| Author | Message | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1663 Registered: 2-2001 |
despite looks Fiorano is a tight twisty track better suited to smaller cars. You tahe a 355 and a 512TR to the Indy Speedway or LeMans and I guarantee the 512TR will pull a horizon job on the 355  | ||
| dan (Dan_curtis)
New member Username: Dan_curtis Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2002 |
I think that is soooo much rubbish about a 12 or an 8. The newer 8s are much more inspiring and "Ferrari" than the 12s. All this talk of "emotion", "feelings", "soul".... etc. Its all relative, and sooo subjective. Everyone will feel different about a car, its why you bought it because you like. But be honest with yourself, please! A TR interior looks soooo dated. A 355 interior is not the most extravagant or beautiful work of art either; the new 12s currently in production are very good. But the 355 is much, much better than the TR. Where's the emotion there? Would you prefer to be in a dated, ugly (IMO) interior, with an ugly looking shifter etc..., OR the 355 interior which is much more modern (although not modern enough IMO), and classy interior? I know which I prefer. The overall looks of the TR is dated. Its still a nice design, but far too Miami Vice. The rear lights are ugly. Finally on the question of sound? How can you possibly honestly believe a TR sounds better than a 355? The TR sounds wonderful with the correct muffler, but standard it holds no candle near a 355. 355 with a tubi sounds unbelievable. Sorry if I offend anyone. I just find it hard to walk away when someone tries to talk down someone else's magnificient piece of machinery. Each to their own, eh? Keep it pleasant and unbias. I have a 348, and KNOW that a 355 is a better car. I think TR owners should know the same. | ||
| Andrew (Enzo250gto)
Junior Member Username: Enzo250gto Post Number: 51 Registered: 2-2002 |
Are you sure the F40 would smoke the F50? I think it would be a pretty dead even race. | ||
| David J. Smith (Darkhorse512)
Junior Member Username: Darkhorse512 Post Number: 85 Registered: 10-2002 |
355 v. Testarossa (Seris 1). Its a toss up. Shock value styling against enhanced performance. $75K will get you a pristine TR or ratty 355b. Because most of my driving time is spent on the Blvd. and not a backstraight I would get a TR. | ||
| A.Tonokaboni (Senna1994)
Junior Member Username: Senna1994 Post Number: 80 Registered: 9-2002 |
Frank, that is your opinion about the 8 vs. 12 cylinder cars, tell that to the F50 that gets smoked by an F40. I love the 8 & 12 cylinder cars but each has there own personality. A 360 will still beat a 550 or 575 on a track period. | ||
| Michael N. (Man90tr)
Member Username: Man90tr Post Number: 745 Registered: 4-2001 |
Ben, you summed it up best for me. The 355 is a go kart for the track and will give the best track times. Personally, I wanted to buy a masterpiece and the track times were second. The 355 - great track car, but will never be viewed as a masterpiece. And the 512TR is masterpiece times two. Why buy Warhol when you can have Picasso? Michael | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 322 Registered: 8-2001 |
Searched through the archives as I remember this being discussed before by a German owner who owned both. Take a look at the following thread http://server.ferrarichat.com/~ferrari/ferrarichat.com/discus/messages/21/4122.html . I think there are some inaccuracies in the post but it does shed some more light on the subject. A lot of opinions here but facts are facts. Alesi lapped the 355 nearly 3 1/2 seconds per lap faster at Fiorano and lapped the 355 over 4 seconds faster at Mugello than the 512TR. The 355 hits 0-150 in 29 seconds and the 512TR hits 0-150 in 27.8. I would hardly call that "walking away". The 355 has a power to weight ratio of 8.4 (3150/375) while the 512TR has a power to weight ratio 9.2 (3875/421). My 355, like Matt's is not a street car, but put a equal driver in a 512Tr and me in a street 355 and there is no way he is getting by me, unless it's a drag strip. By the way, for those of you who are thinking high speed tracks, take a look at the map of Fiorano. Long straights and the 512 TR still can't hang with the 355. Don't get me wrong I love the 512TR and was a former TR owner (89 model). Both a great cars but quite different. I bought the TR for it's looks and raw speed. I bought the 355 for it's handling and sports car feel. We are also comparing apples and oranges when we are comparing "stock" vs. "modified" cars. I don't know what William is putting in his race car but if it's some twin turbo monster than comparing it to a Challenge car which has a stock street motor in it is pointless. There will always be something that is modified that is faster. If William's car is some mega HP monster than it would be better to compare it to Jeff Ipoletti's F355GT car which I am told makes somewhere near 520 hp +. The TR is a great GT car and the 355 is a great Sports car. Regards, Jon P. Kofod 1995 F355 Challenge #23 Former 1989 Black/Tan TR owner  | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Junior Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 111 Registered: 6-2002 |
