself. In fact, that is one of the down sides although I have learned to accept and even enjoy some of the encounters with gawkers. My wife and I actually live in a modest size home (with garage space for 6). We wear jeans and flannel shirts most of the time. We have never paid more than about 28K for a new vehicle. People often ask me why I have a Ferrari because it seems out of character to them. The answer is that I enjoy the Ferrari on many levels that other sports cars cannot provide. Ferraris are a total sensory experience. There are the gorgeous lines as you approach it, the smell when you open the door, the sound when you fire it up and the feel of the road in your hands and in your seat when you drive. I have never licked one, but I'll bet it tastes good too! Like many of you, I keep looking for something with all those attributes that costs less to own and attracts less attention (especially from the cops). So far, I have failed. Dave | ||
| Todd (Tkrefeld)
Junior Member Username: Tkrefeld Post Number: 84 Registered: 11-2001 |
Follow your heart...not your mind | ||
| Dom Vitarella (Dom)
New member Username: Dom Post Number: 16 Registered: 11-2002 |
I just love Italian cars. Why? I can't explain it. I've had a fiat, 2 Lancia's, 2 Alfa's, and now my first ferrari (308Gt4). I guess the cars have character (def for character: the black puddle in your driveway). Truth is I can't really define character. Can't explain it other than that. I hope to have other Italian cars (including other ferrari's) some day. Maybe a maserati or a lambo (miura). Lancia Stratos. Even the pantera strikes my fancy (boy I bet that ford V8 is reliable though). The maintenance issues are a sign of car loving. If you can put up with all of these issues, then you must really love cars. When I see someone in an italian car, I honk my horn. After all, this person is a car nut, or he wouldn't be driving that thing. My wife and friends think I'm nuts. I probably am. Dom | ||
| Joseph (Mojo)
Junior Member Username: Mojo Post Number: 160 Registered: 9-2002 |
Magoo the answer for me would be yes. that was a great thread question. everyone should stimulate there spiritual side with questions like that. (not religious side, spirit side) Most of us who think about stuff have these internal battles. Karma. | ||
| Mark (Markg)
Member Username: Markg Post Number: 324 Registered: 2-2001 |
Why do I own a Ferrari? Because I'm one of the ones born every minute, and I never get an even break. When my GTSi runs right, it is by far the best running car I have ever owned, but the expense and problems that crop up on a weekley basis out-weigh the fun, and it's pushing me towards Ed Gault's decision - dump it while the dumpings good. My 911S - which by the way was much more admired by 'common folks' than my F car - ran 100k miles trouble free. Ferrari's are certaintly beautifull works of art, do command respect in some circles, and can be a real challange to own and maintain. But, as a Chinese philosopher friend of mine advised - if you want a Ferrari just for an Ego boost in public, take up body building: it's cheaper, healthier and goes with you everywhere, not just the parking lots. He should know, he was a body building exotic car owner.... | ||
| Ken Ghiringhelli (Kenny94945)
New member Username: Kenny94945 Post Number: 6 Registered: 12-2002 |
Well....in my case it is the performance and "Hot Wheels" look. If I may, As a youngster, I had a beautiful toy car collection. My "favs" we the sporty/ fast looking cars. As I grew and became involved with motorcycle (both road and dirt) and 327 and 427 Chevrolet engine chromed out "Hot Rods" and joined the auto repair business, my love of auto sport/ hobby grew, including polishing the chrome. Further, I enjoy open wheel racing, technology, and as the car hobbist I am today, a Ferrari tone, mid engine, aluminum pedals (stock), drilled discs etc, for me, is how a car should be. I prefer a vehicle that responds for accident avoidance instead of accident survival. Bottomline: My car must handle at the top limits of street car technology. Perk: The mechanical sound of a V12. P.S. Please do not flame me. If Hyundai made a version/ copy of a 512TR....would I have to change On-Line Community's. . | ||
| Michael Zaic (Mikez_nj)
New member Username: Mikez_nj Post Number: 4 Registered: 12-2002 |
Charlie: I guess you really like women. Frank: Above all things. A very, very distant second is a Ferrari. -Scent of a Woman That pretty much sums it up for me. A Ferrari isn't a car to me - I'm not a car buff or anything - it's more a symbol of a perfect being. There's an aesthetic value that's indescribable, a giddy feeling you get similar to the one you got when you met the woman you loved. Now, I'm far from owning a Ferrari, but I've spent many days and nights looking through the show windows of Algar Ferrari in PA. The feeling of just looking at them is enough to keep me there for a half hour. The roar of the engine is enough to make me stop in the middle of the Vegas strip and just watch. I can't imagine how it feels to actually be in one! Nah, I don't want it to raise my ego or to show off money. I want it because it is perfection; it's a little slice of heaven left on earth. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3448 Registered: 5-2001 |
