| Author | Message | ||
| Martin - Cavallino Motors (Miami348ts)
Advanced Member Username: Miami348ts Post Number: 3542 Registered: 5-2001 |
Solly, a word of advise: The 348 and 355 Challenge is likely not your fit. You are very tall. Always gets me a smile thinking about you last year in the little Dino.  The 360 is a great race car. Be aware that neither the 360CH nor the late 355CH are road allowed cars. You buy them strictly for track use. Since I do not know how deep you want to get into this hobby it is hard to give correct advise. For trying out I would rather get a road car, put slicks on it some minor mods and drive that a season. If you like it then get a 360CH. Also, since you can not drive the car on the roads anyhow, you might as well get one from Europe for LESS!!!!!! Don't go to Shelton and buy one of their beat up cars for a Gazillion Dollars. Martin See you at Cavallino this year? Are you in the concourse? | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 330 Registered: 8-2001 |
Luigi, Well if you compare a 360 C to any prototype car such as the Spice-Ferrari you are indeed correct. That car would be quite difficult to drive at the limit because few people will have ever been at that high a limit and also because it is a ground efffects car with very high downforce something most of us have not experienced. I have tested a Formula Continental and a Barber Formula Dodge Pro car and they were somewhat frigthening at the limit and not prone to errors that most of us get away with in our street and moderately modified race cars. Lifting off in a ground effects car at high speed can quicky destabilize the car. As for the F1 system it might be a good learning tool for beginners but I feel it has no place in the Challenge series. F1 is ok because of it's technology angle and let's face it there are no inferior drivers at that level who don't know how to heel n' toe. But for club racing it even's the gap between the really fast people and the merely fast people especially in the rain. Solly, The 911's I am talking about are the full blown factory 996's that you see in the ALSM series or Grand AM or Porsche Super Cup. These cars are vastly superior to the Challenge cars and much more reliable. The fastest 996 GT3RS's lapped the Glen nearly 10 seconds faster than the fastest 360C's in the Challenge series. You would have to go with a 360 GT to match those times. I would be careful about tracking a prototype car without many track hours or race hours. If you do go that route get a professional instructor/racer who has raced them and start out slow. Three years ago a guy I used to see at track events with a Corvette (slightly modified street car) got himself killed in Canada trying out one of the early 90's Spice GTP cars (might have been Tommy Kendal's). He had little or no race experience and stepped from a 300 hp street car into a 700 hp race car. Regards, Jon | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
Member Username: Solly Post Number: 432 Registered: 6-2001 |
My 360 is a 6 speed-I tried the F1 shifter, but I'm a purist at heart. Definitely cannot fit in the 355, and I just tried out the f-40 and it has no room at all for, very uncomfortable. This leaves the 360 Challenge, or the Spice. The Challenge has a lot of support behind it in terms of parts and labor, the Spice is much more a one-off. Yes it was raced by Dyson at Moroso, and the one I'm looking at was raced and owned by Marshall Field, who told me it can get quite expensive (engine "freshen-ups" at 10 hours, for $4-5,000, a rebuild every so often at $10-15,000, etc.)It is a 328 engine, although highly modified. Looks like I'm steering towards a 360C. Had a few 911's but they just don't do it for me. | ||
| Luigi Gatti (Luigi)
Junior Member Username: Luigi Post Number: 69 Registered: 10-2001 |
Jon, when I said in my post that the 360 Challenge is a more accessible car I was comparing it to the Spice-Ferrary, of which Solly had just posted a pic, not to the 355 Challenge which I haven't been lucky enough to test yet and therefore haven't mentioned in my post. My experience with the 360C as I said comes from a day of testing I did at Monza racetrack (aprox 25 laps).Being a person that has knowledge regarding racing and race cars you obviously understand that it's not enough time to be on the limit with the car everywhere, but it's enough to get to know the car a bit and to take it to the limit in a few areas.Especially if you know the track already very well as this is the case. Regarding the F1 system: I'm not a big fan of the system,that's why my Modena is a 6 sp , but I know that many beginners make big mistakes and get frustrated when starting to go to the track because they get tangled with the gearchange, and end up concentrating more on heel and toeing and getting the correct gear in more than on the proper lines and feeling how the car is behaving in their hands.In this respect, and this one only, I believe the F1 tranny is an advantage. Regards Luigi | ||
