| Author | Message | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Junior Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 111 Registered: 10-2002 |
On second thoughts, I am sorry, I should not have posted the last response. It is just that I am not American, and I have over-reacted. I took it too personally. I apologize. | ||
| KCCK (Kenneth)
Junior Member Username: Kenneth Post Number: 108 Registered: 10-2002 |
Well, I have been listed in Who's Who in the World since I was 38, but there again, so what? | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 842 Registered: 6-2001 |
Tim: Just noticed your reply. Great that you paid a huge amount of taxes. I paid a little also. However, I guess that because I was forced to participate in something that I really didn't want to do, I have a certain perspective about war and violence, and our country. This isn't a country for Christians. It's for all of us. My parents attempted to raise me as a Jew, but fortunately for me, they failed. Having said that, I think that this country is about freedom. That includes the right of someone not to have to listen to other people's version of their god in a governmental forum. I have an interesting story that relates directly on point: I was in the US Army, basic training in 1968, Monterey California. My drill instructor didn't know I was Jewish (at least born as such), and on a Saturday, when those who practiced the religion were off, he started a tirade about how they were letting all of us down. Most of the other basic trainees agreed with him. I didn't turn him in, but thought long and hard about doing that. The other trainees wanted to give a blanket party to one of the Jewish trainees, and I was the only one to say no. Almost came to blows over the issue, but they weren't able to have their way. When I see something like this, I am reminded about that incident. Sorry if I offended you. Art | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3459 Registered: 5-2001 |
Tim, I know what you mean. I live in a predomnantly jewish neighborhood. In the town of Bay Harbor we have on every 2nd street lamp pole (and I mean every 2nd) either a menorah or the star of david. On the others you have the christmas star flower, not the nativity scene. Last year the local synagogue donated a 9ft tall outdoor menorah to the town to be errected at the entrace to our town. This is where most of the other "holiday" decorations are, which are a flock of sailboats. We do not have a christmas tree, which truely is a pegan symbol, not even a christian symbol. When I went infront of the town council to speak my peace (which I do too often) the rabbi had the guts to tell me (remember this is last year Dec) that the menorah is a symbol of freedom, not of religion. Then he cited from the torah why it is a symbol of freedom. "...and since September 11 we have to embrace the symbols of freedom". To sum this up, and this is what Tim was trying to say all along (I hope): We are trying to please too much those that cry foul the loudest and forget our true values. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3458 Registered: 5-2001 |
Come and celebrate "Martinism" a giant statue of an erect middle finger in your front yard. Now that gets a tear into my eyes  | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1074 Registered: 8-2002 |
Bruce, The problem began with the founding of our country. They were christan/catholic/baptist hence the siding toward x-mas. Had the founding fathers been jewish, then it's a whole different story. literlly. | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Intermediate Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 1303 Registered: 4-2002 |
lol, william tim it wasnt a bash at you and your spelling sucks like mine, so lets get past that , i respect all faiths, holidays, and religions as long as they dont harm me or my family...i respect gay, mentally handicapped, and others along that line IT just pisses me off that with the jewish religion is just brushed aside with everything else in this world, i am not a religious jew, but do believe in my faith, and where my kids and stepchildren are excused for christmas day from school, but not excused an absense for yom kippur( jewish holiest day) that makes me go biserk,, sorry to vent tim, and again i respect you and dont call this a bash upon you.. happy holidsys and a healthy one to you and your family... also william hart, the same to you and yours respectfully , bruce | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 647 Registered: 12-2001 |
Indeed, some of my best friends are jewish, too, and they make great lawyers and accountants. But, i am constantly disappointed that my local stores never stock any Scientology wrapping paper, etc. Perhaps its trent lott's fault? | ||
| Tim G. (Tim)
Junior Member Username: Tim Post Number: 219 Registered: 3-2002 |