Wayne, I would love to know what your dream Ferrari is. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3446 Registered: 5-2001 |
Yes, it is an ego trip and yes, I enjoy it. I love the car and what it is. I can not say that the "expense" is that much more than any other car. Just got a bill for a pully and belt on my Jeep that cloncked out on me yesterday. $322.61 was done in a few minutes. The belt was $ 52.28, pretty much the same that a 348 belt costs. The two pullys were $87.20, okay way less than the Ferrari price. Still my car has not had any serious work done this year. | ||
| L. Wayne Ausbrooks (Lwausbrooks)
Member Username: Lwausbrooks Post Number: 555 Registered: 8-2002 |
I'm with Jeff on this one. The reason I DON'T own a Ferrari yet is that I don't have the available cash it takes to buy that which will make me say, "I LIKE IT!!" It's not good enough to simply own any F-car so that others are impressed. | ||
| Jeffrey Davison (Jeffdavison)
New member Username: Jeffdavison Post Number: 31 Registered: 7-2002 |
just a rather simple reason for me..... If ya'll remember the original RoboCop Movie when the actor - that plays Dr. Ramano in ER (forgot his name - Mckearn - McCrain something like that)- one of the baddies in anycase, he finds a really high powered blaster rifle in the trunk of a car, he then shoots it and blows up a gas station with one shot.. he says in a really orgasmic tone " I LIKE IT !!" well, thats the same feeling that I get when I drive my 355........ ;^P Jeff Davison | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 808 Registered: 12-2001 |
My concern is one day I will think Im silly for putting up with the expense and some frustration so Ill sell it. Then Ill regret selling it and forget about the bad things. At this point though, I dont want to be without a ferrari and I want to experience many more. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 3068 Registered: 2-2001 |
I run this question through my head everyday, and I manage to narrowly convince myself the Ferrari is the best choice, everyday mind you I do this. I must be insane. Back to the point though. There are two other cars I would own in place of the Ferrari, as possible substitutes. A ZO6 Corvette would be cool, but I guess not edgy enough for my only sports car. Yes, it is not uncommon to have a 500rwhp Corvette and that is most certainly edgy, but I'm not so into the drag racing thing and I guess the Vette is just a bit too common. Plus, it's as big as a whale. Makes you 360 guys look small. I liked the C4 size a lot more even though it obviously can't compare performance wise. All this indecision makes the Corvette probably a car I would not like over the Ferrari. Plus, they replace the Corvette every few years and then I would not have the latest and would have an old Corvette, which is kind of like having a Volvo, even more common place. Choice number 2 is a big block (514 is biggest Ford crate motor, might have to have someone work on that to narrow the gap btw it and the 572 Chevy they recently came out with) 427SC Cobra replica. It would make over 700hp, be literally unGodly, it would have no God, possibly would worship Satan, would be near uncontrollable, and hands down the fastest car I'd ever own or come across on the street. BUT as I explain to myself, if I am to have one sports car it will most certainly not be a replica. No matter how fast it is, it is still a replica and everytime someone asks "Is it real?" my answer would unfortunately be no, which would make me sad. Therefore this will be my car to park next to the 308 should I ever be sucessful. The other reason I feel the 308 is good to keep around is that I like my job and it seems to be an appropriate ride under those circumstances. Plus, modifying the 308 is infinitely more interesting than bolting on something like you do if you own a Corvette. With the 308 you actually have to use your head to go faster and not just be able to read and open your wallet. So, the 308 wins by default. | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3739 Registered: 2-2001 |
Why do we like our Ferraris? They certainly are a lot of aggravation and expensive to service. Is it because we want to be the guy who drives the "untouchable" and we like the expression on the others guys face when he says, "You own a Ferrari?" Isn't it a boost to our ego to own one and it is not like having a Vette that everybody else has. Aren't we really a bunch of characters who like to be noticed? Are we the guys who buy the hand me downs from the big spenders and think we are as classy and uptown as they are? Just Food For Thought...... |