| Author | Message | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
|
BTW, this topic fueled us to a new one day hit count record of 1070 for last Wednesday. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
|
I thought we got over this topic. Summary... 1) The Acura NSX is an awesome car. 2) It's technology was ahead of Ferrari, especially the 348 and that caused Ferrari to step up, which has benefited everyone. 3) It's Rob's opinion that in a stock 355 he could beat an equal driver in a stock NSX. | ||
| David Gomaidy (Gomaidy)
|
Some important facts: Titanium connecting rods , Ferraris started using it in F355 in 1995 , 5 yrs after NSX was introduced. Aluminum chassis, used in Modenas 9 years after NSX was introduced. About F1, Honda won 5 straight consecutive manufacturers champion with Alain Prost and the late Ayrton Senna before they stop supplying engines. This was when the NSX was developed. Ayrton Senna was a consultant for the road tests and he owned two NSXs. Honda just started supplying motors back to F1 last year. So give it time before it regains its manufacturer championship. I still love Ferarris ok guys...my brother owns a F355. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
|
...okay, that funny looking thing....yeah, seen them around. They look like Z-3s in the rear and a indian spear dart in the front. | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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What is an S2000 ???? | ||
| Jeff Fiedler (Muck)
|
Frentzen is so disgusted with honda he just walked , he's not racing this weekend | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
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I wonder if anyone remembers a red 5 and what kind of engine it had? | ||
| Becker Cu�llar (Becker)
|
I'd assume u wonder about the constructors positions, currently BAR is 6th (Honda engine) Ferrari/McLaren/Williams are the top 3 and Hockenheim is this weekend | ||
| Jeff Fiedler (Muck)
|
Anybody hear how Honda's doing in Formula one this year? Compaired to Ferrari,McLaren,BMW, Not to change the subject. Technology trickles down to road cars. | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
|
Guys, Don't take this the wrong way but they are still Toyotas or Hondas, not a Ferrari. As Timn said The Ferrari is unique because of it's heritage. This is what it is all about. Like it or not it is a FERRARI, and that name says it all. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
|
Tenny.... That was a very fair, honest and unbiased opinion of all the cars mentioned on this thread. I agree, is unfortunate that there are not very many supras in road race events. There is a fellow by the name of Reg Reimer who lives in Calgary who races his twinner supra in the One Lap of America, he has faired quite well the past few years against the vipers, porsches and vettes. I believe he has finished in the top 6 for the past five years. To Chris in Chicago. Yes!!! I have had the pleasure of being in a comptech supercharged NSX. It makes a regular NSX feel like a honda civic. The power comes on hard, and it brings the torque up to respectable level. P.S Acura is going with a 4 liter V8 for the next generation NSX which should be here next year. They are talking some big HP numbers and the motor will rev to 9 grand. It should be interesting. James | ||
| Chris_N_Chicago (Chris_N_Chicago)
|
Well sorry , gentlemen, but I really love my Ferrari and would do anything to sell my NSX. The v6 sounds like a blender under 4000rpms, and thank god it wasn't in the SNAP RING recall that Acura screwed all the NSX owners on ... Ferrari doesn't have the quality that Japanese automakers have - that is a plus on the NSX , but the driving experience is sterile, and uneventful. Maybe someday they'll stuff an 8 in that thing... Anyone drive a Comptech NSX? I would like to hear about that ... Sincerely, Chris @ NSXChat.com | ||
| Tenney (Tenney)
|
Of the cars discussed: The S2000 is a really fun car, a good track car and a car I'd rather have than a 308 if it was my only car or designated corner carver. Supras can be made quick fairly easily. Don't underestimate one at a stoplight ... er ... drag strip no matter what you're driving. Don't see 'em at the track events (road course) too often, though. Don't know much about Lotus other than that I'd really like to own an Elise. The mid-gen NSX performs as well as a 355 and the 1st gen NSX was the impetus for Ferrari to build the 355. The current NSX is nearly as quick as a 360. Driver matters huge in any scenario. I think the 550 is the best daily driver Ferrari has built to date (true, the 550 hasn't been mentioned yet but the daily driver notion has been referenced). Yes, the F40 and F50 are good. Never quite got with the F50's looks, though. Neither car spends too much time in too many mirrors at wood-layin' time. All these cars are fun to drive, but in more cases than not, the sounds and senses imparted by the Ferrari will provide the more memorable journey. This be my opinion. | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
|
Yeah, it's good that some things never change. I guess there's some innocent enjoyment with all our car admiration. | ||
| Frederick Thomas (Fred)
|