| Rob Schermerhorn (Rexrcr)
Junior Member Username: Rexrcr Post Number: 79 Registered: 11-2002 |
Solly, I've had 6'0", 250 drivers in 360 Challenge, no problem. I think you must sit in one, 6' 4" you'd probably max it out against the roof. Largest driver I've had in a Ferrari is 6' 2", 210 lb. in 348 and 355 Challenge, and 6" 2", 180 lb. in F40. You can probably fit in a 355 with the seat properly adjusted. You won't notice your helmet rubbing the roof or roll bar when you're at speed with other things to think about. A proper race seat in a 550 will give you the most headroom in an F car. But then you're on your own for race mods (or must hook-up with a competent race prep shop). Or contract with Prodrive (per this weeks Autoweek). The Spice will definitely be fun, not for beginners, though you can learn. If you respect the capabilities of the car, run the car through a professional race prep shop, and hire a driver coach who's competed in this type of chassis, you can quite competently pilot this missile at any track. In fact, I think I saw this very car at Moroso in '95 or '96? 348 (built by Marcovicci and Wentz) engine not 328, no? Run by Dyson? And I second everything Jon states regarding the 360 Challenge. | ||
| Ric Rainbolt (Ricrain)
Member Username: Ricrain Post Number: 373 Registered: 2-2002 |
I'm 5'11" and 230 and I had a hell of a time getting in the driver's seat of an F40. I managed to make 8 laps or so, but I was starting to really hurt. I had a little more room and managed to get comfortable in a 348ch and also when I drove a 355ch. I "test fit" (just sitting) in the 360ch, and it had even more room. | ||
| Jon P. Kofod (95f355c)
Member Username: 95f355c Post Number: 329 Registered: 8-2001 |
Solly, I think the 355 C is a bit too small for you at over 6 feet. I had a friend try out my 355 C. He is 6'3 and couldn't find a comfortable seating postion even after we unbolted the OMP seat and moved it back as far as it went and as low as it went. He still had no head clearance and his knee caps touched the steering wheel. I think the 360 C has more room. I also think that you would definetally fit better in a 911 GT3RS becasue of the more upright position. Luigi, Either you are an extremely competant driver/racer or you weren't near the 360 C's limit. The 360 C is not an easy car to drive on the limit as was seen at the first 360 Challenge race at Homestead a few years back when a total of 12 cars were crashed during practice and qualifying. Most of the Challenge drivers commented on the twitchiness at the limit of the 360 C and the tendancy of the car to understeer on entry and then snap into oversteer on exit. Most had to change their driving style a bit from the 355C which had lower limits and a much more progressive breakaway at the limit. As anyone on this board who has gone from a 355 C to a 360 C can tell you the 360 C has a much higher limit and a much smaller gap between on and over the limit. As for the F1 system I hardly agree that it teaches good race car technique or teaches race car dynamics faster. It may do a better job of shifting and be an advantage in the rain, but put some of those 360 C drivers in a regular manual car in the rain and most of them would end up in the wall. The F1 system is a "cheating" mechanism that rewards inferior drivers. On a road car it's a neat thing on a race car (bar F1) it's yet another thing that takes away from driver skill. Just my opinion, many others would most likely disagree. Regards, Jon P. Kofod 1995 F355 Challenge #23 | ||
| Luigi Gatti (Luigi)
Junior Member Username: Luigi Post Number: 66 Registered: 10-2001 |
