| Author | Message | ||
| David Jones (Dave)
Member Username: Dave Post Number: 506 Registered: 4-2001 |
I still enjoy the car that coined the term "supercar" in 1966...the Lamborghini Miura. Many "supercars" have come and gone since then progressively getting faster and faster, but nun since are anywhere near as sexy. Back then a "supercar" cost $19k, and in that 36 years since, top speed in a supercar has increased what, about 48mph... but the cost has increased oh say $900k. I guess I'm just an old fogie stuck on old cars. | ||
| RyanK (Ryanab)
Junior Member Username: Ryanab Post Number: 179 Registered: 3-2002 |
I feel that Ferrari should have designed the Enzo to be the worlds fastest car, hence overturning the Mclaren. If your going to design a supercar, it had better be the fastest. That alone sends a message to the world. "SUPERCAR". Even though many owners/drivers would never realize that top speed anyday, it does not hurt to be on top. I would pick up an Enzo provided I had the money. Most who dismiss the Enzo merely on looks, would do a 180 if they saw in person. Remember the body is fully functional and built for speed, not beauty. It will take some time to grow on people, but it will be accepted.. Go Enzo. Ryan PS, Will and David, please continue your war of words via e-mail and keep it off of here. Spare us.. | ||
| RyanK (Ryanab)
Junior Member Username: Ryanab Post Number: 178 Registered: 3-2002 |
top | ||
| John A. Suarez (Futureowner)
Member Username: Futureowner Post Number: 309 Registered: 3-2002 |
I just want to see the lap times that the Enzo will pull. Would be nice to compare the times of the Enzo with those of a McLaren on several tracks. | ||
| David Jones (Dave)
Member Username: Dave Post Number: 504 Registered: 4-2001 |
Which personal statements did I bring up Will? I think it was you that first offered up the fact that your house wasn't paid for, I simply replied that mine was. Now for your Personal Attacks on me.... Lets see, I'm arrogant... Yes. I'm fat.... 6 foot 200lbs .... No I'm Bald.... getting that way, but wear my hair cut very short, so I'll give you that one. I'm unmannered.... well your the one typing all the obscenities, so I will say, No I'm classless....guess I'm just not in the same class with you, so No. I'm rude.... did I interrupt you typing your words, no I waited my turn, so No. I'm a hillbilly.... lets see I was born in California and lived there most of my life, then relocated to Arkansas, so once more, No. You know Will, If I didn't know any better I would say that your probably a 15 year old boy playing on your dads computer. | ||
| WMontgomery (Fiorano1999)
Junior Member Username: Fiorano1999 Post Number: 79 Registered: 11-2002 |
You are simply an idiot David who cannot participate in a discussion without making personal statements. The fact that you are arrogant, fat, bald, umnmannered, classless, rude and a hillbilly just ices the cake. Stick your Christmas up your fat pimpled ass while having your Hoilday Whattaburger. Will | ||
| David Jones (Dave)
Member Username: Dave Post Number: 499 Registered: 4-2001 |
By the way... Merry Christmas! | ||
| David Jones (Dave)
Member Username: Dave Post Number: 498 Registered: 4-2001 |
So what are you trying to say Will? Did I hit a sore spot? Very testy for someone that don't give a ••••. Maybe a little more fiber in your diet will help with that problem... Maybe my sister, I mean my wife can mix up a pile 'O' grits, and you can bring one of your fancy cars over and grace our trailer with your cunning wit and elegant speak. Later on if you let the cousins take turns sitting in your fancy car, I might bring out the moonshine. | ||
| Ernesto (T88power)
Member Username: T88power Post Number: 945 Registered: 2-2001 |
greaseball... | ||
| WMontgomery (Fiorano1999)
Junior Member Username: Fiorano1999 Post Number: 76 Registered: 11-2002 |