I don't know what everyone is worked up about. I think this has been a very interesting topic.Whats wrong with a little heated typing. One of my best friends and I used to get mad at each other and argue what was better Ferrari or lamborghini when we were teenagers. One of use would bring the new Road&Track and proudly point out the fact that our car was a tenth of a second faster 0-60. Then one would counter that our favorite was a tenth faster in the 1/4 mile . Then top speed, blah, blah, blah on and on. It was fun. We are both in our 30s' now and still joke about it. By the way the fact that I capitalized the F in Ferrari and not the l in lamborghini was not an accident... I guess some things never change. | ||
| nick l (Nsxnick)
|
this is kinda getting out of hand. i came to this forum because i love ferraris. and i want to be welcomed back. i think we're all just very proud owners. can we agree that in an objective and controlled environment, with one experienced driver, that the 355 and the nsx are comparable in performance? just say yes even if you dont agree so i can move on with my myopic little world. | ||
| Randy (Schatten)
|
Lawrence, sorry, but I dont have a fast enough car to see an F40 or an F50 in my mirrors =D | ||
| Lawrence Michaels (Lxmichaels1)
|
Ok, I Think the NSX is one of the finest automobiles from the land of the rising sun! I'll more than likely have one someday when the garage facility permits, then again I have a whole list of I want it's. As Honda Corp's flagship model and top-of-the-line sports car product can we also compare it to say Ferrari's top-of-the -line (say F40/F50)as well or do we want to compare it to Ferrari's entry level model (F348/F355) for compatible years or should we compare the F355 the the Integra RS, Acura's entry level. I'm just getting confused over this comparison, just what are we comparing apples-to-apples, apples-to-oranges, Price-to-price, technology-to-technology. To each his own! think about form/fit/function. Ever see an F40 or F50 in the rear-view mirror? Ever see a NSX in the mirror. What would you rather have? >> Larry | ||
| David Gomaidy (Gomaidy)
|
Hey I am an NSX owner and I lovvvvveee Ferraris... The word Ferrari reminds me the racing heritage and exclusivity in the cars. The F355 has the best sounding engine/exhaust...(high pitched F1 like, especially if you go to an underpass......wow!!) Honda just neeeds to build its reputation and respect in the auto world for its NSX....cuz when people think of Honda they think of civics etc.... Porsche, Ferraris, Lamborghinis have this respect for its long heritage in racing. The good thing about the NSX is that I can drive it across the country and not have to worry about it breaking and be stranded on the side of the road. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
|
To... nick l (Nsxnick), David Bernert (Nsxturbo), Tim N (Timn88), David Gomaidy (Gomaidy), James Dixon (Omnadren250), and Randy (Schatten) Thanks guys for your participation on FerrariChat.com. I think everyone benefits to have your diverse experience and opinions on the board. Competition is the main driver of progress and I think Ferrari has been "woken up" several times in it's history... when others went to mid-engines, when the NSX came out with a reliable better performing less expensive exotic, and even now there are competitors that are driving the future cars. The good news is, that no matter which car we end up with, they have all benefited by competition. Ciao e Grazie! Rob Lay (Rob328gts) FerrariChat.com p.s. It's still MY opinion that the 355 rocks the NSX's world all around.  | ||
| nick l (Nsxnick)
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isn't that a suburu XT?? maybe suburu copied the 408, and then acura copied the XT. i apologize roy. | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
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They are right Nick, I think a apology is in order, don't you? | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
|
Thanks Steve, I knew our great users would come through. | ||
| Steve Magnusson (91tr)
|
Nick -- I think Rob's talking about the '87 Ferrari 408 Integrale  | ||
| nick l (Nsxnick)
|
are you referring to the mythos? what are you smoking? http://www.ferrariforever.com/mythos.htm | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
|
I've never said the NSX was a bad car, I would love to have one, especially at today's prices. Now the end all to end all, especially if my fellow Ferrari clan can back me up and provide pics is... Around 1986 or 1987 Ferrari came up with an all wheel drive prototype that looked exactly like an Acura NSX, opps, my bad, The NSX came out a few years latter, so the Acura NSX looks like the Ferrari all wheel drive prototype. | ||
| David Bernert (Nsxturbo)
|
The data on the NSX is not correct. Car and Driver TV just did a segment on a stock 2001 NSX and got 0-60 in 4.6 sec. and the quarter mile in 12.9. That is certainly comparable performance to a 360 and better than a 355. But that is not the real point. Remember what the standard for Ferrari was when the NSX came out in 1991? The 348 was the best production Ferrari, but is was still not up to other company's quality standards. It was probably the first Ferrari you could even pretend was a daily driver, but just barely. Pressure from the NSX lead to the vast improvement with introduction of the 355 and then the 360. The 360 is Ferrari's first attempt at a modern, all-aluminum design. Where have I seen that before? You Ferrari guys should feel proud of your cars - the 360 is wonderful. However, take a moment to give a nod of recognition tot the car that helped make it what it is. Pressure from the quality and ergonomic standard set by the NSX was a large factor in its design. Peace. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
