| Author | Message | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Junior Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 116 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hoosier R3S03 is good, it's a DOT-legal slick. Which means it has a smattering of tread, but it's just token. Pirelli makes TRUE slicks as well, these have absolutely NO tread, and don't pretend to be safe for even driving the car off the trailer and onto the track  <what> lol. PS: I've heard of someone driving theif F355b F1 with R3S03s on the street, I think he's NUTTY in the best way! http://www.tirerack.com/tires/hoosier/hoosier_tips.htm PS: T/R's heat cycle machine. I've never used it, but I've heard good things. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/competition/heatcycletech.htm Looks like its getting pretty good contact to me... Best! Ben. | ||
| Ben Cannon (Artherd)
Junior Member Username: Artherd Post Number: 115 Registered: 6-2002 |
Hoosier R3S03 is good, it's a DOT-legal slick. Which means it has a smattering of tread, but it's just token. Pirelli makes TRUE slicks as well, these have absolutely NO tread, and don't pretend to be safe for even driving the car off the trailer and onto the track <what> lol. PS: I've heard of someone driving theif F355b F1 with R3S03s on the street, I think he's NUTTY in the best way! Best! Ben. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 3031 Registered: 12-2000 |
We kinda miss name the DOT legal race tires "slicks". To be DOT legal they have to have tread. Some have more than others. Mainly they're just very very soft. Tread rating of 40 vs. performance tires 180 and normal tires 260+. True non DOT legal racing slicks are usually full slicks. Even F1 doesn't run full racing "slicks". Most organizations like a little harder tires because it makes for more exciting racing. This past year the Speed Touring and GT were on like 250 tread rating Toyos. | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 582 Registered: 7-2002 |
Thanks Randy. I understand the cycling part, but shaving confused me initially. I was thinking slicks were actually slick with no tread so why shave them unless they were out of round. | ||
| Randy (Schatten)
Member Username: Schatten Post Number: 518 Registered: 4-2001 |
This should help explain tire shaving: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/competition/shaving.html And this should help out with a general explaination of heat cycling: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/competition/heatcycletech.htm But keep in mind when the tires warm up, the are going through a heat cycle. | ||
| Jim Schad (Jim_schad)
Member Username: Jim_schad Post Number: 581 Registered: 7-2002 |
I know nothing about racing tires. Why do you shave them down? What does heat cycling do? | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 3022 Registered: 12-2000 |
The V700's and RA-1's have a different feel at different times, but overall I don't think they're slower. Our Spec. RX7 class ran the V700's for 3 years and those were the days of 30+ car fields. This year we went to the RA-1's because there was a brief shortage of V700's. With much lower field turnouts, same class rules, and many of the old record holders now in national classes we still broke many lap records on the Toyo's. I'm not saying they're faster, I'm just saying they're not slower with the broken records as proof. Toyo's are more greasy right off the truck, but really come into their own soon. They last longer if your camber is set just right, the RX7's running less negative camber have had problems with cording on the corners. My camber is dialed in perfect to get even wear. Now the Hoosiers are without a doubt faster, about 2 seconds a lap at TWS. | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 430 Registered: 4-2002 |
I don't shave my Victoracers either. Heat cycle them myself. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3483 Registered: 5-2001 |
Given the spacers I ordered: Vitoracers V700 225/45/17 front 4/32nd shaved 255/40/17 rear 4/32nd shaved Will heat cycle them myself  Will have them on the track for use on January 4th, first track day in Miami  | ||
| Brian Kennedy (Kennedy)
Junior Member Username: Kennedy Post Number: 151 Registered: 3-2002 |
> The V700's only last through so many heat cycles, > where the Toyo's, you can get away with driving them on the > street without any problems at all. This isn't something you > can do with the V700's - and keeping the tires sticky. Disagree with that point. I've driven many sets of V700's on the street. Yes, you do lose performance... but even with that lossage, they will still outperform the Toyo tires. The Victoracer V700's are simply awesome tires... and cheap. But it is true that the Toyo tires will last longer. The V700's can also be a bit annoying in the summer or whenever your driving gets them hot... they'll pick up everything off the road and fling it into your wheel wells, and potentially your paint depending upon your car's body style. The ECSTA V700 is not as good as the Victoracer, but still better than the Toyo. However, because of that, I am looking at trying out the new Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tire with my next set. Has anyone tried it yet? | ||
| billy bob (Fatbillybob)
Junior Member Username: Fatbillybob Post Number: 96 Registered: 8-2002 |
victoracers unshaved heatcycled 245 and 275's on a 348 | ||
| Kevin Marcus (Rumordude)
Junior Member Username: Rumordude Post Number: 112 Registered: 9-2001 |
I use the pirelli d3's on my f355c. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3496 Registered: 5-2001 |
Heat Cycling sounds like fun! I would do this for everybody at $15 each Sounds like a new business that is fun! | ||
| Randy (Schatten)
Member Username: Schatten Post Number: 521 Registered: 4-2001 |
Philip - it depends how many highway miles vs. track miles you'll get. I've gotta say with the RA-1's they rock for an every day tire that you'll get sub-5K miles out of with a track day or two. In the rain - let me put it to you this way, I have AVS Sports and AVS Intermediates. I really can't stand the Sports and the I's are "ok". The Toyo's, as _b_a_l_d_ as they are, handle better in the rain with zero tread than the Sports with half the tread. Their stickyness just helps, while the Sports are all over the place. In the first thousand miles the Sports are definately better, but after that - they are shotty. | ||