It's close, but the 512TR will usually loose. (it is MUCH harder to drive fast also, mastering a TR at the limit is a true black art. ) They're very different cars, different styles. The 355 is a go-kart, the 512 is an absolutely wonderful beast of a GT. Both are absolutely wonderful cars, two of the best ever to grace any road. Best! -Ben. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1606 Registered: 9-2001 |
Again, it doesn't really matter which one is fastest. If you want the fastest track car, get a Porsche TT. It is cheaper, more reliable and much faster than any Ferrari out there save the Enzo. And, can be modified to be faster than that. Owning a Ferrari is about more than lap times you know. Ferraris are about beauty,sound, tradition as well as performance. That being the case, a 12 cylinder car beats every time. | ||
| Robert Ziino (F355bob)
New member Username: F355bob Post Number: 32 Registered: 8-2002 |
When the 355 came out, Ferrari said it beat the 512TR by 3sec on their test track. Weight alone would be an issue for a 512 in handling and braking over a 355. The 355 revs must be up above 6500rpm vs. the 512 abudance of low rpm torque.The TR may feel faster because of the toque difference. I have owned both. | ||
| Frank Parker (Parkerfe)
Intermediate Member Username: Parkerfe Post Number: 1604 Registered: 9-2001 |
Regardless of which car wins, the TR is still a Ferrari 12 cylinder with the 355 being a Dino 8 cylinder. It was like that when the cars were new and it will be like that 100 years from now. | ||
| Mark Moon M.D. (Enzomoon)
New member Username: Enzomoon Post Number: 26 Registered: 4-2002 |
William: I beg to differ; a 512TR will not leave a 355 like a ton of bricks, unless my street car is unusually strong. Again, I think much of the difference is in the seat-of-the-pants as the 512TR has more torque. It sounds as if you are an avid track guy. You may want to think about upgrading to the 512M...I am sure you would be pleased. | ||
| TomD (Tifosi)
Intermediate Member Username: Tifosi Post Number: 2026 Registered: 9-2001 |
William's tr is an angry woman | ||
| Matt Karson (Squidracing)
Member Username: Squidracing Post Number: 289 Registered: 3-2001 |
William...an angry woman is the only thing that scares me!! LOL I would love for you and the beast to join us in some serious dicing! It's easy to find me, I'm the one in front.... | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1659 Registered: 2-2001 |
Matt, you have a 355 challenge not a road car. and you said you have never been beaten by a TR. True. but I would add, Not Yet The beast is coming (512TR race car) , be afraid, be very afraid LOL | ||
| Dr. George Petito (Doc18015)
Junior Member Username: Doc18015 Post Number: 74 Registered: 12-2001 |
Michael N.----RIGHT ON!!!!! William H.----I saw you run at Pocono this past summer; my money is on you. I hillclimbed against Roger P in the 60's. Both of us had Vettes, but his was state of the art, while mine was on a college kids part-time job change. Go with the Penske shocks and clean-up! | ||
| William H (Countachxx)
Intermediate Member Username: Countachxx Post Number: 1657 Registered: 2-2001 |
I havent driven a 355 but I have yet to see a 355 road car that can keep up with my 512TR on the track. There are maybe 4 guys in 355 Challenge cars that beat me regularly, If I was racing against a whole 355 Challenge field I would probably place my 512TR in the top 25% of the field & its a road car with ac & radio In a straight line the 512TR will leave a 355 like a ton of bricks, the TR likes fast sweeping corners but its not altogheter bad in the tight stuff. I surprised myself at Lime Rock where I turned a 1:01 which is seriously moving at that twisty tight track and even more so in such a large wide car. I've pushed the 512TR suspension as far as she will go at LRP so next thing on the list are some Penske shocks to help the suspension out | ||
| Mark Moon M.D. (Enzomoon)
New member Username: Enzomoon Post Number: 25 Registered: 4-2002 |
I have tracked both my 355 coupe and my former 512TR but have not yet tracked my F512M. I agree that the 512TR FEELS faster due to the torque but in a straight fight with my friends 512TR at Roebling Road the 355 is basically equal in terms top speed and acceleration down the straight. They both reach top speeds just over 150 before turn one. In the twisty bits the 355 is clearly superior. Versus a series 1 tr the 355 is definitely faster in a straight line fight...no question. It simply is deceiving in the way it builds speed and therefore doesn't feel as fast. I agree that the sound and sensation in the cockpit of the tr is unique. The 512TR and M are on another level entirely. However, the 355 will remain one of the all-time great sportscars. | ||
| Mark Moon M.D. (Enzomoon)
New member Username: Enzomoon Post Number: 24 Registered: 4-2002 |
I have tracked both my 355 coupe and my former 512TR but have not yet tracked my F512M. I agree that the 512TR FEELS faster due to the torque but in a straight fight with my friends 512TR at Roebling Road the 355 is basically equal in terms top speed and acceleration down the straight. They both reach top speeds just over 150 before turn one. In the twisty bits the 355 is clearly superior. Versus a series 1 tr the 355 is definitely faster in a straight line fight...no question. It simply is deceiving in the way it builds speed and therefore doesn't feel as fast. I agree that the sound and sensation in the cockpit of the tr is unique. The 512TR and M are on another level entirely. However, the 355 will remain one of the all-time great sportscars. | ||