|
NSXnick, maybe we've both learned some stuff from this discussion and it's getting a little old. It's hard to have 100% effective communication shooting text messages back and forth. However, for my responses... 1) I didn't leave anything out of the stats, those were taken directly from the Road and Track site. Also, I put the stats of the exact year cars in question. Don't make me go through every year of Ferrari 355 stats and pull out the best numbers. 2) Driving ability is variable, that's why the comparison head to head offers the best stats with same test driver. I've beat cars with twice the hp and setup of mine and I also get beat by cars with less hp and setup than me. Driving ability is one of the largest variables in racing. I believe I do remember that article you mention, I need to review it again, but I believe your stats are accurate for that test. 3) Oversteer is really only a major problem for average drivers. Why do you think European cars arrive in America with wider rear tires than the front? Why do you think the factory recommends variable tire pressure front to back? Why do cars not come with or lack a quality front sway bar? Because the average driver can't handle the oversteer! Yes, race car drivers like to dial in the steering where they are comfortable and don't have to over work the car through a 24 hour race. However, how often have you heard a race car driver say "dang, it's turning too well". No, 95% of the time a real driver will complain of the car pushing or understeering too much. 4) Just because I'm in a more humorous mood today and want to throw a cheap shot in... I was looking through the paper yesterday and used NSX's are selling for $26-29k in the Dallas paper. Ouch, Lotus Espirit all over again, glad I didn't buy one a few years ago. However, to end on a positive note so we can all have a group hug and sing "Kum by Yah", I think the Lotus Espirit Turbo at $18k and an older NSX at $28k are probably the best exotic performance buys this year. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
|
I just asked how the handling of the s2000 compared to a 308 even though i knew they werent the same kind of cars and this turns into a NSX vs. F355 debate. I know Ferraris arent the fastest sportscars but they have sometiung about them that cant be put into words. In repsonse to Gene, i hate dealerships like that. When i walk into a ferrari dealership, i dont expect to be allowed to sit in a car (Wide World of Cars offered to let us sit in them), but i expect to be allowed to sit in a 33k honda is i walked into the dealership! Never even set foot in there again. Randy, i do have a place to store it, i could boot my dads car out of the garage. It isnt very probable that i will own a ferrari any time soon. They are expensive and my dad is to rational to buy one, not that anyone who does is irrational (they just seem that way to people who dont understand). | ||
| nick l (Nsxnick)
|
Roy, facinating stats. however, i dont see any numbers that show evidence of any kicking of the ass. and how convenient of you to have left out the skidpad results for the 355. if you recall, our debate was over handling, not accelartion. and why was the nsx's top speed left out? could it be because its 186 (not zarnardi, not type-s, and not type-r, just regular 1991 model)? i didnt come here to start a petty argument. i merely said that the nsx was easy to drive, and yet it didnt take away from its handling capabilities. if you choose to be obtuse about it, then so be it. but dont post biased material to trick your less informed audience. the 355 is an amazing car. its the standard for many sports cars. dont cheapen that. should i stoop? heck why not? here's some info from an article in Road&Track(the best handling cars in america). slalom speeds... 355 - 64.3 mph nsx - 64.6 mph oooo... 0.3 mph faster! it kicked some major rearend. what did mario andretti have to say about the nsx(he was the one testing the cars)? "...It is very stable and possesses a flat feel. But the best thing about this car is that, if you want to let your hair down, it will let you. Ask for more and the car gives it to you. Actually, I'm not surprised that the NSX lap times were the second-fastest because it was the car I was the most comfortable in." (by the way, the 355 wasnt the fastest) what about the 355? "...it's fabulous until you start playing with the limit. The car doesn't like to be overdriven. Its biggest problem is oversteer. Although turn-in of the car was good, the rear end becomes squirrelly through the exit of most corners. The car is easy to spin because it doesn't have the power to pull out." | ||
| David Gomaidy (Gomaidy)
|
To all ferrari owners...plz check out some of these videos.....especially the "Best motoring video- F355 vs. NSX" http://www.nsxprime.com/Gallery/multimedia/multimedia.htm NSX is not that slow after all... =) | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