David, This is a forum for opinions but unfortunately your points are senseless enough to not merit continuing a discussion. But, LOL, to pursue your (il)logical and derogatory thought process: The F14 has a high top speed too but would make a lousy street car - so why does top speed matter? That is as meaningful a comment as your top fuel dragster comment in the midst of a street car discussion. You have been to Maranello so you know everything about Ferrari's cost structure? No ••••! I've been there and I don't - damn - I missed that part of the tour. I'll bet you are the only American (beside me) to ever have a factory tour, huh Bubba? Definitely the only hillbilly from Little Fucking Rock. Does Luca get your two cents before they give a project the green light also? Does Michael call your for driving tips? Do a bunch of bragging at the Holiday Inn lounge don't you? Power to weight ratio - uhhhh - does that mean if you lost that 100 pound anchor around your keg gut and fat ass your old 308 might just stay with a FIAT 128? How do you fit in there anyway? Crisco? Karo? This thread was specifically about the Enzo specs and the politics thereof not an elementary and unrelated discussion of Speed 101. Good to hear you own the trailer you live in. Probably a senic view of Petit Jean or maybe in Booger Hollow with a Booger Burger? No one here really cares though. Repeat after me - WE DON'T GIVE A ••••. Your personal business is just that - again - WE DON'T GIVE A ••••. Does it have a tar/metal roof or a blue tarp? The tarp is making some inroads as it can be pulled off to sleep under the stars in good weather - maybe an improvement you should look into. Newspapers for window treatments and floor coverings? Most of us do have mortgages - watch who you insult, some of us do not like it. Since you own your own trailer and are so well off I assume you'll be dumping your F50 for the Enzo? Will you scrape off your Scuderia stickers from the 308 and put them on the Enzo or do you have another $9.95 set waiting? You fit the worst of the negative Ferrari owner stereotypes, add no value, brag and are just plain rude. My apologies to other FChat members for wasting your time in reading this post and for getting a little pissed. Will Don't you love the wind in your hair in your Ferrari David? Oh, you have none, sorry. | ||
| Jordan Witherspoon (Jordan747_400)
New member Username: Jordan747_400 Post Number: 11 Registered: 12-2002 |
I agree with David, the Enzo is one of the only *if not the only* Ferrari that I don't really like. Its not horribly ugly, but its just not my style. I did however, think the F50 was gorgeous. I'm partial to the older styles though...maybe I'm not ready for a new super car  | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Junior Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 112 Registered: 6-2002 |
Who cares about 10-minuite top speed? I want to hit 170 *RIGHT NOW* Best! Ben. | ||
| Neil A. Campbell (Bimmerlover)
New member Username: Bimmerlover Post Number: 24 Registered: 10-2002 |
yeah from the videos i saw that car looked awfully wide to have a higher top speed than the F1. i think both could have been accomplished but either way i think it is irrelevant to ferrari who is more concerned about selling them all. I recall clicking on one of the sponsors for Fchat and them offering one for about a million. do u think a lot of the buyers will be trying to flip these cars. and i also think its ridiculous that these are so hard for the enthusiasts to attain, more ingenious marketing for dealers to gouge your pockets i guess.Is anyone on the board getting one? | ||
| David Jones (Dave)
Member Username: Dave Post Number: 497 Registered: 4-2001 |
"It is about the fastest car. Always has been, always will be"..... Not! Top Fuel Dragsters can go 300mph, but would make an awefull street car. "Ferrari has a wind tunnel, big deal. Do you think it runs for free and is paid for?" It paid for itself some years ago, ever been there to find out? "If none of that matters why build a 675 bhp car at all? Or 500 or 400 for that matter? " Well you don't need to... depending on the weight of your car... ever hear of a power to weight ratio? "I know I have a house that doesn't run for free and isn't paid for." That's too bad.... Mine Is paid for, but then I'm not spending my money to buy the fastest street car made, only to have to spend even more when something faster comes out. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
Advanced Member Username: Bretm Post Number: 3126 Registered: 2-2001 |
Having the highest top speed is usually useless in a track car. Ferrari rarely, if ever, posts highest trap speeds in F1 races, yet they win almost everyone of them. You're gonna sacrifice x amount of acceleration, something that will be felt every time one hits the gas pedal, for the .00001% of the time that one of these cars will be driven to top speed. You have to figure out of the 399 only one, maybe two, will be tested to absolute top speed, especially if it was over 240mph. After this bried moment at that speed the car will never go that fast again, and the other 398 will never make it period. To me it doesn't make sense to gear a car for this, it makes a lot more sense to gear it like they have. Besides which, it still does like 217mph or something ridiculous like that. | ||