| Michael N. (Man90tr)
Member Username: Man90tr Post Number: 742 Registered: 4-2001 |
Matt nailed it on the head. On a road course with straights and no 70, 80, or 90 degree turns, I believe the TR could take a 355, but with Matt I think the driver has a lot to do with it. I have driven in both and the TR above 120 is tough to beat reference acceleration. The TR is an awesome GT car, is more way more comfortable on a drive and just feels faster. It is interesting that everyone is talking track performance -- for someone actually driving the car around -- sorry the 355 just doesn't have the "Whoa" factor for me. Sexy as hell, especialy in the spyder version, but still the breathe and overall design of the TR are something to behold. That's why it is still considered one of the greatest cars ever. The 355 will never have that status. | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 467 Registered: 2-2001 |
Yes, Mark. It is all in good fun. That's why I love this site. Although, somtimes some people get out of hand. Anyway, I envy your track experience. I haven't taken my car yet to the track, and I am dying to try. I need to get rolling on that. Right know I don't even know where to get started, besides joining one of the clubs and going on their track days. I need to start stretching the legs of my TR to see if I can get around to beating you someday, LOL! | ||
| Henryk (Henryk)
Member Username: Henryk Post Number: 361 Registered: 8-2001 |
Why all the concern about what car will "eat" what car? I bought my 88TR because I thought the styling was just "awesome"......IMO more wild, and to my liking, than the 355. BOTH cars are more than adequate.....I must admit, though, that I do not track my cars. Just my opinion......BUY the car that you LIKE!!!!! | ||
| Matt Karson (Squidracing)
Member Username: Squidracing Post Number: 288 Registered: 3-2001 |
Omar, the 512M does not eat up the 355. Actually, 0-60 and 1/4 mile and 0-1000 meters are almost identical. (www.ferrari.com) | ||
| Matt Karson (Squidracing)
Member Username: Squidracing Post Number: 287 Registered: 3-2001 |
Hey Arnaldo....yes, it is all in good fun my friend!! Not that I am Schumi, but I have NEVER been beaten on any track by a TR. Never even close. A TR would have a slight advantage if it the comparison was made on a large super speedway with no infield. Then the deal is mostly HP. Pocono is the closest I come to a super speedway. But even then I beat the TR as I take the high speed turns faster, and game over in the infield. But all due respect to the TR, it is a fantastic machine! | ||
| Omar (O. H. B.) (Auraraptor)
Junior Member Username: Auraraptor Post Number: 59 Registered: 9-2002 |
I think it depends on which TR too....the 512TR posts close 0-60 and 1/4s, with the 512M eating up 355 numbers. | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 466 Registered: 2-2001 |
With regards to the track, it is my impression that it all depends on what type of track you are talking about. With more turns and short straights, the better the 355 will do. If the track differs from that, it is my impression the TR has the advantage. Now, if talking overall experience, it is my personal impression that the TR is more fun and sounds much better, too. The 355 can only dream of sounding like a TR, let alone the feeling of acceleration the twelve provides (although in numbers the story might be different). Numbers are a sad way of communicating emotions, let the drive tell the tale. Go and drive both! | ||
| Arnaldo Torres (Caribe)
Member Username: Caribe Post Number: 465 Registered: 2-2001 |
Yes Matt, you do deserve some slamming, LOL! But your opinion is your own and I can respect that. | ||
| Matt Karson (Squidracing)
Member Username: Squidracing Post Number: 286 Registered: 3-2001 |
I know that I'm going to get slammed for this....so don't take it too seriously! A stock 355 is a good track car & a stock TR is a good grocery getter. A prepared 355 is a great track car & a prepared TR is a good grocery getter. Just my jaded opinion. | ||
| David Jones (Dave)
Member Username: Dave Post Number: 494 Registered: 4-2001 |
The TR is a better GT car... The 355 is a better sports car. | ||
| Mitchell L. Davidson (Jussumfastgi)
Member Username: Jussumfastgi Post Number: 358 Registered: 4-2002 |
I think the Tr is a little slower to 100mph than the 355 and quite a bit slower around a track? | ||
| Greg Owens (Owens84qv)
Member Username: Owens84qv Post Number: 580 Registered: 10-2001 |
Jeff, working at Virginia International Raceway last year (road course), I was told by almost every driver of a TR that it was not nearly as agile as a 308, 328, 355, 360, etc... Later, I got the opportunity to find out first hand and they were correct. | ||
| Racer 001 (Mr_0011)
Member Username: Mr_0011 Post Number: 432 Registered: 3-2002 |
I would assume the F355 is faster all around, or at least it gets better times on the track... | ||
| Jeff (Jeff_m)
New member Username: Jeff_m Post Number: 33 Registered: 9-2002 |
In terms of performance, how do they compare with one another? Speed, handling etc.. Just curious |