|
Randy, I also wish the 355 was more of a daily driver. In my opinion, it is one of the best looking, sounding and fun to drive cars on the road. Not to mention the attention it gets. I am not sure if ours was a lemon car, but it was in the shop 8 times in the first 6 weeks of owning it. First it was a small oil leak, then the headers had cracks in them, then the brakes failed and it took 2 months to get brake pads for it. The final straw was when my dad was driving down the highway and the car just shut off and we had to get it towed. I hope one day that ferrari can achieve the sort of reliability that honda has done with the NSX, or at least what porsche can provide (although they are having some major quality control issues at the moment) Where exactly is this Supra event held?? I am in Canada but may consider a road trip. Thanks James | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
|
Tim, just buy Bret's car and we'll put an end to this shananagance J (Bret, give him the "Ferrarichat" discount to help out). | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
|
I would repsond now, but my friend just got back from russia and he broguth back some russian water (vodka) so im in no shape to respond now. The only reson i compared the s2000 to a 308 is bc the s2000 is the highest performing car ive driven so far. Ferrari is still the my favorite kind of car. The heritage and history of them is unique. Few automakers have anything like it. I cant explain it. Bret, is the offer you made to show me ur car still open? I'll respond tommorrow. | ||
| Randy (Schatten)
|
James - no hard feelings at all - sorry for the comment about the contest. I had a blast with the Supra guys out there - hope to see you out there next year with yours - its a three or four day event - drag strip, track time, dyno, and uhmmm some street racing as well. I wish the 355 was a daily driver, that would be great, but from what I'm hearing on this board, the 360 is looking more like a reliable daily driver - at least more so than any other Ferrari. Rob - the s2000 on the charts? A few specs from magazines, they all differ, they are mostly typos - literally - and it depends on the driver more than anything in the car. I've seen 1/4miles as low as 13.5 (stock - at a track), and 0-60's as low as 5.3 (stock - g-tech pro). Its just a fun car for the buck. That's my take. | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
|
Yeah, James I have never owned one. But I do know what happened to my buddys' car. Total rewire plus. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
|
Thanks for the tip Warren. He has had the car since 1998 and has not had any major problems with it. Is this a problem that is specific to the 3.6 turbos?? as he has had 2 other 930's (which are basically the same as the 3.6) and never mentioned anything about it. I can understand what you are saying, those cars use alot of oil (11 litres) and are notorious for having little leaks in the oil return tubes which drip on the motor, exhuast,and give the interior the smell of burnt oil. I will check with the dealer to see if any service bullitens have been issued. Thanks again James | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
|
James,How long has he had the 911 turbo. I have 2 friends that have them. Always in the shop. Also tell him to be on guard because the seal on the Turbo WILL leak and when the oil runs down over the engine it ignites. Consequently instant toast. It happened on my buddys' car and is a common problem. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
|
Thanks for that review of two amazing cars, Rob. It would really come down to who the better driver is if both those cars were to meet up on a race track. For the record, my father owned a 355 back in 1996 and had it for a year and a half. Unfortunatly, it just was'nt the right car for him. He intended to use it as a daily driver (and I mean that literally, he put on over 100km per day) and he soon found that it was in the shop more often than he liked. He now has 1994 911 turbo 3.6 and is quite happy, although he has been talking about an NSX alot lately. I hope there are no hard feelings. James Dixon | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
|
WELL SAID ROB. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
|
Oh good, it's been awhile since I've been in a heated discussion. It's good to get some non Ferrari people on here to keep us Prancing Horse snobs inline. All of us were born in a Ferrari and to tell you the truth, I've never even sat in another car. I once tried to sit in something by some Japanese company, but I immediately broke out in a rash. Whew, that was a close one. ;) 1st of all: 1995 Ferrari 355 vs. 2000 Acura NSX-T 1995 Ferrari 355: --- 0-60 mph time: 4.7 seconds 1/4 mile time: 13 seconds flat top speed: 183.3 mph 3.5 liter V8 DOHC w/ 5 valves/cylinder 380 hp @ 8250rpm 268 lb/ft @ 6000rpm weight: 2976 pounds/1350 kg 2000 Acura NSX-T --- 0-60 mph time: 5 seconds flat 0-100 mph time: 11.7 seconds 1/4 time: 13.5 seconds skidpad: .89 g's 3.2 liter V6 w/ 4 valves/cylinder 290 hp @ 7100rpm 224 lb/ft @ 5500rpm weight: 3066 pounds/1391 kg Here's another "closer" comparison I found... Car___0-60___Qtr mile___Braking___Skidpad F355__4.6s__13.0s/109.7_111 ft____? NSX___4.7s__13.1s/109.1_116 ft____0.93* {2nd of all: 360 vs. S2000 comparison} This was a result of comparisons only between the S2000 and older Ferraris. I brought up the 360 as a point to compare same generation technology and not about all race pounders on the street. My Mazda can out brake my Ferrari, my BMW out accelerates to 40mph, and my Toyota has more HP and Torque. Opps, I forgot, they also all give me rashes. | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