| Philip Airey (Pma1010)
Junior Member Username: Pma1010 Post Number: 74 Registered: 7-2002 |
what kind of wear do any of you get from something like RA-1s? | ||
| Randy (Schatten)
Member Username: Schatten Post Number: 518 Registered: 4-2001 |
A few other comments I'd like to add to the discussion: 1) Shaving - I'd recommend this if they are dedicated track tires. You'll definately be faster and they will last longer on the track. 2) Toyo's vs. V700's - The V700's will be slightly faster, but they do not last as long. The V700's only last through so many heat cycles, where the Toyo's, you can get away with driving them on the street without any problems at all. This isn't something you can do with the V700's - and keeping the tires sticky. 3) Heat Cycling - Do this yourself, don't pay tire rack or Vilven to do it. Its 15 bucks a tire, but the heat cycling machine is only so big. So anything over (I believe) 205 in size will only be partially heat cycled. The rest of it, will not be. So... just mount the tires on the car, take the car to an empty parking lot, and do figure 8's one way for about 20 minutes and the other way for about 20 minutes, go back home, remove wheels, let them sit for at least 24 hours - and there you go, they are heat cycled. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 3017 Registered: 12-2000 |
Ok Lawrence, I should of specifically said that. I thought the mm and the " were enough.  | ||
| Lawrence Coppari (Lawrence)
Member Username: Lawrence Post Number: 431 Registered: 4-2002 |
Careful, don't mix units. The 200/50*2 is in millimeters. You have to divide by 25.4 before adding to 17. I like Kuhmo Victoracer 700 tires for track use. Pretty good grip, good wear, not expensive. | ||
| neal (95spiderneal)
Junior Member Username: 95spiderneal Post Number: 61 Registered: 3-2002 |
i use kuhmos on track with my 348 spider and very happy stock rims with 225/40 ad 275/45 better than stock size in all ways | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 3013 Registered: 12-2000 |
a 200/50 tire would have a 100 mm profile. a 300/50 tire would have a 150 mm profile. The "50" is 50%. the overall height of the tire would be the profile multiplied by 2 plus tire size (like 17"). | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3487 Registered: 5-2001 |
Great link Rob. I never knew that when you change the width of the tire you are also increasing size. Check that out on the calculator. Change the first tripple digit higher and the diameter actually increases as well. Interesting. I know the double digit second number was the height of the tire. I guess you never stop learning. | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 410 Registered: 1-2002 |
Rob- My mistake, the hooiser R3S03 and A3S03 (an autocross tire, not track) are still DOT approved, and the lightest of all three. The ra1's are next lightest, and the v700 ecstas the heaviest. I have never used the v700 victoracer, only the ecsta v700. I forget the spec on an unshaved ra1'a, but the ecsta v700 is 6/32. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 3011 Registered: 12-2000 |
LOL Toto tires. I thought Hoosiers were DOT too. They have a very little couple groves, Toyo's have the most and the V700's a little less. Remember that the second number is not the profile in height, but the aspect ratio of the profile. That's why you need the calculator. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 3010 Registered: 12-2000 |
Hoosier has a 255/45 and a 205/40. You might enter all of these in a tire calculator to look at least impact to overall height. For the track you wouldn't normally mind to add 20mm to the width, but if you have spacers and already rubbing I would be careful. A puncture at speed sucks. http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html | ||
| TC (Houston) (Tec)
Junior Member Username: Tec Post Number: 68 Registered: 2-2002 |
Rob, I'm not familiar with Toto tires. Is that a Kansas tire company? | ||
| Hubert Otlik (Hugh)
Member Username: Hugh Post Number: 409 Registered: 1-2002 |
In my experience the toyo ra1's are more expensive than the v700 ecsta's; however, both are more very, very, very sticky street tires, than 'true' slicks; e.g. still grooved, and DOT approved. The hoosiers are neither, nor have I used them, so, my comments do not include these. Full tread v700 ecstas and ra1's can be used in the wet, and if you want them to last, longer, then I would reccomend against shaving them, just my opinion. However, regardless of which tire you get you should get them heatcycled before use, this improves the cohesion of the polymer used in the tire, and keeps them from getting slippery or greasy after two or three sessions. Using a lower profile tire in the rear, may induce some added oversteer, not sure if 5mm's are enough to make an obvious difference, but keep that in mind. -hubert | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3483 Registered: 5-2001 |
Kumho sounds like the winner. V700 however, they only have them for my 348 in these sizes Manufacturer is: 215/45ZR17 front 255/50ZR17 rear. I currently have on my car front as recommended and 255/45ZR17 rear. Can I oput these tire sizes on? 225/45 front and 255/40 rear I have wheel spacers that I can hear on the track in hard corners when the tire hits to inner wheel housing. Not much but just that bit. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 3006 Registered: 12-2000 |
For most typical track day usage on common Ferraris (sorry James), I recomend price and durability wise in order... 1) Toto RA-1's 2) Kuhmo V700's 3) Hoosiers All shaved to 3 to 5/32's. Now for just pure performance I would rank the above in opposite order. TireRack.com best for Kuhmo and Hoosiers, Vilven Tire for Toyo's 800-251-0017. | ||
| James Glickenhaus (Napolis)
Junior Member Username: Napolis Post Number: 246 Registered: 10-2002 |
www.rogerkrausracing.com He got me the right tires for my P4 and is very knowledgeable. Mention my name. Best | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3481 Registered: 5-2001 |
The first question is where. I got a price for Hosier at $200 a pop that make me sit flat on my ass. The other question is there are other brands, which ones do you guys use? |