I know what you mean Bruce. sorry about the misspelling. I think its pathetic that everyone cant celebrate what it is they believe in period. I dont care what anyone believes in its there right to believe in it, celebrate it, etc. I just think its pathetic that so many people try to cover things up wheather it be Christmas, Chanukah or anything else. in fact after the music presentation last night I told my wife that its terrible that in the stores they dont have more things for Chanukah and call it that and same for Christmas. I just dont understand why everything has to be so covered up today. BTW - not that it makes any difference, I have many Jewish friends and have attended many Barmitzvas and my sons buddy accross the street is even teaching him Jewish. I think we could all learn more by understanding each others practices and beliefs. again, I just dont understand most peoples needs to hide everything. like not saying "Merry Christmas" or even more so "Happy Chanukah" Bruce I hope you and your family had a Happy Chanukah. | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Intermediate Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 1301 Registered: 4-2002 |
tim first of all chonaka is spelled hanukkah or chanukah, anyway, try going into the biggest and largest chain of stores in the u s a , "walmart" and not finding any chanukah wraping paper, a simple outdoor or indoor menorah, or even anything related to that.asking those who work thier and the answer i got is"it should be near the xmas stuff" .that pissed me off, wrote lee scott) ceo of walmart) 2x and they never had the balls to answer me,,•••• them... dont tell me about xmas songs, holiday closings, or shopping, because its all geared to xmas, not the jewish hanukkah...o, btw, im married to a italian catholic(christian) and most of my great friends are non-jewish..so no need to bash me.. regards, bruce | ||
| Tim G. (Tim)
Junior Member Username: Tim Post Number: 218 Registered: 3-2002 |
here is a good example: went to one of my kids middle school music class presentations last night. first they sang songs like, take me out to the ball park, etc. then a kid came to the mike and announced that its the "holiday season" see if you can guess this song, they then sang Jingle Bells. then another kid came to the mike and said chonaka just ended and its a time celibrated by Jewish people. they then sung a Jewish song. then another kid comes to the mike and talks about Kwanza and then they sang a Kwanza song. guess I missed the part about it being "Christmas" and I also missed the "Christmas" song. wait, that must have been when they said "Holiday" and sang Jingle Bells. have we changed the name of Christmas to Holiday and I missed that? and I guess Jingle Bells is a good representation of Christmas, I mean Holiday. | ||
| Tim G. (Tim)
Junior Member Username: Tim Post Number: 220 Registered: 3-2002 |
no I have not served in the military, I do support several charities, lets see what else have I done for our country???????????? oh ya, last year alone I paid $6.5 million in federal income tax. | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 852 Registered: 6-2001 |
Rob: A lot of the argument here is that we can do this because other people are worse than we are. I think an absolute standard is appropriate. How many of us used the excuse that everyone else was doing it, and our moms asked us if they jumped off the bridge would we? My point is that we have an absolute standard: have we done right or haven't we? Just because we haven't killed someone recently, doesn't excuse us for thinking about killing hundreds or thousands in Iraq because we think their government is going to use their natural resource (oil) against our interests. That's murder in my book, straight up. Just because our president condones it, doewsn't mean its right. All of the flag wavers in the whole world won't change my mind. What's wrong is wrong, and everyone (almost everyone, maybe Bin Laden would disagree) agrees its wrong. As to those who say, America love it or leave, I'd say, put up or shut up: what have you done for your country lately: how many years in the service, how many charties do you support, how many public needs have you satisfied? I would be willing to bet that the majority of that vocal group would have to say none in response to all of those questions. Just my thoughts about this lunacy. Art | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1081 Registered: 8-2002 |
OH YA Bruce, You have Bunnys on you panties..... | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Intermediate Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 1307 Registered: 4-2002 |
top | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 263 Registered: 8-2002 |
ROFLMAO...! | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Intermediate Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 1304 Registered: 4-2002 |
des no jacket from lemus, but has womans panties with a tubi exhaust picture on the back, ask matt or paul newman for details.. bruce | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 259 Registered: 8-2002 |
Drats and double drats...! Foiled by a simple spelling error...! i'll get you, Lemus... and your little dog, too... | ||
| Matt Lemus (Mlemus)
Intermediate Member Username: Mlemus Post Number: 1077 Registered: 8-2002 |
DES FYI A lot is two words......No Jacket for you! | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 258 Registered: 8-2002 |
It got pretty nasty on this one... i'm gonna wait for some more •••• to come out, then i'll let it die down, then i'm gonna jump in with both feet with a whole lotta ••••...! i disagree with alot of what was said, though... alot of it... | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 3023 Registered: 12-2000 |