|
OK James, After reading your last comment to Randy, apology accepted. | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
|
James, you don't have to apologize for coming on line and making those comments Because what you have said doesn't make any difference to the guys on this chat line. Over a period of time, had you been on this chat line, you would see that there are many comments about faster cars than the Ferrari. You see it's the difference of how you feel about owning a Ferrari or owning a Toyota. And oh yeah, we do think that Ferrari is the "be all,end all of sports cars." | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
|
Good point Randy, The supra is a little bit overweight. Mine does not have the removeable targa top so it is a bit lighter, but is still weighs in at a hefty 3400 pounds. Mine has been radically modified with all the HKS and Greddy goodies so it made 620 hp at the rear wheels, which surprisingly is not uncommon. I apologize to everyone on this board if my post was a little on the negative side. I have been perusing the posts here for many months and it is nice to see a group of people who have so much love and respect for the prancing horse. I guess I was just trying to say that people buy different sports cars for various reasons, be it brand loyalty, personal emotions or financial reasons. But each brand of car has its own special qualities, such as reliability, looks, sound and performance to name a few. I personally bought my supra because I felt it was the fastest car I could get for 50 grand (Cdn) and still be reliable enough to drive everyday. I guess I could have bought an older 308 for roughly the same price, but it would'nt have met my performance needs nor would I have been able to afford the prohibitive cost of servicing it. I do, however, plan on buying a ferrari when I am done school and the cost of 355's come down a bit. James | ||
| Randy (Schatten)
|
interesting comments James, I agree in one way, but I don't believe this thread was started as a 'best-performing car' nor a pissing contest - thus just comparison of technologies and what can be bought for the times. personally, I know about the Supra's performance, and there are others on this board that either own one of them or have come across them - I've raced around a small little track before in Hitchcock, TX at the Supra Event (national I believe) this past March - if you were there, all comparable cars - my car could reach the same speed as the Supras because I didnt' weigh 450lbs. more and didn't have to brake as early. Comparable cars...just comparable cars, but it all comes down to 1) personal taste, 2) price range, and of course 3) the needs of the enthusiast, whether it be show, go, track, a daily driver, or whatever floast your boat. All in all, its up to Tim. | ||
| James Dixon (Omnadren250)
|
Regarding the following comments.... ------------------------------------------------- S2000 and 360 are a fair comparison. It's a fact, the 360 kicks it's butt. Price is not the issue, comparing cars using the same generations technology is the match point. -------------------------------------------------- How on earth can you compare an S2000 and a 360 modena??? If price is not an issue, why not compare a new Ruf 996 or better yet, any Ruf twin turbo from the past 15 years and see what it will do you the 360. Believe it or not, there are other sports cars on the street that will give an ass whooping to the 360's and 355's out there. They may not look as nice, and definatly wont sound as good, but the ferrari is not the be all end all of sports cars. If you would like further proof of this, I would love to meet up you in my modified twin turbo supra and take you for a ride. I apologize for coming onto your ferrari forum and talking like this, but why do you all feel the need to slam other makes of cars?? If you guys were the car enthusiasts that you claim to be, then you should have respect for all makes of cars, period. Honda never intended the s2000 to be a ferrari killer, so why even bother comparing it? James | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
|
It would have been better Tim if you said "I just got out of an S2000" and then the only line of your post was "and I'll never get back in." Even if you didn't mean it, it would have made everyone be like WHY? I have to know. I know I have a year on you, so I'm gonna take it to make you as random as me. Pretty soon I'll have you starting posts like "I like rabbits and ducks" and "What do you guys think of the new quarters." | ||
| BretM (Bretm)
|