| Jamil Jamal (Jameel)
New member Username: Jameel Post Number: 8 Registered: 9-2002 |
Hugh you make a very good point, the Enzo is 80" wide, while the McLaren F1 is only 72". That's a lot of drag. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 398 Registered: 1-2002 |
Will- Sounds like BS. The enzo, in comparison to the F1, has too much frontal area, aerodynamically speaking, to breach those speeds. The aerodynamicist knows this, the designer, and everyone involved, they did have the F1 as a stencil and still fell short. Seems like concessions were made, for what reason? More than likely for 'stylistic' concerns, and such. The F1 next to any other super car looks tiny, very slender, and almost 'egg' shaped (remember Tron). Anyway, the enzo, any way you cut it isn't the greatest 'street car' ever, but it is the newest. And while, to me, it is the most beautiful of Ferraris supercars, on paper and in practice it still hasn't taken the crown from the F1. Tim- Regarding enzo 'active aerodynamics': -------------------------------------------------- The Enzo has no rear wing because the entire car itself acts as a giant wing. Active aerodynamics similar to the McLaren F1 provides a massive 775kg of downforce at 300km/h, that is more that 50% of the vehicle's kerb weight. At 200km/h the aerodynamic downforce is still a hefty 224kg. If you're cruising along at 350km/h (sustained), the active aerodynamic system reduces the downforce to 585kg to limit drag. The technology continuously assess the optimal balance between drag and downforce by adjusting the front flaps and the rear spoiler. -------------------------------------------------- | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1757 Registered: 6-2001 |
Andreas, the aerodynamics on the car are controlled electronically and can be set for high downforce or low drag, i think it even is done automatically. Its a shame ferrari doesnt return to lemans with it, from what i understand moveable aerodynamics are against the rules. | ||
| Andreas Forrer (Tifosi12)
Junior Member Username: Tifosi12 Post Number: 165 Registered: 10-2002 |
That comment in Forza by the designer was very unusual to say the least. I simply don't understand why the wouldn't go for top speed if they could have. I can't imagine it would take away from the car's balance on the track. They could have probably come up with an electronic setting for flat out speed vs one for mixed conditions as on a road track. It really sounded like sour grapes. I adore the Mc Laren for all it is, including its top speed and the F1 like central driving position (finally a 'manufacturer' who has the gutts to do that). But unfortunately I'm not a Mc Laren fan, but a Ferrari aficionado. So I'm left shaking my head in disbelief. I love the Enzo's design btw. It's weird, just like the Countach was. I think that's a big plus in today's standard egg shaped car world. If it only could be the fastest car... | ||
| WMontgomery (Fiorano1999)
Junior Member Username: Fiorano1999 Post Number: 72 Registered: 11-2002 |
It is not about speed limits. It is about the fastest car. Always has been, always will be. It is about king of the hill. No one sane ever drives at those speeds but owning that ability is another story. It is also about how fast you can get to terminal velocity. If none of that matters why build a 675 bhp car at all? Or 500 or 400 for that matter? A rising standard is what most of life is about. To see Ferrari back away from that across the board just doesn't seem right. To cave to political bullshit, environmentalist pressure, etc. doesn't seem right for a cutting edge company, does it now? Any car you buy today can reach speeds that are downright dangerous so what is your point? Limit all cars to the specs of the slowest car still alive and registered? Mercedes 190D probably? Ferrari has a wind tunnel, big deal. Do you think it runs for free and is paid for? The cost of using it has to be covered somewhere don't you think? I know I have a house that doesn't run for free and isn't paid for. Few businesses even want to own their bricks and mortar. I am hardly missing the word "street". The McLaren F1 was a street car was it not? In fact, it was detuned for LeMans. The street car was more powerfuil. To be able to make a street legal car that could run with a LeMans car is quite an accomplishment - hmmm, sounds like the early Ferrari days. Will | ||
| Omar (O. H. B.) (Auraraptor)