LOL Martin, well there has to be other places to stick.... ahhhh never mind.  | ||
| Pat Pasqualini (Enzo)
Junior Member Username: Enzo Post Number: 110 Registered: 2-2002 |
Martin that is sooooo true | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3485 Registered: 5-2001 |
First the Lord made man in the Garden of Eden. > > > > > > > >Then he said to himself, "There's something he's needin' ". > > > > > > > >After casting about for a suitable pearl, > > > > > > > >He kept messing around and created a girl. > > > > > > > >Two beautiful legs, so long and so slender, > > > > > > > >round, slim, and firm, and ever so tender. > > > > > > > >Two lovely hips to increase his desire, > > > > > > > >and rounded and firm to bring out the fire. > > > > > > > >Two lovely breasts, so full and so proud, > > > > > > > >commanding his eyes, as he whispers aloud. > > > > > > > >Two lovely arms, just aching to bless you, > > > > > > > >and two loving hands, to soothe and caress you. > > > > > > > >Soft, cascading hair hung down over her shoulder, > > > > > > > >And two dreamy eyes, just to make him grow bolder. > > > > > > > >'Twas made for a man, just to make his heart sing. > > > > > > > >Then he added a mouth. > > > > > > > >Ruined the whole f-ckin thing. | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3484 Registered: 5-2001 |
I feel I should say something here... Being an immigrant, Greencard holder and self proclaimed GOD practicing "Martinism" When I came to this country 9 years ago I made a choice. It was where I wanted to go because of what America represents and stands for. Yes, America and the Americans that live here and all their good and bad. It is not a country of only great things. There is many wrongs and many bad things. My choice was made because I travelled the word and have seen many countries and many political systems and grew up next to "the Wall" and cold war politics. Somewhat a fear. Americans never took •••• and stood for what they believed in. Yes, sometimes that may have been financially motivated buy still they took a stand in the world. Germany, France and all these other politicians and countries can not make a clear stand. They can not say we believe in this and will fight for it. Most of the rest of the world is a bunch of pussies that blow in the same direction the wind is blowing that morning. I hate that! So I came to the country that I can most likely live in. Welcomed with open arms. Just like everybody else. Thank you America for giving me the opportunity of living here. Citing the pledge of allegiance is someting that should come natural to those that live here. It was our choice. Those that feel they are better of in ••••• France, well move there. I can give you some great advise where to move to. I lived there. Everybody else should not have any problem with the pledge. The word GOD in the pledge and every where else in Government is there. Although I do not believe in him like Christians do I have no problem with the word. Change it when reciting the pledge to: GOOD. I still do not believe schools should have a morning prayer. That is someting that goes a little too far. Tim, I agree with most of the statement. Yes, it was off topic. Nice to see that somebody takes a stand. Right behind you my friend! | ||
| Tim G. (Tim)
Junior Member Username: Tim Post Number: 219 Registered: 3-2002 |
OK, here is a better story I found. Tess went to her bedroom and pulled a glass jelly jar from its hiding place in the closet. She poured all the change out on the floor and counted it carefully. Three times,even. The total had to be exactly perfect. No chance here for mistakes. Carefully placing the coins back in the jar and twisting on the cap, she slipped out the back door and made her way blocks to Rexall's Drug Store with the big red Indian Chief sign above the door. She waited patiently for the pharmacist to give her some attention but he was too busy at this moment. Tess twisted her feet to make a scuffing noise. Nothing. She cleared her throat with the most disgusting sound she could muster. No good. Finally she took a quarter from her jar and banged it on the glass counter. That did it! "And what do you want?" the pharmacist asked in an annoyed tone of voice. "I'm talking to my brother from Chicago whom I haven't seen in ages," he said without waiting for a reply to his question. "Well, I want to talk to you about my brother," Tess answered back in the same annoyed tone. "He's really, really sick... and I want to buy a miracle." "I beg your pardon?" said the pharmacist. "His name is Andrew and he has something bad growing inside his head and my Daddy says only a miracle can save him now. So how much does a miracle cost?" "We don't sell miracles here, little girl. I'm sorry but I can't help you," the pharmacist said, softening a little. "Listen, I have the money to pay for it. If it isn't enough, I will get the rest. Just tell me how much it costs." The pharmacist's brother was a well dressed man. He stooped down and asked the little girl, "What kind of a miracle does your brother need?" "I don't know," Tess replied with her eyes welling up. "I just know he's really sick and Mommy says he needs an operation. But my Daddy