The 308 was amazing for its time. It's still cool now for goodness sake. It would rape almost everything back in the day. Don't get a Japanese sports car. They make some amazing cars, but when I buy a fun car I want it to have history, innovation, and soul. Things that most Japanese cars don't have. They're amazing at copying something and perfecting it, but unfortunately cars progress so rapidly that by the time they perfect whatever the original stole from the US or Europe, it is obsolete. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
|
I don't think an only car should ever be a Ferrari. Even if you just barely can afford a 308, then you can also just barely afford some type of reliable $1,000 transportation. A Ferrari is reliable if you maintain it, but it's not practical for most people to afford a 15k service every year and a 30k every 2 years. | ||
| Randy (Schatten)
|
that's quite an ideal comparison Rob, I agree with you there - comparing technologies of the times. but it all comes back to Tim's court, we can agree that the Honda has the reliability, better handling, better accelleration and Honda lines that will one day be outdated for a mass-production car (hand built or not, its a production car), the Ferrari takes care, time, and a bit more money than the Honda to maintain. Tim, as a student, being given your choice, and being provided the resources to wear, tear and care for the automobile, its up to you, but just make sure you drive both or take a ride in both - you've already got a ride in the S, now its time to ride in a Ferrari that wouldn't be too obscenely priced to purchase. | ||
| nick l (Nsxnick)
|
i agree with you, it is unfair to compare the 308 to the s2000 because of their respective eras. relatively speaking, the 308 was probably a better performing car for its time. but it doesnt change the fact that the initial question was "How would it compare to a 308?". as far as the 355 kicking the nsx's butt when it comes to handling.... i'd like to see your source. i'm not trying to be a smart ass. i'm genuinely interested in seeing some track stats that shows this. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
|
308, 328, and 348 are 70-80's technology. compare apples to apples. NSX and 355 are a fair comparison. It's a fact, the 355 kicks it's butt. S2000 and 360 are a fair comparison. It's a fact, the 360 kicks it's butt. Price is not the issue, comparing cars using the same generations technology is the match point. | ||
| nick l (Nsxnick)
|
hi all. i hope you dont mind an nsx-t owner imposing his thoughts in your forum but i had to say something. someone mentioned earlier that the s2000 was too easy to drive. how is that bad? isnt that a goal of any car be it exotic or a daily beater? the nsx is one of the easiest cars i've ever driven... and yet its handling is comparable to that of the 355 or the modena (some would argue that its superior). i completely agree about the intangible qualities of a ferrari that make it a "more" fun car to own. however, i really do not think the handling of a 308, 328, or even the 348 for that matter, can compare to that of an s2000. and that's not my opinion... its fact. now for my opinion, i think ferraris are the sharpest looking cars out there. however, until they can increase their reliability to honda levels, i cant imagine forking out the bucks needed to maintain one. | ||
| Mark C. Gordon (Markg)
|
Randy is right about the parking issue, my 308 gets some form of vandalization about 1 out of 3 unattended parkings. The last one someone tried to pry off the hood emblem, resulting in hood damage, a ruined $190.00 emblem and a broken screw driver tip embeded in hood. I have had trash thrown in it, and minor (due to quality of Ferrari paint) scratch marks. I have friends who own Corvettes, Porsches and BMW's who have never has a problem with vandals....go figure. | ||
| Randy (Schatten)
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I personally have an S2000, and its a lot of fun, doesn't suck that much gas, and I've used it for more than just a Sunday drive - a few track days, and some extremely wild country road excursions. In response to a few comments made: - the S2000 is easy to learn how to drive - well, only if you have fresh tires and you don't know what the car is capable of, or else, it can be a very tedious car to deal with as compared to a well balanced Miata. The Honda is certainly predictable up to a point, but after that point, you have to expect what it will do and make your actions, not reactive - which is quite different than a Miata where the handling of the car gives you feedback and tells you what it will do, and the limit to those cars is how much you can push them. Now, I'm sure you will say that this isn't comparing Miatas to S2000's, but rather Ferraris, but I am just stating a subjective opinion in my experience after driving *many* Miatas and *many* S2000's all modified in different ways. (no coffee can exhausts either!) - the interior on this Honda is half-ass, I agree! its quite cheap compared to the Acura TL's, CL's & NSX's. But then again, its rare that you can find a $33K car that pushes nine grand on the tach. - pricing: current prices have come down and they will continue to depreciate as the car ages, just as a typical import will, but most likely in the same depreciation percentage slightly lower than an NSX (not the value, but the % value), this is merely a subjective prediction due to the fact that both cars are built in the same factory, and both are 'said' to have limited productions, but the production lines have