The Spice-Ferrari looks outrageous, but since I believe this would be your first race car I would go for something easyer to make progress with. I've tested a 360 Challenge for one day both in rain and dry, and I found it very accessible and easy to drive for a car with such astonishing performance. The F1 system would also make you concentrate more on the driving, thus learning the dynamics of a racecar faster. | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
Member Username: Solly Post Number: 430 Registered: 6-2001 |
Sorry, I always screw up the formatting  | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
Member Username: Solly Post Number: 429 Registered: 6-2001 |
A Spice-Ferrari: /image{Spice-Ferrari} What do you think? | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
Member Username: Kennyh Post Number: 500 Registered: 8-2001 |
Steve, any updates? | ||
| rocco solmito (Rock)
New member Username: Rock Post Number: 17 Registered: 2-2001 |
How about a 2500lb 308 gtb with 300hp and dry sump oiling? They seem to perform very well at mosport. | ||
| Kenny Herman (Kennyh)
Member Username: Kennyh Post Number: 495 Registered: 8-2001 |
Steve, I know you had a 996 Carrera, why not get a GT3 Cup Car as a starter car- if you exchange paint or something of that nature, the repair bills aren't too outrageous. You can run it at Ferrari track days as long as you are still in the club... Once you feel comfortable with racing, get the 420 Challenge... | ||
| Rikky Alessi (Ralessi)
New member Username: Ralessi Post Number: 42 Registered: 5-2002 |
Just curious about what an IMSA Spice-Ferrari is... do you have any pics? Also what is the price? | ||
| Rob Lay (Rob328gts)
Board Administrator Username: Rob328gts Post Number: 3114 Registered: 12-2000 |
Another question is will you have track support or do everything yourself. Having any of the cars on your list I would want some help, no matter how technical you are. Some things just require more hands around. | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
Member Username: Solly Post Number: 428 Registered: 6-2001 |
I've looked at the other series, but want to stay with F-cars. Dave- I canot fit comfortably in the 550, I looked at one before I decided on the 360. Maybe with racing seats there will be a little more room, but the 360 is much more comfortable and a better track car. You are right about the helmet, my 360 is a spider and I always have to scrunch down to keep the helmet below the roll bars. I don't know if I would fit in a 360 Challenge hardtop. The Spice-Ferrari is an open top car with tall roll bar, that's why I'm looking at it. Budget is up to 200k. My other thought is to make the Dino a track car, but this will require non-stock mods and it won't be eligible for concourse any more, so no more pretty trophies. I know a few people tracking Dinos, but they need more hp to be competitive, hence major engine and chassis changes. Anyone using a Dino for track? The F-40 would be great, but it's a 100k over budget | ||
| Brian Kennedy (Kennedy)
Junior Member Username: Kennedy Post Number: 163 Registered: 3-2002 |
Isn't the 360 Challenge about the ultimate? Would be for me. Beyond that, I'd suggest something that gets you into a good head-to-head series (where "good" means a good number of strong drivers in your area). Spec Miata, Spec Mazda, an open wheel class, or karts. I've been looking at the latter recently... the Rotax Max Challenge looks really cool ( http://www.rmaxchallenge.com/ ). | ||
| Dave (Maranelloman)
Member Username: Maranelloman Post Number: 649 Registered: 1-2002 |
Solly, not sure your budget...but I suggest either a 360 Challenge, or get an older 550 & modify it for track use. I, too, am 6' 4", and either will fit your frame just fine...although remember that, with a helmet on, you & I are now about 6' 6", and either will require some seat fiddling... | ||
| Steven J. Solomon (Solly)
Member Username: Solly Post Number: 427 Registered: 6-2001 |
I am thinking of getting a car for track use only. I am considering the following cars, please give me your opinions. I have tracked the 360 at various events for 2 years without killing anyone, but I'm not Matt K. or Bill H. Let me know if any of these is unsuitable for a weekend warrior. Also, I'm 6'4" 240 lbs. If you know I won't fit, tell me. 1) 360 Challenge 2) 355 Challenge (although I couldn't fit into Matt's 355) 3) IMSA Spice-Ferrari (Spice chassis, lightweight, 505bhp Ferrari 328 engine) 4) Some type of modified 308/328 5) F-40 (but this is a bit over budget) 6) Any other suggestions Let me know your thoughts. Thanks. See any of you at Cavallino? |