can't pay for it, so I want to use my money". "How much do you have?" asked the man from Chicago. "One dollar and eleven cents," Tess answered barely audibly. "And it's all the Money I have, but I can get some more if I need to. "Well, what a coincidence," smiled the man. "A dollar and eleven cents-the exact price of a miracle for little brothers." He took her money in one hand and with the other hand he grasped her mitten and said "Take me to where you live. I want to see your brother and meet your parents. Let's see if I have the kind of miracle you need." That well dressed man was Dr. Carlton Armstrong, a surgeon, specializing in neuro-surgery. The operation was completed without charge and it wasn't long until Andrew was home again and doing well. Mom and Dad were happily talking about the chain of events that had led them to this place. "That surgery," her Mom whispered. "was a real miracle. I wonder how much it would have cost?" Tess smiled. She knew exactly how much a miracle cost... one dollar and eleven cents ...... plus the faith of little child. A miracle is not the suspension of natural law, but the operation of a higher law...... (A TRUE STORY) | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 3048 Registered: 12-2000 |
Thanks Paul, I needed that too! I hate to think people on here kissing my butt being nice. I hate to admit William's post was good, because it was mostly rebutting me (I'm not a lawyer), but I'll admit it. I supported 80% of the email. Maybe what I tried to say long hand not well that I can say short hand is that things aren't going to get better if we're Christian Isolationists. | ||
| Tim G. (Tim)
Junior Member Username: Tim Post Number: 226 Registered: 3-2002 |
nice post William. very good points. I didnt read very deep into the letter (that someone else wrote) that I posted. I just thought, ya, we need to think more about America and how lucky we are. and we should act more like America for America, for the masses not the few squeaky wheels in our country. | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Intermediate Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 1323 Registered: 4-2002 |
BYE PAUL C U LATER ON 2NITE | ||
| magoo (Magoo)
Advanced Member Username: Magoo Post Number: 3857 Registered: 2-2001 |
Bruce, I gotta tell ya that I think Rob had to make the choice. The thing got so personal and highly inflamatory that it really needed to be put into a off topic thread. At least he didn't completely eliminate it. There have been many in the past that should have been put there also because they really got away from the theme of the F.C. and they too got inflamatory and personal. He was trying to leave them alone in hopes they would go away soon but it seems they continue. This is how I see it and for the others I guess they have to speak for themselves. Regards | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 894 Registered: 12-2001 |
Sorry mark, maybe im 95% cars and Bruce, you are wrong - bye! LOL | ||
| bruce wellington (Bws88tr)
Intermediate Member Username: Bws88tr Post Number: 1321 Registered: 4-2002 |
THIS THREAD NEEDS PADDED WALLS,,,,WHAT THE F##CK IS GOING ON??? GEEZ, I DONT WANT TO TAKE SIDES HERE BECAUSE EVERYONE HAS A RIGHT TO SAY ANYTHING, TIM IS ALLOWED TO POST ANYTHING, HE DIDNT WRITE IT, GET OFF HIS FREAKIN BACK, I CAME TO ROBS WEB SITE BECAUSE OF THE CONTENT..FERRARIS AND "GENERAL DISCUSSIONS WITH INTELLIGENT PEOPLE" SO THERE HAVE BEEN A--HOLES HERE LATELY, SO WHAT..LETS DISCUSS WHATEVER WE WANT, AS LONG AS WE DONT HURT ANYONE...AM I WRONG?? TELL ME, AND I WONT POST AGAIN.....LETS ALSO LEAVE RELIGION OUT OF IT, AND LEAVE THAT IN TEMPLES AND CHURCHES.... | ||
| Mark Eberhardt (Me_k)
Junior Member Username: Me_k Post Number: 229 Registered: 5-2002 |
Paul, how dare you blasphamy like that. There is nothing beyond ferraris of interest. | ||
| wm hart (Whart)
Member Username: Whart Post Number: 649 Registered: 12-2001 |
OK, i don't know why Tim posted this to the ferrari general discussion, but let that slide.Here is the part i don't get.America has been the melting pot, and that's what makes it different from alot of other places in the world (just compare other civilized nations, like Japan or Sweden, and see how uniform the culture and religion is, even if they are tolerant of others).Places like Britain, which have had huge influxes of immigrant populations, have not assimilated them as well, either. But i don't think our current national problems, including the threat and actuality of terrorism, should be attributed to our intolerance or lack of acceptance. At every step of the way, even when "we" do something stupid, the issue finally gets hashed out in public, criticisms from all sides are heard, and more often than not, we continue, perhaps a little wiser and more sensible. (Witness, two quick examples: Trent Lott's remarks, and our unwilling to punish all Muslims here for the acts of a few, say compared to what we did to the American Japanese during WWII, by interring them in camps). Not saying we are the fairest or most wonderful all the time, but the system does allow for alot of voices to be heard, sometimes to the point of almost paralyzing us into inaction. (Clinton seemed to be unwilling to do anything that might jeopardize his poll standings, but