not stopped yet - this isn't a collectors car by any means, this is not a limited production year car no matter what anyone tells you and it will depreciate as _most_ cars do. Tim, if you can swing getting a 308 as a student, go for it - just make sure you have a place to store it (enclosed) and a place to work on it - it has class, it doesn't have the depreciation factor, it doesn't have the sound, it doesn't have the smell, it doesn't have the same handling at all, but if you want something to take to the track (not drag strip, but you could do that too, and even if you break an axle/tranny/fry a clutch, its still cheaper to fix than a Ferrari's anyday and *ahem* warranty sometimes fixes those) you can learn a lot with this car without the fears of driving near other cars in a Ferrari at high speeds. One other comment, if you want to go out with friends or to parties, you will be extremely anal about where you will be parking it - I'm not questioning where you live and where you sleep at night, but not everyone I knew going through school (high school/college) lived in the best of places - I wouldn't have trusted it. That's my take, but eventually, I'll turn my "H" badge in for a prancing horse - its just not time yet. If you have any questions about the car, feel free to email me and I'll help you out as much as I can - or drop by s2ki.com, one of the sites I work on. | ||
| Mark C. Gordon (Markg)
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Funny about dealers and how they change their attitudes!! I have a general rule when I take my 308GTS to the local Saturday night car show at a local parking lot - I will let anybody sit in it if they are clean and don't have a screw driver in their back pocket! Just plain goodwill, and you never know which one of these folks might be the one to buy your can when sell time comes!! | ||
| Gene B. Radcliffe - 308 GTS (Brcbank)
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TimN, you're lucky you even got to sit in one! I stopped at a Honda/Audi dealer last weekend. Granted, I did not drive up in the Ferrari, I had my 12 year old son along and had shorts and a T-shirt on, but here's what happened. They had a new S2000 and Audi TT in the showroom, both red, both about $45K. I asked if I could sit in the Honda and the salesmen said we ask that you don't. I said I suppose I could'nt even test drive either one unless I had already bought it. The salesman said that's pretty much the policy. I said I might have an interesting trade and they said what was it. I told them a Red 1979 Ferrari 308 GTS. Well, did their tune change. They just about fell all over me as I turned and walked out saying, "thanks but I'll take my business where there's less of an attitude". What a bunch of uppity snots. I will never feel the same about Honda or Audi again, I have lost all my respect. Can't sit in a $45k car? Come on. But it is nice to know that even they would rather have the used Ferrari than either the Honda or Audi! | ||
| paul s (Pes236)
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explain this to your father - 1999 360modena f-1 - 2 year old car new sticker price - $ 147500 2001 used price for this 2 year old car $ 189500 lets see what this S2000 is worth in 2 years somebody else said it and i couldnt agree more " its a honda " nothing wrong with a honda - but dont compare it to a ferrari | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
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Tim, I agree. My 2nd favorite car besides all Italian cars is BMW. However, I like the S2000 better than the Z3. Now give me a Z8 and I'll take that. BTW, there are a ton of Z8's and 360's driving around Dallas now. Bunch of new money buying the latest Road and Track cover. I bet those 360 owners haven't ever bought a Forza or Cavallino or watch F1 racing or know the history of Ferrari. But, a Ferrari owner is a Ferrari owner, well, that's what me and my 308/328/Modial friends tell the the skinny tire Ferrari people. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
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I'd much rather have a ferrari. If i didnt i'd be at some honda message board talking to people about how big their exaust tips are. Im not saying the honda is a better car, im just saying it was fun to drive. I doubt it ia as much fun as a ferrari, but not much is. I also think the styling on almost all ferraris is better. At least the honda is better than a z3 in my opinion. my freind's dad has one and it doesnt handle that great, the shifter has long throws and is sloppy, and it is slow. | ||
| Edward Salla (350hpmondial)
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Tim, Sooooo,,,,,, your dad can't justify spending $100k on a car. Can your dad justify spending 33K on a 328 Mondail Cabriolet? Performance is about the same. You can take another couple with you on your sunday drive. The looks are definitly better. You usually get the number one spot at valet parking. (I do) It might be your only chance to drive a Ferrari, then you will know.( You must already suspect that the Ferrari is the better buy, or you wouldn't have asked all of us Ferrari Nuts for advice.) Also, any maintenance or repairs he makes can be equated to the quick depreciation of the Honda. ( And I do mean quick, prices are fair now, but as soon as the market gets flooded with those little plastic units, the Honda will bomb.) | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