Junior Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 61 Registered: 9-2002 |
WMontgomery, I doubt they lost $ on each car, rather I beleive they shouldof ATLEAST broke even. If they did lose $, they need to fire all of their accountants because they could have charged as much (just about) as they wanted and people would have payed...remember they had a list with 3 people per one car...so if they added another 100K and lost one (or even 2) of the buyers, so what? | ||
| David Jones (Dave)
Member Username: Dave Post Number: 495 Registered: 4-2001 |
Ferrari has their own wind tunnel... been there done that. "But once and for all, why not set the top speed record for a street car?" #1 because it would then be broken by car X, and you are once again in a pissing match. I think you are glancing over the key word here... "Street". I don't know what the speed limits are in your town, but where I live they are nowhere near 250mph... My tired sucky old 2 valve 308 will reach speeds that are flat out dangerous on public roads, so at sometime you have to stop and ask yourself, what's the point? Where would you ever be able to use the top speed the Enzo has to offer, if it were 250mph, it would only be on a closed course. Have any idea how many race tracks can support speeds of 250mph?.... Not many. | ||
| WMontgomery (Fiorano1999)
Junior Member Username: Fiorano1999 Post Number: 70 Registered: 11-2002 |
They are already sold - no secret there. How much profit do you really think a few hundred cars adds to the bottom line. Do you think they have no associated cost? They could be losing money on them for all we know. Depends how the design was paid for, etc - out of cash or financed. 5000 hours in a wind tunnel ain't cheap. Wouldn't be the first time a company intentionally lost on a design. Porsche's Cayenne design was paid for out of cash flow so every one sold dumps fully to the bottom line and doesn't pay back principal and interest on the design. On the other hand it was estimated that each 959 cost a million to get out the door sold for 250k. Depends on many factors. But once and for all, why not set the top speed record for a street car? Especially when the car was designed to do so, why govern it. By the way, if top speed doesn't matter any longer, and I believe in the real world it doesn't, why do all of the car mags test for it and we all talk about it and make it the cover stories about once a year? Ferrari increased the top speed on the 360 from 99 to 2000 by taking off electronic limits so it must matter. Actually I understand that a 99 will cut off at the electronic limit - you drift to the side from 180 mph - wait a minute or so - then it will start again - honest. Also something about 360's being blown off by Porsche turbos on the Autobahn and making for unhappy clients. Will | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 430 Registered: 3-2002 |
They'll make another... :p | ||
| Andrew Menasce (Amenasce)
Member Username: Amenasce Post Number: 412 Registered: 10-2001 |
Ferrari preferred track time to final top speed . And thank god they did . Who needs a 250 Mph car today ? Car nuts are seen as criminal all over the world . We can now only enjoy our cars on a track . | ||
| David Jones (Dave)
Member Username: Dave Post Number: 489 Registered: 4-2001 |
It doesn't matter whether it's top speed is 250mph or 195mph... All the Enzo's produced will be bought by consumers and that's what's important to Ferrari... It's no longer a pissing match with other car manufactures... it's about bottom line..$$$$ BTW, it's just my opinion, but I think the Enzo is one butt ugly car. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
Intermediate Member Username: Timn88 Post Number: 1736 Registered: 6-2001 |
The F50 was supposed to be the last Ferrari supercar too. they probably just say that so it seems more special at the time. I wouldnt be suprised to see another one. | ||
| WMontgomery (Fiorano1999)
Junior Member Username: Fiorano1999 Post Number: 65 Registered: 11-2002 |
According to the latest Forza in an interview with the Enzo designer, it could be the last true supercar. That said, Ferrari made the decision not to let it run to 250 mph which the designer said it was capable of. Something about not needing to compete in horsepower/top speed wars! Oh, come on. He also claims that it has no design elements in it. Everything is functional. By the looks of the Enzo in the article's pics, a Countach with all the scoops, wings and holes looks like a coordinated design effort. Will What do you think? |