that's another story). For the most part, the people i meet everyday are all in the same boat. I can hear a dozen different languages in one block in Manhattan, and there is still some level of common understanding, a knowing smile, or just the nod of the head to signify acknowledgement. I am not going to demand that they speak english but they are at a disadvantage if they only speak their native tongue here in the States, just as i might be, trying to convince a French waiter in Paris to treat me nicely if i had not a word of French. But all that is small stuff. The import of Tim's posting and the flip side, Rob's response, seems to be a question of intolerance, religious, political or otherwise. Tim's posting seems to suggest that we Americans are pretty tolerant, but still suffer constant complaints about our rigid, narrow minded world view, and, like the Vietnam era slogan "America- Love it or Leave it," the answer is to stop bitching and respect what this country has done. On the flip side, Rob, you say all the things we believe in are a function of ingrained nationalism or religious belief, and that we must be more accepting of others. Here's where i come out: Don't remember the last time we, as a country, killed a bunch of people because we didn't like their country or religion. Don't remember the last time we, as a country, said, "don't come to the US because you are an Arab, Jew, Muslim, Whirling Dervish..." or whatever. Don't know that we, as a people, generally hate people just on the basis of religion or upbringing (oh, yeah, there are exceptions, but they seem to be directed just as much at our own people, in the form of racism, bigotry, etc). Somehow, with all our enlightened,deodorized, and group therapized views, we are not "understood" in a bunch of countries where, just being an American is good enough to make us targets for murder. And, you know what, I don't think that what any of us says or does is really going to change their minds.(Oh, yeah, if we start bombing, they'll hate us more). I for one feel no need to have a greater understanding of North Korea, or of Palestinians, Saudis or fundamentalist Muslims. All i care about is that we don't paralyze ourselves in the process of sorting out our collective guilt,such that we don't have the wherewithal to eliminate anybody who threatens our territorial security. Cause otherwise, we should all be converting to Islam ,just like Osama said, if we truly mean to learn the message of our "enemies."(Oh, yeah, and one small qualification: Americans did manage to annihilate the original natives here, and i guess that was done in the name of religion, etc. Also, lynchings, et al of american blacks, up until not so long ago. But, other than that, we're pretty good, yeah?) | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 893 Registered: 12-2001 |
I think this should be called the theraputic thread section. Go yell at someone and feel better. | ||
| Paul Newman (Newman)
Member Username: Newman Post Number: 892 Registered: 12-2001 |
Rob, the reason why people talk about more than just ferrari here is because our interests arent limited to a f*ckin car. If thats all you like then you need a life yourself! There I flamed you. It felt good actually, thanks. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 3043 Registered: 12-2000 |
Yes, I am very proud to be an American and would fight for the country in a gun shot. I also think we have it more right than most countries, if not all, but no one has it perfect yet. Come on, I put this in the flames topic, I thought it would be better than this. No one will hurt my feelings. Roast me! | ||
| Joseph (Mojo)
Junior Member Username: Mojo Post Number: 183 Registered: 9-2002 |
Don't forget this is the WORLD WIDE WEB, not the american wide web. Yes im american, but this is world wide so im sure the whole rest of the world does not want to hear our self rightous religous crap. | ||
| Tim G. (Tim)
Junior Member Username: Tim Post Number: 225 Registered: 3-2002 |
I like that one Rob | ||
| Tim G. (Tim)
Junior Member Username: Tim Post Number: 224 Registered: 3-2002 |
thanks Greg. I'm not trying to start anything either. I didnt pay much attention to the religious part of the letter this guy wrote I paid more attention to the fact that not much of America is America anymore. it seems we are becoming bland because we have to accomodate everyone from all over the world. they would not accomodate Americans like that. Like the man says, "if you dont like America, then leave" illegal imigrants get social security at any age if they just go apply for it. they get free medical service, and on and on. Change is good but for the right reasons not just for the sake of change. if your not proud to be an American then you should leave the country. do Americans do everything right? of course not. but we are America. love it or leave it. our family does not do everything right but we still love them and we dont try to change everyting about them. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 3042 Registered: 12-2000 |