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Timn, If you drive a Ferrari in comparison to that car you will throw rocks at the S2000. Sorry, but don't even try to compare the two cars. The S2000 looks somewhat exotic, until you look at the rear end, but thats it. A Ferrari is a Ferrari and it is the ultimate. If you don't believe that, ask the man who owns one. BRGDS. | ||
| Warren E. Smith (Magoo)
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Couldn't have said it better myself Peter. | ||
| '75 308 GT4 (Peter)
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Tim, when the S2000 first came out and made its rounds at the usual car shows, I had the chance then of sitting in one.... and that'll be the one and only time I will. I was never so disappointed with a Honda product, the interior was so kit-car-like. To those out there who do own S2000's, I'm sorry those comments may have offended you. I'm sure if I did drive one, my opinion could change, but I can't justify the price for what you get (I expect better fit & finish). Thank you, I'll keep my GT4. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
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I understand (as much as possible without driving one) the passion of ferrari. I would rather have a 308 not only because of its styling, performance and sound but also because of the ferari heritage. Ferraris are alot more personal. There are also rare. I see S2000's almost every day, but i only see a 308 about once a month. Today i saw a testarossa (maybe it was one of you guys). The guy really gave it some gas and it sounded amazing. Nothing comes close to ferraris. Porshces, even though they are nice cars, I dont react near the same way i do when i see a ferrari. My goal is to own one in 10 years. Maybe one of you guys should let me drive your car so i couold compare it to an s2000 | ||
| Martin (Miami348ts)
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Its a Honda, need I say more? Get it for everyday use, rainy days and long hauls, but buy a Ferrari for the days you want Sex but can't get it! You will be gratified! | ||
| Herbert Edward Gault (Irfgt)
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It all depends on what you want from a car. If you want to be noticed, get the Ferrari. If you want performance and dependability and up to date engineering along with a warranty get the Honda. It is a great car, what a rush! | ||
| Chris_N_Chicago (Chris_N_Chicago)
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Mitch, Nice 308! | ||
| Mitchel DeFrancis (4re308)
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Tim, the S2000 is a neat car. I'm sure it is fast, but its too easy to drive. My neighbor has one. Anyone car drive a Honda. But only an elite group of people drive Ferraris. It is difficult to explain the passion of Ferrari, until you drive one. No matter what a post on a internet site says, you gotta hear it, smell it, look at it and just fall into the spell of a Ferrari. Then, and only then will you grasp what the magic is all about. I have a 308 QV and I simply love it. It makes me grin like an idiot all the time. The marque has an absolutley facinating history and a remarkable father. You have taken the first step by looking at websites and reading magazines. Now go drive one. I guarentee you will be hooked like a fish after a drive in a Ferrari. Please keep us posted....click on my name above to see the new member of my family. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
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The S2000 on paper, except for depreciation, would be the logical choice. We've tried on here to explain the non-logical reasons for a Ferrari, but I don't know if we've ever been successful. However, when you stand next to a Ferrari, step in, turn it on, rev it up, fly off, brake, turn, and drive through the gears... then you'll understand. | ||
| Doug Meredith (Doug308)
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S2000 would be better in all performance categories and have a full warranty for about the same price. However, only a select few will really notice the S2000, and everybody will comment on the Ferrari. Plus, something about unrefinement in an automobile can be very appealing. | ||
| Tim N (Timn88)
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Hi everyone. I know its sunday and you guys are probably having fun driving your ferraris, but i have a question for you. I just got out of an S2000. I have never driven a car like it before (which doesnt say much). It was a pleasure to drive. The steering was perfectly wieghted, the shifter felt very positive and had a short throw, the clutch was easy to use, and the ride was tought, but not too harsh. Have any of you ever driven one of these and if so, how does it compare to your ferraris. I know they are two totally different cars, but some things have to be the same. The car belonged to one of my dad's lawyer friends. Its a lost cause trying to talk my dad into a ferrari. Although he could afford one, he could never justify spending 100k on a car. But a 33k S2000 is another story. How would it compare to a 308? |