I don't believe in being PC... I should be able to call my black friends "nigga" or my white friends "cracka", how about why can there be all female schools and clubs - but a private club like Augusta can't choose it's membership, when's the last time you saw a nationally accepted TV station called WET or a magazine called "Pale". Being overly PC is just as bad as being the opposite. Although usually overly PC people are just over thinking the matter and the opposite are just plain dumb or unexposed. | ||
| Greg Rodgers (Joechristmas)
Member Username: Joechristmas Post Number: 551 Registered: 3-2001 |
I agree with your post Tim G. I too am glad that this was written. When these ideas are spoken many go nuts and call you a racist, etc. Everything is so PC now it bothers me. IMHO the standard of achievement is lower now than before. Anyway, I am not trying to start an argument. | ||
| Tim G. (Tim)
Junior Member Username: Tim Post Number: 223 Registered: 3-2002 |
several things you dont get. First I didnt write it. 2nd so I posted in the wrong area, sorry, excuse the F%$k out of me, I'm glas I did though because it gave many people the opportunity to post, something worth while, and say it was in the wrong section. 3rd, I think the underlying message is that America is America. and as Americans we need to stop bending over backwards for aliens, illegal or not. as the man the wrote it said, "we speak english here. we should not spend tax dollars to teach in spanish in school, nor should we spend tax dollars to print things in spanish because they cant read english. what about all the other people that cant read english? its not fair to them as well. What he said is not so much about religion as it is about America. we have become a country of pleasing the few. and politically correct this and that. you cant even say Merry Christmas anymore whithout someone getting offended. but if you say Happy Chanukah or Happy Kwanza then nobody gets offended. why? because thats politically corrrect. we cant say the pledge of Allegiance without offending someone. its pathetic. people comming to this country are trying, and succeeding, to change it. yes change is OK but not just to change something and certainly not when it pleases so few and goes against so many, but if you say something about it then you are racist, incensitive, etc. etc. no Rob its not about religion. its about America. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 3040 Registered: 12-2000 |
Ok, I'll start with my post last time we went through this a year ago... Most of the founding fathers of the USA were Unitarian/Universalists. Load a crap that this country was founded on Christian beliefs. I of course don't have any problems with Christianity for others, but I have a problem with any application of religion that bullies, scares, and intimidates. Not only is it common with fundamentalist Christians, but also fundamentalist Muslims. BTW, my dad had a doctorate in theology and was a Presbyterian minister. It wasn't like I was never exposed to Jesus, I never missed a Sunday or other church function for more than a decade of my life. Maybe I'm so full of Jesus now, that I add more value to my spirituality from other sources. Who knows, I love Jesus, I think he was one of the greatest people that ever lived, but I can't stand some of the people representing his name. Here's a list of several Unitarian Universalists in early politics... Abigail Adams John Adams John Quincy Adams Ethan Allen Benjamin Franklin Thomas Jefferson Thomas Paine Paul Revere William Howard Taft Daniel Webster For the rest of it all I can ask is why everyone resists change so much? Do we like how many millions of Americans have died at war? Do we like how many thousands of Americans have died from terrorism the past few years? Why do we want to leave things the same when history is nothing but conflict and war? How hard is it to understand that human beings are human beings? We're born, we're raised, and we die on this earth. That's common for everyone. Is our genetic make up that different from person to person? It's not so damn hard... If we're all the same at the core, then everything we fight and die over is a result of humanized differences. Religion and politics are what we've been dying over and they're all learned, not intrinsic. Most of us were born and raised in the United States. Our environment is mostly Christian, so what are the majority of us? Now what would happen if you were born in China, or India, or Iraq? If you were born and grew up in a non-Christian environment, do you think you would of still been a Christian? It's an international world we live in and any lack of acceptance is going to continue our dying and suffering over misguided learned behaviors. America is not the only country that needs this lesson, everyone does. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 332 Registered: 8-2002 |
:::Diablo, Diablo, Diablo, Diablo, Diablo, Diablo, Diablo, Diablo::: ...um... oops... wrong thread... | ||
| Mr. Doody (Doody)
Member Username: Doody Post Number: 650 Registered: 11-2001 |
thank you rob. i don't have a problem with people discussing non-f-car things on fchat (though i don't have to pay for the bandwidth, so others might disagree) as long as it's done in the appropriate place. perhaps relevant to discuss. definitely not relevant in "General Ferrari Discussion". doody | ||
| arthur chambers (Art355)
Member Username: Art355 Post Number: 858 Registered: 6-2001 |
Tim: I read your post and believe that there are some inaccuracies contained in it. A good many of the founding fathers were "deists". My understanding is that was a code word for athesist in the 1700s. Examples of those who were are: John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine. I had the opportunity to serve in this countries military in the 60s and 70s. My generation was lied to about Viet Nam (Tomkin Gulf Resolution was based upon government lies), and we have a history of that sort of behavior: our government has a need for certain action, and it makes up facts to get John Q. Citizen into line. While I stand behind those in the military, I think that those who wear their flag on their sleeve, who've never served their country is a bit much. Remember the Who's song: "Don't get fooled again?" Well its happening again, and very few people are speaking out. Too bad, nothing good will come of this, in my humble opinion. Just my thoughts on this issue. Art | ||
| Dan (Bobafett)
Junior Member Username: Bobafett Post Number: 144 Registered: 9-2002 |
May I point you to www.offtopic.net --Dan PS: Good show, Rob. | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 3039 Registered: 12-2000 |
Tim, get this crap out of General Ferrari Discussion. You know better than that. I'm moving this to the new "Threads of Shame and Flame" because it's going to get ugly and I'll be the first to post once it's there. Why does everyone feel like they have to talk about anything and everything on FerrariChat.com. Get a frickin life, there's online communities for about anything you want. Talk Ferraris on FerrariChat.com, take everything else elsewhere. | ||
| DES (Sickspeed)
Member Username: Sickspeed Post Number: 327 Registered: 8-2002 |
i disagree with this, so, with a grunt and a puss on my face, i'll be the one to say that this should go in the Off Topic section... (Sorry, Tim, i'm just too busy right now to retort with something intelligent; take no offense.) | ||
| Tim G. (Tim)
Junior Member Username: Tim Post Number: 220 Registered: 3-2002 |
SOMEONE FINALLY SAID IT. I think everyone on this planet needs to read this. This was sent by a 78 yr old former nun. the thoughts are pure and we all understand the point.... GOD BLESS AMERICA!!! There are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some native Americans, need to understand. First of all, it is not our responsibility to continually try not to offend you in any way. This idea of America being a multi cultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language, and our own lifestyle. This culture, called the "American Way" has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom. Our forefathers fought, bled, and died at places such as Bunker Hill, Antietam, San Juan, Iwo Jima, Normandy, Korea, Vietnam... We speak English, not Spanish, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society - learn our language!" In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some off-the-wall, Christian, Right Wing, political slogan - it is our national motto. It is engraved in stone in the House of Representatives in our Capitol and it is printed on our currency. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation and this is clearly documented throughout our history. If it is appropriate for our motto to be inscribed in the halls of our highest level of Government, then it is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. God is in our pledge, our National Anthem, nearly every patriotic song, and in our founding documents. We honor His birth, death, and resurrection as holidays, and we turn to Him in prayer in times of crisis. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture and we are proud to have Him. We are proud of our heritage and those who have so honorably defended our freedoms. We celebrate Independence Day, Memorial Day, Veterans Day, and Flag Day. We have parades, picnics, and barbecues where we proudly wave our flag. As an American, I have the right to wave my flag, sing my national anthem, quote my national motto, and cite my pledge whenever and wherever I choose. If the Stars and Stripes offend you, or you don't like Uncle Sam, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. The American culture is our way of life, our heritage, and we are proud of it. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. Like it or not, this is our country, our land, and our lifestyle. Our First Amendment gives every citizen the right to express his opinion about our government, culture, or society, and we will allow you every opportunity to do so. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great American freedom THE RIGHT TO LEAVE! Another thing: To those who do complain about the usage of words like 'God' and 'American' and speaking the language of our great nation, TRY GOING TO ANOTHER COUNTRY AND SPEAK AGAINST WHAT YOU DON'T LIKE. YOU WILL MORE THAN LIKELY END UP JAILED OR EVEN KILLED. In America, you take your right to complain for granted. The more patriotism that is removed from where our children are taught, the less our children will learn about what it is to be an American and our nation's spirit will slowly be taken away. If you agree, pass this onto other Americans!! It is time to take a stand!! God Bless America and our Military and Veterans!!! |